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Author Topic: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+ (SOLVED)  (Read 1998 times)

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perjmolsen

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Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+ (SOLVED)
« on: November 19, 2019, 04:25:32 am »
Hi

I got this Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 that is dead, so I am trying to repair it.
I have successful repair Hantarex Polo's, but newer a Polo/2, so I need some basic help with this one.

There is no ticking sound, completly dead.

I have tested the fuse, that is good.
Testtet OL from HOT middle leg to chassis.


I have no schematic for Hantarex Polo2, and it does not seem that the normal testpoints as in the Polo are present.

1. How do I connect the 40W bulb to test the B+ power supply? What do I need to lift?
2. Where do I test the normal volts? and what should they read?
3. If my PSU volts are OK, can I still de-solder leg3 on flyback to see if it the flyback is dead

« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 04:59:47 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2019, 02:37:18 am »
It seems tthat the PSU is putting out power

R32 = 23V
L6 = 15V


Tested the diodes after the PSU:
D6
D10
D11
D16
D44
D47

All where OK

I have tested the poly caps around the flyback:

C103
C99
C97
C96

They tested all ok

I traced the b+ from the 100uf 250V cap at the psu, If I do that I get all the way to flyback PIN3 with connectivity.
So I tried to de-solder the leg from pin3 and connect the bulb to pin3 . Then I got light, and 145V  :dizzy:

So I went back to test the 25V at R153, now i only see 8V and tested 16V at L6 there I now only have 0V  :hissy:

« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 02:39:39 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2019, 05:22:10 am »
Your second to last picture is confusing as you sucked solder off pin 1 not 3. Pin 3 is the b+ and 1 is the other end of the primary winding of the flyback that connects to the HOT collector. To test the b+ you need to suck solder off pin 3 (the correct one) and connect the bulb to the pad or something directly connected to the pad like R153 (as in the last pic) or more simply you leave the flyback alone and lift that side of R153 and connect the bulb to it.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 05:29:33 am by princess prin prin »

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2019, 06:25:15 am »
Hi

Have found out why my volts where low on R32 and L6.......... :hissy:

My battery in my multimeter where low on power!!!  :banghead:

Put in a new 9V battery - and tested

R32 = 23V
L6 = 15V
And B+ messured at R153 = 145V

So all my volts are OK. :applaud:

Next step is try to put in a new flyback (HR7191), and see  if I still have B+ because if i solder pin1 and pin3 at the current flyback, then my B+ is 0V
And the HOT is good, so it must be the flyback...there is no visual defects at the current flyback.

And one last thing.. how do I open the connector?
I have tried to pull and press on the tabs, but no luck
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 06:29:44 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2019, 06:47:27 am »
Check if the primary and secondary windings are shorted. 1-3-4 must be isolated from 5-6-8-9-10:

http://www.hrdiemen.com/reparation/flyback/scheme/7191

Check if pin 1 on the chassis (with flyback off circuit) is shorted to ground. You said the HOT and the high voltage caps are good but the damper diodes may not be. If you remove the HOT and bridge pin 1 and 3 on the chassis and the bulb lights up and b+ voltage is present there are no shorts (but HV caps/diodes may be open).

That socket is the worst type without a release mech. I would suggest to replace it. I can give you a free one if you pay for the shipping.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 06:55:07 am by princess prin prin »

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2019, 02:47:43 pm »
Hi

I have now put in a new flyback, and my +B at is way high 195V-200V
If I remove solder at pin3 at flyback, and put on a bulb, I get 145V B+

If i follow the Hantarex polo flowcart, it says to replace C114 (in my case I assume that is C18 it is at the same spot)
I have replaced the cap, but the B+ is still high with the flyback in place.
So the next step, is to test B+ at the collector T114 (in my case T22) its is also high.
Then I have tested for 12V at pin1 on IC104 (in my case IC6) there i only have 1.3V

So it seems that my 12V is missing, so where do I check for 12V an my Hantarex Polo/2 chassis - the normal Polo is TP10 - but no TP at my Polo/2

It would be so wonderful if I had a schematic over a Hantarex Polo/2, so that i could find the components on the 12V line
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 04:31:36 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2019, 03:06:42 am »
Your B+ is spot on so the power supply is fine and it makes no sense to replace parts there.

The problem is something in the horizontal drive circuit (starts at pin 4 of the TDA2595 and ends at pin 4 of the flyback) is not working as it should so the flyback does not work or it shuts off immediately because of the x-ray protection. Most likely some component connected to the HOT collector line is faulty or there's a crack in that area or the solder joints are bad.

Don't use the Polo schematics for reference as that chassis has different parts. The IC that generates the H drive pulse on the Polo is a TDA2593 but on the POLO 2 it's a 2595. Different pinout so your 12v check was pointless. The Polo 2 schematics you can find with google are of the automatic frequency switch version but most things are the same.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 03:49:06 am by princess prin prin »

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2019, 03:47:52 am »
Also, to use a 7191 flyback on this chassis you need to change the jumpers as shown here:

http://www.ukvac.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=368371&KW=&PID=1120284&title=the-new-hr-diemen-flyback-transformers#1120284
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 03:49:25 am by princess prin prin »

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2019, 03:38:33 am »
polo 2 auto schems

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2019, 03:25:42 pm »
Hi Grant and Princess prin prin

Thanks for all you help  :cheers:  :notworthy:

I have tried to see if I can figure out why my B+ is so high (185-190V) when the fly is mounted.

I have 12V at D12 (12V on the striped end and 11V at the other end) so my 12V is present.
I have tested D12 out of circuit, it tests fine.
Pulled out t15, t16 , t17 and t18 and tested them, they all test fine.
Found a bad trace at IC5 (TDA2595) - fixed it but still the same high B+

 :hissy:




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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2019, 03:35:47 pm »
you should check the poly hv caps

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2019, 03:46:45 pm »
also put the track back how it was for the time being- i will check one of my chassis tomorrow to see if it has the same mod

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2019, 04:18:16 pm »
Hi

I have tested all the poly caps around the fly - they tested OK - even also replaced them with some new, but still B+ is 185-190V
I have removed the jumper at the track :)

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2019, 04:31:16 pm »
you replaced the flyback?

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2019, 04:36:09 pm »
Yes I have tried to put the original flyback back (HR7191), but still the same issue, stil high B+
So it is not the flyback...

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2019, 06:42:43 pm »
check th2, should be about 1 ohm one side and 20 ohms the other
chech tr20

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2019, 04:59:08 pm »
Hi Grant  :notworthy:

I have looked almost everywhere but I can not find TR20... :hissy: :hissy:
I can fin T20... is that the component?

When i test TH2 i get 25ohm at one side and1 ohm at the other side, tested in circuit.

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2019, 05:20:31 pm »
yeah t20, switching for the horizontal drive transformer

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2019, 07:33:06 am »
Hi

Tested the T20 (BF419) tests OK in my tester.
Also tested T19 (bdx53a) tests also OK in my tester.

I have also tested that the TDA2595 gets 12V at pin 15, it get 11.4V


What do i overlook..  :banghead: I do not understand why my B+ is so high when fly is in, and fine when i test with a bulb as load...  :dizzy:

« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 07:49:01 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2019, 08:05:07 am »
HUSTON.... WE HAVE FOUND THE PROBLEM  :applaud:

I THINK we have a dead resistor...

R156 an  2K2J 7W resistor is OL!


It do not think that I have a 2.2k ohm 7w resistor in my parts boxes.. hmm

Would this 2 ohm 10W resistor be a good replacment?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32863720936.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.655a55e4LU9R0u&algo_pvid=e40acf40-22f1-41dc-be27-c5a418ebfb45&algo_expid=e40acf40-22f1-41dc-be27-c5a418ebfb45-50&btsid=6440fef2-fdfc-4509-ac91-3d4323bd4548&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6,searchweb201603_53
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 08:26:28 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2019, 09:17:03 am »
yes that would do it

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2019, 12:00:54 pm »
Take it from a Polo for a quick test.

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2019, 12:16:57 pm »
when i meant that would do it i meant the fault not the replacement resistor you sent the link for- you want a 2.2k same wattage


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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2019, 08:03:47 am »
Hi

An update

I have now replaced the R156 2.2 7W resistor with a new one.
Now my B+ is steady at 145V  :applaud:

And there is also picture, not a good one yet, but after I had turned the monitor on for about 10-15 sek, something blow up.  :cry:

It where the BY228 at D44 - It got really hot and blew up, I have changed it with a new one, and after 10 sek. "on-time", I can feel that it is getting hot and I tun the monitor off, so that it does not blow one more time.

What can cause the BY228 diode to get so hot and blow up?  :notworthy:

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2019, 01:58:28 am »
Recap your power supply circuit, if you have not done it yet

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2019, 05:29:03 am »
Recap your power supply circuit, if you have not done it yet

But my PSU volts are all OK when i use a 40W bulb as a test load?

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2019, 07:41:58 am »
I am not saying that recapping the chassis will 100% solve your issue, but you will have a better starting point going on with the troublreshoot. Leaking caps give all sort of bad behaviour and after 30-40 years it's good practice to replace electrolitics.

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2020, 05:42:04 pm »
Hi  :cheers:

Started looking at this chassis again, trying to figure out why BY228 at D44 gets hot, and I why my picture looks like the one below, (the picture is a bit dimmer than the photo below, camera adds a bit light to the photo)

I am unable to adjust the picture better than what you see.

I have changed the following caps, but it did not change anything
c17   220uf 50v
c18   22uf 50v
c25   22uf 50v
c31   470uf 35v
c32   220uf 25v
c106   47uf 250v
c92   4.7uf 250v
c11   100uf 250v
C9   150uf 400v
C87   1uf 100v
C88   4.7uf 100v


Tested
D44    by228
D47   BYW95C
C99   8.2 NF
C97   .33J 250
C96   4.7 NF

My B+ is 145V

I am thinking, that I might had put in the wrong flyback HR7191, even that the old one where a HR7191

A Hantarex polo/2 this chassis is a dural sync right?
So a HR7375 flyback is the correct flyback for this chassis right?



« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 05:55:16 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2020, 05:55:56 pm »
polo 2 auto or polo 2 15?
polo 2 auto is hr7375
polo 2 15k is hr7191
how do you tell, does it have the switching pcb in the power supply section

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2020, 06:01:12 pm »
polo 2 auto or polo 2 15?
polo 2 auto is hr7375
polo 2 15k is hr7191
how do you tell, does it have the switching pcb in the power supply section

HI  :cheers:

Hmm...switching pcb in the PSU...  :o
The PSU part look like this  :notworthy:

 

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2020, 06:04:49 pm »
hr7191 is required

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2020, 07:11:23 pm »
hr7191 is required

Ok thanks  :cheers:
I just tried another HR7191, the same issue, so ruled out the flyback.

Thinking the next step is to change the last electrolytic caps...it might be a bad cap, and its an easy fix if it is, and it may need a cap kit anyway

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2020, 07:15:08 pm »
or you need to adjust the horizontal hold pot or horizontal shitft

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2020, 07:24:07 pm »
or you need to adjust the horizontal hold pot or horizontal shitft

Tried to adjust the pots, I am unable to get the picture better.
I noticed that the H.AMP and KEYSTONE does nothing at all...

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2020, 07:33:16 pm »
look at all the diodes in the horizontal circuit

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2020, 05:35:59 pm »
look at all the diodes in the horizontal circuit

Hi Grant

Do you know where D31 is on the chassis.. I am unable to find it  :dizzy:
I have checked D27,D28 D38 and they are fine


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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2020, 06:06:59 pm »
check the width transistor

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2020, 04:55:43 am »
check the width transistor

It is the T19 right the bdx53a? - its tests also good

grantspain

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2020, 05:17:23 am »
just checked a polo 2 28 15khz chassis here
C101 3.3NF 1600V
C86  4.7K 250V
C99 8.2NF 1600V
C97 .33  250V
D44 BY288
D47 BYV95C

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Re: Hantarex Polo/2 25-28 Dead - how to test B+
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2020, 02:05:25 pm »
just checked a polo 2 28 15khz chassis here
C101 3.3NF 1600V
C86  4.7K 250V
C99 8.2NF 1600V
C97 .33  250V
D44 BY288
D47 BYV95C

Well I have found the issue... its my fault  :banghead:

C97 - I had put in a 333J cap, it should be a .33 cap.
Changed it, and now the picture looks better  :applaud:

But the picture is to wide and I am unable to adjust it.
So I am thinking that the C96 is the issue.
Currently I have a 472J cap in.
If I change it to a 4.7uf the picture is to small....


« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 02:20:06 pm by perjmolsen »