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Author Topic: RGB Mod TV - Jumping off point  (Read 642 times)

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Alaska

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RGB Mod TV - Jumping off point
« on: January 25, 2020, 08:28:22 pm »
I have been looking into modding a TV to accept RGB for awhile now. I am new to the topic but have come across some helpful links that provide details regarding this mod. I hope these links help others find a jumping off point if they are interested in doing an RGB mod. Anyone who has anything to add, please comment below!

Background info on RGB.
https://www.retrorgb.com/rgbguide.html

Ton of builds and Q&As
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=561551

In Search of Scanlines: The Best CRT Monitor for Retro Gaming ~ Article by Wesley Fenlon
https://www.tested.com/tech/gaming/456719-best-crt-retro-games/

Videos on RGB mods
Part 1

Part 2 - VGA input

Sony Trinitron Mod using Closed Caption


Sony Mod with locked BLK
https://www.instagram.com/p/B7OIe0lBHzG/?igshid=1w1sa8xyjemlv

NTSC TV RGB Input Hack ~Michael Moffit
http://mikejmoffitt.com/articles/0032-tvrgb.html]http://mikejmoffitt.com/articles/0032-tvrgb.html]http://mikejmoffitt.com/articles/0032-tvrgb.html

DIY circuit to convert VGA to composite sync
https://www.epanorama.net/circuits/vga2rgbs.html
Another solution presented below - use separate 500R resitors and 1k potentiometers for the H and V sync, then combine and connect to composite input

Types of RGB Mods:

Feed RGB to an unused/extra input in the Jungle Chip that is not associated with the on screen display (OSD). Example in the third video above where the closed caption board was modified to dish RGB from a console into the Jungle. RGB input must be analog!

Feed RGB through the OSD to the Jungle IC. This is a bit more involved as you will have to enable the OSD by feeding a constant voltage (typically 5V) through the blanking line associated with the OSD. Otherwise your RGB will show up inside of the OSD lettering. Also, a toggle switch will likely be needed to enable the OSD to make screen adjustments. This can be done using a 4pdt switch (4 inputs, three lines, RGB + BLK for your feed and the native OSD).

Feed directly to the neckboard. This is not optimal and not for noobs. It is much easier to find a different CRT than attempt this hack unless you are very experienced in TV repair and have the proper equipment.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2020, 04:18:20 pm by Alaska »

buttersoft

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Re: RGB Mod TV - Jumping off point
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2020, 08:45:21 pm »
The best place to go for RGb-modding advice is hands-down the shmups thread. There's a like 90 pages, but it will answer every question, and if not you can ask politely and get an answer

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155

IT's actually easier to feed RGB straight to the neckboard than anything else, but still not recommended as if you do it wrong you're nonstop dosing yourself with x-rays.

Also, that sync combiner is unnecessarily complex. Easiest is simply to use crt_emudriver and output composite sync directly from your GPU. After that, using a 500R resistor and a 1k potentiometer in each line, then combining the two, is all that's needed. There are edges cases, but 99% of the time that will work perfectly.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 08:55:59 pm by buttersoft »

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Re: RGB Mod TV - Jumping off point
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2020, 06:54:46 am »
The vast, vast majority of mods (especially on US NTSC TVs) will be leveraging the OSD Mux method.  By far, the easiest chassis to mod is the BA-5D chassis (Trinitron KV-FS100, KV-FS210, KV-FV300, KV-FV310.  These were popular TVs and show up often for cheap. The mod requires you to remove the board, take off some very small surface mount resistors, then everything else is just soldering to completely exposed topside jumpers. No pulling legs of resistors or capacitors, no other mods to the board or existing components.

Here is my mod with detailed instructions:

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63622&start=78

Note, read up on discharging tubes.  Itís really not very hard, but make absolutely sure you do it and do it two or 3 times just to be safe.  Once you get that, the rest is easy. 

Alaska

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Re: RGB Mod TV - Jumping off point
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2020, 02:42:07 pm »
Also, that sync combiner is unnecessarily complex. Easiest is simply to use crt_emudriver and output composite sync directly from your GPU. After that, using a 500R resistor and a 1k potentiometer in each line, then combining the two, is all that's needed. There are edges cases, but 99% of the time that will work perfectly.

Thanks! Essentially if someone wants to combine syncs, they would need to run H and V sync individually from the VGA leads to their own 500 ohm resistor then to a1k potentiometer (three leads, input sync with resitor, output, gnd), then combine the leads and connect the composite signal the composite input? Genius as this would allow for the signal to be 'tuned' in case there is a discrepancy in resistance or voltage.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 03:04:15 pm by Alaska »

buttersoft

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Re: RGB Mod TV - Jumping off point
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2020, 11:46:36 pm »
Yes, something like that. Most of the time tuning isn't needed, but occasionally it helps. And extron or similar device will do the same job easier, but is much more expensive to start with.

MiteWiseacre

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Re: RGB Mod TV - Jumping off point
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2020, 06:02:18 pm »
My vga to rgb worked fine combining H&V sync to a 75ohm terminated to ground resistor. Looks great

morton

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Re: RGB Mod TV - Jumping off point
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2020, 09:20:37 am »
Hey Nipsmg... do you advise these as being the best models to RGB mod? Any issues or caveats with the results? They're definitely abundant. Am thinking of giving it a shot.

Alaska

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Re: RGB Mod TV - Jumping off point
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2020, 06:45:12 pm »

Here is my mod with detailed instructions:

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63622&start=78

Note, read up on discharging tubes.  It’s really not very hard, but make absolutely sure you do it and do it two or 3 times just to be safe.  Once you get that, the rest is easy. 


It looks like you grounded all of your mods to the S Video ground, is that correct? I was wondering where to run the GND lines, the board or the VGA and was considering just using the VGA ground terminal. This would then have the GND from the potentiometers associated with the H and V sync and the 75ohm to GND from the R/G/B signal running back to the VGA GND. Wiring diagram attached, but GND is not specified yet for potentiometer or a grounding source for the 75ohm - GND... just a generic GND
« Last Edit: February 08, 2020, 10:34:38 pm by Alaska »

Alaska

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Re: RGB Mod TV - Jumping off point
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2020, 12:17:57 pm »
Hey Nipsmg... do you advise these as being the best models to RGB mod? Any issues or caveats with the results? They're definitely abundant. Am thinking of giving it a shot.

Sony's with the BA-5D chassis are definitely the most documented for an RGB mod. The link Nipsmg provided has numerous walkthroughs and troubleshooting. Here is a list of Sony models with that chassis:
KV-27FS100
KV-27FS210
KV-27FV300
KV-27FV310
KV-29FA210
KV-29FS100
KV-29FS100
KV-29FV300
KV-29FV300
KV-29FV310
KV-32FS100
KV-32FS200
KV-32FS210
KV-32FV300
KV-32FV310
KV-34FS100
KV-34FS100
KV-34FV250
KV-34FV310
KV-36FS100
KV-36FS200
KV-36FS210
KV-36FV300
KV-36FV310
KV-38FS200
KV-38FV250
KV-38FV310

bobbyb13

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Re: RGB Mod TV - Jumping off point
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2020, 03:51:53 am »
Although I don't know exactly what chassis they are, I have a few Sony sets that I have been wanting to (and afraid to) mod, so hopefully I can find the motivation/balls to give this a shot finally.

Thank you all for posting!

Bobby
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