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Author Topic: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal  (Read 3254 times)

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Gnerf

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Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« on: September 02, 2019, 11:21:25 pm »
This is hardly a new idea, but I haven't found any examples of it.

I'm designing a 4 player pedestal - 4 ultrastiks, a trackball, and a spinner.  The control panel will be hidden inside a piece of furniture that the top section will come off to reveal the panel.  Generally, it will sit up against a wall and look like a piece of furniture.  Okay, none of that is that interesting.

I was considering putting the joysticks along one side and the trackball and spinner along the other.  Depending on whether it will be used for a stick game or a non-stick game, the control panel (or the piece of furniture) is rotated on a plane parallel to the floor by 180 degrees (not flipped over - all controls are on one surface of the panel).  I figure this way to use the trackball and spinner, one doesn't need to reach past the sticks.  It also means the width of the panel could be somewhat reduced.  It could also allow for multiple spinners for something like Blasteroids or Super Sprint or less likely multiple trackballs for Rampart/Marble madness.

One problem I can see is angling the control panel, but I can solve that in the furniture.

Terrible idea?  Any reference to similar threads?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 11:28:51 pm by Gnerf »

Gnef

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2019, 11:03:01 pm »
Okay, some pics to try to get this idea across and maybe generate some ideas...

Yeah, I know this is a shedload of buttons which makes it mostly hideous, but it will be hidden when not being used.

Instead of rotating, it will just rock (forward/back) between the two positions and we will have to spin the entire device around.  I will use either a solenoid or other mechanical means to keep the panel in position.

Regarding the abhorrent skittles layout - not final, just something I threw together so that I could post a picture that might make sense of what I'm saying... I still need to model the pedestal, the rocker portion, and the pedestal cover.

The two buttons to the left of the stick are for Gauntlet purism.  The spinners have buttons for Blasteroids (on the right) and for Tempest on the left (only for the right spinner).  Trackball can use these as well.

The far right and left corners are player 1 through 4 buttons (or other).

Sticks are 16" between center left and center right sticks.  15.5" for the outside sticks.  Ustik360s with restrictor plates, Ultimarc trackball and ultrimarc spinners.  Sanwa 30 mm buttons.  Have a UHID or whatever the keyboard encoder was called back in 2012 when I actually purchased hardware.



Gatt

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2019, 12:08:39 am »
Honestly, you're not going to be happy with this.

Things that jump out at me...

-Spinner and trackball are too far forward, you're going to have to lean across the panel to use them, while keeping your other hand in the normal position.
-Your alternative is the opposite problem
-Your trackball position means you have to keep your trackball hand and button hand too close together, it'll be uncomfortable
-Those button layouts won't work, but you did note that

Honestly, the only way I've ever seen a fixed panel work is if it's only doing one thing, meaning it's either joysticks or trackball spinner.  You'll get annoyed with it fairly quickly and start working on something else.  My advice to you is...

1.  Make the control panel a removable box, make two and have the second one dedicated to trackball/spinner
2.  Make removable control panel tops, make two and have the second one dedicated to trackball/spinner
3.  Make a modular panel, and when the controls are all out, have the replacement make it look like furniture.

Quite honestly, if you're dedicated and good enough to be thinking about making it look like a piece of furniture, doing the modular panel would likely be easy for you and end up being nicer.  You can get it to really look like a tall table when not in use with modular. Especially if you put some tall fancy bar stools beside it and make it look like a sitting area.

Gnef

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2019, 12:50:11 am »
Thanks for the response...  The whole idea is that you are close to either the sticks or the trackball/spinner side.   Think about approaching that control panel from either side.   You can pick which side to stand on. 

So, when you want to use the sticks, you stand on the stick side.  When you want to use the trackballs and spinners you stand on that side.   Since we want the panel angled towards the user, it would rock forward or aft seven degrees (think seesaw).

Now I could have two displays in the room, but l would just pickup the whole thing and rotate it 180 degrees (walk in a circle).  That may require two people due to size and weight.  I could remove the panel, but it will be pretty ungainly as well.  My theory is that I tend to play the same game over and over again - like get in a Tempest rut for a while and then switch to something completely different.  Odds are it would be used from the stick side most of the time.

Yeah, modular would work as well.   It has the advantage of the modules being a lot lighter and I can create any layout I like.  The pedestal can probably have a more interesting shape as well.  Seesawing the panel means it is going to be pretty square unless I want to make even more work for myself.  Disadvantages are I have to put the modules somewhere and each module will be more work.

Still modeling.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 12:59:06 am by Gnef »

Mike A

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2019, 04:48:38 am »
There are way too many buttons on that thing and it is way too big. Make multiple CP tops and make the whole thing smaller and simpler.

Gnef

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2019, 08:18:02 am »
Alright, death to the giant table/buffet pedestal.

Osirus23

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2019, 11:01:21 am »
Which button ejects the warp core?

Mike A

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2019, 11:02:58 am »
If you ever watched Voyager the answer is all of them.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2019, 01:14:59 pm »
Heh, I got that reference.  :)

Back to the topic at hand....

Unless you are a really experienced woodworker you aren't going to be able to pull off the mechanisms you are describing.  Even if you do that layout just isn't going to work, even if you use it the way you say. 

Two joysticks, a set of buttons for each and two start buttons... that's all you'll ever use despite what you think. 

We are all just trying to save you time and money, but of course you are free to do what you want. 

Gnef

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2019, 01:36:34 pm »
Thanks.  I get the hate on buttons, but since the entire control panel is hidden, it's not like it's some hideous beast sitting in your room - well, until you take the cover off, but that's what sunglasses are for.

I am not overly concerned about the woodworking.  Have a wood shop and experience - just looking for a new project.   There are some minor concerns to address like where the control panel would interface to the apron where it flips back and forth, but the rest of the furniture would likely be more complicated than the top mechanism.

I guess I will go for a Gauntlet size control panel and make it possible to swap from a modified Gauntlet layout to others.  That gets me to playing soonest as I can skip building other modules until later (never)

leapinlew

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2019, 05:58:52 pm »
For a limited time, you can copy my control panel design free of charge.



http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,65141

Howard_Casto

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2019, 10:28:21 pm »
Lew all of those buttons better be rgb lit convex buttons with plastic chrome trim rings.   White marble contact paper for the overlay too.  :afro:

Laythe

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2019, 11:06:54 pm »
I kinda dig the idea of a double-ended pedestal control panel.  I think it could be done well.  I think it is a new idea, I've not heard it before.

If the display is always in the same place, I'd be inclined to make it rotate on a plane nearly parallel to the floor - but with the 7' offset baked into that plane.
IE, incline the lazy susan bearing by 7', instead of teeter-tottering the whole panel like a rocker switch.

You're going to need some devices for locking it in place in either play position no matter how you do it.
It might be slick if you could place the admin buttons and coin-ups on a second stationary layer above that covers the controls that aren't in use, to reduce the visual clutter of the thing.  (I guess clearing the sticks would be a pain, though.)

I like the idea, in theory.

I am no fan of that layout.  It seems like you are allocating lots of extra buttons just for the sake of putting them roughly where they would be physically located on the original panel of a dedicated game - which seems like you're a purist about how you play those games - but then what you end up with is not only way more buttons than the original dedicated panels had, but more buttons than the average oversized 4p frankenmame cabinet that offends purists has too.  You could type qwerty on that many buttons.

If you didn't anticipate guests using it, you wouldn't be building 4p - but you've also got a layout there that nobody but you is going to be able to remember the full mapping for.  A gauntlet panel will be a lot more understandable to use, and I think you may be happier with it.

In any case, welcome to the forum!

Gnef

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2019, 11:03:40 am »
Here's some more fodder for criticism. :blowup:

This is a slightly different concept.  This is 2 player only per pedestal and I would plan to make 2 of these - each with 2 sticks on one side and trackball or spinner or whatever on the other.  You can remove half the cover and a center section to access the controls and cup holders.  This has the advantage of reducing the complexity of the appearance over the seesaw version.

The buttons are mostly random again.  Ignore the hideousness of the cover that is set to transparent in the image.  I would need to rework the entire top to make it look like furniture.  I won't be able to get away from having 3 pieces (could go to two at best), but the top cover will only cover the center area and the sides will integrate into the legs.

I'm not sure if recessed buttons on top or buttons on the vertical face are best.  I think I like the top better as they would be accessible from both sides.  Also, I have a version with a single board splitting the two sides which cuts down on the depth by about 5 inches, but you lose the cup holders, recessed buttons and vertical button options.

I could also lose the cupholders and buttons and have the center section flush with the two covers.... not really arcade controller issues.

Mark

pbj

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2019, 11:07:30 am »
Dude, just make it 2 players with 1 trackball in the middle.  You have plenty of space on that panel to do it.

This forum needs more threads about Arcade 1Up cabinets.

Laythe

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2019, 08:40:38 pm »
I like that design better.  Thumbs up from me. 

PBJ's not wrong that the two sides would all fit in one, but if removable covers like that integrate well with your furniture idea I think they look nicer and will help keep the player experience simpler.

Edit:  If you want to play missile command, you might want 3 buttons on the trackball side.  I can't think of anything that uses a trackball and more than 3 buttons.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 08:43:24 pm by Laythe »

angryherbalist

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2019, 06:00:52 pm »
This is mine.

Osirus23

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2019, 11:04:11 am »
Vital for those 4p games that utilize 8 pushbuttons.

yotsuya

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2019, 11:17:55 am »
Vital for those 4p games that utilize 8 pushbuttons.

All 0 of them!!
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

opt2not

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2019, 02:23:57 pm »
This is mine.
:lol 
8 buttons on P3 and P4 is a total waste.

Mike A

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2019, 02:34:57 pm »
Well 2 or 3 buttons on a 17 acre panel would look silly.

javeryh

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2019, 11:57:20 am »
P3 and P4 are angled too.

opt2not

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2019, 02:19:36 pm »
P3 and P4 are angled too.

Yikes! All kinds of wrong with that panel.

yotsuya

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2019, 04:34:29 pm »
P3 and P4 are angled too.

Yeah, I saw that, but at this point, does it really even matter?
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

Osirus23

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2019, 07:34:26 pm »
Yeah I saw that right away too but was too jaded to bring it up.

Mr. Peabody

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2019, 09:54:22 am »
But that means one can step up to any of four spots and play EVERYTHING.

Jimbo

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Re: Probably not a new idea for a pedestal
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2019, 03:45:44 pm »
Dude, you'll get some criticism here posting pics of a frankenpanel like that.

But, I actually love the idea of standing on different sides to use different controls.  I think that's a first here, unless I'm mistaken.  Kudos.

I think Laythe said it earlier, so I may be echoing, but if the whole unit can rotate around so you don't need 2 screens, then do that.  Put wheels on the bottom, hide them, make it lock in place when stationary so it's solid and not wobbly on harsh play.  There should be no need to have to manually lift it up with 2 people!

Regardless of the control panels... you have a very cool idea.   :cheers: