javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy

[javeryh]

The 'menu' text is mostly redundant as you have that already on your screen menu. I would make that wall of text an instruction card at the bottom of the bezel as you look mostly at the screen, not at the CP.

yeah... I was thinking about getting rid of the instructions in the front end because I kind of like how they look on the CP.  Most of these old cabinets seem to have instructions somewhere.  I'm not married to anything though so I'll keep playing around.  Here's my latest attempt.  I do not like the "arrows" around the spinner.  I tried matching the arrows on the joystick ring but something doesn't look quite right.  I think the button rings look MUCH better and I like the graphic around the joystick... I think.



I also like the white stripes on the pic you posted and was thinking of running something similar through the buttons (vertically).  I need to keep iterating on this.  Thanks for the feedback!

[javeryh]

OK... slowly getting there.

This first version shows a slightly revamped instruction card.  I think it looks a little more uniform/less busy this way.



Something about the symmetry was bugging me so I decided to center the 3 groups of controls over the instruction card and landed here:



This is much more visually pleasing BUT (and this is important) I am not sure the functionality remains the same.  The centered joystick means that 80% of the time, the player will be standing to the right of center to play.  Also, the action buttons might now be too close to the Pause button - I don't want that to be hit by mistake (it would have to be a pretty big mistake but still possible I guess).

Any thoughts?

[Zebidee]

I'd like to echo yamatetsu's comments about removing the menu text from control panel itself - you should have enough space for instructions on the bezel area between the screen and control panel.

There is a beauty in elegant simplicity.

[javeryh]

I'd like to echo yamatetsu's comments about removing the menu text from control panel itself - you should have enough space for instructions on the bezel area between the screen and control panel.

There is a beauty in elegant simplicity.

Thanks.  I made some revisions to the spinner outline:



And here is the same layout with no instructions.



I should note that there will be no room on the bezel around the monitor for instructions, which is why I wanted to put something on the CP itself.  Also, the volcano buttons will light up red - and they will be the only red accent on the CP without the instructions.  I'm sure I could add something else but I kind of liked how your eye was drawn to the instruction headers.

That said, I do agree that simple can be the most elegant when it comes to design... but too plain is boring too...   

[Mike A]

Are you only playing arcade games on this?

If so a pause button is not necessary.

[javeryh]

Are you only playing arcade games on this?

If so a pause button is not necessary.

Arcade only!  But then I'd need an exit button and yeah I could make it so P1+P2=Exit but I hang out with idiots... drunk idiots.  I want it to be simple but yeah, I totally get how losing that Pause button might look better.

[Jimbo]

I'd like to echo yamatetsu's comments about removing the menu text from control panel itself - you should have enough space for instructions on the bezel area between the screen and control panel.

There is a beauty in elegant simplicity.

Another vote here for no instructions.  I think I said this before too about the frontend.  Honestly, it's so simple to pick games, anyone will get how to do it within seconds.  Just map the joystick and spinner to scroll through the list, then map it so that any button starts a game.  Keep it nice and clean looking is my suggestion.  Instructions are just clutter that nobody will read.  C'mon Jav, you can make this thing look sooooo cool and stylish without all that unneeded text! 

Also, yeah... I'd say lose the 'pause', but a dedicated 'exit game' button is a good idea.   I wouldn't configure any shifted button functionality, because in my experience, you either have to tell everyone how to use it, or people will keep pressing the combo accidentally when hammering buttons.

[Arroyo]

I’m going to go against the grain and say keep the pause.  Have it double as an exit button with a long hold.  If you are getting comfortable with RocketLauncher, then you’ll know you can double up the button functionality.  Also in Pause in RocketLauncher you can get all kinds of cool things, like flyers of the game, cabinet photos, control panel pics, moves list for fighting games (not applicable for this build)....

For aesthetics, I agree you don’t need a lot of instructions, especially with a simple control panel.  I also don’t know about the rectangle around the joystick, have you tried it without it?

Looking good buddy, keep going!

[javeryh]

Another vote here for no instructions.  I think I said this before too about the frontend.  Honestly, it's so simple to pick games, anyone will get how to do it within seconds.  Just map the joystick and spinner to scroll through the list, then map it so that any button starts a game.  Keep it nice and clean looking is my suggestion.  Instructions are just clutter that nobody will read.  C'mon Jav, you can make this thing look sooooo cool and stylish without all that unneeded text! 

Also, yeah... I'd say lose the 'pause', but a dedicated 'exit game' button is a good idea.   I wouldn't configure any shifted button functionality, because in my experience, you either have to tell everyone how to use it, or people will keep pressing the combo accidentally when hammering buttons.

Hmmm... I'm starting to sense a theme...     I get that the instructions aren't "needed" in the strictest sense.  It will be easy to figure out for sure.  However, I kind of like the way they look and without them the entire thing looks super boring to me - not elegant/stylish.  Also, won't no red make the volcano buttons kind of stick out in a weird way?  Maybe it's just me.  I have a couple more ideas to play around with though without the instructions.  Stay tuned.

I’m going to go against the grain and say keep the pause.  Have it double as an exit button with a long hold.  If you are getting comfortable with RocketLauncher, then you’ll know you can double up the button functionality.  Also in Pause in RocketLauncher you can get all kinds of cool things, like flyers of the game, cabinet photos, control panel pics, moves list for fighting games (not applicable for this build)....

For aesthetics, I agree you don’t need a lot of instructions, especially with a simple control panel.  I also don’t know about the rectangle around the joystick, have you tried it without it?

Looking good buddy, keep going!

Thanks - My plan was to do exactly what you described.  Push to pause and long hold to exit.  I don't want push to exit on the panel.  Too easy to hit it by mistake.  I'm really torn on the art though - I like simple but I also really like the way Blip came out and it had instructions.

The rectangle around the joystick was just the outline for the mounting plate.  Here it is without it:



I still need to refine my Inkscape skills - I really don't know how to do much.  Making shapes is not intuitive and while joining shapes is easy, lining them up exactly is super hard.  I'm sure I just need to dive in a little deeper and I'm pretty pleased with my progress in just 2 days of messing around...

[wp34]

Hmmm... I'm starting to sense a theme...     I get that the instructions aren't "needed" in the strictest sense.  It will be easy to figure out for sure.  However, I kind of like the way they look and without them the entire thing looks super boring to me - not elegant/stylish.  Also, won't no red make the volcano buttons kind of stick out in a weird way?  Maybe it's just me.  I have a couple more ideas to play around with though without the instructions.  Stay tuned.

I agree the instructions probably are not needed but they look great and give your CP a more authentic look.  Original games had instructions on them.

I’m going to go against the grain and say keep the pause.  Have it double as an exit button with a long hold. 

+1 on the Pause.  I'm actually going to convert my coin-up button to a pause as there have been many times I've wanted to use one.  Especially now that I'm listening to vinyl records while I play. 

[yamatetsu]

This is much more visually pleasing BUT (and this is important) I am not sure the functionality remains the same.  The centered joystick means that 80% of the time, the player will be standing to the right of center to play.

That shouldn't even be a consideration. You don't want to have something that looks good but has ---smurfy--- controls. Functionality > art.

[Zebidee]

+1 for pause button here. So long as it is away from the main hand/action area (which it is).

[Jimbo]

Yeah the reason I said no pause, is that they didn't exist on original cabs.  You're trying to make this look like an original cab (hence wanting instructions on there etc) and doing a bloody good job of it, so to me this goes against that idea...

However... I understand the modern need to be able to pause a game.  What I did at work (and at home/videotron bartop) was a half-way house.  I didn't want it on the CP as it just didn't look right.  People just paused the game and walked off and forgot about it, or they'd pause it because it was too noisy etc, which was no good for the CRT.   In the end I put the pause button on the back of the cab.  Reachable, but you have to know it's there.  i.e. for me pause should only be used in an emergency (e.g. you're on a really good score and someone calls "dinner's ready!").     I'd say keep it off the CP if you can, it'll hardly ever be used.

With the instructions, I get the reason for it to be on the CP - and if you do, I'd definitely recommend removing them from the frontend theme completely.  Otherwise you'll have instructions overload.    

[bperkins01]

Maybe this applies - I didn't want a bunch of control buttons..   I dual purposed my exit and pause button..  in a game - if you hit the exit button - it pauses..  If you press and hold the button for 3 seconds.. it then exits the game (no accidental exits) ..  outside of a game its just the escape key..

I used autohotkey to create the function..  My buttons also have RGB so the color changes from yellow to red signaling the exit

happy to share it if you like.

[Mike A]

I am with Jimbo on this.

You have spent a lot of time and energy on making this look like it belongs in an arcade. I would say no pause button.

When I am playing arcade games it is just part of the experience if I have to leave the machine in the middle of a game.

Any scores you get are tainted if you are using a pause button.

If you are playing console games that is different. They had a pause button.

[javeryh]

I agree the instructions probably are not needed but they look great and give your CP a more authentic look.  Original games had instructions on them.

This is what I'm thinking currently.  Still not 100% but I like the CP with them better than without right now.

That shouldn't even be a consideration. You don't want to have something that looks good but has ---smurfy--- controls. Functionality > art.

Agreed.  In this case I don't think I'm really giving up functionality by centering the joystick.  Lots old cabinets did this.  What do you think?

+1 for pause button here. So long as it is away from the main hand/action area (which it is).

I think I've come up with a good compromise...

Yeah the reason I said no pause, is that they didn't exist on original cabs.  You're trying to make this look like an original cab (hence wanting instructions on there etc) and doing a bloody good job of it, so to me this goes against that idea...

However... I understand the modern need to be able to pause a game.  What I did at work (and at home/videotron bartop) was a half-way house.  I didn't want it on the CP as it just didn't look right.  People just paused the game and walked off and forgot about it, or they'd pause it because it was too noisy etc, which was no good for the CRT.   In the end I put the pause button on the back of the cab.  Reachable, but you have to know it's there.  i.e. for me pause should only be used in an emergency (e.g. you're on a really good score and someone calls "dinner's ready!").     I'd say keep it off the CP if you can, it'll hardly ever be used.

With the instructions, I get the reason for it to be on the CP - and if you do, I'd definitely recommend removing them from the frontend theme completely.  Otherwise you'll have instructions overload.    

Thanks.  I actually agree in principal about no pause button - it's not needed at all.  However, what I do need is an Exit button... no way around it so this is why I am going to double them up.  My "compromise" is that I will no longer label the button as "Pause" - it will kind of be a hidden feature.  Instead the button will be "Hold for 5 seconds to Exit" (not labeled like that - the button will not have any label).  So if you want to exit you hold it down but if you don't and just press it - hey neat it paused.

I will definitely remove the instructions from the front end layout if I go with instructions on the CP - I completely agree I do not want instructions overload!

Maybe this applies - I didn't want a bunch of control buttons..   I dual purposed my exit and pause button..  in a game - if you hit the exit button - it pauses..  If you press and hold the button for 3 seconds.. it then exits the game (no accidental exits) ..  outside of a game its just the escape key..

I used autohotkey to create the function..  My buttons also have RGB so the color changes from yellow to red signaling the exit

happy to share it if you like.

Thanks!!  This is definitely been the plan and any help would be appreciated.  Arroyo said that RocketLauncher has this feature built in (I haven't tried setting it up yet).  I was always under the impression I'd have to figure out an AHK script... which would not be easy for me.  If you've got a file I'd love to see it.   

I would say no pause button.

When I am playing arcade games it is just part of the experience if I have to leave the machine in the middle of a game.

Any scores you get are tainted if you are using a pause button.

Yup.  I think most everyone agrees no pause button but like I said I need an Exit button so I am going to use it for that.  I'm also resizing it down to 24mm so it will be even less likely to be pressed and it can be a little more out of the way.

Thanks everyone - I really appreciate the feedback.  Helps me work through stuff.

[javeryh]

Oh yeah... here's the latest draft (click for full resolution). 



I extended the "canvas" so that it will print larger than needed instead of having to be super exact I can just cut it back.  I increased the font on the instructions to make it slightly more legible (13 to 14 point), fixed the borders so that they are (mostly) the same thickness) and deleted the "Pause" label.  The instructions changed slightly to accommodate the change - instead of "Hold PAUSE button for 5 seconds to return to menu" it now reads, "Hold BLACK button for 5 seconds to EXIT to menu".

I tried deleting the instructions and adding some white racing stripes and some other ideas I had but ended up hating it.  One other thing I'm not certain about is the front edge.  Originally I was going to round it over so the CP art would round over as well but I can also keep it square and add t-molding across the front.  Leaning towards round over but just putting different options out there for me to stress over haha.

Here is where I've settled on the controls:

• ServoStik from Ultimarc
• SpinTrak from Ultimarc
• 3 white GoldLeaf bushbuttons from Ultimarc
• 1 24mm black Seimitsu pushbutton from Focus Attack
• 2 volcano buttons with red LED from Arcadeshop
• iPac2 from Ultimarc

So much for my "budget"!

[jennifer]

 

[J_K_M_A_N]

I am not sure if that font just makes the X look like an H or if you accidentally put EHIT. If it is the font, that is kind of a bummer. I wonder if you could make that one letter look more X like by just drawing it instead of using the font. 

Edit: I see now it is SLIGHTLY indented to be an X but with the font that small, it is tough to see it as an X. 

J_K_M_A_N

[javeryh]

I am not sure if that font just makes the X look like an H or if you accidentally put EHIT. If it is the font, that is kind of a bummer. I wonder if you could make that one letter look more X like by just drawing it instead of using the font. 

Edit: I see now it is SLIGHTLY indented to be an X but with the font that small, it is tough to see it as an X. 

J_K_M_A_N

Dammit.  I thought the exact same thing.   

It's definitely an "X" and looks the same upper or lowercase.  I'll fix it.

EDIT: fixed.

[Zebidee]

Idea! Make your pause:exit button black (on black background). I deliberately choose that for mine so that they don’t stand out. Players magically just forget about it! Amazing effect really.


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[javeryh]

Idea! Make your pause:exit button black (on black background). I deliberately choose that for mine so that they don’t stand out. Players magically just forget about it! Amazing effect really.

That's the plan!  Black 24mm button with black bezel and no CP art oulines or anything.  Black on black to try and kind of hide it...

[javeryh]

A little more tweaking (click to enlarge).  This time I redrew everything with a 1 mm gray border to tie into the gray font.  It's subtle but looks a little better to me... but I could be staring at this way too long for all I know.

[Jimbo]

Looking good

Pressing start 1 to start a game would annoy the heck out of me though.  My hands would already be on the joystick and 3 buttons ready to play something as soon as I step up to the cab, and also as soon as I exit a game. So why not have player button 1 start the game so you don't have to keep moving your hand over?  Or even better, let any button start the game.

You could also let the spinner browse the list of games.

[javeryh]

Looking good

Pressing start 1 to start a game would annoy the heck out of me though.  My hands would already be on the joystick and 3 buttons ready to play something as soon as I step up to the cab, and also as soon as I exit a game. So why not have player button 1 start the game so you don't have to keep moving your hand over?  Or even better, let any button start the game.

You could also let the spinner browse the list of games.

Great ideas.  I wonder if I should change the font to say "Press ANY BUTTON" to start game" or keep it the same and just set it up so any button starts a game. 

[J_K_M_A_N]

"RETURN" is a good compromise. Nice fix. 

J_K_M_A_N

[Zebidee]

Love your work.

I’d tighten-up the instructions a bit. By that I mean using less words to say same thing.

By which I mean just “UP/DOWN select game” is enough, for example

“LEFT/RIGHT skip letter” etc. and so on

Less is more


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[yamatetsu]

That shouldn't even be a consideration. You don't want to have something that looks good but has ---smurfy--- controls. Functionality > art.

Agreed.  In this case I don't think I'm really giving up functionality by centering the joystick.  Lots old cabinets did this.  What do you think?

I think that you're doing this a bit backwards. Ask yourself some questions: Who is going to use the cab the most? Which controls are going to be used the most? The answers are probably going to be I am, joystick, buttons. So, make a CP mockup, cardboard or scrap wood, put it on the cab. Stand in front of the cab, put your hands where you want the controls to be, mark those positions. Measure the positions, transfer those measurements to your CP art. Now you have some fixed points to design your art around. If you cut holes in the mockup, you can even put the controls into it, do a test print of the CP art, apply it to the mockup and see how it will look IRL.
Oh, and you also will be able to see how it ties in with the rest of the cab.

I increased the font on the instructions to make it slightly more legible (13 to 14 point)

That's why I would use a vector graphics program. In CorelDraw, you type in your text and then just resize it to any size you want.

[Jimbo]

Great ideas.  I wonder if I should change the font to say "Press ANY BUTTON" to start game" or keep it the same and just set it up so any button starts a game. 

I don't think it matters what you put in the instructions coz nobody's gunna read'em!   


Also... I reckon you'll get bored waiting for 5 seconds every time you want to exit a game. You'll be counting it in your head.  Personally I'd set it to 2 seconds, or 3 seconds max.  Time is money my friend!     OR... ditch the pause and just exit immediately! 

[javeryh]

"RETURN" is a good compromise. Nice fix. 

J_K_M_A_N

Thanks.  I think it works.  Although I did end up staring at the screen for 30 minutes with the words "Hold" and "RETURN" also colored red to link the actions but ultimately decided it didn't look right.  I don't know how people do graphic design for a living when the possibilities are literally endless.

Love your work.

I’d tighten-up the instructions a bit. By that I mean using less words to say same thing.

By which I mean just “UP/DOWN select game” is enough, for example

“LEFT/RIGHT skip letter” etc. and so on

Less is more

I agree less is more - I cleaned up a few lines of text to make it read a little better.

I think that you're doing this a bit backwards. Ask yourself some questions: Who is going to use the cab the most? Which controls are going to be used the most? The answers are probably going to be I am, joystick, buttons. So, make a CP mockup, cardboard or scrap wood, put it on the cab. Stand in front of the cab, put your hands where you want the controls to be, mark those positions. Measure the positions, transfer those measurements to your CP art. Now you have some fixed points to design your art around. If you cut holes in the mockup, you can even put the controls into it, do a test print of the CP art, apply it to the mockup and see how it will look IRL.

Oh, and you also will be able to see how it ties in with the rest of the cab.

I am going to do this today.  I have a piece of scrap for the CP so I will play around with it.  I agree that functionality is more important than looks BUT in this case I am willing to sacrifice 5% functionality to make it look a lot better if that is the way it works out.  My end goal is to have a functioning piece of art not necessarily a functioning arcade cabinet if that makes any sense at all.  Since this will be going in my house permanently and I will be looking at it a lot more than I will be playing it I'm OK with 95% functionality.  There is a fine line though - I do not want it to be even 1% non-functional.  I know I'm not explaining this correctly... 

This might not matter because I've mocked up the controls without the spinner and I like how it looks and it's 100% functional.  The spinner was always a "nice to have" with only 18" to work with although this CP is beautiful and it's only 19-5/8" with a spinner, joystick, 3 buttons and a 2.25" trackball!

That's why I would use a vector graphics program. In CorelDraw, you type in your text and then just resize it to any size you want.

Inkscape is a vector program - If you don't change the type to an object you can change the font however you want but if you make it an object you can scale it up or down in size (but then I'm not sure how to get the rest of the font to scale to the same size doing it that way).  I'm still learning.  It's a really cool program.

I don't think it matters what you put in the instructions coz nobody's gunna read'em!   


Also... I reckon you'll get bored waiting for 5 seconds every time you want to exit a game. You'll be counting it in your head.  Personally I'd set it to 2 seconds, or 3 seconds max.  Time is money my friend!     OR... ditch the pause and just exit immediately! 

LOL this is so true.  I am taking your advice and I got rid of the "5 second" concept.  So now it basically says "Hold to exit".  You are right - 3 seconds is probably fine so now I can set it up to work however I want and I'm not bound to any set time.

Thanks everyone!  I work a lot better in small steps refining everything as I go and all of this advice/criticism helps me work it through.  I am jealous of a lot of you who just post the finished product and it is perfect (although I'm sure there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that gets omitted).   

[javeryh]

OK... I'm very very close... I think.  I tweaked the instructions a bit based on some comments and I decided to mock up what it would look like with a different control set up.  Pretty sure the choice is between the first and second layout.  I wish I could go to the office to print this stuff out!









Today I'm going to finally cut the blank for the control panel and then take some measurements for the monitor glass and place some orders.

[javeryh]

I like the way both of these layouts feel.  They aren't lined up perfectly but good enough to confirm the layouts work.  Font is a good size too.  So the decision comes down to whether I need a spinner (or 2.25" trackball) or not.  I honestly don't know and don't think I can make a "wrong" decision.  Originally, I was not planning on anything more than the joystick and 3 buttons. If you look at the very first post in the thread at my goals for the project, I've checked off all the boxes without adding a spinner/trackball (and WITH the instruction card!). 

The joystick/button only layout definitely feels better because you can stand dead center and play.  Also, less clutter on the panel.  So I'm leaning that way.  Whatever I build next will just have to include a spinner and trackball - I haven't built an "all-in-one" cab yet and it's probably time but that's for another day.

What do you think? 

[yamatetsu]

One other thing I'm not certain about is the front edge.  Originally I was going to round it over so the CP art would round over as well but I can also keep it square and add t-molding across the front.  Leaning towards round over but just putting different options out there for me to stress over haha.

I'd do it square and add t-molding because the CP won't have the same texture as your black paint and it probably won't be the exact tone of black, either. So you can use the t-molding as a divider. Also, you can let the CP art go over the edge and tuck it behind the t-molding.

[Zebidee]

Rounding off the cp will look lots better than T-molding


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[javeryh]

I'd do it square and add t-molding because the CP won't have the same texture as your black paint and it probably won't be the exact tone of black, either. So you can use the t-molding as a divider. Also, you can let the CP art go over the edge and tuck it behind the t-molding.

Rounding off the cp will look lots better than T-molding

I hate you guys.   

I don't care much about the blacks not matching but I was leaning towards the round over because of wrist comfort but the t-molding is a nice divider.  Hmmm...

What about the spinner vs. no spinner?

In other news... this thing actually works!



EDIT: I need to adjust the picture on the monitor (move to the left and expand the field) but the settings board isn't responsive.  I am worried I damaged it during my tear down.  The green LED isn't coming on and I cannot access any settings in the monitor's menu.  Any help would be great.

[Zebidee]

Blacks not matching.... not really going to be an issue. You won't notice, especially with other art and when you have a screen and marquee on. One of the great things about black is that it matches everything then blends into the background so everything else stands out.

IMO T-molding is great for sides, but at that CP edge will make your cab look cheap - it will also come away easily, collect dirt, players may tend to pick at the edge. It might also tend to cut into your wrist/fingers, although your CP angle may minimise that. Never seen an arcade cab done like that so will look inauthentic too.

Love the active marquee   Wish I knew how to do that easily, must put it on my arcade cab bucket-list

[leapinlew]

Coming along great! Remember when an active marquee was a wish list item? Crazy. Good job.

[Zebidee]

I love the look of original Moon Patrol CP, with the curved front. This one has taken a beating!

[javeryh]

Love the active marquee   Wish I knew how to do that easily, must put it on my arcade cab bucket-list

If I can figure it out literally anyone can.  There is a youtube video by MAMEFAN that explains how to set it up in Hyperspin.

Coming along great! Remember when an active marquee was a wish list item? Crazy. Good job.

For sure - we have come a long way!  It's going to be hard to go back to a static marquee after this project.  I knew what was coming and I still thought it was super cool when everything turned on.  I just hope I can figure out how to tweak the CRT settings.

I love the look of original Moon Patrol CP, with the curved front. This one has taken a beating!

Yeah... I am likely going to round over the edge.  I have a plan to tweak the art ever so slightly to accommodate for it.  Right now the border around the instructions just goes straight down, which I think might look awkward where it meets the front panel.  Instead, I think I'm going to turn that into a rectangle with the bottom edge on the curve.  Tomorrow though.

[javeryh]

Alright... here is the "near final" control panel (click for full resolution).  The bottom border to the instructions should hit the rounded over edge of the CP if I've calculated this correctly.  The bend should start right at the bottom of the last line of text.



The ServoStik, control board, iPAC2, white balltop, white goldleaf buttons and black 24mm button (for pause/exit) have all been ordered.  If I can get this image to the printer this week, I should be able to finish this all up by end of September.  Can't wait... I've got a few ideas for the next one LOL.