*noob alert! Question about using pushbuttons vs 2 way stick for sidescrolling

[YouknowStuIlltellya]

First post ever.  Im a noob  to arcade building and I know I am in over my head, but its fun (most days)

Context: Im building a stand up classic arcade cabinet on RPi 3 B+.  Completed an order w/ GGG for my control panel.  GP Wiz 40 PCB, two dominux8 jstix (robotron - will be played 50% of the time), Leaf Pro true 4 way for most of the classics, groovy trackball, TT2 spinner, 14 leaf switches, 1/2 player buttons.  Yes, i know, gonna be a crowded panel and that is a good segue into my first rookie question:

Can two pushbuttons act as sideways scrollers for games like Jungle hunt vs having a two horizontal joystick (which i wont be able to fit)?

Next question,  - some context:  I order the GPwiz 40 to avoid soldering required for controls to GPIOs on RP3B+.  Am now worried because I stumbled upon a couple of forums indicating compatibility issues between RetroPie and the GPWiz40 - i guess around digital inputs vs analog?  On GGG GPW40 product page it reads "...Tested with 98SE, Win2K/XP, Windows 7 and Linux. Will also most likely work with other systems that comply with the the HID specification." 

Ok, so Raspbian is a "form of Linux", which led me to believe id be ok.  however several sites/forums ive happened upon have indicated major frustration using the GPW40 w/ RPi's 1, 2, 3 versions due to no HID?

The following link read like a different language to me so I could not understand what i could do.   https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/32197/can-the-pi-emulate-an-hid-device-with-via-usb 

Furthermore, Id just assume cancel the GPwiz40 portion of the order (as it hasn't shipped yet) and seek out another no-solder option.  Or please share if you feel that going to solder school is the path of least resistance vs seeking out a no-solder option for the RP3B+ sert up. 

If you happen to have good insight, can you reply as you would to a nongenius 7 year old? 

Thanks in advance and apologies for the length of post.  If i have violated the post length etiquette, please advise. 

[Howard_Casto]

To answer your first question, just use either of your joysticks and they'll play fine.  You see for 4 way vs 8 way games, yes, it's better to have a 4 way for the games that use it because hitting those diagonals causes unpredictable results, but this is NOT the case for 2 way vs 8 way sticks.  You might accidentally also hit up or down a bit while pressing left or right but those inputs aren't hooked up in the game anyway, so the left/right will still register and you'll be fine. 

I think you need to do a little more research before jumping in.  I mean the 14 buttons thing is a red flag right off the bat.

[YouknowStuIlltellya]

Thanks for your reply.

Re 14 buttons... 2 are not leaf but player 1 and 2.  The other 12 are six each player 1 and 2.  That said, I suppose I should also ask if the 2nd 8 way can map to player two on other games?  Honestly, if I wasn't so bent on having the best joysticks for robotron, I'd have probably just done the xarcade thing. So many things to consider on the controls and pcbs etc etc.  Seems like many noobs struggle on the roms and mame version, but I think I've got that all figured out based on hours of reading.

Good to hear that the 8 way (or 4 way too I assume) won't be difficult in two way games.

Ill hold my breath I get some answers on the gpwiz40 issue.  If I have to solder, this could go from fun to not funny really fast. 

[javeryh]

Ditch the pi and get a cheap computer if you are worried about compatibility issues.  You will also get more out of your cabinet and will be able to run more current versions of MAME

[YouknowStuIlltellya]

Ditch the pi and get a cheap computer if you are worried about compatibility issues.  You will also get more out of your cabinet and will be able to run more current versions of MAME

Funny, i went w/ the PI because was told for a tech moron (me) building an arcade cabinet, it will make it easier given retropie makes it all pretty intuitive once you do the wiring.  Then i had to get all fancy and buy top of the line buttons and controllers and GPWizzes and TT2 spinners w/ its own interface that probably wont work w/ PI, either. 

I keep reading about mods and middle emulators (you need a front end, middle, and back end? WTF?), and soldering wires to mother boards to PCBs to PCIs to rotary x's.  Im in over my head.  You do these youtubes and the guys make it look so easy but they dont have the problems as everyone on these forums... and they dont sound that techy.  I dont want a mod.  I dont want to solder.  I dont need to tweak the switch to make the throw longer.  I dont need a restrictor plate to turn an 8 way into a four way that doubles as a beer tap.

I want to take the dominux8 joysticks and buttons that i bought from groovy game gear w/ all the wiring that was pre-done and i want to hook it up to a little mother PCB whatever board.  I want to take said board and run a USB into a piece of hardware with an OS - which I thought was going to be Rasp Pi.   

Someone mentioned xin mo on another thread.  Any thoughts to that one playing nice w/ PI? 

[Mike A]

If you don't want to learn anything at all then you should hire someone to build for you.

That is not quite what I wanted to say. It sounds like you don't want to do the considerable amount of legwork that this takes. Sometimes the best option is to buy a cab or hire someone to build for you.

I drive a car everyday that I did not build from scratch. I bought a computer off the shelf. Sometimes you just want something without having to figure out how to build it.

[wp34]

Howard is right that you should slow down and do some more research.  It can seem very daunting at first but really getting a machine wired and up and running is fairly simple once you know how everything works.  If you have an PC download Mame and get it working with your keyboard first.   Then plug in that WPWiz and wire up your joystick and a couple of buttons.  Take some baby steps.    Sorry I missed that you had already bought a Pi. I'm a Jon Snow "know nothing" when it comes to the Pi.

Also read through some build threads.  Here is a great place to start -

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,103103.0.html

 

[DrakeTungsten]

Instead of looking for an encoder you are 100% sure will work with your Pi, I would suggest finding a computer that is 100% certain to work with your encoder, which would be just about anything other than the Pi (and I'm not saying the Pi will or won't work - I don't know).  You've got the Pi, so I say take delivery of the GPWiz, and if it doesn't work with the Pi, you should be able to find a cheap PC with more horsepower than the Pi anyway. Chances are you can find another project for the Pi. I know you said you're non-techie and probably think there's nothing you can do with a spare pi, but still, I bet you take your tech interests a bit further after finishing your cabinet.

[javeryh]

Ditch the pi and get a cheap computer if you are worried about compatibility issues.  You will also get more out of your cabinet and will be able to run more current versions of MAME

Funny, i went w/ the PI because was told for a tech moron (me) building an arcade cabinet, it will make it easier given retropie makes it all pretty intuitive once you do the wiring.  Then i had to get all fancy and buy top of the line buttons and controllers and GPWizzes and TT2 spinners w/ its own interface that probably wont work w/ PI, either. 

I keep reading about mods and middle emulators (you need a front end, middle, and back end? WTF?), and soldering wires to mother boards to PCBs to PCIs to rotary x's.  Im in over my head.  You do these youtubes and the guys make it look so easy but they dont have the problems as everyone on these forums... and they dont sound that techy.  I dont want a mod.  I dont want to solder.  I dont need to tweak the switch to make the throw longer.  I dont need a restrictor plate to turn an 8 way into a four way that doubles as a beer tap.

I want to take the dominux8 joysticks and buttons that i bought from groovy game gear w/ all the wiring that was pre-done and i want to hook it up to a little mother PCB whatever board.  I want to take said board and run a USB into a piece of hardware with an OS - which I thought was going to be Rasp Pi.   

Someone mentioned xin mo on another thread.  Any thoughts to that one playing nice w/ PI?

I am about as non-techie as they come and I figured it out so anyone can.  It's not as hard as it may look to hook everything up.  You just need a front end to launch games.  I don't know what a middle end or back end is.  Basically, you install MAME and you install the front end of your choice on your PC.  You point the front end to your ROM folder (this is done during set-up and is extremely difficult to mess up).  You launch the front end, which just makes your game folder look all pretty and when you select one of the games on the list, the front end launches the game.  The wiring is all done via the encoder, which is self-explanatory (daisy chain ground and hook up buttons/joysticks independently back to the encoder) plugged into the computer via USB.  Trackballs and spinners just use separate encoders but it will all get recognized as USB devices plugged in to the PC.

You can get fancy with Windows - there are scripts to get the PC to boot straight into the front end (launch it at start-up) so it "hides" the fact that there is a PC in your cabinet and you can wire a pushbutton to the back of the cabinet to turn everything on and off.  It's all fairly easy and each step has been done a ton of times so if you have questions people can walk you through it.  Just keep reading project threads (sort by # of posts so you are more likely to see completed projects).

[leapinlew]

It's gotten a little spendy, but this book was written by the owner of this site: https://www.amazon.com/Project-Arcade-Build-Your-Machine/dp/047089153X

An Arcade game requires lots of different skills. Bite into small chunks and you'll be playing before you know it.

Step 1 - 99. Review lots of the build logs on the Project Announcements page. That'll help you understand lots of the questions you are asking.

I've seen these tips doled out over the years:
Try converting an existing arcade. It saves lots of time on the wood working
Build just a control panel. Smaller = less money investment and allows you to get familiar with all the different skills


Good luck

[YouknowStuIlltellya]

If you don't want to learn anything at all then you should hire someone to build for you.

That is not quite what I wanted to say. It sounds like you don't want to do the considerable amount of legwork that this takes. Sometimes the best option is to buy a cab or hire someone to build for you.

I drive a car everyday that I did not build from scratch. I bought a computer off the shelf. Sometimes you just want something without having to figure out how to build it.

I've done substantial legwork and learned A TON, but I also like to be married so there are limits from a time perspective.  RE buying a cab- i know wood.  There won't be any posts asking how to route the slot for the t-molding, or how do i mount the monitor flush or how do i drill holes for the pushbuttons.  But apparently, i may need to bring in an engine technician.  I dont know.  The guys on youtube who were setting up a Pi arcade cabinet made it look very very easy.  I know i've over-complicated some aspects of this.

[Mike A]

If that is the easy part for you then maybe you should look into wiring your cab for JAMMA. Get yourself a Pandoras box or one of the other multi PCBs. They plug right into a JAMMA harness. They don't have to be programmed. They don't need any extra software.

[YouknowStuIlltellya]

Instead of looking for an encoder you are 100% sure will work with your Pi, I would suggest finding a computer that is 100% certain to work with your encoder, which would be just about anything other than the Pi (and I'm not saying the Pi will or won't work - I don't know).  You've got the Pi, so I say take delivery of the GPWiz, and if it doesn't work with the Pi, you should be able to find a cheap PC with more horsepower than the Pi anyway. Chances are you can find another project for the Pi. I know you said you're non-techie and probably think there's nothing you can do with a spare pi, but still, I bet you take your tech interests a bit further after finishing your cabinet.

Thanks very much and am leaning this way.  I can return the cana/pi kit for a refund.  Just need to find a cheap windows PC.  Shouldnt be too difficult.  The spectrum of advice is quite wide in this hobby.  I was told that Pi would dummy proof this for me.  Oops.

[Mike A]

With the multi PCB you don't need an encoder, a PC, or a Pi. With the JAMMA wiring it would be easy to upgrade from the multi PCB to a PI or PC at a later date.

[wp34]

It's gotten a little spendy, but this book was written by the owner of this site: https://www.amazon.com/Project-Arcade-Build-Your-Machine/dp/047089153X

An Arcade game requires lots of different skills. Bite into small chunks and you'll be playing before you know it.

Step 1 - 99. Review lots of the build logs on the Project Announcements page. That'll help you understand lots of the questions you are asking.

I've seen these tips doled out over the years:
Try converting an existing arcade. It saves lots of time on the wood working
Build just a control panel. Smaller = less money investment and allows you to get familiar with all the different skills


Good luck

It is funny how times change.  Years ago suggesting Saint's book would have been the first thing anybody would have done.  That book really helped me get started initially.

[javeryh]

It is funny how times change.  Years ago suggesting Saint's book would have been the first thing anybody would have done.  That book really helped me get started initially.

Me too.  Read it multiple times - I still remember how exciting it was to learn people were actually building their own arcade cabinets!  A lot of what is in the book probably still applies.

As for the pi being "dummy proof" it kind of is if you can find an image online that you like and is all set up.  I mean all you have to do is put the image on the memory card, pop it in and that's literally it.  The rest is just hooking up controls but any USB controller will work (SNES, Xbox/PS controllers, etc.).  The problem with the pi is customizing it to do what you want plus the fact that not all games/emulators run that well.  It is super easy to get up and running though.

[Howard_Casto]

The pi is idiot proof if you use a "standard" control scheme and only want to run mame and the emulators that run on retro arc.  The more you deviate from that the more complex things will become.

That being said, everybody thinks they want every control in existence starting out, then they do research and think they've really narrowed it down....but they haven't.  99% of people will just use a joystick (8 way or 4/8 way switchable) and 4-8 buttons per player on a two button cab.  Sometimes it's nice to play those oddball games that use other controls but it usually isn't worth the clutter you get on your control panel if you just start adding every little thing.  My suggestion is that firstly cardboard is your friend.... you can make a decent cp out of it and it'll hold up long enough for you to tell if the layout is going to work.  Secondly by extra plywood for multiple cp revisions and don't make an overlay until you've lived with it for a while. 

I'm at the stage where I just build/buy a cab for those specialty games.  I need to do an ikari warriors build one of these eons.