Can you make an analog thumbstick work for joystick?

[FormulaFox]

Hello everyone. I've searched the internet high and low for an answer to a question, and not found an answer, and in the process I found this forum and am hopeful I can at least be pointed the right way to find the info I seek.

I've made a few custom arcade cabinets - a Pi 4-powered 19-inch bartop, a Pi 3B+-powered 7-inch minibartop, and a modded Arcade1up cab using an x86 PC.

All of these have been done using simple plug-in things like a cheap USB fightstick(the 19-inch bartop) or actual arcade joysticks/buttons with USB encoders(the minibartop and the Arcade1up). My next project I find myself in a bit of a conundrum... It's intended to be a super-cheap VERTICAL minibartop with a 10-inch display. In order to keep the control panel from getting too tight, I plan to use smaller buttons than on the minibartop, and would like to use a smaller than standard joystick. An idea I had was to use an analog stick(like this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P7QBGD2/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza) instead of a standard joystick, but I don't know if it will work, or what I may need to make it work if it can.

Thing is, I have zero soldering skills. I need stuff that easily plugs together to make my stuff. The analog stick shown in the example has a five-pin connector that looks an awful lot like that same connectors as on the arcade joysticks I used previously, but I don't know if it would actually work if I just plugged it into a joystick plug on a USB encoder.

And so we come to the question: Can this work without soldering? Can I just plug one of those into a USB encoder and use it in place of a normal arcade joystick? Do I need another component to make this work? And if not, is there an alternative option to get a smaller joystick?

The build is to use an old Windows tablet, for the record - not a Pi.

[PL1]

I plan to use smaller buttons than on the minibartop, and would like to use a smaller than standard joystick. An idea I had was to use an analog stick(like this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P7QBGD2/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza) instead of a standard joystick, but I don't know if it will work, or what I may need to make it work if it can.

Thing is, I have zero soldering skills. I need stuff that easily plugs together to make my stuff. The analog stick shown in the example has a five-pin connector that looks an awful lot like that same connectors as on the arcade joysticks I used previously, but I don't know if it would actually work if I just plugged it into a joystick plug on a USB encoder.

And so we come to the question: Can this work without soldering? Can I just plug one of those into a USB encoder and use it in place of a normal arcade joystick? Do I need another component to make this work? And if not, is there an alternative option to get a smaller joystick?

1. Can you use that thumbstick without soldering?
- Yes.  Use Dupont jumpers to connect the thumbstick to the encoder.  F-F jumpers if the encoder has 0.1" male pins or F-M if the encoder has screw terminals.

2. What type of encoder do you need for an analog thumbstick?
- You need an analog gamepad encoder like the Ultimarc A-Pac or a hybrid analog encoder like the Ultimarc U-HID.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Analog_Encoders

3. Is that thumbstick the best choice?
- Probably not.
-- The short handle probably isn't as accurate as you'd like for analog games.
-- MAME can use analog stick inputs in place of microswitch stick inputs, but the throw may feel long for some games.
-- It will be hard to mount neatly in a control panel unless you can design and 3d print a mount.  (Didn't see anything suitable on Thingiverse.    )
---------------------------
Instead, you might want to consider the Happ subminiature stick here (more specs and details here) or something like the stick here.
- These 8-way microswitch sticks will work with the encoders you are already familiar with.   


Scott

[meyer980]

If you're not tied to that specific joystick, I've had very good luck with this on my miniature builds: https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Directions-Momentary-Monolever-Joystick/dp/B07KCNGVXS/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=240v+joystick&qid=1586573471&sr=8-4

It's very small, uses actual microswitches, and comes with 4, 8, and 2 way restrictor plates. Makes wiring super easy and has a decently long throw for the size, so plays the classic 80's vertical games pretty darn well for the circumstances.

You can find that same joystick all over the place on ebay. Search for 240v joystick. Good luck!

Edit: I see now that PL1 already linked my suggestions as one of his. As usual, he knows best!

[PL1]

I like your link better and you provided the effective search terms. (240v joystick)   

Just discovered that there is a top-fire version of this stick, too.
- Wonder how well it would work for a mini Battlezone build.




Scott

[meyer980]

I like your link better and you provided the effective search terms. (240v joystick)   

Just discovered that there is a top-fire version of this stick, too.
- Wonder how well it would work for a mini Battlezone build.




Scott

Nice find! Could be useful for lots of miniature applications, actually. You've likely already seen it, but someone posted a thread not long ago linking to a guy who modifies these sticks into rotary sticks with pushbutton - great for games like Nintendo's Sheriff. Kind of expensive though, $100 on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/FRONT-LINE-ARCADE-ROTARY-SWITCH-IN-MINIATURE/164148979716

[PL1]

You've likely already seen it, but someone posted a thread not long ago linking to a guy who modifies these sticks into rotary sticks with pushbutton - great for games like Nintendo's Sheriff. Kind of expensive though, $100 on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/FRONT-LINE-ARCADE-ROTARY-SWITCH-IN-MINIATURE/164148979716

Unfortunately, there are only six games that use that type of controller.

- Front Line
- The Tin Star
- Wild Western
- Sheriff (Nintendo)
- Bandido (Exidy -- licensed re-release of Sheriff)
- Western Gun Part II (Taito -- licensed re-release of Sheriff)

With a dual-stick setup you can play those games Robotron-style by also mapping all four right stick directional switches to fire.  i.e. Right stick down  = aim down + fire.

That said, I doubt OP will have enough room on his panel for either a mini Taito Aim-n-Fire or a dual-stick setup. [/thread derail]


Scott

[FormulaFox]

Sorry for delays in reply. Got REAL busy all of a sudden.

1. Can you use that thumbstick without soldering?
- Yes.  Use Dupont jumpers to connect the thumbstick to the encoder.  F-F jumpers if the encoder has 0.1" male pins or F-M if the encoder has screw terminals.

To be clear, you're talking about this? https://www.amazon.com/Multicolored-Breadboard-Dupont-Jumper-Wires/dp/B073X7P6N2

2. What type of encoder do you need for an analog thumbstick?
- You need an analog gamepad encoder like the Ultimarc A-Pac or a hybrid analog encoder like the Ultimarc U-HID.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Analog_Encoders

Sadly this seems to go against the "keep it cheap" aspect of this project...

3. Is that thumbstick the best choice?
- Probably not.
-- The short handle probably isn't as accurate as you'd like for analog games.
-- MAME can use analog stick inputs in place of microswitch stick inputs, but the throw may feel long for some games.
-- It will be hard to mount neatly in a control panel unless you can design and 3d print a mount.  (Didn't see anything suitable on Thingiverse.    )

Well, when I say best, I'm not talking about the most overall ideal piece of kit, I meant amongst these kinds of small analog sticks. I'll be making my own control panel so I can drill the necessary mounts as needed, and I've got an idea for dealing with the issues of how it feels - I'm actually not bothered by the throw being a bit on the logner side, but by modifying a stick cap to hold one of my balltops the overall feel should be better.

Instead, you might want to consider the Happ subminiature stick here (more specs and details here) or something like the stick here.
- These 8-way microswitch sticks will work with the encoders you are already familiar with.   


Scott

I'll keep this in mind - they certainly looks suitable.

[PL1]

1. Can you use that thumbstick without soldering?
- Yes.  Use Dupont jumpers to connect the thumbstick to the encoder.  F-F jumpers if the encoder has 0.1" male pins or F-M if the encoder has screw terminals.

To be clear, you're talking about this? https://www.amazon.com/Multicolored-Breadboard-Dupont-Jumper-Wires/dp/B073X7P6N2

Yes.

2. What type of encoder do you need for an analog thumbstick?
- You need an analog gamepad encoder like the Ultimarc A-Pac or a hybrid analog encoder like the Ultimarc U-HID.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Analog_Encoders

Sadly this seems to go against the "keep it cheap" aspect of this project...

If you learn how to solder, you can use a $5 Arduino Pro Micro with the KADE miniArcade 2.0 firmware.   

3. Is that thumbstick the best choice?
- Probably not.
-- The short handle probably isn't as accurate as you'd like for analog games.
-- MAME can use analog stick inputs in place of microswitch stick inputs, but the throw may feel long for some games.
-- It will be hard to mount neatly in a control panel unless you can design and 3d print a mount.  (Didn't see anything suitable on Thingiverse.    )

Well, when I say best, I'm not talking about the most overall ideal piece of kit, I meant amongst these kinds of small analog sticks. I'll be making my own control panel so I can drill the necessary mounts as needed, and I've got an idea for dealing with the issues of how it feels - I'm actually not bothered by the throw being a bit on the logner side, but by modifying a stick cap to hold one of my balltops the overall feel should be better.

You're planning on mounting a regular balltop on top of a thumbstick cap?   

If you have access to a 3d printer, there are some thumbstick shaft replacements/extensions on Thingiverse that would probably work well or it's easy to custom design one in OpenSCAD.


Scott

[FormulaFox]

If you learn how to solder, you can use a $5 Arduino Pro Micro with the KADE miniArcade 2.0 firmware.   

Believe me, I'd love to learn some soldering skills - so many things I want to do could be done so easily if I did... Unfortunately I suffer from some VERY unsteady hands and am simply not capable of the levels of precision needed for this sort of soldering. I'm sure I could learn some level of helpful soldering, but every time I look into the stuff I want to do it turns out to be too precise for me to handle... Drives me nuts sometimes, but everyone has some shortcoming they have to deal with.

You're planning on mounting a regular balltop on top of a thumbstick cap?   

Sort of - I'd be making some alterations to make it more suitable - wouldn't just be gluing it to the top of the stick cap.

If you have access to a 3d printer, there are some thumbstick shaft replacements/extensions on Thingiverse that would probably work well or it's easy to custom design one in OpenSCAD.


Scott

I'll keep that in my project notes - I already have a balltop(two in fact, as well as two bat tops - spare parts from previous arcade builds), and I'm always keen on repurposing stuff I've already got, but I always make sure to look into all options.

[SORHP]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,120216.0.html

[PL1]

Unfortunately I suffer from some VERY unsteady hands and am simply not capable of the levels of precision needed for this sort of soldering.

Some Arduino Micro boards come with pins already soldered on.

You can plug it into a 170 point breadboard (left) or a 400 point breadboard (right) and connect the jumpers to the breadboard.   
- With the 400 point, you won't need to make a daisy-chain ground, just connect all of the grounds to the "-" rail.




Scott

[FormulaFox]

Unfortunately I suffer from some VERY unsteady hands and am simply not capable of the levels of precision needed for this sort of soldering.

Some Arduino Micro boards come with pins already soldered on.

You can plug it into a 170 point breadboard (left) or a 400 point breadboard (right) and connect the jumpers to the breadboard.   
- With the 400 point, you won't need to make a daisy-chain ground, just connect all of the grounds to the "-" rail.




Scott

Thanks. This too has gone in the file for the project. I'm hoping to start this before too long, but obviously in the current state of the world I can't rush into things.