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Author Topic: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)  (Read 754 times)

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BadMouth

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Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« on: July 10, 2019, 07:06:34 am »
Youtube's recommendation algorithms were useless and just plain annoying for a while. 
Seems like they're coming back around.

This video about Sega's history with 3D effects before polygons popped up in my feed.
There are a lot of nice looking games in there which I haven't played enough.



pbj

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2019, 10:38:57 am »
It's interesting to play their 3DS release of Galaxy Force.  I think the sprite based 3D actually looks better with the 3D functionality of the console turned off.  Thunder Blade is another one that's a wash, too.



This forum needs more threads about Arcade 1Up cabinets.

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2019, 01:13:39 pm »
Youtube's recommendation algorithms were useless and just plain annoying for a while. 
Seems like they're coming back around.

This video about Sega's history with 3D effects before polygons popped up in my feed.
There are a lot of nice looking games in there which I haven't played enough.



That's been popping up in my feed a lot as well. Got it saved for a watch later at some point (last weekend being entirely taken up bingeing on s3 of Stranger Things).

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2019, 08:00:02 pm »
What about games like Final Lap or Suzuka 8h?

isamu

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2019, 01:23:18 am »
Will watch tonight. Thanks for the heads up BM  :cheers:

buttersoft

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2019, 07:56:05 pm »
What about games like Final Lap or Suzuka 8h?

Not Sega? I'd be interested to see some coverage of the other companies that were around as well, but the doco is pretty awesome as it stands :)


shakeheartbreak

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2019, 08:14:41 am »
Fun video to watch, thanks for sharing this.

Out Run and Super Hang-On were Yu Suzuki at the peak of his career, imho.  The thing is, that peak is so high there are still so many hits either side of it.

I can't say I share the presenter's enthusiasm for Outrunners though - I think it has more than just minor differences, imho that contribute to a majorly different feel.

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2019, 01:41:15 pm »
What about games like Final Lap or Suzuka 8h?

Not Sega? I'd be interested to see some coverage of the other companies that were around as well, but the doco is pretty awesome as it stands :)

There really isn't much point.  Sega dominated the arcade racer scene as hard as Nintendo dominates the portable market... as in almost completely.   Namco put up a valiant effort, and in the early days Atari and Midway were the go to guys, but that's about it.  Of course the arcade division of sega is virtually shuttered these days, so others have stepped up.   
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 01:44:23 pm by Howard_Casto »

buttersoft

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2019, 08:10:37 pm »
Sega dominated the arcade racer scene as hard as Nintendo dominates the portable market... as in almost completely.   

You won't find me disagreeing. Sega's hardware updates were always amazing, and they backed each up with hit after hit. But there are still games like Chase HQ and Wec Le Mans and others, and it'd be interesting to hear more :)

And I agree with shakeheartbreak - Outrunners is a nice game, and it's great that you can network it in Mame, but it doesn't have the same feel as the original.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2019, 11:18:01 pm »
I don't think Outrunners was even supposed to be an "outrun" game originally... they just thought the name might draw in more sales.  The scaling on that game is super impressive, but much like turbo outrun the feel is just off.  The reason sega was so great at racers is that they understood the arcade business model.... create an experience you can't get at home.  They did that again and again with impressive motion ride hardware and fun gimmicks.  Taito and Namco caught on once in a while, but it seemed almost random. 

It would be really fun to have a discussion about the progression of these games and what made them successful sometime. 

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2019, 10:02:37 am »
I don't think Outrunners was even supposed to be an "outrun" game originally... they just thought the name might draw in more sales.  The scaling on that game is super impressive, but much like turbo outrun the feel is just off.  The reason sega was so great at racers is that they understood the arcade business model.... create an experience you can't get at home.  They did that again and again with impressive motion ride hardware and fun gimmicks.  Taito and Namco caught on once in a while, but it seemed almost random. 

It would be really fun to have a discussion about the progression of these games and what made them successful sometime.

With only a few minutes available, I couldn't find whether Outrunners was originally meant to be an Outrun game or not.  However it didn't take long to discover that it wasn't AM2 developed - that pretty much says it all to me.  In fact, it's probably a really good example of why imitating the core elements of a game absolutely isn't what makes it special or shine.

Do both games involve racing a red car into the screen with branching routes?  Yes.  Is that what makes Outrun (and I'm sure we'd all argue its sequels as well) so magical?  Absolutely not, and yeah it would be fun to break that down!  I wonder if we'd all hone in on the same things?

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2019, 08:57:46 pm »
FWIW in Outrunners I find the handling too... slippery? sensitive? And the road too narrow. There's nothing relaxing about the game. Whereas Outrun 2 is relaxing again, even though not thes ame as the original.

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2019, 11:28:00 am »
I finally got around to watching this at the weekend, highly enjoyable. I never realised that Sega had previously made a Star Trek and a Buck Rogers arcade game!

I like Outrunners personally. I think Sega turned the wacky factor up to 11 on it, which comes across in the gameplay a bit too, which is possibly why it isn't to everyone's taste? If you turn the time limit up to it's maximum setting in each stage, then it takes a lot of the pressure off if you do crash and makes it more 'relaxing'. I like the crazy ideas in it too, like the trans-Atlantic tunnel and the Pacific Bridge. I like the inclusion of the (slightly remixed) original Outrun tunes in there as well.

Turbo Outun on the other hand I could never get into, I think it suffers from losing the branching tracks and the Turbo doesn't really add anything to the gameplay (unlike the turbo charger in Super Hang-On which is awesome and feels, and sounds, like you've just engaged the light speed thrusters!). Turbo Outrun gets ridiculously hard on the later stages as well. I played through it on MAME awhile back and towards the end of the game I was just continuously crashing and couldn't see anyway of figuring out if the bend coming up was going to be a sharp turn or not.

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2019, 08:52:07 pm »
What about games like Final Lap or Suzuka 8h?

Not Sega? I'd be interested to see some coverage of the other companies that were around as well, but the doco is pretty awesome as it stands :)

There really isn't much point.  Sega dominated the arcade racer scene as hard as Nintendo dominates the portable market... as in almost completely. Namco put up a valiant effort, and in the early days Atari and Midway were the go to guys, but that's about it.  Of course the arcade division of sega is virtually shuttered these days, so others have stepped up.
I feel I seen more Outrun cabs than Final Lap cabs (at least twin variants). Never ever played Final Lap in arcades before. I did play Suzuka 8h 2 recently and enjoyed that game more than Super Hang On (despite the two not easy to compare). It doesn't help the Final Lap games, Suzuka 8h games and Four Trax aren't full perfect in Mame and I hope to find more info about the link up feature on these games too (controlled by a custom).

Back on topic here, I'm surprised nobody mentioned Cool Riders on this thread but I'm pretty sure everyone knows how this game flopped.

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2019, 09:19:35 pm »
I finally got around to watching this at the weekend, highly enjoyable. I never realised that Sega had previously made a Star Trek and a Buck Rogers arcade game!

I like Outrunners personally. I think Sega turned the wacky factor up to 11 on it, which comes across in the gameplay a bit too, which is possibly why it isn't to everyone's taste? If you turn the time limit up to it's maximum setting in each stage, then it takes a lot of the pressure off if you do crash and makes it more 'relaxing'. I like the crazy ideas in it too, like the trans-Atlantic tunnel and the Pacific Bridge. I like the inclusion of the (slightly remixed) original Outrun tunes in there as well.

Turbo Outun on the other hand I could never get into, I think it suffers from losing the branching tracks and the Turbo doesn't really add anything to the gameplay (unlike the turbo charger in Super Hang-On which is awesome and feels, and sounds, like you've just engaged the light speed thrusters!). Turbo Outrun gets ridiculously hard on the later stages as well. I played through it on MAME awhile back and towards the end of the game I was just continuously crashing and couldn't see anyway of figuring out if the bend coming up was going to be a sharp turn or not.

Your experience mimics mine almost exactly. I too could never get into Turbo OutRun but OutRunners is a game have a lot of fun with. I do agree the road is a bit too narrow and the handling can be a bit questionable at times but the pixel art and those stage backgrounds are oh so lovely!

Oh and C'mon, which game has a cooler radio DJ than the guy in OutRunners? "We'll be here, same time babe!"

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2019, 10:58:08 pm »
The DJ was about 20 years ahead of it's time.  Pretty much every racing game produced these days has faux radio stations with similar DJ's. 

Dutsk

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2019, 10:43:13 pm »
I love outrunners, also because it is JAMMA. I just got a PCB off Facebook. But, am starting to figure out, without the proper cab - this is very hard to source controls to connect to the PCB (wheel/pedals).

I also would love to get a Cool Riders PCB, partially because itís so rare - and because itís so wacky - super odd stages !

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2019, 07:19:13 am »
Not that hard - actually, but it might end up lookin ratherÖ strange :D

I do all that stuff even without a Joystick ;)
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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2019, 10:51:19 am »
Outrunners wheel is essentially a 5K ohm potentiometer, so I think you can source it out easily ;)

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2019, 01:20:21 pm »
Yeah all racing games are either a collection of pots or a collection of pots and a rotary encoder.  Not particularly hard to adapt a wheel to work with another game. 

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Re: Before Polygons : Sega's Legacy of 3D (Youtube Video)
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2019, 01:23:08 pm »
Outrunners wheel is essentially a 5K ohm potentiometer, so I think you can source it out easily ;)

I have an old Daytona USA cab. Can I covert it to work with outrunners based on the pot size. Not entirely sure on the JAMMA pinout of outrunners but, this site gives some info.

Iíd likely need moles plugs to connect it properly
https://www.jammarcade.net/outrunners-repair-log-pinout/