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Author Topic: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?  (Read 1060 times)

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OTT

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Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« on: April 26, 2019, 12:18:19 pm »
I was wondering what are the differences between the Omni2 stick by GGG and the Mag Stick (Plus) by Ultimarc (not considering that the latter has a magnetic centering):

being the two joysticks derived form the same Sanwa JLW, there are differences in "feeling"? Different throw/engage? Noticeable (and different) defects? Other?


Has someone tested and compared the two? Which is better in your opinion?

Also, for classic games and as "all round" performer, which one do you think is better between the two JLW knock-off and the "grommet+leaf switches" Dominux8?


Thanks for your feedback!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 12:20:23 pm by OTT »

jeremymtc

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2019, 05:44:17 pm »
The Mag Stick is not based on the JLW. It is an IL product and doesn't really share any architectural elements with anything else. Mag Sticks are very, very short-throw and feel completely different in operation to anything else out there. Good for shooters and nice in terms of the top-switching function, but doesn't really excel in other genres.

I've not used the Omni2 but I have no doubt that it would be the better choice for use in classic games.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 05:47:34 pm by jeremymtc »

OTT

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2019, 06:06:48 pm »
The Mag Stick is not based on the JLW. It is an IL product and doesn't really share any architectural elements with anything else. Mag Sticks are very, very short-throw and feel completely different in operation to anything else out there. Good for shooters and nice in terms of the top-switching function, but doesn't really excel in other genres.

I've not used the Omni2 but I have no doubt that it would be the better choice for use in classic games.


You are right, I had J-Stick in mind for some reason (too many #$%-Stick in Ultimarc catalog  ;D )

Anyway thank you for sharing your thoughts!

Titchgamer

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2019, 06:38:23 pm »
Never used a Omni so cant comment on them.

But the Mag sticks are great IMO.
I really like the snappyness of them with the short throw and stiff magnetic centering.

The 4 way is really good, the 8 way is average but I really wish it was a octo gate in 8 way but thats my only real dislike.

OTT

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2019, 06:56:04 pm »
Never used a Omni so cant comment on them.

But the Mag sticks are great IMO.
I really like the snappyness of them with the short throw and stiff magnetic centering.

The 4 way is really good, the 8 way is average but I really wish it was a octo gate in 8 way but thats my only real dislike.

Thank you for the feedback!

Of course personal preferences matters a lot: personally, I'm not sure I'd like the very short throw of Mag Stick (I never used one myself but saw few videos).

What interest me is the comparison with Omni2: strangely enough, so far there are still no reply by people who have had experience with this joystick.

And I'm even more curious about Dominux8, particularly if it could be a good "all round" joystick (better than JLW/LS-32/LS-40?) that can play both arcade classics as well as, for ex., old home computers games (C64, Amiga, etc.)

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2019, 04:24:01 am »
Dominux8's feel great for things like shooters and Robotron etc... but you really have to fiddle with the leaf switches to get the engage distance just right else you end up hitting the diagonals too easily, or not enough.  It takes a while to get it right, but once done it's worth it in my opinion.  The stock position of the leafs means you hit the diagonals far too easily for some games (imo).

Id say you buy a dominux8 for a specific type of game and tailor it for that (i.e. for me it's shooters), and it's really great for that.  I'm not sure how they'd hold up as an all-round stick, but maybe someone else can chime in on that.

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2019, 04:55:54 am »
Dominux8's feel great for things like shooters and Robotron etc... but you really have to fiddle with the leaf switches to get the engage distance just right else you end up hitting the diagonals too easily, or not enough.  It takes a while to get it right, but once done it's worth it in my opinion.  The stock position of the leafs means you hit the diagonals far too easily for some games (imo).

Id say you buy a dominux8 for a specific type of game and tailor it for that (i.e. for me it's shooters), and it's really great for that.  I'm not sure how they'd hold up as an all-round stick, but maybe someone else can chime in on that.

Thank you for the feedback, Jimbo! I remember your wonderful "Jimbovision"  ;) I'm still dreaming to use your joystick/control lighting system, someday  :notworthy:

Yes, I agree that due to the nature of the leaf switches and the peculiar features of Dominux8, the joystick would be really perfect if tailored for every single game. However, since this wouldn't be exactly comfortable, it makes more sense for me to rephrase the question to "it is possible to adjust the Dominux8 so that can be fine for a large number of games, of a wide range of types? Or does it really require fine tuning for every single game or different type of game?"

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2019, 01:00:43 pm »
Dominux8's feel great for things like shooters and Robotron etc... but you really have to fiddle with the leaf switches to get the engage distance just right else you end up hitting the diagonals too easily, or not enough.  It takes a while to get it right, but once done it's worth it in my opinion.  The stock position of the leafs means you hit the diagonals far too easily for some games (imo).

Id say you buy a dominux8 for a specific type of game and tailor it for that (i.e. for me it's shooters), and it's really great for that.  I'm not sure how they'd hold up as an all-round stick, but maybe someone else can chime in on that.

Thank you for the feedback, Jimbo! I remember your wonderful "Jimbovision"  ;) I'm still dreaming to use your joystick/control lighting system, someday  :notworthy:

Yes, I agree that due to the nature of the leaf switches and the peculiar features of Dominux8, the joystick would be really perfect if tailored for every single game. However, since this wouldn't be exactly comfortable, it makes more sense for me to rephrase the question to "it is possible to adjust the Dominux8 so that can be fine for a large number of games, of a wide range of types? Or does it really require fine tuning for every single game or different type of game?"

Hah, thanks - I'll get Jimbovision finished one day ;)

I think it's probably just about possible to get a sweet spot in the leaf switch positions to be "fairly good" in all games.  I guess you could only really know by buying one (or borrowing one) and testing it :)

Good luck!

OTT

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2019, 01:23:33 pm »
Dominux8's feel great for things like shooters and Robotron etc... but you really have to fiddle with the leaf switches to get the engage distance just right else you end up hitting the diagonals too easily, or not enough.  It takes a while to get it right, but once done it's worth it in my opinion.  The stock position of the leafs means you hit the diagonals far too easily for some games (imo).

Id say you buy a dominux8 for a specific type of game and tailor it for that (i.e. for me it's shooters), and it's really great for that.  I'm not sure how they'd hold up as an all-round stick, but maybe someone else can chime in on that.

Thank you for the feedback, Jimbo! I remember your wonderful "Jimbovision"  ;) I'm still dreaming to use your joystick/control lighting system, someday  :notworthy:

Yes, I agree that due to the nature of the leaf switches and the peculiar features of Dominux8, the joystick would be really perfect if tailored for every single game. However, since this wouldn't be exactly comfortable, it makes more sense for me to rephrase the question to "it is possible to adjust the Dominux8 so that can be fine for a large number of games, of a wide range of types? Or does it really require fine tuning for every single game or different type of game?"

Hah, thanks - I'll get Jimbovision finished one day ;)

I think it's probably just about possible to get a sweet spot in the leaf switch positions to be "fairly good" in all games.  I guess you could only really know by buying one (or borrowing one) and testing it :)

Good luck!

Thanks, I'm so tempted that probably I will end up buying one. I wrote to Randy for some advice, hope he'll answer soon...

Wish you all the best for your really wonderful and innovative Jimbovision  :applaud:

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2019, 05:19:21 am »
You could read the Reviews forum, particularly on the Dom8.....

Also.....

OTT

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2019, 08:47:02 am »
You could read the Reviews forum, particularly on the Dom8.....

Also.....

First, let me thank you for your advice/support.

Yes, I had read already all the posts about Dominux8 available on this forum: however I did not find a definite answer to my exact question nor a clear indication that the Dominux8 is actually and perfectly suited to my needs (explained above). What I learned is that the joystick is for sure high quality (parts) with solid build and that basically 9 out of 10 owners are more than satisfied with it. Also, the joystick is perfect for classics arcade, but this much should be expected taking into account its features and the very reason why it was designed / offered on the market.

The only (real) complains I found regards the throw: some people said that at default it's too long while other said that the circular restrictor (optional) limit the throw too much: I suppose that the thickness of the panel where the joystick is mounted has some influence here, as well as the personal style of play (of course). For such reason, I'm seriously evaluating the option to make a custom metal mounting plate for the Dominux8 and do exactly what Jimbo did in his Jimbovision. My panel will be MDF and was thinking about a thickness of 18mm, thus going for the "long shaft setting" (see GGG website for info): any opinion about this would be appreciated because nothing at the moment is setted in stone.

Lastly, I looked at your comparison chart (thanks!) but I'm not quite the tech guy, so I'm not entirely sure to understand the parameters reported there and what are the "best" values for my needs. I suppose that a close reference for the Dominux8 (not present in the comparison, as well as the Omni2) could be the Wico Leaf: in this case I think that I should be happy, because basically I can tune every parameter except the travel, therefore being quite confident to be able to properly set the joystick to my liking.

About the travel, the Wico Leaf has an intermediate value that should be fine with me: for ex., I see that Mag Stick Plus has 6 and I know for sure that I would not like the ultra-short travel of this joystick because I saw it in action. So, the value of 10 reported for the Wiko should be ok for me. Now, I don't know how much the Dominux8 will differ but I hope/think it should be quite close.

For the exact opposite reason, I know that all Happ joysticks are a no-go for me: too much travel, with an intermediate value of 15 (being the Perfect 360 the only exception). Other parameters are also good (still Wiko Leaf as reference), like the sound (of course!) and the diagonals (3 out of 5 is adequate, even more considering that the only joystick that get a 5 here is the Perfect 360, and for obvious reasons).

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2019, 10:15:45 am »
With my Jimbovision project, if I could go back - instead of thick plywood or MDF panels, I'd have gone metal (2mm or 2.5mm mild steel).  It would have saved so much time and agro making specific mounting plates etc, (which then have to recessed and filled/sanded).   Right pain in the arse that.  If you can, my advice is metal panel for the Dominux8's, definitely.  Get it cut to size off ebay and half the work is done.  :cheers:

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2019, 10:39:38 am »
With my Jimbovision project, if I could go back - instead of thick plywood or MDF panels, I'd have gone metal (2mm or 2.5mm mild steel).  It would have saved so much time and agro making specific mounting plates etc, (which then have to recessed and filled/sanded).   Right pain in the arse that.  If you can, my advice is metal panel for the Dominux8's, definitely.  Get it cut to size off ebay and half the work is done.  :cheers:

Thank you for the precious advice, Jimbo!

I will think about it: to be frank, I'm not a fan of metal panels but the way you put things prevents me from rejecting the idea "a priori"  ;)

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2019, 11:32:16 am »
Haha... I think all my control panels from now on will be metal!  Good luck  :cheers:

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2019, 02:17:04 pm »
I've been using D8's for a few years and I think they're outstanding.

That's not to say they're the perfect choice for every kind of game, though, as no joystick is. 

Initially I bought them to replace a pair of Happ Competitions on a 2-player 8-way setup, mostly to improve the Robotron experience.  That panel is 5/8" MDF and the joysticks are bottom-mounted (no routered pocket).  I ordered the round restrictor to keep the throw a bit more snappy on the thick panel. 

They worked OK in this setup, but eventually I decided to move the Competitions back to that panel and build a separate Robotron panel using the D8's with closer joystick spacing (10" if I recall correctly.)  I ditched the round restrictor and top-mounted the D8's to 3/4" wood using ad hoc mounting plates I fashioned out of electrical junction box covers.  The top-mount with no restrictor provided a very comparable feel to the bottom-mount with restrictor.   

Shortly after doing that, I sat down and monkeyed around a bit with the leaf switch adjustment on the D8's and this is when they REALLY started to shine.  After 3-4 iterations of minor tweaks to the switches, it was joyous.  I did a quickie adjustment when the sticks were new but never revisited it to tweak it at all.  I don't know why I was missing out big time.  Bottom line: if you buy D8's, SPEND A HALF HOUR TWEAKING THEM.  It's not difficult, and it makes them really sing. 

Now, with dialed-in switch adjustment and nice comfortable spacing, twin stick games (Robotron, Smash TV, Total Carnage, Black Widow, etc.) are a blast, and very faithful (all things considered) to the real thing. 

The D8's are also outstanding (IMO) for shoot-em-ups.  Which makes sense, because a lot of the traits that are desirable in a Robotron stick are desirable in a shooter stick (precise movements, twitchy response to dodge stuff, etc.)

They're also totally fine with side-scrolling beat-em-ups, although I don't feel that they provide any real advantage in games like that. 

I wish I could provide an educated comment on their suitability for one-on-one fighting games, but I really can't.  I just don't ever play those games and don't really care.  I will say though that I *suspect* the D8's - at least, the way I have mine set up - would not be a top choice for fighting games.  I think something with a bit of tactile feedback based on joystick position (such as my Happ Comps) would be better, but again, I don't really care either way. 

Another thing is, in my opinion the D8's aren't a very good choice of 8-way if you plan to "fake it" using an 8-way joystick to play 4-way games.  I can much more easily manage this with the Comps.  But a joystick's efficacy at faking something is probably not a good criterion for judging it.

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2019, 02:45:07 pm »
I've been using D8's for a few years and I think they're outstanding.

That's not to say they're the perfect choice for every kind of game, though, as no joystick is. 

Initially I bought them to replace a pair of Happ Competitions on a 2-player 8-way setup, mostly to improve the Robotron experience.  That panel is 5/8" MDF and the joysticks are bottom-mounted (no routered pocket).  I ordered the round restrictor to keep the throw a bit more snappy on the thick panel. 

They worked OK in this setup, but eventually I decided to move the Competitions back to that panel and build a separate Robotron panel using the D8's with closer joystick spacing (10" if I recall correctly.)  I ditched the round restrictor and top-mounted the D8's to 3/4" wood using ad hoc mounting plates I fashioned out of electrical junction box covers.  The top-mount with no restrictor provided a very comparable feel to the bottom-mount with restrictor.   

Shortly after doing that, I sat down and monkeyed around a bit with the leaf switch adjustment on the D8's and this is when they REALLY started to shine.  After 3-4 iterations of minor tweaks to the switches, it was joyous.  I did a quickie adjustment when the sticks were new but never revisited it to tweak it at all.  I don't know why I was missing out big time.  Bottom line: if you buy D8's, SPEND A HALF HOUR TWEAKING THEM.  It's not difficult, and it makes them really sing. 

Now, with dialed-in switch adjustment and nice comfortable spacing, twin stick games (Robotron, Smash TV, Total Carnage, Black Widow, etc.) are a blast, and very faithful (all things considered) to the real thing. 

The D8's are also outstanding (IMO) for shoot-em-ups.  Which makes sense, because a lot of the traits that are desirable in a Robotron stick are desirable in a shooter stick (precise movements, twitchy response to dodge stuff, etc.)

They're also totally fine with side-scrolling beat-em-ups, although I don't feel that they provide any real advantage in games like that. 

I wish I could provide an educated comment on their suitability for one-on-one fighting games, but I really can't.  I just don't ever play those games and don't really care.  I will say though that I *suspect* the D8's - at least, the way I have mine set up - would not be a top choice for fighting games.  I think something with a bit of tactile feedback based on joystick position (such as my Happ Comps) would be better, but again, I don't really care either way. 

Another thing is, in my opinion the D8's aren't a very good choice of 8-way if you plan to "fake it" using an 8-way joystick to play 4-way games.  I can much more easily manage this with the Comps.  But a joystick's efficacy at faking something is probably not a good criterion for judging it.

Thanks for chipping in... I agree with pretty much everything you've said.  They really are good for shooters.  I too couldn't care less about fighting games and hence don't know how they'd fare (nor care).  But yes, definitely spend a good while tinkering until you get it just right.  That's when you know you've bought the right sticks :)    For the record, I have NO restrictor on there (smooth circular) and they are bottom mounted on a 2mm thick metal panel in the short shaft length on my bartop and my work's arcade machine.  Totally rock for Robotron and pretty much all shooters.

I tried them with the 4-way restrictor for pac-man etc, and hated it.  Ended up with a pac-pro which I couldn't be happier with.

OTT

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2019, 04:13:16 pm »
I've been using D8's for a few years and I think they're outstanding.

That's not to say they're the perfect choice for every kind of game, though, as no joystick is. 

Initially I bought them to replace a pair of Happ Competitions on a 2-player 8-way setup, mostly to improve the Robotron experience.  That panel is 5/8" MDF and the joysticks are bottom-mounted (no routered pocket).  I ordered the round restrictor to keep the throw a bit more snappy on the thick panel. 

They worked OK in this setup, but eventually I decided to move the Competitions back to that panel and build a separate Robotron panel using the D8's with closer joystick spacing (10" if I recall correctly.)  I ditched the round restrictor and top-mounted the D8's to 3/4" wood using ad hoc mounting plates I fashioned out of electrical junction box covers.  The top-mount with no restrictor provided a very comparable feel to the bottom-mount with restrictor.   

Shortly after doing that, I sat down and monkeyed around a bit with the leaf switch adjustment on the D8's and this is when they REALLY started to shine.  After 3-4 iterations of minor tweaks to the switches, it was joyous.  I did a quickie adjustment when the sticks were new but never revisited it to tweak it at all.  I don't know why I was missing out big time.  Bottom line: if you buy D8's, SPEND A HALF HOUR TWEAKING THEM.  It's not difficult, and it makes them really sing. 

Now, with dialed-in switch adjustment and nice comfortable spacing, twin stick games (Robotron, Smash TV, Total Carnage, Black Widow, etc.) are a blast, and very faithful (all things considered) to the real thing. 

The D8's are also outstanding (IMO) for shoot-em-ups.  Which makes sense, because a lot of the traits that are desirable in a Robotron stick are desirable in a shooter stick (precise movements, twitchy response to dodge stuff, etc.)

They're also totally fine with side-scrolling beat-em-ups, although I don't feel that they provide any real advantage in games like that. 

I wish I could provide an educated comment on their suitability for one-on-one fighting games, but I really can't.  I just don't ever play those games and don't really care.  I will say though that I *suspect* the D8's - at least, the way I have mine set up - would not be a top choice for fighting games.  I think something with a bit of tactile feedback based on joystick position (such as my Happ Comps) would be better, but again, I don't really care either way. 

Another thing is, in my opinion the D8's aren't a very good choice of 8-way if you plan to "fake it" using an 8-way joystick to play 4-way games.  I can much more easily manage this with the Comps.  But a joystick's efficacy at faking something is probably not a good criterion for judging it.

Thank you!

Yeah, I understand that with this joystick setting it up correctly, taking the time to tuning the leaf switches, is almost mandatory: I already accounted for this, just hope I'm not forced to do this too often as ideally I'd like to play many games without bothering constantly with the fine tuning. I too can't care less for fighting games, so no problem here. Also, the characteristics you describe that shine on Dominux8 (typically for shoot-em-ups) are exactly the same I'm looking for in my joystick! About the 4-way: I agree with you that a dedicated and specifically design joystick is the best option here, and since I have now decided to buy from Randy, I would have also liked to add to the pack the the Pac-Pro leaf...but unfortunately it is out of stock  :banghead:

Just a question, for the sake of clarity: with a 18-19 mm (11/16" - 3/4") MDF panel what is the best setup in your opinion? I mean, long shaft and bottom mount or a top mount with the help of a custom plate (like Jimbo and yourself did, after) and short shaft? I ask also because I read on the forum that with long shaft the joystick feels better and smoother.

So I think the options are:

1) bottom mount + long shaft without restrictor (for some people too much throw, but I have a 3/4" panel so maybe its ok?)
2) bottom mount + long shaft + circle restrictor
3) top mount with plate + short shaft without restrictor

Which one you like more?

OTT

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2019, 04:23:50 pm »

Thanks for chipping in... I agree with pretty much everything you've said.  They really are good for shooters.  I too couldn't care less about fighting games and hence don't know how they'd fare (nor care).  But yes, definitely spend a good while tinkering until you get it just right.  That's when you know you've bought the right sticks :)    For the record, I have NO restrictor on there (smooth circular) and they are bottom mounted on a 2mm thick metal panel in the short shaft length on my bartop and my work's arcade machine.  Totally rock for Robotron and pretty much all shooters.

I tried them with the 4-way restrictor for pac-man etc, and hated it.  Ended up with a pac-pro which I couldn't be happier with.

Me too, I can't care less for fighting games - as I already wrote above. I feels that I'd like more to go without a restrictor, but it can be done on a thick MDF panel? (18-19mm)

I mean, can I go for the short shaft and no restrictor configuration using a custom mounting plate or does it have a different feeling / result than a top mount on a 2mm metal panel?

Furthermore, do you think the joystick could be mounted so that the long shaft without restrictor feels better? (same MDF panel 18-19 mm)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 04:26:10 pm by OTT »

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2019, 06:17:25 pm »
I mean, can I go for the short shaft and no restrictor configuration using a custom mounting plate or does it have a different feeling / result than a top mount on a 2mm metal panel?

You'd undermount it on a 2mm metal panel.  If you instead make a mounting plate and top mount it into a routed out recess in wood/mdf, it'll be practically the same to play (just more work to make ;) )

Furthermore, do you think the joystick could be mounted so that the long shaft without restrictor feels better? (same MDF panel 18-19 mm)

Never tried it, but the thought of bottom mounting a joystick in a thick panel sounds horrible!


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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2019, 06:56:36 pm »


You'd undermount it on a 2mm metal panel.  If you instead make a mounting plate and top mount it into a routed out recess in wood/mdf, it'll be practically the same to play (just more work to make ;) )

Ok. I'm not sure yet if I'm willing to adopt a metal panel...so bear with me as I got a couple more questions:

1) I read that you used a 2,5 mm aluminum plate. Do you confirm even now that it was the right thickness or is, for ex., 2mm (or something different) better?

2) One last question about your custom "restrictor", since I like your idea more than Randy's because it allow to keep the washer and still hidden it under panel (which I like much).
Here: I read that the hole was 26mm (30mm for the aluminum plate) and of course the shaft was setted in "short" configuration. After playing and testing with your Dominux8, do you confirm these measures or do you think that them could be better? (i.e. for achieving a better feeling or a "perfect" throw)

Furthermore, do you think the joystick could be mounted so that the long shaft without restrictor feels better? (same MDF panel 18-19 mm)
Never tried it, but the thought of bottom mounting a joystick in a thick panel sounds horrible!

Well, as I explained above I read some user feedback that states the joystick with the "long shaft" configuration feels somewhat better compared to the "short", so I'm wondering if there is a way to keep the long shaft and still achieve the "right" throw. Of course using the circle restrictor (Randy's or a custom made like yours) should be the way to go, I'm trying to figure out if the this setup is better or worse than the top mounted + short shaft without restrictor.

Also, If I remember correctly, a very clever guy (sorry, don't remember name/nick) few years ago made a nice cabinet for Total Carnage/Smash TV with Dominux8 and he bottom mounted the joysticks in a 3/4" MDF panel...maybe that was not as clean as your solution but still viable and his CP turned out gorgeous (at least from my memory!). The main con is the deep, visible hole for the shaft but it could also be a design touch in some cases.

Again, thanks for the help!
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 06:58:38 pm by OTT »

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2019, 09:33:30 am »
Thank you!

Yeah, I understand that with this joystick setting it up correctly, taking the time to tuning the leaf switches, is almost mandatory: I already accounted for this, just hope I'm not forced to do this too often as ideally I'd like to play many games without bothering constantly with the fine tuning. I too can't care less for fighting games, so no problem here. Also, the characteristics you describe that shine on Dominux8 (typically for shoot-em-ups) are exactly the same I'm looking for in my joystick! About the 4-way: I agree with you that a dedicated and specifically design joystick is the best option here, and since I have now decided to buy from Randy, I would have also liked to add to the pack the the Pac-Pro leaf...but unfortunately it is out of stock  :banghead:

Just a question, for the sake of clarity: with a 18-19 mm (11/16" - 3/4") MDF panel what is the best setup in your opinion? I mean, long shaft and bottom mount or a top mount with the help of a custom plate (like Jimbo and yourself did, after) and short shaft? I ask also because I read on the forum that with long shaft the joystick feels better and smoother.

So I think the options are:

1) bottom mount + long shaft without restrictor (for some people too much throw, but I have a 3/4" panel so maybe its ok?)
2) bottom mount + long shaft + circle restrictor
3) top mount with plate + short shaft without restrictor

Which one you like more?

I don't think you need to worry about constantly adjusting the D8.  You need to spend a bit of time up front to do it, but once you get it working the way you like, it's pretty much set-it-and-forget-it.  At least, that has been my experience.

Like I said, my initial experience was bottom-mounting on a 5/8" panel using the round restrictor.  For me, in the long configuration, the restrictor is mandatory because the throw gets to be awkwardly long.  I'm currently using them in the short configuration top-mounted, and this is definitely my preferred way of using these sticks.  I did not notice the "feel" of the joystick suffering by moving from long to short or from using the restrictor.   

Like I said, the restrictor does a pretty good job of mimicking the feel of the short configuration.  It's not exact, but close.  And it's a much simpler way of installing a joystick.  I just prefer to keep the number of "add ons" to a minimum, and the top mount allows me to use the joystick without a restrictor.  I can sweep out silky-smooth circles in Robotron.

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2019, 10:34:36 am »
Thank you!

Yeah, I understand that with this joystick setting it up correctly, taking the time to tuning the leaf switches, is almost mandatory: I already accounted for this, just hope I'm not forced to do this too often as ideally I'd like to play many games without bothering constantly with the fine tuning. I too can't care less for fighting games, so no problem here. Also, the characteristics you describe that shine on Dominux8 (typically for shoot-em-ups) are exactly the same I'm looking for in my joystick! About the 4-way: I agree with you that a dedicated and specifically design joystick is the best option here, and since I have now decided to buy from Randy, I would have also liked to add to the pack the the Pac-Pro leaf...but unfortunately it is out of stock  :banghead:

Just a question, for the sake of clarity: with a 18-19 mm (11/16" - 3/4") MDF panel what is the best setup in your opinion? I mean, long shaft and bottom mount or a top mount with the help of a custom plate (like Jimbo and yourself did, after) and short shaft? I ask also because I read on the forum that with long shaft the joystick feels better and smoother.

So I think the options are:

1) bottom mount + long shaft without restrictor (for some people too much throw, but I have a 3/4" panel so maybe its ok?)
2) bottom mount + long shaft + circle restrictor
3) top mount with plate + short shaft without restrictor

Which one you like more?

I don't think you need to worry about constantly adjusting the D8.  You need to spend a bit of time up front to do it, but once you get it working the way you like, it's pretty much set-it-and-forget-it.  At least, that has been my experience.

Perfect! I can't ask for more

Like I said, my initial experience was bottom-mounting on a 5/8" panel using the round restrictor.  For me, in the long configuration, the restrictor is mandatory because the throw gets to be awkwardly long.  I'm currently using them in the short configuration top-mounted, and this is definitely my preferred way of using these sticks.  I did not notice the "feel" of the joystick suffering by moving from long to short or from using the restrictor.

Another good news for me! The reason behind my questions is that I'm sure I read somewhere on this forum that a user reported a different, more pleasant feeling with the bottom mounted joystick (+ restrictor, of course). Maybe it was a subjective impression or perhaps the panel thickness has a major influence in the long shaft config, and his feedback was determined by how the joystick performed in relation to the thickness of his panel!? What do you think? Your panel is 5/8", mine is 11/16-3/4"...this tiny difference could be enough to lead to a different "feeling" with bottom mounting? What is the "right" length of the shaft, from the panel to the base of the balltop in your opinion? I apologize for the many questions in sequence  ;D

Like I said, the restrictor does a pretty good job of mimicking the feel of the short configuration.  It's not exact, but close.  And it's a much simpler way of installing a joystick.  I just prefer to keep the number of "add ons" to a minimum, and the top mount allows me to use the joystick without a restrictor.  I can sweep out silky-smooth circles in Robotron.

Yeah, me too I'm leaning towards the top mount with short config without restrictor. The main reason is that I don't want the washer above the panel and if I go with the bottom mount on a thick panel like 3/4" there will be a visible big and deep hole where the shaft comes out, which not appeal me much... If I want a nice, clean installation without washer on top of the panel I don't see other options.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 10:36:54 am by OTT »

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2019, 10:54:01 am »
Out of curiosity... why are you not keen on a metal panel?  It may cost a little more, but it'll solve all your problems - you can simply bottom mount the joystick in the short configuration with no restrictor, and no messing about with custom mounting plates.  The dust washer will be hidden, it'll feel great, and the panel will last forever.  If you can get the metal pre-cut to size all you have to do is cut the holes for the controls.  I'm guessing since you're considering D8's a few extra $ on a steel panel won't be an issue.

Just sayin'  :D

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2019, 11:09:13 am »
I like the way the Robotron control panel is designed for the joystick.  I just finished building a from scratch repro of own and it's awesome.  I had originally bought a metal Williams control panel blank but decided not to use it because I didn't see any easy way of mounting the joysticks to a thin metal panel without have carriage bolt heads on top which I did not want.  So I made it like the original panel and it has metal places that captively hide the dust cover and is very solid with the T-nuts hidden underneath the metal plate on top.  You can see photos in my recent Robotron build thread.  By the way I bought like 3-4 different sets of joysticks so I have the Dominux8's and the ArcadeShop Wico repros but after acquiring rebuilt original Wico's all the others are staying in a box.

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2019, 11:26:16 am »
I like the way the Robotron control panel is designed for the joystick.  I just finished building a from scratch repro of own and it's awesome.  I had originally bought a metal Williams control panel blank but decided not to use it because I didn't see any easy way of mounting the joysticks to a thin metal panel without have carriage bolt heads on top which I did not want.  So I made it like the original panel and it has metal places that captively hide the dust cover and is very solid with the T-nuts hidden underneath the metal plate on top.  You can see photos in my recent Robotron build thread.  By the way I bought like 3-4 different sets of joysticks so I have the Dominux8's and the ArcadeShop Wico repros but after acquiring rebuilt original Wico's all the others are staying in a box.

Yeah, the visible bolts is the main reason for which I don't like metal panels too. Also, I don't like washer on top of the panel. So you are suggesting to add a metal layer on top of a wood panel to hide the bolts and give the "right" arcade feeling? If so, I thought about this option, too. A possible alternative is to cover the wood panel with a polylaminated layer. On wood I can countersink everything, hiding all the bolts. What do you think?

About the Wiko repro sold @ ArcadeShop: how does it compare to Dominux8? I don't know if you read my op post and all the ensuing discussion, but to sum it up I'm looking for an all round joystick that allows me to play well a wide range of different games. Moreover, I like very much leaf switches and grommet so at the moment I'm seriously considering to buy the Dominux8. Some people say that the Dominux8 has a diffent feeling compared to old Wico but that the overall design is better. Now, I'm not asking which of the two give the more "authentic" feeling for old arcade like Smash TV or Total Carnage because the answer is obvious...what interest me is if the Dominux8 could be a better choice for a wider range of games compared to Wico repro. Of course this may be subjective, but your opinion would be very appreciated! Thanks

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2019, 11:49:06 am »
Out of curiosity... why are you not keen on a metal panel?  It may cost a little more, but it'll solve all your problems - you can simply bottom mount the joystick in the short configuration with no restrictor, and no messing about with custom mounting plates.  The dust washer will be hidden, it'll feel great, and the panel will last forever.  If you can get the metal pre-cut to size all you have to do is cut the holes for the controls.  I'm guessing since you're considering D8's a few extra $ on a steel panel won't be an issue.

Just sayin'  :D

Sorry for the late reply, I just noticed your post.

You are right, is not related to cost at all: well, I don't like visible bolts on top of the panel and I assume it is impossible to mount the controls on a thin metal panel hiding the bolts, while I can countersink everything on wood  :)

P.S.:  when you get the time/feels like it, please reply to my questions in my previous reply to you (yes, I know I'm being a bother but I want to get to the bottom of all this mounting issue for Dominux8)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 11:52:33 am by OTT »

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2019, 11:49:42 am »
Yes its easiest to just show the picture.  Now I did have a CNC to cut out the wood so it would be more work to do this manually with a router.  But I did make the metal plates by hand.  I left the plate on the left and show underneath on the right.



I really can't give a good assessment of the Dominux8.  I never hooked them up so I only got to feel what its like by holding it in my hand.  And I ordered the other joysticks before I knew I could get my hands on the restored Wicos so once I got them I knew it was what I wanted in the panel.

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2019, 11:52:33 am »
So in the end the dust cover is captive inside control panel and cannot be removed without destroying the laminate artwork.


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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2019, 11:54:07 am »
What do you think? Your panel is 5/8", mine is 11/16-3/4"...this tiny difference could be enough to lead to a different "feeling" with bottom mounting? What is the "right" length of the shaft, from the panel to the base of the balltop in your opinion? I apologize for the many questions in sequence  ;D

I've never used a 3/4" panel so I don't know for sure, but I can't see any reason why that would be significantly different from a 5/8" panel, all else being equal. The joystick itself is the same in either setup, the only thing that will change is the height of the ball above the panel. 

As for distance from panel to ball top, I'm not sure if there is a single exact answer on what is best, but it feels right on 5/8" and I've not doubt it would also feel right on 3/4".



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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2019, 11:57:13 am »
Yes its easiest to just show the picture.  Now I did have a CNC to cut out the wood so it would be more work to do this manually with a router.  But I did make the metal plates by hand.  I left the plate on the left and show underneath on the right.



I really can't give a good assessment of the Dominux8.  I never hooked them up so I only got to feel what its like by holding it in my hand.  And I ordered the other joysticks before I knew I could get my hands on the restored Wicos so once I got them I knew it was what I wanted in the panel.

Thanks! It is pretty much what Jimbo did for his Dominux8 in Jimbovision. It is also my preferred solution. Yes, I know it is more work and all but if I want nice, clean installation without bolt and washer on top and the right throw for the Dominux8 seems like I don't have any other option (without going for a metal panel).

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2019, 11:58:16 am »
So in the end the dust cover is captive inside control panel and cannot be removed without destroying the laminate artwork.



Wonderful! Congrats  :applaud:

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2019, 11:59:21 am »
What do you think? Your panel is 5/8", mine is 11/16-3/4"...this tiny difference could be enough to lead to a different "feeling" with bottom mounting? What is the "right" length of the shaft, from the panel to the base of the balltop in your opinion? I apologize for the many questions in sequence  ;D

I've never used a 3/4" panel so I don't know for sure, but I can't see any reason why that would be significantly different from a 5/8" panel, all else being equal. The joystick itself is the same in either setup, the only thing that will change is the height of the ball above the panel. 

As for distance from panel to ball top, I'm not sure if there is a single exact answer on what is best, but it feels right on 5/8" and I've not doubt it would also feel right on 3/4".

Ok, thanks!

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2019, 12:27:37 pm »
Quote
1) I read that you used a 2,5 mm aluminum plate. Do you confirm even now that it was the right thickness or is, for ex., 2mm (or something different) better?

Yeah I had no probs with it being 2.5mm.

Quote
2) One last question about your custom "restrictor", since I like your idea more than Randy's because it allow to keep the washer and still hidden it under panel (which I like much).
Here: I read that the hole was 26mm (30mm for the aluminum plate) and of course the shaft was setted in "short" configuration. After playing and testing with your Dominux8, do you confirm these measures or do you think that them could be better? (i.e. for achieving a better feeling or a "perfect" throw)

I think they're just about right... the aluminium hole edges are very close the shaft when pushed to its max throw... but I centered it perfectly (it was cnc cut) that it doesn't quite touch all the way around.  In hindsight for that little extra peace of mind I'd probably go an extra 1mm or 2mm diameter on the hole - especially if you're not machining the part.

EDIT:  Just going back to look at the pics, and checking the joysticks.... it was actually the plexi insert that almost touches the shaft at full throw... so I'd give that an extra mm or so diameter to avoid it touching.

Regarding the metal panel.. Fair enough if you don't like bolts showing.  For me I like that look, it's what I remember from the arcades and makes panels look more authentic imo. Bolts are badass. But each to their own :)   :cheers:
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 12:34:10 pm by Jimbo »

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2019, 12:34:32 pm »

Regarding the metal panel.. Fair enough if you don't like bolts showing.  For me I like that look, it's what I remember from the arcades and makes panels look more authentic imo.  But each to their own :)   :cheers:

Yeah, Id never build a panel where the bolts DONT show.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2019, 12:40:04 pm »
Quote
1) I read that you used a 2,5 mm aluminum plate. Do you confirm even now that it was the right thickness or is, for ex., 2mm (or something different) better?

Yeah I had no probs with it being 2.5mm.

Quote
2) One last question about your custom "restrictor", since I like your idea more than Randy's because it allow to keep the washer and still hidden it under panel (which I like much).
Here: I read that the hole was 26mm (30mm for the aluminum plate) and of course the shaft was setted in "short" configuration. After playing and testing with your Dominux8, do you confirm these measures or do you think that them could be better? (i.e. for achieving a better feeling or a "perfect" throw)

I think they're just about right... the aluminium hole edges are very close the shaft when pushed to its max throw... but I centered it perfectly (it was cnc cut) that it doesn't quite touch all the way around.  In hindsight for that little extra peace of mind I'd probably go an extra 1mm or 2mm diameter on the hole - especially if you're not machining the part.

Regarding the metal panel.. Fair enough if you don't like bolts showing.  For me I like that look, it's what I remember from the arcades and makes panels look more authentic imo.  But each to their own :)   :cheers:

Thanks, so to sum it up:

A) custom "restrictor" thickness 1,5 mm (ok is not exactly a restrictor because is not needed with short config, but more like a spacer for keeping the washer under panel, right?)
B) mounting plate thickness 2,5 mm (I asked because I think this is the only parameter that could be modified, for ex. subtracting 0,5 or 1mm, if this change anything about the joystick throw/feeling)
C) hole size on the "restrictor" 26mm (this should allow the maximum travel, i.e. no restriction at all, right?)
D) hole size on the mounting plate 30mm (+1 or 2mm for extra safety)

I understood correctly?

EDIT: I read just now your...EDIT: so not the metal plate but the "restrictor" need 1 or 2 more mm, right? (while 30mm for the plate is just fine)  ;D

About the bolts: sure, they feels more like "authentic" old arcade panels. But for this project I'm not trying to do a repro of anything specific and I like a very clean surface for the panel. Maybe for my other project I could consider the metal panel option with the visible bolts!
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 12:44:57 pm by OTT »

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2019, 12:54:11 pm »
Quote
A) custom "restrictor" thickness 1,5 mm (ok is not exactly a restrictor because is not needed with short config, but more like a spacer for keeping the washer under panel, right?)
B) mounting plate thickness 2,5 mm (I asked because I think this is the only parameter that could be modified, for ex. subtracting 0,5 or 1mm, if this change anything about the joystick throw/feeling)
C) hole size on the "restrictor" 26mm (this should allow the maximum travel, i.e. no restriction at all, right?)
D) hole size on the mounting plate 30mm (+1 or 2mm for extra safety)

A) the "custom restrictor" I used isn't really a restrictor, and was really only for edge-lighting with LEDs to light the joystick around the shaft hole.  You don't need it at all if you're not going down the same LED route that I did.  It doesn't restrict the shaft in any way. It's got nothing to do with the dust washer, that'll stay under the panel with or without it.
B) 1mm or 2mm diff, I can't see the throw/feeling change noticeably.
C) If you need this part (see A) then give it an extra 1mm I'd say.
D) yeah 1mm or so extra won't hurt.

and as a bonus:

E)  I'd mockup something in cardboard or plastic if you can to test the throw and depths/hole diameters before you go down cutting metal/plexi.

Cheers :)

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2019, 12:59:09 pm »
Quote
A) custom "restrictor" thickness 1,5 mm (ok is not exactly a restrictor because is not needed with short config, but more like a spacer for keeping the washer under panel, right?)
B) mounting plate thickness 2,5 mm (I asked because I think this is the only parameter that could be modified, for ex. subtracting 0,5 or 1mm, if this change anything about the joystick throw/feeling)
C) hole size on the "restrictor" 26mm (this should allow the maximum travel, i.e. no restriction at all, right?)
D) hole size on the mounting plate 30mm (+1 or 2mm for extra safety)

A) the "custom restrictor" I used isn't really a restrictor, and was really only for edge-lighting with LEDs to light the joystick around the shaft hole.  You don't need it at all if you're not going down the same LED route that I did.  It doesn't restrict the shaft in any way. It's got nothing to do with the dust washer, that'll stay under the panel with or without it.
B) 1mm or 2mm diff, I can't see the throw/feeling change noticeably.
C) If you need this part (see A) then give it an extra 1mm I'd say.
D) yeah 1mm or so extra won't hurt.

and as a bonus:

E)  I'd mockup something in cardboard or plastic if you can to test the throw and depths/hole diameters before you go down cutting metal/plexi.

Cheers :)

Many thanks!!!  :notworthy:

Gilrock

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2019, 01:02:16 pm »
Pretty sure games like Joust, Defender, and Robotron never had any joystick bolts showing.  I'm not opposed to bolts showing but I was building a game that didn't have them.  Some games did it and some didn't so if anyone is going to claim they would never hide the bolts it doesn't mean much without providing a reason.

yotsuya

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Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2019, 01:09:02 pm »
Pretty sure games like Joust, Defender, and Robotron never had any joystick bolts showing.  I'm not opposed to bolts showing but I was building a game that didn't have them.  Some games did it and some didn't so if anyone is going to claim they would never hide the bolts it doesn't mean much without providing a reason.

Those were all games with primarily wooden control panels. I would never hide the bolts on a scratch build because a) Id use a metal panel and b) its too much work otherwise for little return. If I were restoring a panel where they were hidden, then Id keep it that way.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

Gilrock

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Re: Omni2 vs Mag Stick (Plus) vs ...Dominux8!?
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2019, 01:16:47 pm »
Pretty sure games like Joust, Defender, and Robotron never had any joystick bolts showing.  I'm not opposed to bolts showing but I was building a game that didn't have them.  Some games did it and some didn't so if anyone is going to claim they would never hide the bolts it doesn't mean much without providing a reason.

Those were all games with primarily wooden control panels. I would never hide the bolts on a scratch build because a) Id use a metal panel and b) its too much work otherwise for little return. If I were restoring a panel where they were hidden, then Id keep it that way.

Yeah well I know exactly what would have happened if I had dared build a Robotron with bolts showing people would be tearing me a new ass like they already did about me not having a lower coin door yet.