My Sega (type 2) Arcade IR gun to Mame project using Uhid nano

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Howard_Casto:
I'm just sick of throwing money into solutions that don't pan out. Somebody rig up a prototype with off the shelf parts and enough software to do a poc and I'd be glad to try and perfect something.

Zebra:
The diy and home IR guns rarely pan out because, for some reason, people choose to copy the one design that we know does not work very well. If you want something to work well, you start with what has worked well before.

As for making a quality quick and dirty prototype IR sensor gun, that is not possible. You could do it with one IR led board but that that wouldn't deliver the desired results. That's how the cheap Chinese PC guns off Aliexpress work:

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32860618523.html

To do it with 10 led boards, you would need to write the code and configure the hardware to light them in a continuous circular pulse pattern and have the processor interpret the timing. It's well documented online but it still requires people with programming and electronics knowledge to invest time and cash to prototype it.

As most people on forums still think arcade IR guns are "basically just a Wii remote", I assume nobody is working on a home version currently.

JayBee:

--- Quote from: Zebra on January 23, 2020, 11:44:28 am ---The diy and home IR guns rarely pan out because, for some reason, people choose to copy the one design that we know does not work very well. If you want something to work well, you start with what has worked well before.

As for making a quality quick and dirty prototype IR sensor gun, that is not possible. You could do it with one IR led board but that that wouldn't deliver the desired results. That's how the cheap Chinese PC guns off Aliexpress work:

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32860618523.html

To do it with 10 led boards, you would need to write the code and configure the hardware to light them in a continuous circular pulse pattern and have the processor interpret the timing. It's well documented online but it still requires people with programming and electronics knowledge to invest time and cash to prototype it.

As most people on forums still think arcade IR guns are "basically just a Wii remote", I assume nobody is working on a home version currently.

--- End quote ---
Copy design? Does not work very well? So my 4 leds system is ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- from what you are saying? ::)

The huge problem I see with this Arcade IR system is that even if we manage to make it work it will be a pain to adapt to every TV, to calibrate it and make it work properly.
Second issue is that you will always need to connect the gun (or guns) to the leds system to sync it, it will never be a plug and play solution.
There are many other issues like the fact the led system will take lot of space and won't be easy to fit in a gaming installation, the difficulty of building the electronic, the global cost of the components that surely won't be cheap...

To sum up, it looks like an awesome solution for a dedicated arcade machine, probably the best if we manage to do it.
But for casual use or just an easier plug and play solution, like what most people seems to do, the IR cam solutions are way more convenient and work well enough for small gaming sessions.

Now if you give me a list of the needed components and a working schematic, and if it doesn't cost hundreds of $, I'm ready to help in the programing and testing of it ;)

Zebra:
Answer to the first question, yes, I think the design with a camera and 4 LEDs will be sh*t. It's not because I don't think you have the talent to build something great. I think there is an inherent hardware limitation. Sorry.,. I know nobody likes to be told their baby is ugly...

I'd be happy to be wrong but I'd have to see it (in person) to believe it. You aren't the first to claim accuracy of a camera gun.

The EMS Topgun 3 uses 4 LED blocks and still suffers from the same problems as all the other Camera / LED guns. I.e. You have to stand in another state for it to see the LEDs, they lag and suffer from drift (a build up of errors that causes the crosshairs to drift away from your iron sights over time).

I think these issues will be there in any system that calculates the guns position instead of detecting what it is aiming at. You can aim at any given point on-screen from a literally infinite number of angles:

As a result, current camera guns drift when you move. Arcade IR sensor guns do not. I only had to calibrate the Sega guns once for Windows. It works when I stand. It works when I sit (from left or right of the screen).

The arcade IR guns certainly require some installation but it's nothing unusual for anyone serious about this hobby. I'm not sure you could call a diy option "plug in n play" either. Whether you have 4 or 10 LED boards, there is a mounting challenge that will put some people off. My LEDs will be hidden in the bezel and invisible like on arcade cabs. To me, this makes it an issue on day one only.

JayBee:

--- Quote from: Zebra on January 25, 2020, 02:47:52 pm ---Answer to the first question, yes, I think the design with a camera and 4 LEDs will be sh*t. It's not because I don't think you have the talent to build something great. I think there is an inherent hardware limitation. Sorry.,. I know nobody likes to be told their baby is ugly...

I'd be happy to be wrong but I'd have to see it (in person) to believe it. You aren't the first to claim accuracy of a camera gun.

The EMS Topgun 3 uses 4 LED blocks and still suffers from the same problems as all the other Camera / LED guns. I.e. You have to stand in another state for it to see the LEDs, they lag and suffer from drift (a build up of errors that causes the crosshairs to drift away from your iron sights over time).

I think these issues will be there in any system that calculates the guns position instead of detecting what it is aiming at. You can aim at any given point on-screen from a literally infinite number of angles:

As a result, current camera guns drift when you move. Arcade IR sensor guns do not. I only had to calibrate the Sega guns once for Windows. It works when I stand. It works when I sit (from left or right of the screen).

The arcade IR guns certainly require some installation but it's nothing unusual for anyone serious about this hobby. I'm not sure you could call a diy option "plug in n play" either. Whether you have 4 or 10 LED boards, there is a mounting challenge that will put some people off. My LEDs will be hidden in the bezel and invisible like on arcade cabs. To me, this makes it an issue on day one only.

--- End quote ---
If you checked it you would know the reason I did my 4 LEDs system is to address those issues specifically, because I was also not happy with the way other systems worked.
So no, my system don't have those issues.
It's based on aiming not position.
It doesn't care about the angle you aim for and has a line of sight accuracy in pretty much any angle, without needing any kind of calibration beside the first time camera sensor calibration (same as the first time calibration for arcade).
The latency of my whole system is around 5ms, faster than a real arcade system even on CRT.
The minimum distance while not being perfect, is drastically reduced compared to other IR solutions. You can stand at 1.5m from a 40inches screen, it will still work. And I'm even working to reduce it beyond that.
This of course won't ever be as good as a 10 LEDs solution obviously, and depends of the size of the screen, but it's good enough to work in most situations, for most setup, especially 2 players mode.

It's plug and play in a way that once you built the hardware and calibrated the camera, you can pretty much hotplug it on any device that supports hid mouse or joystick, and use it on any screen of any size, without any extra calibration or anything else. You can also use as many guns as you want at the same time, still without needing any extra work.
Even if it's still a diy project, it's as plug and play as it can get.

But don't just trust me on that, test it by yourself ;)

I understand your point of view, and I respect it, but I would appreciate if you would not dismiss other people work in here without knowing what it's about.
As a community we try to improve each other work, make a solution for everyone, for every setup and need, we aren't trying to compete on who has the biggest :lol

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