Advice on building a PC

[Howard_Casto]

Ok I've been threatening to build/buy a new pc for a few years now but it's finally time.  I've got some extra money, my current desktop will be 10 years old in a few months and I currently have to hot wire it to get it to boot because of failing caps. 

I'm trying to keep the budget for the pc itself around $400, which is tight, but I need to upgrade my monitor and buy a new UPS, so I'm setting some aside for that
So obviously I haven't done this in a looong time and I'm unfamiliar with the performance/quality of popular components.
I'm fairly certain this is the MB I want to use:

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-b450m-ds3h/p/N82E16813145083?Item=N82E16813145083

It has all the necessary slots and was the cheapest I could find with 4 ram slots.  Ram should be easy btw... I'll get 16gigs (2x8) of ddr4 running at least 3000mhz.  I should be able to find that for about $60.

There seems to be two schools of thought in regards to how to balance things.  Some people say get as good a processor as you can afford and skimp on the video card a little and others say to do the opposite as most games don't use a lot of cpu power.  As I'll obviously want to run emulators on the thing, I'm not so sure that's a good idea.  I do want to run pc games though and it'd be nice to play some games at 4k as I've got a cheapo VR headset I can barely use sitting in the corner.  I had initially wanted to run this rx570 with a ryzen 5 1600, but the cpu just went off sale and it's 50 bucks more now.  I might still go with that but I'm just too unfamiliar with the ryzen line to know which is the best value.

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-radeon-rx-570-gv-rx570gaming-4gd-rev2-0/p/N82E16814932242?Item=N82E16814932242

Thoughts on the card and a potential cpu?  I know very little about the ryzen apus… would they be a better option?

Ok now on to storage.  I've noticed that some people seem to want to get a very small ssd and pair that with a 1tb 7200 rpm.  Is there any reason to do that other than cost?  I ask because Newegg has a 512gb ssd for $54 right now.  I've got sata drives lying around so doesn't that seem like enough storage?

Power supplies seem to be a tad bit expensive right now.... I don't know if people are buying more stuff because of the pandemic or what but I used to be able to get a decent power supply for $40 and now it's closer to $60.  That's not a huge difference, but since my budget is so tight it'd be nice to find a deal.

As for a case I'm not picky.  Obviously I don't want it to look like junk, but I don't need a fully rgb lit case with 12 fans on it either.  I notice the style seems to be to put the usb ports on the top of the case now.... I'm not sure if I like that or not.  It makes sense as most towers are in the floor, but it seems like that'd make it real easy to snap off a thumb drive or usb cable. 

So guys suggestions or general advice would be welcome.  I spent most of yesterday evening and most of this morning researching and I still don't have a clear plan of attack. 


*Update* Final Parts list/Bill:
---------------------------------------------

CPU:
ryzen 5 3600 = $173
https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-5-3600/p/N82E16819113569?Item=N82E16819113569

GPU:
MSI Radeon RX 570 DirectX 12 RX 570 8gb = $140 (-$15 MIR) = $125
https://www.newegg.com/msi-radeon-rx-570-rx-570-8gt-oc/p/N82E16814137521?Item=N82E16814137521

Motherboard:
Gigabyte B450M DS3H = $73 (-$15 credit for reloading gift card balance -$5 visa rewards credit) = $53
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FWVJSHC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

HDD:
Teamgroup GX2 512GB 2.5" Sata III SSD = $59 (-$90 amazon visa credit)= $-31
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NRMXWHW/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Case:
DeepCool MATREXX 55 = $48.75
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GVL3CKJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

RAM:
XPG Z1 3000mhz DDR4 16GB(2x8) =$69
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TN4H7PX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Power Supply:
Corsair CV450 = $67
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-cv-series-cv450-cp-9020209-na-450w/p/N82E16817139251?Item=N82E16817139251

Fans/RGB:
Apevia ST6P2-RGB 6-pack with 2 argb led strips and controller =$49
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0872H2XYQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Final Total = ~$554

[Drnick]

I Was tasked with building a sub £500 machine recently,  Couldn't do it though, Ended up being more like £600,  Could have been done it if I didn't add a Video card,  Ultimately Went with Ryzen 5 3600x, 256GB M2 Drive,16GB (2x8GB) Ram,  RX 570 Graphics card, Simple glass sided case and 700W semi modular PSU.

The best Ryzen APU will get Trounced by even the cheapest Mid Range card. 

If I was you and doing this I would either up the budget by a couple of hundred or get the best processor possible and upgrade the Video card in the future.
As for SSD,  I can't recommend a decent M2 Drive enough.  Boot times are crazy fast with this.  Slap a 2TB Enterprise Sata drive in for general storage.

As for USB ports on top front,  yep we have suffered at work from many a snapped USB drive   To avoid this I now use a Logitech USB Extension

[pbj]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/wiki/builds

[shponglefan]

Ok now on to storage.  I've noticed that some people seem to want to get a very small ssd and pair that with a 1tb 7200 rpm.  Is there any reason to do that other than cost?  I ask because Newegg has a 512gb ssd for $54 right now.  I've got sata drives lying around so doesn't that seem like enough storage?

It's a combination of cost vs performance, and it's generally a good practice to separate things like OS and data on different drives.

On my gaming PC I use three drives: 250 GB SSD for OS, 1 TB SSD for games, and a 2 TB 5400 RPM HDD for misc data storage.

[Howard_Casto]

Well I think normally my budget would be doable, but this damn pandemic has everybody at home and component prices are rising.  Like the reddit thread pbj linked to... yeah it recommends the ryzen 1600 like I was wanting to use.  The only problem is it says it's 90 bucks.... nope it's 150 now.  What annoys me is I had one in my cart yesterday and while I was researching all the other stuff they sold out.    I'm more flexible that I normally would be on the price... I can go up a hundred... two if absolutely necessary, but that means I'll probably have to skimp on the monitor, and this one is a 19" 1600x900 ips….. time to at least get that up to a 24" 1080p

I guess people just need more space than me then.  I've got a 500gb 7200 rpm in this machine and while it gets full a lot, I rarely need more space.  I think a 512gb ssd (maybe less) coupled with the drives I currently have would do fine.  I used to be adamant about separating data from the OS but honestly I've just threw them all on one drive on this pc and I never had any issues.  It'll take me longer to transfer my data over when I get the new pc, but eh... you don't do that too often.

[JDFan]

Another thing you might want to consider is a refurbished off lease system from Dell or HP - they can be had pretty cheap and include just about everything you need - If you get a tower case and then just upgrade the Power supply ( if needed though the tower models usually have decent PSUs in them to begin with ) and Video card you can usually build it much cheaper than going from scratch

For example for $200 you can get a Lenovo M93 ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-ThinkCentre-M93P-MT-Desktop-PC-i5-4570-3-2GHz-12GB-RAM-1TB-Windows-10-Pro/174276382899?hash=item2893ae90b3:g:E3QAAOSwG4FetcZt ) with 12GB of Ram an i5 4570 CPU with a 1TB HDD and a fresh install of Win10 Pro - And that leaves plenty of room in your budget to do some upgrading of the PSU/Video card/SSD drive.

[Howard_Casto]

I'm tempted to do that...That's what I've been doing in mame cabs for years.  My mother works at a rather large business and every couple of years they upgrade their pcs (I guess because they like wasting money) and they sell off the old ones to employees for around $70.  That and arrow direct means I rarely spend over $150 for a mame cabinet. 

The thing is you are usually locked into what you are buying.  The case and power supply are proprietary and the ram slots are typically full, so it makes it difficult to upgrade in the future.  That being said what I usually end up upgrading over time is the graphics card and possibly the ram.  I've never found it worth it to upgrade the cpu or the harddrive or anything like that. 

I'm going to take another look tonight.  I would like to get a processor nearing 4 ghz (or 4ghz when overclocked).  That ought to future proof it for emulators anyway.  In terms of pc games I'm not really a fps guy.... it's more like games that could have been released in an arcade (Mortal Kombat X and 11, ect.)

[JDFan]

That and arrow direct means I rarely spend over $150 for a mame cabinet. 

Must have been awhile for you -- ArrowDirect has gotten out of the refurb business awhile back.

[Howard_Casto]

I think I bought the last one a couple of years ago.  it hasn't been that long. 

Anyway I figured out what is going on.  AMD is about to release some new ryzen 3 processors in a couple of weeks so Newegg and amazon are trying to get rid of all their old stock.  Scalpers are buying them up and then re-selling for inflated prices. 

So I guess the new pc might have to wait a while until things stabilize. 

[Howard_Casto]

You guys have answered my questions so I know what direction I'm headed, but in case this thread helps anyone I'm going to keep it going until my purchases are complete and the pc is built and running.  I went ahead and bought a ssd.  It's just a cheapo sata 512gb I found on amazon.  No m2, but every now and again they put the smaller ones on sale...if there's a good price I could always buy that later on. 

As for the cpu and gpu, I found this video:



First off MK11 (and MKX for that matter) is kind of odd.  Cut scenes and menus seem to hover around 30fps, but once actual gameplay is started it's a rock-solid 60fps and that's at max settings.  Newegg currently has this card on sale for $120 after rebate (135 without).  That's pretty inexpensive and it runs my target game at 60fps in 4k.  So I guess that's the video card I'm getting.  MK11 is fairly graphically rich compared to the stuff I normally play, so that should do fine.  Also take note of the processor usage..... it's a 12 thread running around 4ghz and basically only about half of them are being used with only one being really taxed (maxing out at 40%) at a time.  It makes me think perhaps my cpu target is a little overkill.  The problem is nothing mid-end or higher is at a good price right now due to the reasons I mentioned before.  A ryzen 5 3600 is on sale for $175, but do I really want to pay that much over my intended target?  Will any emulators that actually need a lot of processing power (like mame) take advantage of the power if it's split over 12 threads?  Things to think about at least. 

Oh if you guys are bored you could always look at cases for me....My problem with selecting a case is there are just too many to look through.  I'm looking for something around $50 or less that looks cool.  I don't want it tacky, but at the same time I haven't built a real gaming pc since the 00's, so I might as well do it right.  I'll post some links to good ones as I find them in case anyone else is looking. 

[Howard_Casto]

Found one on sale that has an interesting look:

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811197006?Item=N82E16811197006

Tempered glass is unusual at that price range.. the front kind of makes it look like a sub woofer though. 

[fallacy]

no front fans, no dust filter.

[Howard_Casto]

In this price range you are either going to get front fans or back fans, not both.  It's something I can pick up inexpensively on ebay and I'd probably splurge for rgb leds then.  As for dust filters, I live in coal country so those filters don't do ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.... the particulate in the air and the coal dust are so fine they get into everything.  I actually clean my pcs periodically. 

[Howard_Casto]

Eh screw it.  I'll just spend ~$600 and get what I want.  I've ordered my video card because that was about to go off sale.  I'll go with a ryzen 5 even though it's overkill... maybe it'll give me a few more years worth of life on the thing.  I can still use a little cheap-fu to knock some price off though.  Amazon was doing the old "buy $50 gift card, get a $15 credit" promotion so I ordered a gift card and promptly added it to my own account to buy the motherboard, which is sold by amazon directly, so I'll wait a day for that $15 credit to come in and put it towards the purchase.  Staples has exactly one computer case in my price range and they have the old $15 off of $60 coupon, so if I decide on that one I'll buy it there and that'll be some more off.  The other components aren't a big deal so I'll just order them once I figure the rest out. 

I would be willing to spend more on a case if I found something that really wowed me, but I'm just not feeling anything yet.  Here is the one on staples.com btw (their pics sucked so I'm linking Newegg)

https://www.newegg.com/black-cooler-master-masterbox-lite-3-1-microatx-mini-tower/p/N82E16811119326?item=N82E16811119326&nm_mc=knc-googleadwords&cm_mmc=knc-googleadwords-_-cases%20(computer%20cases%20-%20atx%20form)-_-cooler%20master-_-11119326&source=region

Apparently it's all acrylic, which kind of sucks, but I do like the design.  I'll have to think on it. 

[jpS14]

Hey Howard I use https://pcpartpicker.com/ to try to track down the best deals. Just use the filters to really get it down to what you want. Plus https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/ will post some good deals if you can catch them.

What graphics card did you end up going with?

[Grasshopper]

You could always do what I do and upgrade your existing desktop PC.

My PC actually dates from the late 90s. However, in reality, every single component apart from the beige case and a floppy drive I keep purely for reasons of nostalgia has been replaced multiple times.

Last time I did a major upgrade I only had to buy a new motherboard, processor, and RAM. I was able to reuse every other component apart from the graphics card. Unfortunately, it used an AGP slot which had been phased out. So, for a couple of years, I made do with the GPU built into the processor.

[fallacy]

Hey Howard I use https://pcpartpicker.com/ to try to track down the best deals. Just use the filters to really get it down to what you want. Plus https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/ will post some good deals if you can catch them.

Ya PcPartPicker is a good site, it accurately shows every retailer that sells the part and the price they are currently trying to sell it for. I accidentally stumbled on that site when I did my rebuild a few months ago and was looking for i7-9700K and at the time it showed Best Buy out of all places coming in at $340 while Newegg and Amazon were $400 plus… so I bought it from Best Buy, don't think I ever bought a PC part form Best Buy before.

[Howard_Casto]

I got this one:

https://www.newegg.com/msi-radeon-rx-570-rx-570-8gt-oc/p/N82E16814137521?Item=N82E16814137521

It's not a super high end card by any means, but from what I read if I want to do some real basic 4k/vr gaming (think graphics settings on low or medium) this should be adequate.  Of course they put the rx 580 on sale this morning.   

I've been using part picker but it became pretty clear that in this moment in time at least, all the good deals are on Newegg.com IF the part in question has free shipping.  If not it's probably cheaper at staples or amazon. 

I would re-use my old case, but it's a hp, meaning some of the bits are proprietary and I think it's going into my mame cab anyway.  It's failing hard, but my mame cab pc is from the same generation of intel processors, so I intend to upgrade it with any salvageable parts.  I'm really leaning towards the cooler master case.  After seeing some pics online with a couple of 120mm led fans installed on the front it looks pretty sharp.  Yeah the build quality is cheap but looks nice and hell, the front of the desktop I'm using right now (hp quad core duo) has a polished acrylic front and other than being a dust magnet it hasn't suffered from any major scratches or finger print issues over the years.  I mean how often do you touch the front of your case now that optical drives are a thing of the past?

I've actually got some early 90's cases in storage but right now at least, I'm over having huge ugly beige boxes in my life.  I'm saving them though since I'm sure they'll come back in fashion.

Right now I'm patiently waiting for amazon to send me my credit.  Passed up some sweet looking rgb ram the other day because I couldn't figure out if rgb fusion 1.0 could control rgb ram or not.  I know 2.0 can. 

Yeah best buy occasionally has some decent deals but our best buy is so out of the way that I'm not getting anything there unless I can get it shipped to my home for free.  It's been quite a while since I bought anything there as well. 

[Howard_Casto]

Here's a good one:

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811553031?Item=N82E16811553031&nm_mc=AFC-RAN-COM&cm_mmc=AFC-RAN-COM&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-PCPartPicker&AFFID=2558510&AFFNAME=PCPartPicker&ACRID=1&ASID=https%3a%2f%2fpcpartpicker.com%2fproduct%2fvYp323%2fcougar-mx330-atx-mid-tower-case-mx330&ranMID=44583&ranEAID=2558510&ranSiteID=8BacdVP0GFs-w_5MaL5yLkLQSc1OJUBq9w

Better build quality but I don't know about that mesh front. 

[Howard_Casto]

If this wasn't backordered I'd probably buy it right now.  Comes with three rgb fans which makes it the overall best value for the price range:

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/P7prxr/antec-dark-fleet-df500-rgb-atx-mid-tower-case-df500-rgb

[Howard_Casto]

Eh I ended up with the cooler master after all.  For whatever reason all the mid range cases that weren't ugly were sold out or on backorder.  I mean if I want to wait around and see if they come back in..nah.. It'll take a while for all the parts to come in and I need to get things ordered before old (not so)reliable poops out on me.  Now I'll search for some good fans...

[fallacy]

PC cases have come a long way, in 2007 one of the best cases you could get was the  Antec Nine Hundred; so good you can still buy it today. https://www.newegg.com/antec-ca-900/p/2BA-00C0-00005
If you were to compare it to even the cheapest case today there is...
no dust filter.
no power supply shroud.
no way to wrap the wires from the back of the case to the front, so all wires would just be hanging in your build.
the only way to get to the hard drive bays is to unscrew these shelves from both sides of the PC unplug your drive and pull from the front.
No case fan hub, each fan had to be plugged individually from the power supply.
Even the first attempt at a glass side panel looks lame.
about the only thing it did right were the fans and air flow

[Osirus23]

Fractal Design cases are the best.

[Howard_Casto]

*sigh*

Well I guess I'm going case hunting again.  Staples sent me an email saying they were out of cases...even though the website clearly still shows them in stock.  Oh but the $2 worth of paper I used to pad my order up to $60 is on it's way.     Those ---uvulas--- just didn't want to honor the coupon.  So I'm not buying from them and Newegg doesn't have that case in stock.  Back to the drawing board.  Oh but My cheap-fu is paying off and I'll be closer to my target than I expected.  I'm going to put a running total in the first post just in case it proves helpful to anyone else. 

[nexusmtz]

PC cases have come a long way, in 2007 one of the best cases you could get was the  Antec Nine Hundred; ...

I'm still doing the cable smash every time I slide the mangled fingers of the side panel back into place. 900 forever! 

[Howard_Casto]

Ok round 2 (or 30.. who's counting) for cases.  On Newegg at least I've found a few. 

Here's the first one:

https://www.newegg.com/black-fsp-cmt120a-atx-mid-tower/p/2AM-005W-00010

Overall I like this one as the front panel will let leds shine through like the one I originally ordered, but those drive bays and fugly headphone jacks kind of suck. 

Case #2:

https://www.newegg.com/black-raidmax-galaxy-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811156390

Yeah I know, it's completely impractical as the front doesn't have any vents, but come on man!  Infinity mirror!!

Case #3:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/APEX-Apexgaming-X1-Black-Steel-Tempered-Glass-E-ATX-Mid-Tower-Chassis-Computer-/292785656206?mkevt=1&mkrid=711-153677-346401-4&mkcid=2&keyword=&crlp=307364301297_&MT_ID=&geo_id=&rlsatarget=dsa-19959388920&adpos=&device=c&loc=9009075&poi=&abcId=&cmpgn=1615587334&sitelnk=&test=LauraTest&gclid=CjwKCAjwkun1BRAIEiwA2mJRWdtQGZVq4rDGXCpaCouCNNhvSbEzXIIZ4uRshk2wfuS-J8Oog_aNLxoCZEkQAvD_BwE

It's a bit pricer than the other options, but it's closer to what I originally ordered.  That "jeweled" pattern on the front might not be for me though... very 90's. 

[fallacy]

Case #3:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/APEX-Apexgaming-X1-Black-Steel-Tempered-Glass-E-ATX-Mid-Tower-Chassis-Computer-/292785656206?mkevt=1&mkrid=711-153677-346401-4&mkcid=2&keyword=&crlp=307364301297_&MT_ID=&geo_id=&rlsatarget=dsa-19959388920&adpos=&device=c&loc=9009075&poi=&abcId=&cmpgn=1615587334&sitelnk=&test=LauraTest&gclid=CjwKCAjwkun1BRAIEiwA2mJRWdtQGZVq4rDGXCpaCouCNNhvSbEzXIIZ4uRshk2wfuS-J8Oog_aNLxoCZEkQAvD_BwE

It's a bit pricer than the other options, but it's closer to what I originally ordered.  That "jeweled" pattern on the front might not be for me though... very 90's.

Bought the Phanteks Eclipse P400S for my media PC https://www.newegg.com/satin-black-phanteks-eclipse-series-p400s-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811854030?Item=N82E16811854030
That one almost looks like t was built the exact same way with a different front cover. Not sure I like that front cover though I would prefer looking a something more sleek.


Edit: looking at it again with the led fans showing through that whatever design apparently glass front cover it looks pretty cool I would go with that one.

[Howard_Casto]

And by the time I had a chance to get on the pc and order it was sold out.   

But perhaps it was a blessing in disguise.  Check out the one that popped up this afternoon that I ended up getting:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GVL3CKJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's got a couple of quirky things like no blackout around the panel edges and inexplicably no basement, but tempered glass on the front and side plus a 12v rgb front strip that is compatible with my motherboard at only 45 bucks... yes please.  I'll get a cheap argb fan kit and it should look pretty sweet. 

I've gotta research ram and power supplies next, which should be as simple as finding the lowest price for the specs I need and then I'm done.  Thankfully.  My poor baby is really limping with those worn out caps in the power supply and motherboard.  Hopefully it'll last until I get the new one assembled. 

Then I've got to go monitor hunting....ugh....

[Howard_Casto]

Ok assuming everything comes in ok I'm mostly done with ordering crap. 

I got the cheapest 3000mhz 16gb pair of ram that didn't look ugly and apparently while I've spent the last day or so researching cases everyone sold out of power supplies.  I got a br rated 450watt... I wanted a 500watt but they were sold out unless I wanted to pay a greatly inflated price.  Anyway I used one of those calculators and it said I really only need a 400watt so it should be ok. 

My approximate total thus far is $505 which includes my local taxes, so your mileage will vary.  It's probably a few bucks cheaper than that as I've been rounding up the totals, but the point is yeah $400 wasn't possible given the inflated prices due to the pandemic, but It's only a hundred over.  I'll spend 30 or 40 dollars on fans and stuff but I wasn't really counting that in the total anyway.. that's just misc expenses that pop up on any build.  Mind you without the cheap-fu shenanigan's it'd be closer to 600, but you all know how to clip coupons and take advantage of deals. 

Now tonight when I get time I have to travel down the argb fan/light strip rabbit hole.  I've already spent a couple of hours looking.... trying to figure out which fans are compatible with which controllers is a nightmare as all the cheap stuff is unlabeled. 

[pbj]

Go big or go home

[shponglefan]

I got the cheapest 3000mhz 16gb pair of ram that didn't look ugly

You mean you didn't go for the super-fancy Rainbow Brite themed LED gaming RAM?

[Howard_Casto]

My motherboard won't control argb ram, so if I do something like that I'd have to use those bolt-on heatsinks with external controllers.  Eh it just wasn't worth it. 

pbj:  I have one of those in the shed. 

[Howard_Casto]

Ugh, so after another night of search the interwebs for fans I finally settled upon this no-name brand:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0872H2XYQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The best I can tell apevia is this company that rebrands Chinese merch for western sales... sort of like how Radio Shack did back in the day.  This fan set and controller are based upon the coolmoon dual ring rgb fans and controller which get surprisingly good reviews on the interwebs.  The proprietary connectors worried me but I looked into it and it's just all the standard voltage and data inputs (plus a data out for each led strip for daisy chaining) combined into one connector.  The fans are not controllable due to this but I started thinking... the 12v is the only thing the fans are using and the controller certainly isn't powered by 12v, it uses 5.  So the solution would be to just remove those pins and attach them to a standard 4 pin connector fed into a speed controller.  Hell I might be able to just remove the 12v pin on the main molex connector going into the controller and do it there to save wiring.  Also someone has already made a custom controller for the leds and the interface is stupidly simple to build. 

https://blog.ja-ke.tech/2019/06/11/re-coolmoon-rgb-controller.html

So if I don't like the effects I'll just throw a spare arduino in there and roll my own controller.  The led strips are just a nice bonus that only cost a couple of bucks more.  If I don't like the single color strip on the front of the case I might switch it out for one of the strips. 

Now I'm taking a break for a few days and then I'll start searching for a new monitor. 

[Grasshopper]

I guess I'm swimming against the tide here, but what irritates me about modern PC cases (apart from the chintzy build quality) is the lack of external drive bays. I realise not everyone wants an optical drive anymore, but they're still useful for things like trayless hard drive racks, and for adding extra USB ports, card readers etc.

That's one reason why you'll have to prise my beige case from my cold dead hands.

[fallacy]

I have a Phanteks Enthoo as my primary case https://www.amazon.com/Phanteks-PH-ES518XTG_DGS01-Tempered-Windows-Digital/dp/B07GY26TZJ/ref=psdc_572238_t1_B01803RRLI?th=1

It is not cheep the the case is made of steel you just have to spend more than $60 for a case. AS far as front IO you are doing it wrong, every once and a wile I am annoyed at not heaving an optical drive in the same way I am annoyed that the iphone got rid of the audio jack; ya I hardly use it and there are ways around it but it would be more convenient if it was just there.

[Mike A]

A PC case doesn't have to stop bullets. 

[Howard_Casto]

I guess I'm swimming against the tide here, but what irritates me about modern PC cases (apart from the chintzy build quality) is the lack of external drive bays. I realise not everyone wants an optical drive anymore, but they're still useful for things like trayless hard drive racks, and for adding extra USB ports, card readers etc.

That's one reason why you'll have to prise my beige case from my cold dead hands.

USB 3 kind of killed that argument.  I've got an optical drive in an external enclosure.  When I need one (which is usually only to install vb 6 when I first install windows) I plug it in and when I don't it's out of the way and not eating up power and prematurely killing my power supply.  I used to want all kinds of crap on my computers in terms of add-on ports but I've come to the realization that all I actually use are the two usb ports and the headphone jack.  Even for sd cards I typically use the little usb adaptors that come with hardware as It's quicker than trying to hunt up a sd-mini to standard sd card adaptor. 

I agree with Mike btw.  I don't mind spending more if I think I'm getting more value, but I just got a case with tempered glass on the front and side for 50 bucks and I think it looks nice.  If I spend more than that I would feel obligated to keep using the case after this new pc needs replaced and by then I'm sure styles will have changed and I'll want something new. 

[Osirus23]

I guess I'm swimming against the tide here, but what irritates me about modern PC cases (apart from the chintzy build quality) is the lack of external drive bays. I realise not everyone wants an optical drive anymore, but they're still useful for things like trayless hard drive racks, and for adding extra USB ports, card readers etc.

Yep. I still need external drive bays. Not just for an optical drive but for other accessories that go into them. My current case has 2 and it's built to last so I should be good.

[Cakemeister]

Have you checked out commercial products? A lot of times there are hidden costs, like operating system, that you need to take into account.

[Grasshopper]

USB 3 kind of killed that argument.  I've got an optical drive in an external enclosure.  When I need one (which is usually only to install vb 6 when I first install windows) I plug it in and when I don't it's out of the way and not eating up power and prematurely killing my power supply.  I used to want all kinds of crap on my computers in terms of add-on ports but I've come to the realization that all I actually use are the two usb ports and the headphone jack.  Even for sd cards I typically use the little usb adaptors that come with hardware as It's quicker than trying to hunt up a sd-mini to standard sd card adaptor. 

The points you make are perfectly valid. But ironically, you’re actually making the case against using a full size ATX case. If you choose not to populate the drive bays, then you’re basically left with an unnecessarily large and mostly empty box.

Full size towers are a throwback to a previous era of computing. And if I’m honest with myself, the main reason I keep using one is nostalgia. It just feels more like a real computer than my laptop, tablet, and phone. But I have to admit, it’s a bit of a dinosaur. Even if you need/want a high end graphics card, there are more convenient form factors available.

With regards to an optical drive, my attitude is that there’s plenty of spare room in my case, I’ve got loads of sata connectors available, and the drives themselves are dirt cheap, and use very little power when not spinning. So why not fit one?

[shponglefan]

USB 3 kind of killed that argument.  I've got an optical drive in an external enclosure.

What enclosure do you use? I tried searching for one awhile back for my Blu-ray drive, and the only one available these days seems to be from Vantec (https://www.newegg.ca/vantec-nst-536s3-bk-enclosure/p/N82E16817392100). A number of reviews pointed to an inadequate power supply, so I held off buying it.

[Howard_Casto]

It's just some no-name Chinese adaptor that came out when sata was new if that gives you an idea of how old it is.  I can snap you a pic when I start my build and have to dig it out of storage.  Honestly I'm going to see about getting a laptop dvdrw drive and getting a smaller enclosure that uses less power.  Lugging an ancient 5.5 drive around is a pita. 

I just took a quick search and with current prices it's better just to get an external drive:

https://www.newegg.ca/lg-model-gp60nb50-slim-dvd-burner/p/N82E16827136265

Here's a bluray writeable for $90

https://www.newegg.ca/p/105-005K-00003

I can't believe how much the prices have went up on enclosures.  I think I paid $20 for mine bitd. 

[shponglefan]

Part of the reason I want to keep my existing drive is because I've been using it to rip my DVD and Blu-ray collections. I've looked into external Blu-ray drives, but apparently not all of them work properly for that purpose.

[Osirus23]

Full size towers are a throwback to a previous era of computing. And if I’m honest with myself, the main reason I keep using one is nostalgia. It just feels more like a real computer than my laptop, tablet, and phone. But I have to admit, it’s a bit of a dinosaur. Even if you need/want a high end graphics card, there are more convenient form factors available.

I need a decent sized case just to fit my hardware. My CPU cooler is about 5.5" cubed and my video card is a triple-slot behemoth. These components didn't used to be anywhere near this massive.

[Howard_Casto]

Agreed.  Unfortunately you need the space.  I'll eventually be getting a better video card, which is why I went with a large-ish case. 

Parts are coming in.  I'm waiting on the motherboard, ram, case and fans.  Just a little public service message for anyone that might be doing a similar build.  That power supply that I linked at the top must have had the wrong pics on the website.  It's actually a nicer power supply with black powder coating and all black wires.  I thought it was kind of odd to have colored wires on a bronze rated power supply. 

[Grasshopper]

What enclosure do you use? I tried searching for one awhile back for my Blu-ray drive, and the only one available these days seems to be from Vantec (https://www.newegg.ca/vantec-nst-536s3-bk-enclosure/p/N82E16817392100). A number of reviews pointed to an inadequate power supply, so I held off buying it.

I faced exactly the same problem about a year ago. I’d heard that writable Blu-ray disks are more durable that writable DVD disks. So I decided to buy an internal Blu-ray writer for archiving some old photos and software.

My original plan was to stick it in my tower case. But it was surprisingly expensive (compared to a regular DVD drive) so I decided it would be better to put it in an external enclosure so that I could share it with my laptop. The problem is that the enclosures were also surprisingly expensive, and there weren’t many options available.

So I eventually decided to buy a Power Over Esata (eSATAp) expansion card for my case and connect it that way.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dual-Port-SATA-to-Double-Power-Over-12V-ESATA-5V-Convert-Adapter-Expansion-Card/261985348200?epid=505697074&hash=item3cff8b2a68:g:w1IAAOSwN7BdU4at

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5V-12V-Dual-Power-eSATA-USB-Combo-to-2-5-3-5-22Pin-SATA-Hard-Disk-Cable-UK/192395293981?epid=1589120505&hash=item2ccba7351d:g:e1IAAOSwBkRaL6E6

I just stuck some rubber feet on the drive, and I now use it without an enclosure.

The great thing about eSATAp is that you can connect sata drives that draw too much power for a USB 3.0 connector to handle, and you still don’t need an external power brick.

Unfortunately, I still have to connect the drive to my laptop with a regular USB adapter and use an external power brick. But as I mostly use it with my tower, I can live with that.

[Grasshopper]

I need a decent sized case just to fit my hardware. My CPU cooler is about 5.5" cubed and my video card is a triple-slot behemoth. These components didn't used to be anywhere near this massive.

Indeed. It’s ironic that the components you fit in tower cases are getting bigger when you consider that the rest of the computing world is getting ever more miniaturised.

I'm pretty sure that most of the extra bulk is purely cosmetic. Last time I bought some RAM sticks they came encased in ridiculously ornate heatsinks despite the fact that RAM generally runs pretty cool. I’m not even sure if the heatsinks were attached to the chips.

[Howard_Casto]

The heat sinks are for overclocking.  Apparently it's expected of you to overclock your gear these days. 

Now let's get this in the right thread:

What do you guys think about this monitor?

https://www.newegg.com/lg-24bk430h-b-23-8-full-hd/p/0JC-000D-00610?sdtid=14052137&Description=24+inch+ips+monitor&cm_re=24_inch_ips_monitor-_-0JC-000D-00610-_-Product&nm_mc=AFC-RAN-COM&cm_mmc=AFC-RAN-COM&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-Slickdeals+LLC&AFFID=208164&AFFNAME=Slickdeals+LLC&ACRID=1&ASUBID=0f1e9274973911eaabc2aef906d31fd80INT&ASID=https%3A%2F%2Fslickdeals.net%2Ff%2F14052137-24-lg-24bk430h-b-1920x1080-ips-led-monitor-w-freesync-119-99%3Fsrc%3Dcatpagev2&ranMID=44583&ranEAID=208164&ranSiteID=lw9MynSeamY-RSLctTKeIE0iYVKOFSG9oA

It's a good price, but should I be going more towards a 4k screen?  I haven't even started looking yet so I don't know the pricing at all.  I'm think around $200-250 is my limit unless a really spectacular monitor presents itself or something. 

[fallacy]

I don't know why graphics cards keep getting half an inch bigger on literally every power increase. The first graphics cards were like a nic card size with no fans. Not sure what they are doing but apparently there is no way to micro-size any of it. In another 10 years we will need different size cases too put in your now 2 foot long cards.

They do eventually get these cards smaller and into laptops, I guess the timeline for that is just way behind the tec curve. Another reason why buying a laptop for gaming sucks.

[shponglefan]

The first graphics cards were like a nic card size with no fans. Not sure what they are doing but apparently there is no way to micro-size any of it. In another 10 years we will need different size cases too put in your now 2 foot long cards.

Oh, we've been there already. This is CGA graphics card circa 1981:

[Howard_Casto]

I remember those... makes me feel old.  From what I understand the reason things are getting bigger is the manufacturers have run up against some physical manufacturing limits.  That's why they keep throwing extra cores at the problem.... they can't make a single core much smaller. 

You get screwed when you buy a laptop for gaming, which is why I'm team tower all the way.  I don't understand why they can't throw an extra pcie slot in there and manufacture laptop graphics cards that fit in a... let's say 3.25" form factor, complete with heatsink or fan.  Since ssds are going towards the m 2 form factor now there should be extra room. 

[nitrogen_widget]

You could always do what I do and upgrade your existing desktop PC.

My PC actually dates from the late 90s. However, in reality, every single component apart from the beige case and a floppy drive I keep purely for reasons of nostalgia has been replaced multiple times.

Last time I did a major upgrade I only had to buy a new motherboard, processor, and RAM. I was able to reuse every other component apart from the graphics card. Unfortunately, it used an AGP slot which had been phased out. So, for a couple of years, I made do with the GPU built into the processor.

I'm running a $100 and some change "Modder" PC I bought off this site from someone selling lots of used PC's yrs ago. i5 i've upgraded to 16gb and expanded the storage.
I think I need to upgrade the bios in order to use a better video card, but right now it handles most games I play just fine.
Only updated ram because slicing 3d prints and editing them was torture.

[nitrogen_widget]

The first graphics cards were like a nic card size with no fans. Not sure what they are doing but apparently there is no way to micro-size any of it. In another 10 years we will need different size cases too put in your now 2 foot long cards.

Oh, we've been there already. This is CGA graphics card circa 1981:

I think I have some of those in a tote from a 386 in the basement.
Or was it the cpu family before that?
they were called VESA card right?
this is going back a long time.

you know, every time I come here and people start posting pics of tech from the past....it makes me realize I REALLY need to clean my basement.

[Howard_Casto]

The rest of my parts came in today.  I'm just waiting on the case.  Still gotta get a new monitor and I think I want to get some headphones as well. 

[pbj]

Headphones?  Nah.  Imma need you to do research on computer speakers and get back to me.

[Howard_Casto]

I've had my 2.1 system for years.  Has a good sub, doesn't take up a lot of space and sounds good.  The headphones are for my new ---uvula--- neighbor that can't seem to keep it down.  I need something with good noise cancelation. 

[Howard_Casto]

*sigh*  Looks like I might have gotten screwed out of case #2.  When I ordered it amazon said it was out of stock and was due to be restocked in a couple of days.  It's supposed to arrive Friday and it still hadn't shipped so I went to the listing and the dreaded "currently unavailable, we don't know when or if this item will be back in stock" message was there.  I'll wait until Friday, but odds are I'm cancelling and going on a wild goose chase yet again.  I think the fates are conspiring against me. 

[shponglefan]

I've had my 2.1 system for years.  Has a good sub, doesn't take up a lot of space and sounds good.  The headphones are for my new ---uvula--- neighbor that can't seem to keep it down.  I need something with good noise cancelation.

What you need is one of these bad boys. Fight fire with fire, I always say. 

[Howard_Casto]

Well they just shipped the case, so I guess amazon made a liar out of me.  As for the speakers.... yeah I thought about it, but the problem is this kid must be deaf or something to want to turn things up that loud and I suffer from migraines so I'd probably only make it worse for myself. 

So on to monitors:

I found these two in my email this morning:

https://slickdeals.net/f/14066273-28-lenovo-l28u-30-4k-uhd-ips-monitor-249?src=frontpage
https://slickdeals.net/f/14065394-acer-cb271hu-bmidprx-27-16-9-ips-monitor-free-shipping-219-99?src=jfy%7Crecombee%7C7632b4f9-c585-4c7c-892a-005eee99d09e

Honestly 4k (or even 2k) is probably too much as is the size, but a really good quality 1080p monitor seems to be around $200 anyway.  It might make sense to get something that'll have specs to grow with the times as I don't replace my monitors that often.  Opinions?

[shponglefan]

So on to monitors:

I found these two in my email this morning:

https://slickdeals.net/f/14066273-28-lenovo-l28u-30-4k-uhd-ips-monitor-249?src=frontpage
https://slickdeals.net/f/14065394-acer-cb271hu-bmidprx-27-16-9-ips-monitor-free-shipping-219-99?src=jfy%7Crecombee%7C7632b4f9-c585-4c7c-892a-005eee99d09e

Honestly 4k (or even 2k) is probably too much as is the size, but a really good quality 1080p monitor seems to be around $200 anyway.  It might make sense to get something that'll have specs to grow with the times as I don't replace my monitors that often.  Opinions?

Couldn't view those links (got 403 Forbidden errors for some reason).

IMHO, 4K is only really worth it if you're going to a larger size (e.g. 32" or above) and have a specific need for it, like gaming in 4K. For something in the 27/28" range, I'd probably stick with 1080p or at most 1440p in the form of a decent quality IPS LCD screen.

[Howard_Casto]

I'm still looking for a monitor.  Case finally came in today and after a legitimate four hours of routing cables to make it look pretty I'm up a running.  It'll be at least another day before I get all my junk transferred over and all my important apps re-installed.  I'll take pics or vid tonight, but I doubt you all want to see the mountain of cardboard boxes piled up all around me so I'll wait until I've cleaned up a little. 

[slickam]

Something I've used whenever I set up a new computer is https://ninite.com/ It builds an installer for every program you select from its list, which takes all the defaults for install location and things like that, but doesn't include extra junk like toolbars.

[Howard_Casto]

Eh I don't think that'd work for me.  Installing vb6 on windows 10... it's an adventure.  I'm getting it done.  Backing up and transferring email now.  I think I'm just going to throw this harddrive in the new pc as a secondary unit for the time being.... that'll make any transfers easy. 

[Howard_Casto]

I got everything buttoned up and threw the hdd from my old pc into the new one so I can transfer stuff at my leisure.  As for games I don't really have anything super taxing on hand so I threw Dirt Rally on there.  Yeah it's a 5 year old game, but the benckmark test showed it averaging 106 fps on ultra settings.  Mind you I'm using my old 1600x900 monitor so it's bound to take a dip at 1080p, but overall I'm satisfied with those results. 

I'll start seriously looking for a monitor now and maybe get a new UPS as my old one is flaking out. 

Btw I'm amazed... even web pages load faster so my poor pc must have been struggling.

[Howard_Casto]

So I'm still looking for a suitable monitor but I have everything installed and the way I like it.  Since every other post in the main forums ask about "how powerful a pc do I need to run X?" are there any tests you guys would like me to run in terms of benchmarking pc games or running emulators?  So far I've tried dirt rally, mortal kombat xl, and the new killer instinct and they've all ran great at maximum settings.  I also tried pcsx2 and it ran fine with outrun 2, which absolutely chugged on my old pc.  Gamecube emulation maybe?  Something hard to run in mame?

[pbj]

GAUNTLET LEGENDS

 

[opt2not]

Nobody cares about Gauntlet Legends. The art was ugly, the levels were weird and riddled with switchbacks and odd vertical movement. That game did not age well at all.

[Osirus23]

I play Gamecube games in Dolphin using a low-power i3 CPU with integrated graphics. I don't think it's much of a system-stresser anymore.

[pbj]

Nobody cares about Gauntlet Legends. The art was ugly, the levels were weird and riddled with switchbacks and odd vertical movement. That game did not age well at all.

I just liked the announcer and we went through a 10 year phase in MAME where it played 75% speed and people convinced themselves it was acceptable.

 

[Howard_Casto]

So I bought this monitor:

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/new-arrivals/L24q-30A19238QL023-8inch-Monitor-HDMI/p/65FBGCC1US?cid=us:sem|se|google|TFSM1Q12YF|nx_a_brand_all-products_dsa|all+products||b|10216376040|101580905986|dsa-763830032836|dsa|mixed&ef_id=Cj0KCQjwiYL3BRDVARIsAF9E4GfcHgN11UBXTBN1yI7_noQoxPKR7AH-EW4yb8oMpURLTA0gm8R1BlwaAthAEALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!4030!3!439355367067!b!!g!!!10216376040!101580905986&catargetid=120030930000049409&CAPCID=439355367067&catci=dsa-763830032836&agid=101580905986&cadevice=c&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiYL3BRDVARIsAF9E4GfcHgN11UBXTBN1yI7_noQoxPKR7AH-EW4yb8oMpURLTA0gm8R1BlwaAthAEALw_wcB

I think I paid 165 on rakuten and got a bunch of rakuten points or something as well.  I can't recommend it enough.... qhd, really good color accuracy, and a decent size and max refresh rate as well.  I thought my ancient hp2009 was a really good monitor but it became apparent when I ran some benchmarks with the new one that it suffered from some significant ghosting due to a higher response time.  Dirty Rally doesn't give me a headache to play now.  (Yay!)  So I got a qhd for photoshop and productivity, I didn't expect my games to actually run at qhd with a good framerate, but to my surprise it still averaged 60fps in both Dirty Rally and MKXL.  I was given the impression from my research that this was a middle of the road graphics card..... I wonder what people are using the high end cards for?

Anyway my saga is nearing and end.  I want to get a cheap rgb keybaord and mouse just for the heck of it and when I move over to the house I'm building a new desk and I'll post pics of the new setup.  Overall I'm pretty satisfied and it looks like I saved myself at least 700 bucks doing it myself. 

[Howard_Casto]

So I threw Forza Horizon 4 on there today... it's included with my game pass subscription so I figured why not.  Set the settings to high and turned the resolution all the way up..... it averaged 75 fps and never dipped below 60.  So I'm still trying to stump this thing.  Maybe now that I'm getting a little more free time I can setup a really demanding emulator or something.  I've gotta say... gaming wise I haven't really been pushing it.  Been playing Demon's Crush a lot and I just went through Blazing Chrome.  I probably still need to get a new keyboard and mouse but I haven't really seen anything I like and finding ambidextrous mice is a pain.