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Author Topic: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns  (Read 1822 times)

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thet0ast3r

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2019, 05:16:23 pm »
Thats a quite simple math & calibration problem. You just have to tell the algorithm where the corners of the screen are. The resolution on the farther side of the screen is going to be less, though (but that should have almost no effect on accuracy). 
thet0ast3r

Titchgamer

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2019, 05:21:33 pm »
Thats a quite simple math & calibration problem. You just have to tell the algorithm where the corners of the screen are. The resolution on the farther side of the screen is going to be less, though (but that should have almost no effect on accuracy).

But that in lies the problem.

It will change with every screen/height/angle.

In my mind you are going to have a parallax/depth perception problem at such a steep angle.

Would love to see it working under a marquee and to be proved wrong though :)

Howard_Casto

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2019, 08:38:04 pm »
Yes it will change with every display... that's why you calibrate it... once and only once.  The only time you'd need to calibrate it again would be if, for some reason, you moved the camera. 

The parallax/ depth perception is what I'm referring to that could be compensated with software.  It's not that hard really.  Since we are dealing with flat screens and not curved crts, regardless of the angle, we are basically dealing with a trapezoid.  If you know the location of the four corners of the screen, the border can be calculated and then it's a matter of calculating the percentage left and the percentage down in relation to the borders.  It's much more difficult to explain than to do actually.  The only issue I can see is diminished resolution on the short end of the trapezoid.... that's why I was saying 640x480 may not be sufficient. 

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2019, 03:06:27 am »
Yes it will change with every display... that's why you calibrate it... once and only once.  The only time you'd need to calibrate it again would be if, for some reason, you moved the camera. 

The parallax/ depth perception is what I'm referring to that could be compensated with software.  It's not that hard really.  Since we are dealing with flat screens and not curved crts, regardless of the angle, we are basically dealing with a trapezoid.  If you know the location of the four corners of the screen, the border can be calculated and then it's a matter of calculating the percentage left and the percentage down in relation to the borders.  It's much more difficult to explain than to do actually.  The only issue I can see is diminished resolution on the short end of the trapezoid.... that's why I was saying 640x480 may not be sufficient.

Yeah I get that.

But how accurate is it going to be when you require accuracy to within a few mm?

You are effectively taking a I dunno say 21 high square screen and turning it into a 15 trapezoid.

I have no doubt you can write algorithms to compensate for this kind of think my doubt is with how accurate they will be when talking about the amount of variables.

And thats not taking into account any other things like solar radiation etc.

Dont get me wrong I dig the idea (and the suggested price point) but I would like to see more before getting on board with it.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2019, 01:41:00 pm »
I can't speak for ir lasers, but the visible ones project a very very tight point. It seems to look pretty uniform regardless of the viewing angle as well.

You've also got to keep in mind that most light gun games (not all mind you) have a low gun resolution.  All of the emulated stuff is basically 240p except for analogue joystick gun games and most of those boast a whopping 255x255 resolution.  Even those that don't on the hardware side, the hit targets are frikkin huge on modern gun games. 

So take those two things into account and it's not that tough.  We know that straight on, the webcam could be as low as 320x240 and still give good accuracy.  So even if the distortion is so bad that the top side of the trapezoid is half the width of the bottom side a 640x480 camera would get you back up to the 320x240 resolution.  I think maybe something a bit higher than that would be better just to be on the safe side, but that still shouldn't be unreasonable to process in a timely manner with a fairly accurate dot. 

I just think that finding the best camera and laser is the key..... it's not going to work well unless the hardware is well-suited. 

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2019, 05:47:33 pm »
I find the Logitech  c922. Capable of 720p at 60fps. The problem.. it cost 90 euros which is more money than the Pdp Mars with the camera and gun together and the two  games included " if they ever release it ofc"  and the Sinden gun should be no more than 100 euros in my guess! More and it may not success with the kickstarter.  I don't really know the amount of  details you guys can see in order to make the software.  But some how , the Chinese guy get in the YouTube video impresive results.  Accuracy and speed like nothing before.  And that was already 1 year ago. I really think the right ir laser pointer and low power is the key

Howard_Casto

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2019, 07:53:57 pm »
Really for me a lot of it has to do with how long are we going to have to wait?  If it's more than a year I can probably cobble together something good in that amount of time. 

I was thinking maybe a backup camera....  they show a very large area with a very short throw and are about the size of a postage stamp.  The distortion of a fish-eye lense might be slightly more challenging to compensate for though. 

Zebra

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2019, 04:04:02 pm »

What is the fundamental difference between this and the existing home IR / CCD guns? I.e. What makes it more accurate and able to work at any distance?

I am always happy to see new light gun tech but I have been disappointed too many times to believe it until I see it. If it works as well as current arcade IR guns then I'd almost certainly buy one though.

On that note, I would prefer it if someone simply copied the arcade IR design - i.e. Ten sensors around the bezel and triangulation of the position instead of biangulation like the current home IR guns. We know that the Time Crisis 4 arcade gun design works and is reasonably accurate. There is no need to reinvent this wheel.

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2019, 02:19:38 pm »
Hey guys they just  posted the release  day. Available 5 july

Howard_Casto

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2019, 03:54:27 pm »
Nice.  I think I might wait and see how good it is then. 

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2019, 05:21:09 pm »
 i hope the Mars become available  in Europe too. Also I wonder  if the sinden gun kickstarter campaign on the second weekend of April.  How long it will take him to get everything done and start shipping his light gun. I mean  i don't  think his campaign will get more than few hundreds  of orders at top .. is not me about negative is just realistic. For example the company behind The Mars light gun is expending a lot  more money  on development of the gun and the games than Sinden  and is done by a company with some tracking on the gamers hardware business.  even do there is almost no feedback  from anywhere not from light gun fans or even worse from developers to create new games. So my point is there is no much people out there who want a light gun for his arcade cabinet  and dealing  with endless troubles to make it work  because nothing  is really plug and play.

Zebra

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2019, 06:19:45 pm »
I don't think the desire for plug in and play is unique to light guns. I think most people feel that way about almost everything. If the install process is not intuitive and immediately obvious then things don't get used.

With that said, almost all of the (very limited number) of currently available light gun substitutes are fairly easy to use. The issue is that they are not very good.

I'd be seriously interested in one that was genuinely accurate enough to use without on-screen crosshairs. I'd even put myself through a difficult install. So far, the Guncon 3 is the only home HD gun accurate enough for that though, but that gun only works with 3 games...


clhug

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2019, 01:22:07 pm »
Does anybody have any confirmation that this will work with MAME?  From their material it appears that right now it only works with Xbox One.

I don't really care for the gun body design.  Strip out the guts and put them in your own case I guess.  I'd also like to see a recoil option.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2019, 01:09:09 am »
https://www.walmart.com/ip/PDP-Xbox-One-PS4-MARS-LIGHTCON-Universal-Lightgun-090-079-NA/800106582

According to this Walmart listing it works for everything.  Not sure how accurate that is, but you can at least expect it to work for all the consoles as most gun games end up on the ps4 or switch and NOT the xbox. 

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2019, 03:45:32 am »
Looks like no way to get them  from Europe.   :(

Disco74

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2019, 06:22:27 am »
Think Im gonna stick with the Sinden!!!

clhug

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2019, 11:01:20 am »
https://www.walmart.com/ip/PDP-Xbox-One-PS4-MARS-LIGHTCON-Universal-Lightgun-090-079-NA/800106582

According to this Walmart listing it works for everything.  Not sure how accurate that is, but you can at least expect it to work for all the consoles as most gun games end up on the ps4 or switch and NOT the xbox.

Interesting.  The other thing that's interesting is that apparently Walmart is selling the standalone gun, but not the starter kit that includes the camera (or at least not that I can find by searching the site).  The gun by itself is pretty useless.

pbj

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2019, 11:37:13 am »
$30?  Not bad.  No joystick on it is going to really limit it, though.

This forum needs more threads about Arcade 1Up cabinets.

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2019, 02:37:18 pm »
PDP Mars Lightcon looks cool, but the company's website only mentions XboxOne compatibility. Maybe PC and other platforms will be supported in the future?