Author Topic: mitre saw help! (Read 5532 times)

hulkster · « **on:** February 22, 2004, 07:30:59 pm »

okay, one of my moms friends had a mitre saw and let me borrow it. ive never used one before and am trying to figure out something. look at the pic there, and tell me how to make the blade go up higher so i can cut that board at an angle. its for the sides of my cp box which have to be at an angle. the board is 5" tall, and i cant figure out how to get the blade up higher so i can make the cut.

dmsuchy · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2004, 07:49:02 pm »

Thats a small saw, the blade won't go higher and there is no adjustment. I can't see well, but is it a compound miter saw? If so you could adjust the angle of the axis of the saw to 45 degrees and cut the board easily. If it's a standard "chop block" saw then you won't be able to make your miters on it. Try your cicular saw at a 45 degree adjustment and cut your miters that way.

patrickl · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2004, 07:49:09 pm »

Your supposed to put the board flat on the table I guess. Doesn't that work?

Paul Olson · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2004, 07:51:29 pm »

You can't. Set the board on it's side and cut it that way. You may have to flip the board around and reverse the angle to finish the cut. I can't tell from the picture if that saw will let you angle the blade, if not you may have to cut it by hand. Hope that made sense.

Paul

Jakobud · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2004, 08:22:15 pm »

You are using the wrong kind of tool to make that kind of cut. You need a table saw.

hulkster · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2004, 09:11:47 pm »

yeah, its got this dial at the back of the thing....my moms friend said that i could tilt the blade at a certain angle and cut it at an angle. i tried to move it, but i cant figure out how to change the angle.

DrewKaree · « **Reply #6 on:** February 22, 2004, 09:35:11 pm »

From the picture you've given, I THINK that's a Ryobi 8 inch saw. You need a 10 inch to saw it the way you want, otherwise you gotta figure out how to change the angle. Is there a dial on the back with markings, or is there a three-pronged handle/spinner thingy? Loosen it up (it may need to be loosened A LOT if it's never been used like that) and push the blade to move it.

If you can't get it to work, you can bring it over to my house, and I'll only make you help me build mine before we cut that one piece! LOL

eightbit · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2004, 09:38:10 pm »

That saw is to small to make that cut.

hulkster · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2004, 09:43:48 pm »

well i called my brother (who is a sales rep for porter cable) and he said that i could make the blade cut at an angle.....and here is the pic

FractalWalk · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2004, 09:53:50 pm »

That is a compound saw, so you can make the cut. It looks like there is a lever there (albeit a rusty one) that you can loosen to move the angle to what you want. Then lay the board flat to make your cut.

FractalWalk · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2004, 09:57:28 pm »

I forgot to mention, that you will have to restore the other (front) angle back to 0.

hulkster · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2004, 09:57:47 pm »

well i can turn that lever, but i dont know how to move the saw at an angle. im afraid to do too much to this thing for fear of messing it up. anyway, it looks like that i need to remove that pin, which i did, so the whole thing can tilt one way or the other. so i removed the pin, but the saw isnt budging, do i need to push or pull harder?

FractalWalk · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2004, 10:04:15 pm »

I'm not familiar with that saw, but my guess is that it is just stuck. Most mitre saws should move freely once the restraining pin or screws are loosend/removed. Try a liitle penetrating oil and apply a little leverage.

You should be able to freely set the angle on the back to whatever you want. Then set the front angle to 0 and lay the board flat.

hulkster · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2004, 10:12:28 pm »

okay, i just thought of this.....this isnt going to work. if i angle the blade, it will be uneven on the board itself. look at the pic. the first board (on the left) is what i want...thats looking at the end of the board. and the one on the right, isnt that what it will look like if the blade is angled?

FractalWalk · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2004, 10:26:40 pm »

I see. You want to bevel the long edge of the board. You're not going to be able to do that with the mitre because your board is longer than the blade diameter. You need a table saw or a circular saw.

The only way to even attempt this cut with a mitre saw is to lay the baord flat with the long axis perpendicular to the mitre fence. Then angle the blade in the back to whatever angle and set the front angle to 0. This will give you the proper cut but only up to the diameter of the blade. Then it might be possible to flip the board over and turn it around around and try to make a second cut that matches up to your first cut. This will only work if the length of the cut is less than twice the diameter of your saw blade and you are very (VERY) accurate in lining it up.

I wouldn't try it with a mitre.

FractalWalk · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2004, 10:34:36 pm »

Wait a minute. Now, that I look at your original picture again, I think you can do it. In your original picture, you are trying to cut the end of the board (crosscut) at a bevel.

If that is true then it is certainly do-able with what you got. You need to do 3 things:

1) Lay the board flat as opposed to standing on edge as in your picture.

2) Set the front angle, which appears in the picture to be 45 degrees to 0. This will make the blade perpendicular to the flat of the board and the saw fence.

3) Set the back angle to whatever you want (45?). This will allow you to make a beveled cut on the end of the board (short side) as you illustrated in your diagram.

hulkster · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2004, 11:05:11 pm »

hmmm....okay, i didnt know this kind of cut was possible with a circular saw. how do i do that? this miter saw i dont think is going to work, so the circular saw would be easier. i have an old circular saw, will that matter if i want to cut it at an angle?

FractalWalk · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2004, 11:18:46 pm »

Just to clarify, if you are attempting to cut the short end of your board, you should be able to do it with the mitre easily. However, if you are trying to cut the long edge of the board, then you probably can't because the blade is too small and you'll need a circular saw or table saw (ideal for this kind of cut).

If your circular saw can't be angled, then you can't do it, but most circular saws have blades that can be angled or rather the base of the saw (the part that rests on what you are cutting) can be swiveled. Look for a wing-nut or a thumb screw on the base of the saw. By loosening this, you can tilt the entire saw relative to he base up to 45 degrees. This mimics what you are trying to do with the mitre. There should be a little metal protractor built into the base to help you measure the angle.

Once angled, you'l need to run your saw in a staight line along the edge of your board. I suggest clamping (or screwing) another board with a straight edge to act as a fence for your cut.

hulkster · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2004, 09:38:40 am »

hmm, well ill have to wait till i get home tonight to see if this will work with my circular saw or miter saw. and i just read the side of the miter saw, and it is spelled "miter" so ive been wrong the whole time! just a side note

crashwg · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2004, 10:20:39 am »

This is the adjustment you will want to use if you decide to use your circular saw. Most circular saws have this adjustment along with depth of the blade and that's pretty much it, so all you have to do is look for a knob to loosen an it will probably be the one.

hulkster · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2004, 10:25:47 am »

um yeah, my circular saw is like from the 70's or something. it was my stepdads and its old. yours is all fancy compared to mine. how much was your saw?

FractalWalk · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2004, 10:37:03 am »

Quote from: hulkster081 on February 23, 2004, 09:38:40 am

i just read the side of the miter saw, and it is spelled "miter" so ive been wrong the whole time!

Either spelling is acceptable. "Mitre" is the British spelling and "Miter" is American version. "Mitre" is the way I see it most often, so I would say that you've been right all along.

hulkster · « **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2004, 10:43:54 am »

okay i was thinking some more...dangerous i know....and i need a new saw. however, i was looking at home depot.com and saw that the circular saws (the cheapest one) is only 50 bucks! thats pretty good, plus it comes with all the angles and stuff i need. however, i remember measuring the angles that my side boards need to be and remember that one is like 50 degrees. and i know that if i get a circular saw it will only cut at 45 degrees. would i be better off getting a cheap table saw instead? they have one at homedepot for 100 bucks. heres the link...is this too cheap a table saw? and will it cover my needs of a sharper angled cut? Link to Ryobi Table Saw

Edit by moderator: fixed URL

FractalWalk · « **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2004, 11:12:11 am »

To make a 50 degree cut, you could set the angle to 40 degrees and cut on the opposite side of the board.

However, I'm a big fan of the table saw for this kind of work. It's very precise and way easier than using a circular saw. I got a cheap one for $80 after rebate at Lowe's and it was well worth the money.

Bottom line: You can do what you want with the circular but the table saw makes life a whole lot easier. Sort of a time and precision vs money decision.

JustMichael · « **Reply #24 on:** February 23, 2004, 11:13:04 am »

Hulkster081, the links doesn't work here. What is the internet catalog # or even the name of the saw? Most table saws will easily go from 0 to 45 degrees. For cuts greater than this you might need a "tenoning jig". This is a device that fits into the the groove on a table saw and can slide forward and back and you clamp your piece of wood to the jig in a vertical position.

hulkster · « **Reply #25 on:** February 23, 2004, 11:14:38 am »

well that $100 table saw isnt a bad price, plus i cut things a lot easier, and i wouldnt have to use a saw guide or anything right? doesnt it allow me to kinda set up the wood on the table saw with the built in guide itself, and then just run it through? ive never really used one before, so im in the dark as far as the benefits of using it. help?

hulkster · « **Reply #26 on:** February 23, 2004, 11:24:34 am »

its the Ryobi 10in. table saw. its the only one that is $99.

FractalWalk · « **Reply #27 on:** February 23, 2004, 11:34:22 am »

Quote from: hulkster081 on February 23, 2004, 11:14:38 am

doesnt it allow me to kinda set up the wood on the table saw with the built in guide itself, and then just run it through

Yep. Way easier. You can tilt the blade to make your beveled cuts and it should also come with a mitre guide to make your mitre cuts.

One advantage a circular saw has over a table saw is that it isn't a fixed blade. So if you need to cut a large piece of wood (e.g. 4' x 8' MDF) then you can run along it easily with a circular saw but you can't really feed it through the table saw. Also a table saw is an open blade and is very dangerous.

The $100 saws are called bench saws and have cheaper motors, but for this hobby they do just fine. I use my table saw for everything except cutting my side panels. Try to get one with a stand. A standard workbench is too high (safety-wise) for cutting with a table saw. Ideally, you want the table to be around your waist level.

hulkster · « **Reply #28 on:** February 23, 2004, 11:46:29 am »

okay, im confused on your terminology....what are "miter cuts" are those the angled cuts i want? do you have a pic of what the top of a table saw looks like? i mean, i want to make sure there is a guide for me to run the wood through so it will cut on a straight line.

FractalWalk · « **Reply #29 on:** February 23, 2004, 12:35:20 pm »

Sorry for the confusion. I don't have a pic, pu maybe I can describe it in ASCII.

A table saw is just a flat surface (table) with a blade sticking up in the middle. It comes with an adjustable fence that you can position however far away from the blade you want. Looking at the table from the edge it would look like this:

|
----------------|---------||-------
|

^ ^
| |
| |
blade fence

From the top it looks like this:

|---------------------------||--------|
| || |
| || |
| | || |
| | || |
| | || |
| || |
| || |
|---------------------------||--------|
^ ^
| |
| |
blade fence

So if you want to cut a board 6 inches wide, then you move the fence 6 inches away, lock it down and just run the board over the table surface. The blade cuts in a fixed position.

If you want to make a bevel cut (which is what you have been describing) , you can swivel the blade so that it makes an angle with the table surface.

\
---------------- \---------||-------
\

^ ^
| |
| |
blade fence

Think of the front edge of the table as the x-axis, the depth of the table as the y-axis and a perpendicular to both (height) as the z-axis. This cut is angled relative to the z-axis. So when you run the board through instead of a perpendicular edge, you get a beveled edge. However both the x-axis and y-axis are still straight (look down on the board and its still a rectangle). Bevels can be anywhere from 0 to 45 degrees. If you want a 50 degree bevel then that is the same thing as a 40 degree bevel made on the board when it is flipped over.

Additionally, you can make mitre cuts. Both of the cuts described above have been straight cuts (relative to the x and y axis). A mitre cut is a cut that is angled relative to the boards x axis. Looking down on a table saw, a mitre cut might look like this:

|-----------------------------------|
| / / |
| / / |
| /| / |
| / | / |
| / | / |
| / / |
| / / |
|-----------------------------------|

The diagonal lines represent a 2 x4 laying flat and the 3 straight lines in the middle is the saw blade. Notice that this cut will not leave a straight end on the board like the other cuts. When you look down on it, it is no longer a rectangle. For this cut you don't use the fence, but rather a mitre guide that comes with the table saw.

hulkster · « **Reply #30 on:** February 23, 2004, 12:58:06 pm »

ah yes, i see now. thanks for the great descriptions!

what im wanting to do is take a few boards of 3/4" thick mdf, and miter cut the ends of them so they can connect to make a box without showing the ends of the boards. know what im saying? gives it a more professional look.

Rawker · « **Reply #31 on:** February 23, 2004, 01:08:57 pm »

just use a butt joint, you shouldn't need to use a mitre (canadian way of spelling it) anywhere on a cabinet unless the angle is less then 90 degrees. the thing about a mitre is that you'll need backup to screw to so using just a normal butt joint makes things easier and you can also hide your joint as opposed to bringing it to the forefront with a mitre.

hulkster · « **Reply #32 on:** February 23, 2004, 01:18:44 pm »

okay, well heres what my cp base will look like, and im going to put the side boards around it...so as you can see, i need two boards for the angles on the left and right.

http://www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Uploads/DSC00223.JPG heres the pic

Rawker · « **Reply #33 on:** February 23, 2004, 01:24:59 pm »

yup you do, you'll need mitre's then. but if those are the only ones i'd just take the pieces to a home depot or where you bought the wood from and get then to cut it as opposed to purchasing a $50 or $100 saw for 4 cuts.

but if you do purchase a saw, go with the skill saw (circular saw).

hulkster · « **Reply #34 on:** February 23, 2004, 01:28:26 pm »

home depot will make those cuts for me?!?! i mean, i want them cut at a certain angle and stuff...but they will do that for me?

crashwg · « **Reply #35 on:** February 23, 2004, 04:13:02 pm »

I used to work at homedepot, and we were only suppose to cut 90

hulkster · « **Reply #36 on:** February 23, 2004, 04:18:07 pm »

yeah thats what i was thinking. i mean, i have allow for extra length for the boards on the angled parts of the cp. so i will probably have to screw up to make sure im doing it right! my mom sometimes feels sorry for me when i dont have the tools to build something like this, so she might get it for me

she bought me a black and decker work bench thingy, for this project cuz she felt bad that i didnt have anything to put down the mdf on to cut it! so ill try to work my magic tonight and post the results tomorrow to see if shes down with buying me a table saw....or at least going half way

question....what has two thumbs and is spoiled really bad???

answer....this guy right here

Rawker · « **Reply #37 on:** February 23, 2004, 06:08:08 pm »

if you can't figure out the angles then i'd buy a skill saw with adjustable base before a table saw and not a cordless one unless it's like 24 volt. as neat as they are they have no power and something as simple as cutting a 2 x 4 can be done faster manually. a skill saw, strait edge and 2 clamps can do everything a compound mitre saw can do and 98% of the things a table saw can do and they are about 1/4 the price. a skill saw is also alot less space consuming like a table saw and hey you can take a skill saw out on the drive way and work outside in the summer.


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