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Author Topic: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano  (Read 1631 times)

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Zebra

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My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« on: December 20, 2019, 09:58:35 pm »
Check out my new project to use a Sega (type 2) arcade IR gun with a Windows PC for mame. I'm using a HOD4 arcade gun in the video at just 3 feet from the screen:



I used 10 led boards around the screen for this test. There is a switch on the I/O board for 10 or 12 so I'll try both and report if it makes any difference.

My first impression is that it works really well. There is very little lag. It's accurate even at 3 feet from the screen with no loss of tracking. Accuracy is infinitely adjustable via X Y pots on the BD gun sense board to make crosshairs line up with Iron sights. I was able to play Time Crisis without visible crosshairs on-screen (after a some messing around with pots for calibration).

These Sega arcade IR guns output like an analog joystick so connecting it to a PC was very easy with a Uhid nano from Ultimarc. They are awesome devices.

I have plans to put a 128mb ram modded Xbox in my cab to use these guns with Chihiro games like Ghost Squad, Virtua Cop 3 and the arcade version of HOD3.

More to come.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 10:02:57 pm by Zebra »

BadMouth

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2019, 06:48:47 pm »
I'd like to see some gameplay from a standard point and shoot game instead of a mounted gun game where you spray bullets.

Looks good though, and 3ft is about right for playing on a cab IMO.

Good work!

Zebra

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2019, 07:18:27 pm »
I'd like to see some gameplay from a standard point and shoot game instead of a mounted gun game where you spray bullets.

Looks good though, and 3ft is about right for playing on a cab IMO.

Good work!

Great minds think alike (and fools never differ). I'm working on a Time Crisis video with no crosshairs on screen now. The one I shot yesterday of TC1 didn't come out right as the gun covered it's view due to my attempt to film from behind it to show it's accuracy...

It's academic for me as I have the USB2Gun with real arcade light guns to play games like TC1. I got the Sega guns for arcades that used their IR gun tech like Hod 3 and 4. I'm not expecting accuracy to match the best real light guns (on light gun games) but I think it can get close with a little time spent on calibration. The info is for others as I'm sure some will want to know if it's a viable option to play light gun games on HD flat screens.

The key advantages for me of owning a Type 2 gun set-up instead of an Aimtrak or Wii remote is being able to play at arcade-like distances, precision calibration controls, line of sight accuracy on arcade games that used IR guns and absolute positioning (thanks to it's defined screen edge). And, just as important, this set-up can also be used for real arcade PCBs like all Sega gun games from HOD2 to present day, Time Crisis 4 and 5 as well as all the recent Taito light gun games.

I'll post the new Time Crisis video shortly.

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2019, 07:20:08 pm »
I tried to search on ebay but came up empty.  Do we have a part number or something I can search for?  The just led boards (the only things that came up in a search) are around $100 online, but if the circuit is simple enough it might be possible to get some boards made and roll our own. 

Zebra

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2019, 08:25:52 pm »
I tried to search on ebay but came up empty.  Do we have a part number or something I can search for?  The just led boards (the only things that came up in a search) are around $100 online, but if the circuit is simple enough it might be possible to get some boards made and roll our own.

I recommend reading TwistedSymphony's awesome 4 part write up on Sega type 2 gun set ups. It will answer most your questions:

http://solid-orange.com/1611

It's an excellent piece of work and even I was able to follow it.

On ebay, I found it most productive to search for parts on a game by game basis as there is no consistency in sellers part names. E.g. Try searching for "ghost squad arcade sensors" or "House of the dead 2 arcade led boards" etc. A lot of sellers are parting out cabs so check their other items on ebay if you find one selling one of the parts you need.

It's not an economical option in time or money . Expect to pay around $500 for a working set of all the parts you need. I don't think diy is an option for the LED boards. The circuits look too complicated for that. Given their outrageous price new, you'd think there'd be some Chinese knock-offs by now but I couldn't find any working alternatives. You'll make a lot of people happy if you figure it out.

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2019, 09:40:13 pm »
I took a quick scan of the article, thanks.  Since the boards aren't sega specific, the trick would be to find the shittiest game that uses them.  It might not be much of a savings but it could be some.  I know I got my pac-man control panel cheaply by searching for sky shark and then filling in the holes. 

Zebra

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2019, 11:33:35 pm »
I couldn't find any that were noticeably less expensive than any other. Everyone who'd buy them knows they are universal so Led boards or I/O boards from the worst games are no less desirable than those from the best and latest cabs. Plus, they break easily so there are plenty of people who need replacements.

The only part that may be cheaper is the gun. Older Sega gun cabs used those generic pistols. They are less expensive and less desirable than a Ghost Squad recoil gun with 3 buttons or an Hod3 shotgun. But.., they only have a trigger button.

The Namco LED boards and I/O seem to sell for a little more than Sega parts which is odd as they are compatible and identical.

There is a huge variation between sellers across the board though so sometimes it's just s case of luck and patience. I paid $170 for my first set of LED boards and I got a second set for just $60...

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2019, 01:12:31 am »
I'll try to setup some alerts tomorrow.  I agree that the price isn't ideal but considering the upcoming commercial solutions are going to be over $200 if you get all the bells and whistles it isn't that bad.  (Well it's bad, but if I'm going to spend that much I'd rather have something of high quality.)  Also if a person wires it right and hacks a few gamepads it could be used on almost any modern-ish console. 


I still haven't gave up on some of the homebrew solutions... I just never have the time these days to try and develop something. 

Zebra

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2019, 11:04:01 am »
Here is a video of me using the type 2 guns to play Time Crisis in mame without crosshairs on-screen. I know the video sucks so I'm going to try again later. I'm not sure why this one game comes out so over-exposed when others don't:



I think you can just about make out that it works with enough accuracy to enjoy the game at arcade-like distances from the screen. It's not a particularly easy game to play and film at the same time. I should get a tripod or something. The shots I missed were mostly me and not the gun.

I carried on playing long after filming because I was having fun which is a strong indication of how well it performs. I literally can't stand these games with guns that don't land shots where I aim or ones that don't register reliably.

Zebra

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2019, 12:05:32 pm »
I'll try to setup some alerts tomorrow.  I agree that the price isn't ideal but considering the upcoming commercial solutions are going to be over $200 if you get all the bells and whistles it isn't that bad.  (Well it's bad, but if I'm going to spend that much I'd rather have something of high quality.)  Also if a person wires it right and hacks a few gamepads it could be used on almost any modern-ish console. 


I still haven't gave up on some of the homebrew solutions... I just never have the time these days to try and develop something.

I had a similar thought on how it can be used. It's potential is mostly outside of Mame thanks to some exciting recent developments.

You have Teknoparrot games like Hod4, Rambo, Too Spicy, Golden Gun and Operation Ghost.

 A 128mb modded Xbox can now play Chihiro versions of Ghost Squad, Virtua Cop 3 and Hod 3.

A Naomi multi kit or an emulator gives you access to type 2 games like Hod2, Confidential Mission, Death Crimson, Maze of Kings, and Lupin the 3rd.

Plus, if you happen to spot a deal on a Namco 256 for the Time Crisis 4 arcade, these guns will work. Same if Time Crisis 5 is ever playable at home.

IMO, it would be worth it just for the games listed above. It's expensive and a lot of work to install but you can do a whole lot with one set-up. Plus, they also work really well for fixed gun games as it's the same analog output. You can use a type 2 set up with any fixed gun cab even on real hardware. And... as you said, it can be used with any console game that can be played with an analog pad. It may be possible without even doing a pad hack.

When used on arcade cabs, the BD gun sense I/O board used for type 2 guns typically connects to an I/O control card which connects to the PCB (or PC) via a USB port. There is at least a chance that a Namco 256 gun I/O will work with a PS2 and the Chihiro JVS card on an original Xbox and Lindbergh on a regular PC etc. People hack dreamcast pads for use on Naomi. Why not the other way. I plan to do some testing.

The Wii remote and Guncon 3 also outputs like a regular analog controller. I think you could even hack a type 2 gun signal into one of those devices to use real arcade guns instead of the Wii zapper or Sharp Shooter. This is my next project after I finish installing recoil in my Hod4 guns.



Zebra

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2019, 01:01:43 am »
Here's a slightly better video of me playing Time Crisis with the type 2 guns. You can actually see the image this time... I know, I know, I spoil you guys!



And, not a bad first round considering I was trying to aim through the screen on my phone camera.

This is just with my temporary test set-up. It will gain some extra precision when I install a permanent set-up in my new house in Feb. It's not worth me going through a super detailed calibration until then. It all works best when the LEDs are mounted perfectly square and parallel with even spacing between each one etc.

It's interesting (ish) that when I turn off the screen out function and try to make the gun lose alignment with the crosshairs, you can see it self-correct. This is noticeably different to IR guns that only track motion with no defined screen edge. The screen-out function obviously does more here than allowing off-screen reloading.

Zebra

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2019, 05:02:46 pm »
Here's a video of Time Crisis in Mame with real light guns using a USB2GUN board for comparison:



The way the type 2 and real light guns perform in Time Crisis feels fairly similar. I.e. It's playable but not perfect. Some of this is because Time Crisis is not particularly well emulated in Mame. It's missing key features like the arcade's calibration screen and it suffers slowdown (that wasn't there in the coin-op). This sometimes results in shots not registering as hits, even when you can see the shot land on target. It's not enough to spoil my enjoyment though. It only effects accuracy during slow-down so maybe I just need a faster PC.

Both type 2 and real light guns perform noticeably better on games that are well emulated like the Operation Wolf prototype.

Zebra

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2020, 08:16:18 pm »

Check out this new mod I added to my Sega Type 2 guns. I installed a switch to change the output from an analog controller in Windows to an (absolute) mouse.



Now I can use these guns with games that only work with a mouse without any intermediate software which avoids compatibility issues (and a bunch of hassle). I just flip a switch when I need mouse output.

The switch directs the output from the gun sense board to either the UHID (for analog) or an Arduino with absolute mouse code. Simple.

Surprisingly, it works really well in mouse mode (considering Windows has no absolute mouse calibration option). It has zero perceivable lag which makes it feel a lot more responsive than guns using cameras. Cursor movement is essentially 1:1 with my hand movement. It's so precise I can actually use it almost as well as an actual mouse for navigating through folders in Windows. I certainly couldn't do that with my Act Labs gun or my Aimtrak.



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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2020, 01:47:56 am »
I recommend reading TwistedSymphony's awesome 4 part write up on Sega type 2 gun set ups. It will answer most your questions:

http://solid-orange.com/1611

It's an excellent piece of work and even I was able to follow it.
Interesting read, I wish we could have easy access to this kind of components too, we could build our own DIY techs on it :P

Zebra

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2020, 12:33:23 pm »
I recommend reading TwistedSymphony's awesome 4 part write up on Sega type 2 gun set ups. It will answer most your questions:

http://solid-orange.com/1611

It's an excellent piece of work and even I was able to follow it.
Interesting read, I wish we could have easy access to this kind of components too, we could build our own DIY techs on it :P

We do, there is nothing in the Sega arcade IR gun set-up that is expensive or hard to source. The biggest barrier to a diy version is people getting in their own way.

These arcade IR guns are basically just an IR gesture sensor like this, except with the photodiode or photo-resistor in the gun reacting to the IR LED light directly instead of it's reflection off your hand (watch the video on their site):

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13162


Each of the ten LEDs should be thought of as ten separate zones. The LEDs are lit individually in a circular continuous sequence so the timing of the sensors reaction can be used to identify which zone you are aiming at. It's very similar to the old CRT light gun tech (which makes sense as that was what they were based on). They just use IR timing instead of scanline timing.

A photodiode or photo-resistor is basically just a device that reacts to light with an electrical response. The brighter the light, the more of a response you get. This provides analog data (I.e. variable voltage) on how close to LED you are aiming. Instead of trying to see all the LEDs at once, the arcade gun system actively limits the gun's "view" to one LED board at a time to avoid "ambiguous zones". This is why it works close to the screen (and why it has a maximum distance).

Quality Photodiodes and Photo-resistors are considerably cheaper than quality high speed IR cameras. It's also considerably easier to create an accurate and responsive IR gun that can be used at arcade-like distances from the screen with sensors than it is with cameras. Namco, Nintendo, Sony, Ultimarc and the EMS Topgun people all failed with cameras.

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2020, 08:23:24 pm »
I'm just sick of throwing money into solutions that don't pan out.  Somebody rig up a prototype with off the shelf parts and enough software to do a poc and I'd be glad to try and perfect something.

Zebra

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2020, 11:44:28 am »
The diy and home IR guns rarely pan out because, for some reason, people choose to copy the one design that we know does not work very well. If you want something to work well, you start with what has worked well before.

As for making a quality quick and dirty prototype IR sensor gun, that is not possible. You could do it with one IR led board but that that wouldn't deliver the desired results. That's how the cheap Chinese PC guns off Aliexpress work:

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32860618523.html

To do it with 10 led boards, you would need to write the code and configure the hardware to light them in a continuous circular pulse pattern and have the processor interpret the timing. It's well documented online but it still requires people with programming and electronics knowledge to invest time and cash to prototype it.

As most people on forums still think arcade IR guns are "basically just a Wii remote", I assume nobody is working on a home version currently.



JayBee

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2020, 11:03:52 am »
The diy and home IR guns rarely pan out because, for some reason, people choose to copy the one design that we know does not work very well. If you want something to work well, you start with what has worked well before.

As for making a quality quick and dirty prototype IR sensor gun, that is not possible. You could do it with one IR led board but that that wouldn't deliver the desired results. That's how the cheap Chinese PC guns off Aliexpress work:

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32860618523.html

To do it with 10 led boards, you would need to write the code and configure the hardware to light them in a continuous circular pulse pattern and have the processor interpret the timing. It's well documented online but it still requires people with programming and electronics knowledge to invest time and cash to prototype it.

As most people on forums still think arcade IR guns are "basically just a Wii remote", I assume nobody is working on a home version currently.
Copy design? Does not work very well? So my 4 leds system is ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- from what you are saying?  ::)

The huge problem I see with this Arcade IR system is that even if we manage to make it work it will be a pain to adapt to every TV, to calibrate it and make it work properly.
Second issue is that you will always need to connect the gun (or guns) to the leds system to sync it, it will never be a plug and play solution.
There are many other issues like the fact the led system will take lot of space and won't be easy to fit in a gaming installation, the difficulty of building the electronic, the global cost of the components that surely won't be cheap...

To sum up, it looks like an awesome solution for a dedicated arcade machine, probably the best if we manage to do it.
But for casual use or just an easier plug and play solution, like what most people seems to do, the IR cam solutions are way more convenient and work well enough for small gaming sessions.

Now if you give me a list of the needed components and a working schematic, and if it doesn't cost hundreds of $, I'm ready to help in the programing and testing of it   ;)

Zebra

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2020, 02:47:52 pm »
Answer to the first question, yes, I think the design with a camera and 4 LEDs will be sh*t. It's not because I don't think you have the talent to build something great. I think there is an inherent hardware limitation. Sorry.,. I know nobody likes to be told their baby is ugly...

I'd be happy to be wrong but I'd have to see it (in person) to believe it. You aren't the first to claim accuracy of a camera gun.

The EMS Topgun 3 uses 4 LED blocks and still suffers from the same problems as all the other Camera / LED guns. I.e. You have to stand in another state for it to see the LEDs, they lag and suffer from drift (a build up of errors that causes the crosshairs to drift away from your iron sights over time).

I think these issues will be there in any system that calculates the guns position instead of detecting what it is aiming at. You can aim at any given point on-screen from a literally infinite number of angles:



As a result, current camera guns drift when you move. Arcade IR sensor guns do not. I only had to calibrate the Sega guns once for Windows. It works when I stand. It works when I sit (from left or right of the screen).

The arcade IR guns certainly require some installation but it's nothing unusual for anyone serious about this hobby. I'm not sure you could call a diy option "plug in n play" either. Whether you have 4 or 10 LED boards, there is a mounting challenge that will put some people off. My LEDs will be hidden in the bezel and invisible like on arcade cabs. To me, this makes it an issue on day one only.

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2020, 03:30:32 pm »
Answer to the first question, yes, I think the design with a camera and 4 LEDs will be sh*t. It's not because I don't think you have the talent to build something great. I think there is an inherent hardware limitation. Sorry.,. I know nobody likes to be told their baby is ugly...

I'd be happy to be wrong but I'd have to see it (in person) to believe it. You aren't the first to claim accuracy of a camera gun.

The EMS Topgun 3 uses 4 LED blocks and still suffers from the same problems as all the other Camera / LED guns. I.e. You have to stand in another state for it to see the LEDs, they lag and suffer from drift (a build up of errors that causes the crosshairs to drift away from your iron sights over time).

I think these issues will be there in any system that calculates the guns position instead of detecting what it is aiming at. You can aim at any given point on-screen from a literally infinite number of angles:



As a result, current camera guns drift when you move. Arcade IR sensor guns do not. I only had to calibrate the Sega guns once for Windows. It works when I stand. It works when I sit (from left or right of the screen).

The arcade IR guns certainly require some installation but it's nothing unusual for anyone serious about this hobby. I'm not sure you could call a diy option "plug in n play" either. Whether you have 4 or 10 LED boards, there is a mounting challenge that will put some people off. My LEDs will be hidden in the bezel and invisible like on arcade cabs. To me, this makes it an issue on day one only.
If you checked it you would know the reason I did my 4 LEDs system is to address those issues specifically, because I was also not happy with the way other systems worked.
So no, my system don't have those issues.
It's based on aiming not position.
It doesn't care about the angle you aim for and has a line of sight accuracy in pretty much any angle, without needing any kind of calibration beside the first time camera sensor calibration (same as the first time calibration for arcade).
The latency of my whole system is around 5ms, faster than a real arcade system even on CRT.
The minimum distance while not being perfect, is drastically reduced compared to other IR solutions. You can stand at 1.5m from a 40inches screen, it will still work. And I'm even working to reduce it beyond that.
This of course won't ever be as good as a 10 LEDs solution obviously, and depends of the size of the screen, but it's good enough to work in most situations, for most setup, especially 2 players mode.

It's plug and play in a way that once you built the hardware and calibrated the camera, you can pretty much hotplug it on any device that supports hid mouse or joystick, and use it on any screen of any size, without any extra calibration or anything else. You can also use as many guns as you want at the same time, still without needing any extra work.
Even if it's still a diy project, it's as plug and play as it can get.

But don't just trust me on that, test it by yourself  ;)

I understand your point of view, and I respect it, but I would appreciate if you would not dismiss other people work in here without knowing what it's about.
As a community we try to improve each other work, make a solution for everyone, for every setup and need, we aren't trying to compete on who has the biggest  :lol

Zebra

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2020, 05:51:44 pm »
If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question. I wouldn't have said anything about it if you hadn't asked specifically. We weren't even talking about your project.

This thread is to demo the use of Sega or Namco arcade IR guns on a Windows PC. It's a point of interest for other light gun fanatics looking for something of arcade quality to play arcade shooters on an HD TV. Obviously comparison with existing home IR guns is part of that. Talking about your diy project (which I have never seen) is not. You have a thread for that.

There is no point of trying to convince me that camera based IR guns don't suck.  I've been disappointed too many times. The only way would be to get it into the hands of some independent testers outside the echo chamber. People with similarly high standards (I.e. not guys who play with crosshairs on-screen and think their Aimtrak is arcade quality). People who run real arcade hardware.

If you did that, I'd suggest being less sensitive if you want meaningful feedback. You can't expect people to change (or sensor) opinions that are based on real world experiences just because you say "this time's different". There are at least 8 camera based guns on the market and they all disappointed after making bold claims.


BadMouth

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2020, 06:35:26 pm »
Opinions differ, but please don't discourage each other or allow yourselves to be discouraged.  Light gun progress has been jack ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- for the past decade accept for the support programs.  We finally have a light gun forum and some people testing new ideas.  I'd hate to lose our window into the progress and testing because someone pissed someone else off.

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2020, 01:28:18 am »
@Zebra You were just being openly dismissive about people still working on IR cam based solutions, so of course yeah I reacted, the same way you always react when someone tells you those "arcade quality" solutions are expensive and also have tons of issues.
And don't tell me not to talk about or criticize something in other places than my thread, you've been doing the exact same thing before :lol

I don't mind different opinions, that's the opposite I think it's important to have different point of view to improve each solution.
However the thing I don't agree with the "leet" way of seeing it, that everyone without your arbitrary "high standard" are just people playing with crosshair and who love the aimtrak toys (which I don't like either).
And that playing with real arcade is the only way of the "true" experts.
I don't care about you not liking our work, and you have the right to say you don't like it. Just don't be hateful and dismissive like that with the people using it and working on it.
You can hate the technologies, don't spit on people who try to make those tech better.

Opinions differ, but please don't discourage each other or allow yourselves to be discouraged.  Light gun progress has been jack ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- for the past decade accept for the support programs.  We finally have a light gun forum and some people testing new ideas.  I'd hate to lose our window into the progress and testing because someone pissed someone else off.
Don't worry, if I had to be discouraged by anyone I never would have released my 4 leds solution, or I would have kept it for myself, which is what many people probably did already.
I'm not doing it for love or gratitude, it's just about providing people with good alternatives to commercial consumer products.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 01:30:35 am by JayBee »

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2020, 12:19:27 pm »
It seems like you do mind different opinions which explains this little tantrum.

Nobody here was talking about your project. We were talking about the existing home gun products that we've seen. People aren't going to stop expressing opinions to stop you getting a sore tushy.

Now, please stop derailing the thread. It has nothing to do with your project. Not everything is about you.

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2020, 08:39:44 pm »
It seems like you do mind different opinions which explains this little tantrum.

Nobody here was talking about your project. We were talking about the existing home gun products that we've seen. People aren't going to stop expressing opinions to stop you getting a sore tushy.

Now, please stop derailing the thread. It has nothing to do with your project. Not everything is about you.
Fun how you accuse me of the same behavior you've had all the freaking time in other people posts.
Again it's not about your opinion on projects, it's about your hateful judgement about people that don't have the same point of view as you. You've been bitching around in many posts about people using and creating IR solutions, not only about the solutions themselves. Even if I wasn't saying anything at first it got old fast. Just create a better DIY or commercial solution for us if you're not happy instead of complaining everywhere how we are incapable of making true arcade tech, and then we will talk.
For the record, I was at first trying to understand your tech to see if I could do a similar tech on a DIY project, but then out of nowhere you started your rant about IR solutions and how people are unable to do a solution you would like them to do because of it. That's clearly not how you will push people to help you on that.
But I don't care, you do you, and I will keep doing my stuff for people who care anyway.

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2020, 11:15:16 am »
I've been testing the Sega arcade guns with the Dolphin (Wii) emulator this week. Playing Ghost Squad with the same gun set-up as the original coin-op is pure magic:




I have to say, I'm very impressed with the Dolphin emulator. I'm not usually a fan of emulators of later systems as the experience is often incomplete. Not so with Dolphin. It performs really well and it's Wii remote emulation offers close to 100% functionality. For gun games this means that, unlike mame, their calibration function actually works.

The net result is that I think Dolphin is the best way to play certain shooters aside from putting the original cabs in your house. It works noticeably better than model 2, model 3, Demul and CXBX emulators or even Windows CD roms for games like:
- House of the Dead 2
- House of the Dead 3
- Ghost Squad
- Target Terror
- LA Machine Guns
- Gunblade NY

I was so impressed that I just ordered a real arcade Ghost Squad gun to play that game as Arcade-God intended. It's so much better than playing with a Wii remote.



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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2020, 05:45:35 pm »
A little House of the Dead 3 action with the Sega guns. It looks and plays so much better on Dolphin than the PC CD rom version:



You have to point away from the screen to reload but if I wire the screen-out button from the gun sense board to the pump handle on a HOD3 arcade shotgun, I'd be able to reload like the real arcade.

I believe this is the best and most arcade-accurate way to play HOD3 at home aside from buying a Chihiro set-up. Unless, anyone here knows of a better way? Same for HOD2 taking into account the emulation performance and control options.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2020, 07:16:23 pm by Zebra »

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2020, 08:22:22 pm »
I picked up this Ghost Squad arcade recoil gun for the Sega type 2 set-up. Playing Ghost Squad in Dolphin with the right gun is just better!



I found a new and simpler way of hooking up the recoil solenoid too. Instead of using two PSUs with a relay trigger or mosfet, I used one of the led output pins on my UHID. In the UHID set-up software, it allows you to allocate any of the pins to be an output and then select how it's activated from a drop-down menu. I.e. You can make it output 5v in response to a button press, turn off in response or just output 5v all the time. The output can be regular or pulsed (for flashing lights) too.

In my case, I allocated pin 8 (of 54) to output 5v when I pull the trigger. That 5v activates an NE555 signal generator which activates a solid state relay with 24v going to the solenoid. This was me testing the UHID outputs.



As the UHID has a pulse option, I could probably lose the NE555 board. I have more experimenting to do. The UHID also has the option of activating outputs with PC controlled software like mame hooker or LED blinky but that's s project for another day.

I also picked up this box of parts for $70 off ebay. Turned out to be two complete Virtua Cop 3 guns (which are Sega type 2) and this complete analog stick from a Panzer Elite tank game cab:



I call that a good shopping week!

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2020, 01:09:35 pm »
A little House of the Dead 3 action with the Sega guns. It looks and plays so much better on Dolphin than the PC CD rom version:



You have to point away from the screen to reload but if I wire the screen-out button from the gun sense board to the pump handle on a HOD3 arcade shotgun, I'd be able to reload like the real arcade.

I believe this is the best and most arcade-accurate way to play HOD3 at home aside from buying a Chihiro set-up. Unless, anyone here knows of a better way? Same for HOD2 taking into account the emulation performance and control options.

That looks nice, but wouldn't playing HotD3 on an original Xbox with a CRT light gun be more arcade accurate? The original Xbox and chihiro are basically the same hardware.

Same would apply for hotd2 on the Dreamcast, as that's very similar to the Naomi hardware.

Have you noticed much lag with dolphin?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 01:11:36 pm by 2huwman »

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Re: My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2020, 02:28:44 pm »
A little House of the Dead 3 action with the Sega guns. It looks and plays so much better on Dolphin than the PC CD rom version:



You have to point away from the screen to reload but if I wire the screen-out button from the gun sense board to the pump handle on a HOD3 arcade shotgun, I'd be able to reload like the real arcade.

I believe this is the best and most arcade-accurate way to play HOD3 at home aside from buying a Chihiro set-up. Unless, anyone here knows of a better way? Same for HOD2 taking into account the emulation performance and control options.

That looks nice, but wouldn't playing HotD3 on an original Xbox with a CRT light gun be more arcade accurate? The original Xbox and chihiro are basically the same hardware.

Same would apply for hotd2 on the Dreamcast, as that's very similar to the Naomi hardware.

Have you noticed much lag with dolphin?

The Chihiro arcade of HOD3 and HOD2 on Naomi didn't use a real light gun. They both used Sega type 2 guns which don't flash when you pull the trigger. I asked myself the same question about which would be more arcade-accurate as an experience. I'm not sure there is a right answer. My view is that it's the gun controller that makes or breaks the experience. I like to use the same gun tech as the cab.

I have a Dreamcast. There are no good light guns for the system. Even the official Sega one sucks. Everything else becomes irrelevant if you don't have an accurate gun. It'll never feel like the arcade.

The original Xbox is nice hardware and has a great port of HOD3 with decent light guns. You can also mod it to play Virtua Cop 3 and the Chihiro version of Ghost Squad. I'm tempted but if I was going to spend $400+ to play those games, I'd invest in a real Chihiro multi.

As for emulators, I've always found Naomi games on Demul to be problematic. I'm not sure if it's my hardware but nothing ever seems to run very well. The Xbox emulator is barely functional.

Dolphin is one of the best emulators for later systems that I've used. It makes proper use of a gpu so 3d games run properly even on fairly modest hardware. It has great options for both native res and upscaled output for HD screens. It's controls emulation is significantly better and more functional than Mame.  You can actually calibrate a gun properly and it works.

I have a real Wii and Ghost Squad. It feels more responsive in Dolphin with the real Sega arcade guns. Hod 3 is a near perfect Port on the Wii aside from some minor textures. It runs well in Dolphin and with the real Sega arcade guns, it feels as close to the coin-op as you can get without buying the cab.

I have the PC CD rom version of HOD3. It looks and plays a lot better in Dolphin. That's not to say that all shooters are good in Dolphin. Mad Dog Mccree sucks on a real Wii so it still sucks in Dolphin. Same with Target Terror. Gunblade works better than in the Model 2 emulator but still not great.

I should also add that I've only used Dolphin in 480p on a crt monitor. I have no view on how it performs if you upscale the output for HD flatscreens.