Bad Idea?

[spisi]

I want to be able to play driving games. I'm thinking about getting a Super Sprint machine and adding MAME to it. Should I attempt this? I don't want to modify any of the existing parts (maybe upgrade the monitor to LCD), just want to add to it. Can this be done without screwing up any of the original components? Or is this a bad idea?

[Osirus23]

upgrade the monitor to LCD

Ugh

[SORHP]

I want to be able to play driving games. I'm thinking about getting a Super Sprint machine and adding MAME to it. Should I attempt this? I don't want to modify any of the existing parts (maybe upgrade the monitor to LCD), just want to add to it. Can this be done without screwing up any of the original components? Or is this a bad idea?

Terrible idea, build a cab

[spisi]

The thing is, I really want the Super Sprint machine, but it won't play any other driving games   I only have room for one more machine. So it's either I build a MAME driving cabinet OR get the Super Sprint.....Is it really that horrible of an idea? Could it be done?

[Mike A]

You could put two cabs in the same space as one Super Sprint.

Driving games have a wide variety of different control methods.

Using the Super Sprint for MAME is a terrible idea. For one thing SS only has a start button and no shifter. What other games were you planning on playing?

And slapping a ---smurfy--- LCD in the cab is not an upgrade.

[SORHP]

You could put two cabs in the same space as one Super Sprint.

Driving games have a wide variety of different control methods.

Using the Super Sprint for MAME is a terrible idea. For one thing SS only has a start button and no shifter. What other games were you planning on playing?

And slapping a ---smurfy--- LCD in the cab is not an upgrade.

This

[spisi]

I guess Outrun, Pole Position...OK OK I get it....

[Mike A]

How do you propose to shift gears?

[spisi]

I could always create a remote (USB) button for that

[Mike A]

You mean two buttons right?

Up and down.

This idea is getting worse and it was already bad to begin with.

[Hoopz]

There are no bad idea. Only a lack of will to execute them.

[mahuti]

    There are no bad idea     

Clearly you've never met any of my design clients.

... or my childhood friends for that matter.

[Howard_Casto]

Can't play outrun.... it requires an analog wheel.  Most of the good racers require an analog wheel.  Super sprint might be able to play offroad and badlands but you don't have the controls for anything else. 

[spisi]

What!!!!! My wheel won't work for Outrun??? What about Pole Position? Arrrrrgh!!!

[Mike A]

You should listen to the people who know what they are talking about.

I am assuming you asked the question because you wanted advice from people with experience.

They are all telling you that it is a bad idea and the reasons why it is a bad idea.

Don't buy that cab unless you just want to play Super Sprint which is a fantastic game.

[Cynicaster]

What!!!!! My wheel won't work for Outrun??? What about Pole Position? Arrrrrgh!!!

To begin to understand the crux of the steering wheel issue, consider this difference: some games (such as Pole Position and Sprint) used free-spinning steering wheels, while others (such as Outrun and many later racing games) used wheels that were limited in rotation to ~270 degrees.  The signals these two types of controller send to the game are very different, so they need to be handled differently.  MAME can help you "fake it" with almost any kind of controller on any kind of game, but attempting to use one type of steering controller on a game that originally used the other will likely lead to results that are at best wonky/frustrating and at worst completely unusable. 

Even if you manage to somehow optimize a steering wheel solution to your satisfaction, you still need to sort out the gearshift and pedals, each of which have multiple nuances of their own that make one-size-fits-all solutions elusive. 

There is a thread somewhere on this site that is loaded with everything you need to know about driving cabinet projects.  I'm too lazy to dig it out but you should be able to find it no problem.  For a fleeting moment I considered building a driving project but reading that thread talked me out of it, to be honest.    Just seemed like too much of a headache and more of a time investment on the setup side than I was willing to make. 

[jennifer]

Converting cabs shouldn't be done with minimal changes or even realistically a budget in mind as it can get really expensive fast, even more so without a fully equipped fab shop...Personally Jenn likes the commercial grade Lcd, as they made with the arcade game in mind, multi inputs, fast transition speeds, nice view angles and most of all clean build lines, with a substantial weight reduction over its crt counerpart...Parts (including wheel/shifter) most likely will have to be changed and modified to even fit the cab, much less run it with mame, It is not a bad idea IMO , just a really intense project that could realistically take years to implement...When it is done it is worth virually nothing out there in the real world.

[Mike A]

Get out of here with your LCD talk.

[Osirus23]

Summary: Bad idea. Don't butcher the cab. Find space for a second MAME cab.

[spisi]

Thanks everybody for your input.  I guess I'll just make a new control panel with two steering wheels, and gas pedals. My favorite driving games are the sprints so no need for a shifter...Thanks again.

[leapinlew]

Thanks everybody for your input.  I guess I'll just make a new control panel with two steering wheels, and gas pedals. My favorite driving games are the sprints so no need for a shifter...Thanks again.

I built a driving cabinet with a 360 wheel and micro-switch pedals. The games that worked best for it were Super Sprint and Off-road. Everything else was too much compromise. I did have a return to center shifter, but it's not very arcade-like. Once I started going through the game list, it was crazy how many different variations the controls for the games had. Some of the control panel variances: hi\low shifter, hi\low shifter with buttons, manual shifter, manual shifter with buttons, analog pedals, micro-switch pedals, 270 degree steering wheel, 360 wheel, view buttons, turbo buttons, and various other buttons.

Once you settle on your controls, it's crazy how small the game list gets for games you can play accurately. I could technically play pole position, as long as I would always floor it because the pedals were either on or off, and you would have to guess whether you were in high or low on the shifter. In other words, it really wasn't playable.

[Howard_Casto]

The thing about racing cabinets/cockpits is if you want a catch-all it's usually best to learn towards modern games and design around them..... they just play better and it's less of a confusing mess shifter and pedal wise. 

[spisi]

Update: So I have a temporary set up. Using the control panel from a Top Speed cabinet and connecting it to a U-HID. I have successfully got this thing to work! Steering wheel, gas pedal, and shifter are all working beautifully! Games that work so far: Super Sprint, Pole Position, Offroad, Badlands and last but not least.......Top Speed! Games that don't work so far: Outrun and Cruisin' USA. Not so bad.....Now to either build a swappable control panel or a new cabinet...

[spisi]

So, the steering wheel works for Top Speed, Super Sprint, but not Outrun. Hmmmmm. Look at the three pictures, they all say that the steering function are analogs and are assigned to mouse x axis. Why won't Outrun pick up the steering wheel as a mouse like the other two games???

[Howard_Casto]

I think I told you that outrun won't work.  Even if you change some settings and get mame to respond it won't handle properly.  If you want to play both 360 degree and analog wheels (as in NOT a mouse) then you need two cabinets with both types of controls or a cabinet with two removeable control panels to switch between the types.  Analog wheels have either force feedback or a spring that return it to center and 360 degree wheels do not.  This means the games are programmed differently as 360 degree wheels use relative positioning, similar to a mouse and analog wheels use absolute positioning, like a joystick.....

In other words Outrun and similar games knows what position the wheel is turned to at all times while Pole Position and similar games only knows when you are turning the wheel and how much you've turned it.... it doesn't have a clue what position the wheel is actually in. 

[PL1]

Also, the Outrun and Super Sprint menu screenshots have a clue about which type of control they use.

- Outrun steering wheel input is labeled "Paddle Analog" ==> potentiometer like a Pong paddle (270 degree wheel) ==> absolute position.

- Super Sprint steering wheel input is labeled "Dial Analog" ==> optical control like a Tempest spinner or mouse (360 degree wheel) ==> relative position.

For games that don't follow the standard MAME naming conventions of paddle or dial, you can tell by looking in the manual for the parts breakdown and/or schematics and/or PCB edge connector pinout. (a pot uses one data line, an optical control uses two data lines)


Scott

[shponglefan]

The thing about racing cabinets/cockpits is if you want a catch-all it's usually best to learn towards modern games and design around them.....

The best thing for modern racing games is to just go full VR. Negates the need for a screen setup/enclosure. Just a mount for the wheels, shifter and pedals.

Of course at that point it's gotten away from the whole arcade setup...

[jennifer]

Well there is something to the soft glow of a traditional build, A aluminium race car seat, analog gauges (may require some hacking) and Imo a giant interactive shaker under the seat, some fancy tin work perhaps...I just sold a couple cockpits to a guy with no vision, In hindsight Jenn should have told him to just pound sand, rather than cut him a sweet deal.

[spisi]

OK. So I'm just going to build a second control panel with two steering wheels. I am in search of a second matching steering wheel and pedal. They came off a Top Speed machine. I'm looking for a non-working beat up machine. I know that Full Throttle (Japanese version of Top Speed) and Speed Buggy used the same wheel. Does anyone know of any other machines that used the same wheel?