Android

[daywane]

I was woundering if there is enough people here with Android to start a new Android group?
I am working my way out of Windows . going mixture of Linux Mint, Raspberry pi and Android.
Android has came a long way with emulation.
Nothing beats it with streaming APK'S. 
I have 5 android Phones (4 family plan) 1 just for games.
Shield Tv and 1 Windows 7 laptop I boot to Android.
Not a fan of Android tablets. To cheaply made.
If shield TV is out of price range M8S TV box is not that bad , but it will burn out in a year. If you do not cut the top and add better heat sink and vents. I have went through 2 before I moded my last one.
I think Android could take over market if the Industry wanted to.
Build to nvidea Shield standards and add DVD support. Last Shield update , right click on mouse works. Huge Plus.

[Osirus23]

I have an Android phone. The OS works good for handheld mobile devices but I have no desire to use it on anything else.

[Howard_Casto]

I mean this in the nicest way.  Just use windows.  You are always going to get sub-par options and support on any other OS. 

[leapinlew]

I use an Amazon Fire 8 to play Midway Touchmaster. It works great. Other than that, I have no reason to do anything else with it.

[Osirus23]

I mean this in the nicest way.  Just use windows.  You are always going to get sub-par options and support on any other OS.

Pretty much what I wanted to say in my reply but cut myself short.

[Grasshopper]

I'm not understanding all the negativity.

Android makes a perfectly fine emulation platform, and most of the emulators that matter have been ported to it.

People get very hung up over their favourite operating system. But at its most fundamental, all an OS has to do is provide drivers, and a means of launching programs. OK that's a gross simplification of what's actually happening behind the scenes. But the point is, once you're in the emulator, most users are not going to know (or care) whether it's running on Windows, Linux, or Android.

For casual gaming, a cheap android tablet or TV box makes a very good alternative to one of the Mini Consoles, or a Raspberry Pi.

[Mike A]

This isn't a casual gaming forum.

[leapinlew]

I'm not understanding all the negativity.

Of course there is some negativity. Conversations wrapped up around the software side of things has always been a big discussion point. Everything from which front end to which platform has been discussed forever. To Howards point, we've seen so many folks struggle through using a MAC or Linux, I can understand where he's coming from when he's suggesting Windows. Windows is like the easy button.

I'd say the largest platform outside of Windows is the Raspberry Pi. It works fine, until you want to make modifications to the default configuration and then it gets complicated fast. What we see on the forum is people who want to use a certain platform, but then want to bolt on some additional features (like scanlines, auto starting with a rom, specific rom sets, specific hardware, etc.) and that's where they run into issues.

[Howard_Casto]

For those not in the know the emulator is only like 25% of the equation.... the other 75% is front-ends, middle ware, custom forks or hacks of emulators, getting your arcade hardware to work ect. ect.  For that stuff, you know that most of it is written for windows exclusively.  Even more importantly, when you run into problems you need to find a group of people that are intimately familiar with your OS, your hardware and whatever homebrew software you are using.  If you use android and run into issues, you are virtually on your own.  I don't say to use windows because I'm biased in any way I say so because it's how you can do the most with as little difficulty as possible. 

[markc74]

Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons... I picked up a cheapo (£20) android tv box to mess around with. Aaaaand most pre 90s arcade/console stuff runs fine - and it has less controller lag than my raspberry pi.

I certainly wouldn't use it for a main build as the frontend options are not ideal (arc browser seems to be the best option) but as a cheap option it works better than I thought it would.

Agree with everything above though. If you have physical space (ie a cab) then a windows pc is a no-brainer.

[leapinlew]

I think it comes down to personal choice. For me, I would almost go with Windows for the reasons Howard said. On my most recent build, I only wanted a single game so I went with a Raspberry Pi. I had a few challenges along the way, but overall I spent less time configuring it than I would a Windows box. I'm an advanced computer user, so the small issues I had along the way may be deal breakers for others.

[daywane]

I 100% see the point. right now I am on my strongest PC. using Linux Mint. Very large learning curve. at this moment I have tried 3 WiFi adaptors . Still no WiFi. Video card problems also. I have joined a Forum for Linux Mint and things are slowly getting fixed up.
I hate to leave windows but Microsoft is not leaving much choice.I have been with windows since windows ME (quickly downgraded to 98) went to XP and stayed till Windows 7.  I hate windows 8 and 10. tried them many times. 8 and 10 ranks with windows Me and Vista to me. I like how I control Linux. (well after I learn it better)

Android I started with version 5 lollipop. M8S tv box. loved it. but burned up 1 every year. All I heard on internet was get a Nvidia Shield!  OMG was I pissed off at first. nobody tells you the play store is crippled with the shield.
Honestly the Shield sat in a box brand new for a year. I finally hit YouTube hard enough to learn the ins and outs of the Shield.
Spoofing Playstore into thinking the Shield is a Samsung 10 and full playstore is open.
I have N64 , PS1, NES, Snes, Mame , FBA running on it with game pads and arcade controlls. the APKs beat Kodi and Plex hands down for streaming. HDMI output. expandable with Hard drive or thumb drive  . I now use the Shield more than anything in the house.   

[daywane]

I have a window 10 Tablet I shelled to look just like windows 7.
windows still updates and and all kinds of crap I do not want it to do when I am doing something. DEMANDS restart.
Demands to log into Microsoft. pain in my butt.
I just thought I would see other OS people liked.
before we did DOS. B os ect.

[Mike A]

You are doing something very wrong.

I have 11 Windows 10 PCs at my office, 2 at home, and a laptop.

I don't have any of the problems you are describing.

[opt2not]

I won a chromebook at a christmas party this holiday season. Haven't opened it yet, since I'm still trying to figure out if I actually need it. I've got a Win10 tablet and a Crapbook Air already...

Is Chrome OS any good?

If I use this chromebook, it'll most likely be for word processing & spreadsheets, web browsing.  Maybe pixel art, but I don't think any of the good pixel art programs are available for Chrome OS. I would assume they have some sort of cheapy graphics program like MSPaint.

But this is the same for Android. I can't do 80% of what I need to on a computer with anything but MacOS or Windows. So I'm locked into those OS's.

[Osirus23]

Never tried Chrome OS. I do have a Chromecast which, coincidentally, I got at an office Christmas party but I only used it once for about 10 minutes.

[negative1]

You are doing something very wrong.

I have 11 Windows 10 PCs at my office, 2 at home, and a laptop.

I don't have any of the problems you are describing.

windows 10 is fine when:
1) you're not connected to the internet
2) its constantly updating

i've tried turning off updates, and delaying them, but it still forces you to after awhile,
which breaks things.

since its doing that most of the time. i will never upgrade to it, except for 1 test laptop i have.

windows 7 forever. (or 8.1) is the most stable.

later
-1

[Osirus23]

I'm shocked that the dozen+ Windows 7 PCs I upgraded to Windows 10 and the countless others I've done fresh installs with both at home and at work have never had any of these problems. I should by lottery tickets.

[yotsuya]

I'm shocked that the dozen+ Windows 7 PCs I upgraded to Windows 10 and the countless others I've done fresh installs with both at home and at work have never had any of these problems. I should by lottery tickets.

[Zebra]

I bet most people here have never tried emulators on a credible Android device simply because they can't see the point.

I have an Nvidia Shield and I also occasionally use my phone for Mame when I travel. While mame runs better on my Android devices than my Windows PCs, the platform simply doesn't have much support. You're stuck with very old versions of mame and you're behind with other emulators too. Any minor benefits don't make up for that.

There is really just two reasons go the Android route. One is for mobile gaming. The other is to get more performance from inferior hardware for people on a budget. The Nvidia Shields make a nice all round gaming / emulation platform and also works as your smart TV media player. It's a very neat and cost effective package.

[leapinlew]

I don't think it's a problem, so much as the forced updates make some folks uneasy. I don't think they are forcing updates any longer. Many of us saw the damage that Microsoft updates could have back in the day with Windows NT SP4, which was quickly remedied by Windows NT SP4a.

There are tons of examples online of the forced upgrade and forced patches caused.

[negative1]

I don't think it's a problem, so much as the forced updates make some folks uneasy. I don't think they are forcing updates any longer. Many of us saw the damage that Microsoft updates could have back in the day with Windows NT SP4, which was quickly remedied by Windows NT SP4a.

There are tons of examples online of the forced upgrade and forced patches caused.

The forced updates are always there, and are never going away.

Thats the main way windows operates from now on.

The only thing you can do is delay them, and then break things later on, which may or may not
ever get fixed again.

later
-1

[Mike A]

Or you can setup your Windows 10 PC, connect it to the internet, and never have ay problems with updates at all.

[leapinlew]

Or you can setup your Windows 10 PC, connect it to the internet, and never have ay problems with updates at all.

For those of us who have done system administration, which I'm guessing you never have, we've seen the unintended consequences an update can have. I don't blame anyone for being cautious.

[Mike A]

I have like 14 Windows 10 PCs I take care of. I have had exactly 0 problems with updates. If you administer 100s of PCs I can imagine you would run into some problems.

[leapinlew]

14's not nothing.... Glad it's working out.

Some of us carry scars from our past. I let my Windows 10 box patch itself, but I have images because a few times over the last several decades a patch blew my crap up.

[nitrogen_widget]

just about every cheap android stick will run emulators up to snes/genesis no problem and there are front ends that are just fine also.
but you are stuck with widescreen.

some android TV box's do composite out for whatever reason.
I've never tried them.

my quest recently was for N64 emulation in a 3d printed n64 case.
I could not find any youtube videos for an android device that played most N64 stuff and as cheap as a Xu4 so I went with the Xu4.
However, a lot of these $30 box's come with AV out which lets you connect to a CRT TV via component with flicker free video.
I need to test it though.
a retroarch aware front end on android such as Nostalgia makes for an easy emulator setup.

as for win10, it's slower than 7 when it comes to navigation of the OS, pulling up windows and launching applications.
At one point my HD would just peg itself at 100% usage. I found the fix online for that. it was a driver issue I didn't know I had because the driver was showing as working.
I have an older i7 with 16gb of ram and a 1 TB mechanical hard drive.
I just upgraded from 8 to 16 gb and it made a huge difference.
Playing actual games and using drawing software isn't slower or faster far as I can tell though.
Oh, and the auto updates.
I have them turned off.
It still downloads and installs updates. usually when I need to use the PC.
I have even checked the registry.
they are shown as off, but they still down load and force apply when I shut down or reboot leaving annoyed.


on the other hand, win 10 is great for extra gaming PC's.
both my kids are running un-activated copies of win 10 and it's perfectly legal.
you can't customize it and some settings are turned off but it still works fine for playing games and youtube.
there is an activate windows 10 watermark on the desktop but it doesn't show up in games.
i'll keep going like this until it stops working then I guess i'll have to buy them licenses.

Otherwise, for LCD screens i'd rather use linux. DietPI distro which is a little wonky to install and may require some compiling of emulators, but man it uses so little resources after boot so that older dual or quad core PC in the basement that you can only dig a few gigs in mismatched sticks fromm your ram box coupled with an ebay 64gb SSD from an old chromebook for $15 will get you a mame box.
Lubuntu would be my next choice since retropie script makes installing emulators easy.

But, I've been using linux since it looked like this so it isn't too intimidating to me.

[daywane]

shield emulation

[Grasshopper]

What baffles me, is why some of you guys seem to think that running emulators on Android is in any way difficult. It's not. In most cases, you simply need to download the emulator, download a few ROMs and you're ready to go. Indeed, one of the main criticisms levelled an Android is that it's too dumbed-down to be taken seriously as a general purpose operating system.

A more legitimate concern is the lack of configurability. Many Android builds don't even allow you to do basic stuff like changing the screen resolution. So if you've got some niche requirements, then it's probably better to look elsewhere. But if you just want to play old games on a modern TV with a minimum of fuss, then Android is a perfectly decent choice.

With regards to Windows 10, yeah Microsoft's policy of forced updates and spyware is incredibly toxic. I'm surprised they haven't faced a massive class lawsuit over this issue. In most parts of the world, remotely accessing someone else's computer without their consent is considered a crime.

Unfortunately, for playing modern PC games, Windows is still the only game in town. But if you just want to emulate old games, then I don't believe Windows offers any compelling advantages (and has some disadvantages) over the other platforms available.

[daywane]

NAOMI & ATOMISWAVE On The Nvidia Shield Android TV

[Osirus23]

What baffles me, is why some of you guys seem to think that running emulators on Android is in any way difficult.

I didn't see anyone claim that. Just claims that while you can get an emu up an running, getting everything configured the way you need becomes an issue, which brings us to:

A more legitimate concern is the lack of configurability. Many Android builds don't even allow you to do basic stuff like changing the screen resolution. So if you've got some niche requirements, then it's probably better to look elsewhere.

[Ond]

Screenshot from the laptop I sent this post from:



It's not perfect but it allows for some good control over Windows 10, especially forced updates etc.  I think tamed up Windows 10 is a good choice for gaming especially when it comes to driver compatibility.

I also use Linux on some laptops I have (Elementary OS) because its fast and free.

[Grasshopper]

Another possibility is to get hold of a copy of Windows 10 LTSC. This is a corporate version of Windows that has most of the bloatware removed, and doesn't auto update. It's basically what Windows 10 would have been had Microsoft not decided to aggressively push their cloud-based model of computing onto their customers.

Judging by their blogs on the subject, Microsoft really really hates having to make this version of Windows available to the corporate world. But for many businesses, the ability to block auto updates is simply non-negotiable. So M$ doesn't really have a choice.

Unfortunately, M$ doesn't allow ordinary users to obtain (or activate) that version of Windows through normal channels. So, all I will say on this subject is that google is your friend...

[Absoludacrous]

Unfortunately, for playing modern PC games, Windows is still the only game in town. But if you just want to emulate old games, then I don't believe Windows offers any compelling advantages (and has some disadvantages) over the other platforms available.

I think a lot of it depends on comfort level, especially when you start running into fringe problems. If you're just wanting to run MAME to play Pac-Man, you can use any platform pretty interchangeably. But I've spent the last few years tweaking LaunchBox to integrate tons of platforms, and getting things like Model2/Model3/Daphne/Cemu/Naomi/Hikaru/etc has all created certain problems with certain games. And since most users are on Windows, troubleshooting them usually just involves throwing your problem into Google and seeing what other people have done. Even the few times when I've been on my own with a problem, I was able to adapt something I saw that fixed a different problem somewhere to whatever this new problem was. There's just that specific knowledge-base available that isn't there yet for Android. And to me, that's a big thing with emulation in general. If you want to do the easy stuff it's a well-worn road, but as soon as you start to get a little complicated in what you're emulating, you're going to start running into issues.

Not to say that someone with a ton more linux knowledge than me couldn't solve these problems on their platform, but I think for the vast majority of users who might want to step out of the comfort zone of retroarch, Windows is the safest way to do it.

[Osirus23]

Most members here were running emulators on their PCs a decade before RetroArch ever existed.

[Absoludacrous]

Most members here were running emulators on their PCs a decade before RetroArch ever existed.

For sure, I still miss the days for stumbling through MAME command lines and first loading up zsnes and genecyst and realizing what these things were actually capable of. I think what I said was more directed to the type of person who doesn’t have a ton of history with emulation or Linux. That’s where the value of Windows and the knowledge-base comes in. If you’re the type of person who read my post and thought “that’s silly, I can do all that in Linux,” then Windows is going to have significantly less value for you.

[Zebra]

I haven't seen issues with a lack of configurability  with my android devices or the emulators they run. With the right know how it's far more open (to end users) than Windows. Mame on Android has better options for output resolution than mame main. But, we have groovymame to deal with all that in Windows so who cares.

I've never run a network but I can relate to the issues caused by forced updates. One minute all your apps work and then, without your permission, your device lights up and gets busy downloading stuff. Then suddenly, all your apps don't work any more... all so they could change your fonts to purple. That mainly applies to mobile devices though.

You could keep an android box off the internet just for gaming but there is little point. If you can't afford a Windows PC, you shouldn't be spending any money on gaming.

[nitrogen_widget]

NAOMI & ATOMISWAVE On The Nvidia Shield Android TV

the X1 in the shield is similar to the switch's SOC.

[dgame]

Does anyone have a link to instructions [that actually work] for compiling the latest MAME for Android?

Do any of those MAMEs in the Play Store use an up-to-date MAME version? Thanks

[Zebra]

Does anyone have a link to instructions [that actually work] for compiling the latest MAME for Android?

Do any of those MAMEs in the Play Store use an up-to-date MAME version? Thanks

The one in the play store is an old version of Mame (unless there has been some very recent updates). Nobody is prioritizing keeping Android mame up to date. If you're just using it on your phone this shouldn't be much of an issue though.

A lot of people are still using old versions of Mame even on a Windows PC because it's a hassle finding new rom sets for the latest releases. I'm still using .197 so I'm 20 versions behind. I only "upgrade" when a new game I like becomes playable which hasn't happened in years.

As for instructions for Android mame, there are tons of YouTube videos. Watch one. It's basically the same as using it on Windows. Download the app. Connect your android device to your PC. Then drag and drop all your roms into the folder called roms.

I recommend buying a micro USB to USB adapter (or USB C to USB) if your android device doesn't have regular USB ports. Then you can use regular PC game pads which makes set-up easier.

If you are using an Nvidia Shield, download a file manager as putting roms in the mame rom folder is a pain in the ass without one.