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Author Topic: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically  (Read 2847 times)

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be77amyX

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Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« on: August 20, 2019, 05:36:15 am »
Hi, I have a problem with my Hantarex monitor where the top inch of the screen is brighter than the rest of the screen and seems to squash the image. Playing with the vpos adjustment seems to stretch the image from the top edge instead of moving the full image. Any advice on this issue would be much appreciated? Thanks

edit: see image

« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 11:43:35 am by be77amyX »

be77amyX

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2019, 05:30:56 pm »
UPDATE: So I noticed the pot for Vshift felt a lot rougher than the rest so I swapped out the remote board with another one from a dead chassis and the brightness in the upper section seems to have disappeared but the geometry issue still remain.

here's a photo:

grantspain

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2019, 05:13:28 am »
it could be just a cap in the vertical circuit, possibly a faulty vertical ic

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2019, 05:50:21 am »
I think I replaced all the electrolytics when I first got the chassis (it's had this issue a while) what's the component number for the IC I could try swapping out with the scrap board I have? Btw that board had a busted lopt when I got it which I replaced but when I hooked it back up there was lots of arcing round the suction cup so I've never dared attach it to my good tube! What could cause that?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 05:53:06 am by be77amyX »

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2019, 07:32:40 am »
tda1675a at ic1
arcing around anode is either dirt around anode  or HT is too high

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2019, 04:56:49 pm »
Swapped out with the spare and the issue persists! what are the odds this one is faulty in exactly the same way? I could try a new one or test all the resistors in the area!

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2019, 05:22:18 pm »
was the chassis working fine at one point?

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2019, 05:38:16 pm »
honestly I'm not sure. It was dead when I first got it, there was a wire broken on TH1 which I managed to get soldered back on which brought it back to life. The distortion I'm seeing now was definitely there last time I tried to fix it but not as bad I don't think. I played a lot of Galaga on it which is now impossible cause when the enemies fly over the warped bit the flight pattern goes mental. Could it be a problem with the tube? I don't mind replacing every component on the chassis if I have to but I don't wanna do that only to find there's an issue with the tube!

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2019, 06:11:18 pm »
whats the reading of the vertical winding of the yoke? it should be around 12 ohms

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2019, 09:53:42 am »
reads 14.3 Ohms. The schematic says 15 Ohms so I guess this is OK?

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2019, 10:32:37 am »
yeah all good
read r46 and r40

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2019, 01:14:59 pm »
R40 - 118.8kOhm
R46 - 2.1 Ohm

R46 says its 1% tolerance, 1.8Ohm so shouldn't be that far out of spec should it? but R46 on my donor board reads exactly the same..

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2019, 02:30:08 pm »
check the value of all your caps on the vertical circuit
this sort of fault is extremely rare on 9000, tbh i have not seen this vertical issue except a bad ic once and i have repaired hundreds of these in last 30 odd years- this normally means its what someone has done to the chassis rather than failure

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2019, 07:12:43 am »
I hear ya  ;D, Checked the values of all the electrolytics on the board. they all match (higher voltage is OK right?). Gonna work my way through the rest of the components in that circuit now! considering getting a new IC1 because the one I've swapped in isn't proven!

Thanks for all this help btw! really appreciate you taking the time to help me out!

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2019, 07:25:28 am »
Checked all the resistors around IC1 and they all have the correct values when read with a meter. Pulled c12 and c13 as that looks to be related to vertical linearity from the TDA 1670a drawing in the manual and tested them on the ESR meter and they both showed up as 50nF instead of 100!? swapped them out with ones from my donor board and ended up with the image squashed down to half the size in the center of the screen!

So i replaced the caps with the ones I'd just removed to see if the fault returned to what it was before and now it looks like this!
V-Size fully one way

V-Size fully the other way


Unfortunately I damaged the donor caps removing them the second time so I've ordered replacement 100nF caps and a new TDA 1670a

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2019, 03:12:38 pm »
So newest update.. Got a new IC1 fitted, new c12, c13, tested all the resistors and diodes in the pic below and all the caps are the correct values! Still no luck! I did notice that B+ which the manual says should be reading 130v is only 107v with the power on and everything connected. is this correct or should I be concerned about this? I also replaced c53 as it looked like it hadn't been done


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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2019, 04:18:24 pm »
right, the b+ should be between 128-132
there is a resistor that will cause your issue R110 33k 1watt and i tend to use metal oxide
desolder the resistor and meter

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2019, 05:55:00 pm »
Desoldered and tested. reads 32.75kOhm. looks like the original part, worth replacing anyway?

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2019, 06:30:01 pm »
no thats fine, you need to id the low b+ though as it will cause issues like yours

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2019, 02:14:12 am »
So I guess my next step is to check every component in this area? and check the 128vAC incoming voltage?


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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2019, 04:46:26 am »
check
mains filter cap and TR19

i doubt regulator is bad otherwise you would have b+ too high

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2019, 04:00:31 pm »
Update: By 'mains filter cap' I guess your talking about c53? replaced that. TR19 looks good, shows as NPN transistor on my ESR meter and looks OK on the multimeter ( I believe it's a Darlington pair so tests out slightly different from a normal transistor? ) I took a look at TR20 too. Not sure if it's the correct part or equivalent? Its marked as ST F441 29009 which I can't find any info on online. It tests out OK though and my spare chassis which does have a TIPL762 in that location but shows a short from B-C!
Took some more voltage readings 165Vdc with the chassis disconnected, 152Vdc with the yoke disconnected, 115Vdc with everything connected.
Strange how the monitor drawings show AC input but the power supply gives you DC!

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2019, 04:09:03 pm »
Update: By 'mains filter cap' I guess your talking about c53? replaced that. TR19 looks good, shows as NPN transistor on my ESR meter and looks OK on the multimeter ( I believe it's a Darlington pair so tests out slightly different from a normal transistor? ) I took a look at TR20 too. Not sure if it's the correct part or equivalent? Its marked as ST F441 29009 which I can't find any info on online. It tests out OK though and my spare chassis which does have a TIPL762 in that location but shows a short from B-C!
Took some more voltage readings 165Vdc with the chassis disconnected, 152Vdc with the yoke disconnected, 115Vdc with everything connected.
Strange how the monitor drawings show AC input but the power supply gives you DC!

it goes through a bridge rec circuit

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2019, 05:56:33 pm »
Yeah sorry I see that. What I meant was the power supply from the US250 is DC before it goes through the rectfier ie. measured at the 4 pin power plug. I checked the power supply drawings and its supposed to be like that. just find it odd the monitor has a rectifier at all when the hantarex power supply is supplying DC

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2019, 08:02:48 pm »
the dc power from a u250 should be around 138-140v btw
i have used b508a to replace the tipl762 in the past, works fine

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2019, 10:52:47 am »
Is that measuring from the power plug with everything connected?

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2019, 11:02:19 am »
i read the u250 completely unplugged except mains input of course but you can read under load- it makes no real difference on these psu

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2019, 02:54:25 pm »
I get 165Vdc with the power supply disconnected, 152Vdc with the chassis connected but the yoke disconnected. The when I connect the yoke I get 132vDC at the power connector, 127vDC at SP3 and 115vDC at SP4 and beyond. Do you think my power supply could be the issue?

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2019, 03:03:39 pm »
impossible to say without looking at the chassis, the regulation circuit should sort out any issues but 165 from the u250 sounds high too me. i have seen them at 150 before and work fine
maybe you should think about servicing the u250 although i do not believe this to be the issue- might be might not, i doubt it though

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2019, 06:37:16 am »
Stripped out the power supply. nothing obvious wrong inside. hooked it up to a 60w light bulb and getting 137Vdc out so looks good! still only getting 115vDC on sp4 with it all hooked up although I can get it to 122 if I play with the 5v adjust on the power supply. doesn't seem to affect the picture though! Also I've checked everything in the regulator circuit apart from TR21, TR22 and ZD3 so I need to do them but haven't seem them mentioned in any forum posts about fixing these things!

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2019, 09:19:32 am »
well something is pulling the b+ down thats for sure

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2019, 05:20:51 pm »
So update! I wanted to test for faults so I rebuilt the circuit in multisim so I could put faults on every component to see what happens. So I used 145V because that was the no load voltage from my PSU and I got exactly the same voltages in the simulation so I don't think there's a problem on the chassis!
So I took the PSU apart and noticed a resistor and a diode soldered to the back of the PCB which aren't on the schematic. I desoldered the resistor and tested.. no change. I desoldered the diode and shorted something out with a flash  :-[ now PSU doesnt power up at all! soldered the diode back on.. still nothing. Tested all the fuses and all good but R2 getting super hot. Started testing some diodes and shorted something and blew F2!! Gonna replace F2 tomorrow but any idea what the likely victim of my first short that'd stop it powering up?





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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2019, 12:45:22 pm »
Replaced the fuse and instantly blew again. found TP3 shorted. Seems to be a BUV48 rather than a BUS48P as the drawing suggests. Can't seem to find anywhere to buy either? Is there a more readily available alternative anyone is aware of?

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2019, 04:11:21 pm »
Further update! Managed to get my hands on an isolated transformer power supply out of a scrap cab with a Hantarex 9000 in (with no chassis). hooked it up b+ solid at 135v with everything connected!! great! picture still the same (half the screen height with the bottom folded over) then slipped with the probe and shorted pins 2+3 together on the yoke plug cause that's the kind of week I'm having! magic smoke from around the TR18 area! Replaced TR18, R119 and R94, Powers on for a second then shuts down.. Lift a leg of D10 chassis stays powered up, neck glows but no picture on the screen. Just keeps going from bad to worse!!

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2019, 04:17:25 pm »
i think you should consider sending these items to an experienced tech

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2019, 03:23:43 pm »
I'm definitely gonna look into that if I don't have any luck soon! Scrapped the probes I was using with 2" of exposed metal tips and brought my fluke home so shouldn't be shorting anything now.

Current state of affairs is monitor powers on for split second then goes off. lifted D10 and power stays on. B+ is now 130v, also 130v at TR15 HOT. TP14 reads 245v (way high should be 190?) tested TR14, TR18, c40, c41, c36, r74, r77, d12, d13. All good. Gonna carry on checking components in this area unless there's some specific ones I should be hitting?

Also don't get a picture but if I turn screen control up on the LOPT I get a single horizontal line. Does this mean the LOPT is OK or can I not make that assumption?

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2019, 04:53:04 pm »
do you mean vertical deflection failure, is it mounted like a normal tv?

the worry for me is every time you touch this you make it worse, i want to help but not help you destroy it

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2019, 05:47:47 pm »
Yeah it looks like vertical deflection failure but only when I turn the screen control up. otherwise it's completely black.

Admittedly there's been a learning curve but I think we're making progress here! I'm learning a lot about how this stuff works and how not to test it!

Can I assume LOPT is Ok and the fault is within the vertical circuit? ie. around IC1? would the vertical deflection failure cause the over voltage protection to kick in?

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2019, 05:57:11 pm »
you should be looking at the 24 volts to the vertical ic, there is a safety resistor on the 24v line which i expect burnt out when you shorted the yoke- see if you can find it on the schems

and yes there is a scenario where the 24v missing will cause the x-ray protection to kick in

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Re: Hantarex MTC 9000 image squashed vertically
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2019, 11:25:33 am »
Looking at the schem I'm thinking R94 or R6 could be the safety resistor? R6 was ok, R94 was open (~5Mohm). Checked against my donor chassis and the resistor in R94 is physically larger but also seems to be out of spec at 14 Ohm? Gonna have to order a replacement, The schem says 1/2 watt, Is that the size you'd recommend?

Edit: been looking around for a replacement and seems to be recommended to use 1w. Is this a suitable replacement https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/through-hole-fixed-resistors/2140813/
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 11:44:19 am by be77amyX »