Searching for the most efficient control panel

[mvaughn]

I'm trying to come up with a control panel design that allows for 4 players, yet conserves on button usage.  I want to support as many arcade games as possible (within reason) with one control panel.

It seems that 2 player games usually require more buttons than 4 player games.  Am I correct?

I definitly want to support neo-geo games and street fighter games.  Which leads me to using a 7 button layout for players 1 and 2.  Am I still on the right track?

I'll include a track ball and spinner  in the center of the control panel along with 2 mouse buttons.

I'm not sure how many buttons I should use for players 3 and 4.  I do, however, want to minimize the number of buttons used but still make it the button layouts as close a possible to as many arcade games as possible.  How many buttons will that be and what pattern should they be in?

One last question, what other function buttons should I include besided the obvious player and coin buttons?

If anyone can provide a link to a picture or page that explains a great layout I would be very appreciative.

[mahuti]

It seems that 2 player games usually require more buttons than 4 player games.  Am I correct?


Yes. I think someone posted that no 4 player games  have more than 3 buttons per player (except for some obscure mahjong game) If any 4 players have more than 3, it would be news to me.


I definitly want to support neo-geo games and street fighter games.  Which leads me to using a 7 button layout for players 1 and 2.  Am I still on the right track?


Right.

I'll include a track ball and spinner  in the center of the control panel along with 2 mouse buttons.

Why do that? Just use buttons from one of your other controls. You said you wanted to conserve button usage... so conserve!


I'm not sure how many buttons I should use for players 3 and 4.  I do, however, want to minimize the number of buttons used but still make it the button layouts as close a possible to as many arcade games as possible.  How many buttons will that be and what pattern should they be in?

Like I said, no more than 4 for the 2 extra players. Any configuration will be fine. I would make the controls comfortable, rather than accurate to one game. Strait across would be my guess. Some use a diamond pattern. Either way, you have to make sacrifices. MANY games used special patterns, so really it comes down to ergonomics, user interface, and aesthetics.


One last question, what other function buttons should I include besided the obvious player and coin buttons?

Player one, two, three, and four. Get a coin door with four coin inputs rather than coin buttons. You can always set the individual games on free play in the 'tab' menu. If you are going for some kind of arcade experience don't use 'coin input' buttons. Half the fun is pumping in quarters before the countdown is up. Don't bother putting in admin buttons, you'll have so many buttons on your cabinet already, it would be a waste to add more. Just use an ipac or keywiz with some type of shift function. You mentioned saving buttons, so keep the number to a minimum.

As far as great layouts, take a look at the examples page here on the site, or do a search in the message board. We've had lots of discussions about admin buttons, number of buttons, players, etc.

[maraxle]

Player one, two, three, and four. Get a coin door with four coin inputs rather than coin buttons. You can always set the individual games on free play in the 'tab' menu. If you are going for some kind of arcade experience don't use 'coin input' buttons. Half the fun is pumping in quarters before the countdown is up. Don't bother putting in admin buttons, you'll have so many buttons on your cabinet already, it would be a waste to add more. Just use an ipac or keywiz with some type of shift function. You mentioned saving buttons, so keep the number to a minimum.

I found that a good compromise between functional coin slots and coin input buttons is making the coin reject buttons give credits.  The functional coin slots are still there for realism, but you can just push in the coin reject and have that act as a coin button.

[Witchboard]

It seems that 2 player games usually require more buttons than 4 player games.  Am I correct?


Yes. I think someone posted that no 4 player games  have more than 3 buttons per player (except for some obscure mahjong game) If any 4 players have more than 3, it would be news to me.

The two D&D games use 4 buttons per player.  It's the main reason why I setup my 4 player panel to use 4 buttons on players 3 & 4.  This would probably be the 4 player game that gets played at my house the most.

[telengard]

I'm trying to come up with a control panel design that allows for 4 players, yet conserves on button usage.  I want to support as many arcade games as possible (within reason) with one control panel.

It seems that 2 player games usually require more buttons than 4 player games.  Am I correct?

I definitly want to support neo-geo games and street fighter games.  Which leads me to using a 7 button layout for players 1 and 2.  Am I still on the right track?

I'll include a track ball and spinner  in the center of the control panel along with 2 mouse buttons.

I'm not sure how many buttons I should use for players 3 and 4.  I do, however, want to minimize the number of buttons used but still make it the button layouts as close a possible to as many arcade games as possible.  How many buttons will that be and what pattern should they be in?

One last question, what other function buttons should I include besided the obvious player and coin buttons?

If anyone can provide a link to a picture or page that explains a great layout I would be very appreciative.

I wanted similar functionality ( support as many games as possible ) and ended up going the modular approach after first trying the swappable panels.  I'm very happy with what I ended up with.  My link is below...

[Sephroth57]

id really suggest going swappable panels, you could have full 2 P controls, including trackball and spinner one one, and your full 4p 4 buttons each layout on the other.  Its really just impossible to fit the number of buttons joys and special controls on one panel, without making the 3&4 p angles way too far from the middle of the cab or looking too angled on the screen. unless you have some type of podium design with the screen on a different platform and significantly bigger... but thats expensive.

[paigeoliver]

I'm trying to come up with a control panel design that allows for 4 players, yet conserves on button usage.  I want to support as many arcade games as possible (within reason) with one control panel.

Well, you have mutually exclusive goals. Do you want to support as many games as possible, or do you want to support 4-player games.

I don't actually know how many 4-player joystick games there are, but I would REALLY be suprised if there were more than 30 (mame has over 2000 unique titles).

Compare the 30 4-player games to the
200+ 4-way games.
40+ Spinner games
100+ trackball games
100+ analog joystick games
30-40 lightgun games
20 or so positional gun games.
100+ 360 wheel games
30+ 270 wheel games.

Obviously controls like steering wheels and positional guns do not easily integrate into most control panels, so I will ignore those for now.

But that does leave analog joy games and 4-way games, both of which certainly outnumber 4-player games.

So if you are trying to support the most games possible in you given control panel space, you might want to drop players 3 and 4, and put 4-way and analog joystick spots in those positions instead.

And now of course I will repeat my much repeated question.

Where was this magic arcade that actually managed to get 4 people on one machine at the same time often enough that you guys actually have enough memories of playing 4-player to want the same experience at home (been doing the arcade my entire life, and I have never seen a 4-player machine fully occupied, most I have even seen is 3 of 6 spots filled on a six player X-Men, and that was back when it first came out). And secondly, do you actually have 3 friends who will actually want to play through TMNT all squished together with 3 other guys. And thirdly, do you have 3 friends who would want to do that enough times to make it worth the effort?

[Sephroth57]

yeah i agree with paige, I dunno what it is recently a lot of people asking about 4P panels. It does have a large "cool" factor when people see it, but its usefulness is debatable. my gauntlet dark legacy has 4 players... but its a dedicated machine so thats different. for MAME, i dont think its needed, its like when i bought my sports car, who cares if the back seat can barely fit a dog, im always driving =P

[Silver]

Well I agree in terms of number of playable games - but for me mame is not about being able to play several thousand games I never played originally. I have great memories of 4-player Guantlet and 4-player NBA Jam (and it's follow-ons) - and I'm tempted to make a 4 player control panel on the strength of those 2 games alone....

However, the points about being cramped are well made - in the arcade I rarely played for a long period of time as the

[Sephroth57]

well like i said in my earlier post, a podium desgin would be more comfortable for a 4P setup. my dedicated 4p setup is still a litle squishy if everyone is playing, the "deluxe" gauntlet legends with the podium design is much better for 4 players at once.

[Silver]

Thanx for that....


Sephroth57, do you have any pics of your 4P cab and podium GuantletL? Are Players 3 and 4 angled on the podium cab?

Cheers

[mvaughn]

yeah i agree with paige, I dunno what it is recently a lot of people asking about 4P panels. It does have a large "cool" factor when people see it, but its usefulness is debatable. my gauntlet dark legacy has 4 players... but its a dedicated machine so thats different. for MAME, i dont think its needed, its like when i bought my sports car, who cares if the back seat can barely fit a dog, im always driving =P

You make a good point Sephroth,

The primary reason I wanted a 4P CP was for coolness.  That is one of my reasons for building my mame cabinet.

Because my mame cabinet won't require quarters, actually having four players playing simultaneously is much more likely.

I think I have made up my mind about how many buttons I'll need for the CP now I need some advice on the orientation.  If anyone can give me a good reason to change the button counts for the players please do.

What is the best or most common way to orient the buttons for players 3 and 4?  should they be in a row, square or diamond....?

What is the best way to orient the 7 buttons for players 1 and 2?  I want to make Neo-Geo, Street Fighter, and Gauntlet have correct button orientation.

T = joystick
o = button

Code: [Select]

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
|             3                1                2                  4   |
|      T    o o        T    o o o        T     o o o        T    o o  |
|            o o           o o o o           o o o o              o o  |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

[paigeoliver]

Players 3 and 4 should have a diamond of buttons. I seem to recall D&D having that setup, and that is the only 4 button 4 player game, so there you go.

[mvaughn]

Code: [Select]

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
|             3                1                2                  4   |
|             o                                                   o     |
|      T    o o        T    o o o        T     o o o        T   o o    |
|             o            o o o o           o o o o               o     |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

[Silver]

Yep think I'd go with a diamond button arrangment for players 3 and 4 too.....

mvaughn: How big is this CP? is it on a stand up? A lot of player 3/4 postions on cabs have the button layout rotated 'outwards' a bit to accomodate standing at an angle to the monitor. Although I would advise against rotating the joysticks (if you were thinking of it) - keep them the same orientation as players 1 and 2 (i.e. 'up' is the same for all joysticks).

[mvaughn]

I was modelling my upright off the Ultimate Arcead II cabinet.  I'm not sure why but that style of cabinet has been in my mind since I first saw it 2 years ago.

http://www.cybertechdesign.net/mameroom/plans.asp?affId=

So, you would suggest keeping the 3 and 4 joystick postition aligned in the same cardinal direction as players 1 and 2?  That make quite a bit of sense.

I had originally intended to turn the direction of the 3, and 4 joysticks toward the video screen.

I think I'll do some searching for what format everyone prefers.

Chime in if you have an opinion.

[Witchboard]

My original thought was to angle them also, but then, if you wanted to play games like Smash T.V. it would make it a lot more difficult.  Having the joys mounted all the same way would open you up to more games.

Woops:  Seems you've started another thread on this topic.  

[Rawker]

here is the one i'm going to do, although i'll probably move all the 1-4 player controls inward about another inch or 2 to allow for more wrist support.