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Author Topic: PVM and Super resolutions  (Read 381 times)

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daifuku74

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PVM and Super resolutions
« on: March 29, 2020, 04:27:17 pm »
Hello everyone, I hope this post is in the right section.

I just made a little PC build with Win 7 64, Radeon 4350 and CRTemuDrivers, UMSA for SCART, and a PVM 1440QM.
I use Retroarch with CRTswitchres for now.
It works overall for CPS1, CPS2, most arcade stuff, but for somes games (R-Type series I'm looking at you), I don't have the correct refresh (it launches at 60Hz) (this is inside MAME 2016 through Retroarch).

The R-Types ares supposed to have a refresh of 55Hz, and it seems I cannot have them properly.
When I look at ArcadeOSD, the 55Hz modes are listed for standard and super resolutions (for R-Type I look at 256p resolutions), but when I enter them,
the screen will "roll" vertically.
I tried to make a really complete user list of modelines, but it won't change anyway.
First, I'm not sure which preset I should go with in VMMaker, generic_15? arcade_15? I tried both but that I do not notice the changes.

At some point in the past (I can't recall what I did differently), I had an OSD notification of the correct "55Hz" when launching R-Type, but I'm not sure
if I can trust it, because the background was kind of shaking in a unusual way, like an unwanted parallax effect on every part of the scene.

I did not dive into the GroovyMAME setup yet, except the basic step of selecting the GM exe in VMMaker.
I just tried anyway to launch R-Type from GM, it seems to launch the correct 55Hz, but the rolling along with it.

Am I doing something wrong please?
Or is my PVM just unable to get this refresh in a stable way at all?

Thank you very much

Alaska

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Re: PVM and Super resolutions
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2020, 04:14:09 pm »
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 04:23:06 pm by Alaska »

daifuku74

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Re: PVM and Super resolutions
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2020, 02:26:26 am »
Thank you.
Yes I found those threads.
My modelines are declared as static.
I will try to find a way to tweak geometry on those "rolling" resolutions to see if I can stabilize, and test with a different CRT.
If in the end it's physically impossible to get such refresh with this PVM, I can live with it and accept it, but if there's a way I'd like to find out how.

Zebidee

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Re: PVM and Super resolutions
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2020, 07:17:29 am »
It really all comes down to your monitor.ini presets, which you can adjust through VMM. There is a way to get the best out of your PVM, and it involves using two crt_range values in your monitor.ini file, to something like this:

monitor "SonyProf", "PAL/NTSC Sony Profeel", "4:3"
        crt_range0 15300-16200, 49.50-51.20, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576
        crt_range1 15300-16200, 59.95-62.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 192, 248, 448, 480

This will choose 60hz range (crt_range1) modes for any modes up to 248 vertical lines, but default to 50hz range (crt_range0) for anyhing more (up to 288 vertical lines). I've bolded the relevant numbers in the modelines above because it is the key to making this work.

Every monitor is different, but those ranges are what I use with my Sony Profeel 20" PVM. Your PVM has a "QM" in the model number, which means it similarly was made for the antipodes (southern places like Australia), and also means it most likely/should take both PAL-like modes (~50hz) and NTSC-like modes (~60hz). Those crt_range values I gave are pretty trim because the Profeel get's fussy if you go too far away from 50 and 60hz. However, it is very forgiving for low horizontal frequencies, which is why I have given it a low range (15300) so I can get useful modes like 768x512@51hz easily (gives you a few extra vertical lines in windows that are really useful).

I also have a Sony 27" PVM(QM) that has a dead-spot around 55hz, but not as big as the Profeel's. I haven't done Groovymame with it yet though so sorry no crt_ranges for that.

Now, Obviously it isn't ideal for games like R-type that like 55hz, but Groovymame will do it's very best to make it seamless via software, CPU grunt and even skipping frames according to your monitor/TV's constraints. And Groovymame's best is pretty good.

If you want to find your own monitor's ranges through trial-and-error, try starting with these ranges:

   crt_range0 15300-16200, 49.50-55.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576
   crt_range1 15300-16200, 55.01-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 192, 248, 448, 480

Then test the various modes with ArcadeOSD. For the ones that don't work, note their vertical (in italics), and to lesser extent horizontal (bold) frequencies and trim the ranges accordingly in your monitor.ini. In VMM, be sure to click the box to update mame.ini. Then generate modes again/install/restart and try again, rinse recycle repeat, until you are happy with the ranges.

Most TVs that do both 50 and 60hz modes will have a dead range around 55hz. Not always: my Loewe Calida Blackline 100hz 26" in my vertical games cab handles 55hz well, but that has other issues.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 07:19:25 am by Zebidee »
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daifuku74

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Re: PVM and Super resolutions
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2020, 03:35:03 pm »
That's enlightening! Thank you for the information Zebidee.
Yes I'm in France and this is a PAL region.
I will try and tweak with your method.
About the lines with all the values, what represent each of the listed values please?
Thank you for this complete answer  :applaud:

Alaska

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Re: PVM and Super resolutions
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2020, 04:24:25 pm »
@Zebidee killer response!
Daifuku - there is some more detail at the link below.
http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=290 F.1) Setting the best monitor specs

Zebidee

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Re: PVM and Super resolutions
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2020, 12:49:29 am »
The Groovymame branch of this forum is the best place to ask further questions:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/board,52.0.html

There is a "monitor presets" thread stickied there that is worth reading, but it doesn't properly address the issue of TVs that don't sync well in zones between 50 and 60hz.

Another thread worth reading is this one on getting Groovymame working properly on a SCART TV, because the discussion is largely about the same issues we have with dual mode PAL/NTSC 50/60hz, and the use of two CRT_range presets to get around the dead spot problem. Except in this case it is Calamity himself commenting on the issue (with Paradroid, another forum old-timer):
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,116014.0.html

FWIW, I'd like to see this stuff about multiple crt_range presets for TVs/PVMs etc. in the stickied monitor presets thread, maybe with some additional insights from Calamity.






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