A052-1011-00 (red board) and U-HID

[funbobby]

Hi guys - I hate to ask a question that’s been covered so many times but I still have a problem after reading all the threads I could find so here goes....

I have an I-HUD and red board combo.  I’m interfacing the original Pole Position controls.  I went ahead and replaced the optical board with a new red board but couldn’t get any x or y movement in Windows so began to troubleshoot. 

1- there is 5.0 volts at the pin on the I- HUD before connecting red board
2- putting these 5 volts and ground to the red board I get 4.65 (measured on pos pin)
3- at either of the x pins on the red board I’m getting 4.40 when blocked and 4.34 when light path is open

From everything I’ve read, the red board should give me approx 5 and approx zero when blocked/unblocked so I convinced myself I had gotten a bad board and ordered another one.  Getting the exact numbers on the second board.  I’ve double and triple checked that I don’t have pos and ground mixed up.  I’m a noob to this so I’m hoping I’ve just mis-understood something.  It’s either that or I got 2 bad boards in a row both giving the exact readings (seems unlikely). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[PL1]

Hi guys - I hate to ask a question that’s been covered so many times but I still have a problem after reading all the threads I could find so here goes....

I have an I-HUD and red board combo.  I’m interfacing the original Pole Position controls.  I went ahead and replaced the optical board with a new red board but couldn’t get any x or y movement in Windows so began to troubleshoot. 

1- there is 5.0 volts at the pin on the I- HUD before connecting red board
2- putting these 5 volts and ground to the red board I get 4.65 (measured on pos pin)
3- at either of the x pins on the red board I’m getting 4.40 when blocked and 4.34 when light path is open

From everything I’ve read, the red board should give me approx 5 and approx zero when blocked/unblocked so I convinced myself I had gotten a bad board and ordered another one.  Getting the exact numbers on the second board.  I’ve double and triple checked that I don’t have pos and ground mixed up.  I’m a noob to this so I’m hoping I’ve just mis-understood something.  It’s either that or I got 2 bad boards in a row both giving the exact readings (seems unlikely). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Umm . . . you are asking about an Ultimarc U-HID, right?   

1. Verify the connections between the red board and the U-HID.



2. Are you sure the optos are being blocked by the encoder wheel?
- It's very odd that you get a slightly higher voltage when the opto is supposedly blocked.   
- Try blocking the optos with an index card.  Do the data lines go low?


Scott

[funbobby]

Yes, it’s the u-HID by Ultimarc (I keep calling it by the wrong name)

I’ve verified the connections, and the voltage I’m getting is from doing exactly that - l removed the optical board from the steering wheel and checked it with a multimeter while inserting/removing an index card. 

[funbobby]

I'll state exactly what I'm doing and maybe you can spot a mistake:

I have a +5v going from a 5v pin of the U-HID to pin 2 of the redboard
I have a ground pin going from a ground pin of the U-HID to pin 3 of the red board
I am using the multimeter (at the redboard) checking using pin3 (ground) and one of the output pins....checking voltage by inserting/removing a piece of paper

Thanks!

[PL1]

1. Let's eliminate the remote possibility of a U-HID configuration error:

- Leave the 5v and ground lines connected between U-HID and Red Board..

- Disconnect the data lines from the U-HID, but leave them connected to the Red Board.

- Do the data lines go low/high when you block/unblock the optos with an index card or are they still stuck at logic high?

2. Any shorts or damage to the wiring?

- Power off before checking non-continuity between the data lines and the 5v line, unless you want to kill your multimeter.   


Scott

[funbobby]

Ok, did these tests and:
1 - leaving 5v and ground lines from U-HID and disconnect the data lines from the U-HID, no they still don't go Low/High
2 - No continuity between data lines and 5v

Here's the thing....I just dug out the original Atari PCB and did the same test.  It goes Low/High as I block and unblock the optos.  When Unblocked I get 4.69 and when I block, it goes to Zero.  Now I'm pretty sure the original board won't work with the U-HID, but it really starts to look like the setup is good, but both of my red boards are bad???

[PL1]

Ok, did these tests and:
1 - leaving 5v and ground lines from U-HID and disconnect the data lines from the U-HID, no they still don't go Low/High
2 - No continuity between data lines and 5v

Here's the thing....I just dug out the original Atari PCB and did the same test.  It goes Low/High as I block and unblock the optos.  When Unblocked I get 4.69 and when I block, it goes to Zero.  Now I'm pretty sure the original board won't work with the U-HID, but it really starts to look like the setup is good, but both of my red boards are bad???

The original board (shown below) is an "active high" device.
- Red Boards and most other devices are "active low".

Andy mentioned that you can switch the OptiPac to work with "active high" devices.

Pg. 4 of the U-HID manual says you do that with the U-HID, too.

Unique separately-programmable “button down” and “button up” events allow use of all types of normally-closed, normally-open, or active high/low controls.

You might have configured your U-HID to work with active high devices, which would allow the original board to work, but make the active low Red Boards not work.
- That still doesn't explain why both data lines on both Red Boards are stuck high.   

i have a Pole Position and i am trying to hook up the Opti-Pac but i seem to not get any mouse movement... anyone have a how to or information on something i may be doing wrong.

X1 and X2 are the data lines.

Set your multimeter to Volts and check the following:

1. Is ground connected to the ground pin?

2. Is 5v connected to the 5v pin?

3. When you slowly turn the wheel, do the data lines alternate between logic high (near 5v) and logic low. (near 0v)
- A line that is stuck high or low points toward a bad opto. (or possibly a bad board)

This quadrature waveform shows what you would see on the data lines (A and B) when you slowly turn the wheel clockwise.



If both data lines are working but the Optipac still won't output mouse movements, check out this related thread. Andy's suggestion below.


Scott
EDIT: Didn't notice earlier that this optical board is an "active high" device.   

The PCB layout indicates the outputs are pulled high and float low.

This is the opposite to most setups and not the default of the Opti-PAC. But this can be changed using the utility for the Opti-PAC which can be used to set the type of inputs.

See http://www.ultimarc.com/optipac3.html for details.

Scott

[funbobby]

Thanks for all the info...

One thing I think I misled you on was about the original board - I didn’t mean to imply that the old card was working with the U-HID,  only that it was working as far as going high /low like it should.   If the old board worked with the U-HID I’d just use it.   Andy (Ultimarc) recently said I’d need an active low board, so that’s why I got the red board.

[PL1]

Maybe I misunderstood the quote above from pg, 4 of the manual.   


Scott

[funbobby]

Just wanted to put a final book end on this post in case someone searches it later.  Bottom line is that the U-HID and Redboard combination work great with all of the original Pole Position controls.  I returned the other Redboards and purchased another one,  although the voltage wasn't going from approx 0v to approx 5v it was fluctuating more than the others did.  I installed the redboard into the steering wheel.  I ran the USB Game Controller utility from Windows and expected movement from the X axis from the utility.  The Z axis was registering (wired to the gas pedal pot)....however,  there was no movement on the X axis from the controller.  But...when I spun the steering wheel, my main mouse pointer moved from left to right.  At this point, I don't know whether the other boards were truly defective or whether I just didn't notice the mouse movement before.   Other threads I read made me assume the movement would come from the "joystick" controller.   I guess I don't really care at this point, it works perfectly and handles the steering, gas pedal, gear shift, and coin door perfectly.

Thanks for the patience as this newbie struggled

[PL1]

I installed the redboard into the steering wheel.  I ran the USB Game Controller utility from Windows and expected movement from the X axis from the utility.  The Z axis was registering (wired to the gas pedal pot)....however,  there was no movement on the X axis from the controller.  But...when I spun the steering wheel, my main mouse pointer moved from left to right.  At this point, I don't know whether the other boards were truly defective or whether I just didn't notice the mouse movement before.   Other threads I read made me assume the movement would come from the "joystick" controller.

Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.   

The U-HID is a composite keyboard, mouse and gamepad device.
- Quadrature waveforms from optical spinners or 360 degree wheels are mouse inputs ==> mouse output.
- Variable voltages from potentiometers in analog pedals or 270 degree wheels are analog joystick gamepad inputs ==> gamepad output.
- Microswitch inputs can be either keyboard keystrokes or gamepad button presses.

BTW one thing that you might run into with a multi-game racer setup is that some front ends use Z-axis (i.e. the current un-centered gas pedal axis) to scroll through the game list.   


Scott

[funbobby]

Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.   

Scott

Oh....for sure that was on me!  You were clear, It just wasn't sinking in.    Thanks again for the help on it!