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Author Topic: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns  (Read 3039 times)

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ryoken

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Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« on: March 11, 2019, 02:33:32 pm »
The Pdp Mars light gun with low power infrared laser is in my opinion the most accurate. faster response and can be used from any distance on any Lcd Tv... is also wireless and cheap only need 1 camera to handle 4 guns. They will come at 30$ per only the gun or 80  with the camera and gun plus 2 games. Sounds like a really good deal and expected to be released any time soon this year.



at this moment is coming one more alternative. the SINDEN GUN  have potential but putting the camera on the gun will raise  the price for a system with multiple  guns ( i guess  we can use multiple  sinden guns on one pc but not sure yet)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 04:39:51 pm by ryoken »

lightgungamer

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2019, 09:18:45 am »
I'm really excited about both these projects. The Sinden one looks great because it requires nothing else other than the guns and also the creator is putting loads of work into getting emulators to support the guns. He is always posting about improving the Pi light gun support. I think the Mars guns will end up being cheaper and probably more polished due to being backed by a big company. Also the PDP Mars light guns are wireless (maybe bluetooth?) which is always better than having wires!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 09:24:06 am by lightgungamer »
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ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2019, 11:07:35 am »
Can't  wait to try them Both. Wonder when they will be available.

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2019, 11:26:48 am »
Be interested to see more of these.

But the wireless thing would be a concern for me.

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2019, 04:19:57 pm »
I don't see how the wireless could be a concern.

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2019, 04:48:05 pm »
I don't see how the wireless could be a concern.

Lag.

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2019, 05:26:28 pm »
The technology behind the Mars and the Sinden is very similar. But the Mars only  need a Ir laser pointer for the tracking of the gun, and the camera is connected by cable doing the rest so no lag for be wireless on the tracking.  The only real advantage in my opinion of the Sinden gun, is the person behind that project because he wants to make his gun compatible with  everything.  Which i don't think is the case with the Mars.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 05:28:06 pm by ryoken »

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2019, 05:44:16 pm »
Hmm fair enough then.

I would love to give one a go, But as howard mentioned the screen itself may cause issues to.

But we will wait and see!

Having met Andy Sinden and had a go with his gun I know what to expect.
Also as well as wanting to get it to work on lots of systems he is passionate about light gun games so thats always a plus for me.

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2019, 06:00:54 pm »
One thing is sure, i will get both. Only hope don't take too long to start shipping  them. Otherwise i might invest on a VR setup which is hands down the most accurate and faster response light gun experience at the moment if you try the games like Robot recall or space pirate.  You will know what I'm talking about.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 06:04:43 pm by ryoken »

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2019, 06:04:47 pm »
One thing is sure, i will get both. Only hope don't take too long to start shipping  them. Otherwise i might invest on a VR setup which is hands down the most accurate and faster response light gun experience at the moment. Sadly all these light gun will become obsolete with the arrive of AR and VR in the next 5 or 10 years...

I dunno, I have Farpoint on the PSVR and its a bloody amazing game but its not 100% accurate and can sort of loose calibration.

You dont tend to notice as your vision is effectively out of calibration the same but its there for sure.

As for obsolete, They already are effectively as few people can play them anymore without PS move etc which is naff tbh.

But I will still be playing the originals on My CRT till either I or the TV/consoles die :p

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2019, 06:10:38 pm »
Have any idea of when can we buy and get the sinden gun. I don't  know like 1, 2, 3 months or end of this year. The waiting drive me crazy i will really love to try them now!

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2019, 06:14:03 pm »
Have any idea of when can we buy and get the sinden gun. I don't  know like 1, 2, 3 months or end of this year. The waiting drive me crazy i will really love to try them now!

The kick starter for it is going live next month.

Not sure what his time scale plans are after that.

Will basically be manufacturing time as I think he already has the PCB and hardware.

With the exception of Pi compatibility etc I think the software is pretty much sorted but  thats all software updates anyways so easy to do after the fact.

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2019, 06:22:01 pm »

Where is Andy from? He looks like dutch

Have

The kick starter for it is going live next month.

Not sure what his time scale plans are after that.

Will basically be manufacturing time as I think he already has the PCB and hardware.

With the exception of Pi compatibility etc I think the software is pretty much sorted but  thats all software updates anyways so easy to do after the fact.

Titchgamer

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2019, 06:22:29 pm »

Where is Andy from? He looks like dutch

Have

The kick starter for it is going live next month.

Not sure what his time scale plans are after that.

Will basically be manufacturing time as I think he already has the PCB and hardware.

With the exception of Pi compatibility etc I think the software is pretty much sorted but  thats all software updates anyways so easy to do after the fact.

Nah hes English mate lol

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2019, 06:29:14 pm »
I live in the Netherlands.

dgrace

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2019, 06:37:51 pm »
Do we know if the MAR IR Station will have to sit on top of the TV (i.e. like wiimote sensor bar, Aimtrak, etc.)? I only ask because it might be hard to fit into an arcade cabinet given how big it is. Looks pretty sweet though. Can't wait to learn more about it, especially if it could be compatible with emulators (i.e. Teknoparrot, MAME, Supermodel, etc).
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 11:08:39 am by dgrace »

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2019, 07:01:40 pm »
Do we know if the MAR IR Station will have to sit on top of the TV (i.e. like wiimote sensor bar, Aimtrak, etc.)? I only ask because it might be hard to fit into an arcade cabinet given how big it is. Looks pretty sweet thought. Can't wait to learn more about it, especially if it could be compatible with emulators (i.e. Teknoparrot, MAME, Supermodel, etc).

It is a camera that needs to point at the screen.  So it will need to be out in front of the screen which brings a different set of issues.

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2019, 12:44:37 am »
In the meantime waiting for the release of their light guns will be nice if we can get access to the software used by Chinese guy on YouTube doing basically the same but with a Ps3 camera aimed to the screen and in the diy light gun a wireless mouse for the inputs bottoms with a infrared laser pointer. I find on Ebay these Ir pointer

https://www.ebay.com/itm/980nm-5mW-IR-Infra-Red-Laser-Pointer-Pen/141364503544?epid=1831350055&hash=item20e9fb23f8:g:nzIAAOxy6MBSRbFW

The ps3  camera are very cheap also a wireless mouse. And any gun shell.
This setup can be very cheap. But it is worthless without the software to get the position of the laser with the camera. I try to reach the guy on the video but don't reply the message.


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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2019, 03:17:25 am »
I can probably do the software part but the hardware is what I'm worried about.  Not sure what wavelength of ir laser is safe... it'll definitely reflect back in your eye at some angles.  A ps3 camera is a poor choice because it uses homebrew drivers, but I'm not sure what camera would be best. 

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2019, 04:55:22 am »
I can probably do the software part but the hardware is what I'm worried about.  Not sure what wavelength of ir laser is safe... it'll definitely reflect back in your eye at some angles.  A ps3 camera is a poor choice because it uses homebrew drivers, but I'm not sure what camera would be best.

I try the ps3 camera with freetrack and frames rates are very high can go to 640x480@60/75fps and 320x240@125. The laser need to be modified for lower power maybe a resistor and dimming the beam until the minimum to still be detected by the camera. Otherwise an ir flashlight  with adjustable focus can do the trick

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2019, 03:44:20 pm »
I don't know if the ir lasers are safe even dimmed or I would have already done it.  In regards to the camera, like I said, the ps3 camera uses custom drivers.... we don't want that because if a windows update breaks the drivers we are at the mercy of whoever wrote those drivers to get it working again.  imho it needs to be a HID camera so no drivers are necessary and, theoretically at least, it'll work for years to come without hassle.

640x480 sounds adequate, but I don't know if it is.  With the camera mounted perfectly where the monitor is straight on and fills the screen we have a resolution of 640x480... which will work for most games, but realistically, to mount the camera on a standard mame cab while getting the whole screen in there, the alignment isn't going to be ideal.... It'll view the monitor at an angle, possibly an extreme angle, which means that one side of the monitor is only going to take up a percentage of the screen, and whatever percentage that is, it'll be the maximum resolution of that area.  So realistically you'll probably get a useable resolution of 320x240, which, again, is probably ok for old games, but it might not be enough for newer pc games.  Mind you there aren't a lot of pc based games, but occasionally we'll get a gem released like typing (house) of the dead overkill.  That games logic is 640x480 (the resolution of the wii, where it was originally released) so we've potentially halved the gun's resolution. 

I do think it's doable, but it'll be more complex than you think.  If you guys want to get together a parts list I would be willing to try, but I don't want to spend a lot of money.  Assuming these guns are released, they don't seem super expensive to me. 

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2019, 04:22:10 pm »
I dont think IR lasers are dangerous per se.
I have a large IR laser torch on my night vision scope.

But what they do is white out camera optics unless they are dimmed or filtered.
Much the same effect as if you shone a torch in your eye.

Thats the thing I suspect will give issues with IR lasers used for tracking as well as false input from sunlight etc.

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2019, 04:42:47 pm »
I dunno… infra red radiation is pretty bad for the retinas... I just don't know how bad.  From my experiments with visible lasers, you'll get a nice tight dot 99.9% of the time, but if the pointer is at an extreme angle, or maybe you hit your bezel or something you might get a flash in the eye.  With visible lasers this isn't a big deal as you'll just blink, but with an ir laser you'll just keep your eye open because you can't see it. 

Anyway, ideally we need a hid camera with good resolution and frame rate that maybe plays nice with Arduino or the pi.  I could use a software driver initially, but ideally it'd be nice to get someone to help me and take my parsing code and get it to work on an Arduino so it'd be a hardware device... that'd just increase compatibility and reduce the overhead on the pc.  I've been thinking about it, and assuming the camera is mounted so that the monitor image is only skewed on one side I think I can translate dot position to proper coordinates in an efficient manner.  2p support would be more complex, but one thing at a time. 

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2019, 05:18:23 pm »
Well basicly if you use a Class 1 IR laser you are fine in terms of danger to your eyes.

Class 2 is unlikely to damage your eyes but could do if you do something stupid with it.

Class 3 ono isa bad idea.

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2019, 06:35:35 pm »
Well basicly if you use a Class 1 IR laser you are fine in terms of danger to your eyes.

Class 2 is unlikely to damage your eyes but could do if you do something stupid with it.

Class 3 ono isa bad idea.

The class 1, 2 and 3 apply only to visible lasers not IR.  Lack of any blink reflex for IR throws things off.  I haven't been able to find any IR specific guidelines like the 1, 2, 3 classes.  And now there is a newer classification system even for visible.  I've been using both IR and visible lasers for my virtual range project and with the powers I'm using (fit class 1 and 2 above) I'm not worried.  Just follow Tichgamers' advice above - don't do stupid things.  I'm not worried about reflections off my projector screen and I have no mirrors in the area.  No kids either to worry about.

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2019, 06:47:08 pm »
Well basicly if you use a Class 1 IR laser you are fine in terms of danger to your eyes.

Class 2 is unlikely to damage your eyes but could do if you do something stupid with it.

Class 3 ono isa bad idea.

The class 1, 2 and 3 apply only to visible lasers not IR.  Lack of any blink reflex for IR throws things off.  I haven't been able to find any IR specific guidelines like the 1, 2, 3 classes.  And now there is a newer classification system even for visible.  I've been using both IR and visible lasers for my virtual range project and with the powers I'm using (fit class 1 and 2 above) I'm not worried.  Just follow Tichgamers' advice above - don't do stupid things.  I'm not worried about reflections off my projector screen and I have no mirrors in the area.  No kids either to worry about.

From what I understand of it the fact you cant see it is not as important as the power output of it.

Ie a high powered laser will burn you eye out.
But the class of laser is relational to the power.

So theoretically (not that I would recommend this of course!) you could stare at the business end of a class 1 laser and not do any permanent damage to your eye.

Class 2 I believe it will damage your eye if its over a prolonged period (i think)

And class 3 ono you are going to do damage.

I could be totally wrong of course, But thats my understanding.

Still dont do stupid ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and it shouldnt be a problem lol

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2019, 07:56:52 pm »

From what I understand of it the fact you cant see it is not as important as the power output of it.
........

Totally agree that power is going to be the major factor.  But every time I look for info on IR laser classes I find visible light tables that are very careful to have a disclaimer that they only apply to visible lasers.  I have the think that IR has some extra juicy goodness going on.  But it does still boil down to this:

Still dont do stupid ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and it shouldnt be a problem lol

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2019, 06:13:51 pm »
i found a video  playing a game with a ps3 camera and a laser pointer, is very impressive the pression he get.


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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2019, 06:21:04 pm »
i found a video  playing a game with a ps3 camera and a laser pointer, is very impressive the pression he get.



Its only restricted to a very small area though.

I would like to see it over a much bigger are.

I dont like the idea of a solution where I need a camera behind me or the screen either if I am honest as it makes it to hard to cabinet fit it.

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2019, 09:04:15 pm »
Yeah we've basically got to get a webcam to get an entire monitor in the shot when it's only a foot or so from the screen.  You can do it, but like I was talking about earlier, it's going to be at an extreme angle so the monitor edges are going to be very skewed and software is going to have to compensate.  Another option is to mount the camera on the ceiling, but then you can't move the cabinet and it might not work with really tall people ect. 

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2019, 04:43:06 am »
Yeah we've basically got to get a webcam to get an entire monitor in the shot when it's only a foot or so from the screen.  You can do it, but like I was talking about earlier, it's going to be at an extreme angle so the monitor edges are going to be very skewed and software is going to have to compensate.  Another option is to mount the camera on the ceiling, but then you can't move the cabinet and it might not work with really tall people ect.


And not to mention you need to mount a camera outside of the cabinet with a cable going to it somehow :p

Just seems a backwards way of doing it to me.

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2019, 01:12:10 pm »
It's not ideal, but neither is having a giant 1 inch white border around the screen.  ;)

ryoken

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2019, 03:57:51 pm »
I was testing today an IR clip with opentrack an the mouse emulator. I'm very surprised with the response.  But the problem is calibration to aim right. But i can tell the mouse reaction is instantaneous for my eyes

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2019, 03:18:17 am »
It's not ideal, but neither is having a giant 1 inch white border around the screen.  ;)

Doesnt need to be a 1” thick though ;)

But yeah its still not perfect but atleast there are no wires going to strange places lol

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2019, 01:56:43 pm »
How does mounting a webcam  underneath a marquee equate to "wires in strange places"?


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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2019, 02:59:49 pm »
How does mounting a webcam  underneath a marquee equate to "wires in strange places"?

If you could get it to work at such a steep angle then that would be fine.

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2019, 03:24:56 pm »
I think, assuming I can parse a high res image fast enough, it should be fine.  So long as it's only skewed in one direction, software compensation is pretty straight forward.

Titchgamer

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2019, 03:29:45 pm »
I think, assuming I can parse a high res image fast enough, it should be fine.  So long as it's only skewed in one direction, software compensation is pretty straight forward.


Its not just the skew though, Its the depth perception to.

It will be very shallow at a steep angle.

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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2019, 04:32:41 pm »
Depth perception? Did you mean depth of field? I think the mars lightgun doesn`t even need a very sharp image, as you only want to find the midpoint of the reflection off the screen. Much like you can be very precise with your thumb on a smartphone screen, even if its 10x bigger then the button you are clicking.
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Re: Dpd mars gun is the next gen of light guns
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2019, 05:07:15 pm »
Depth perception? Did you mean depth of field? I think the mars lightgun doesn`t even need a very sharp image, as you only want to find the midpoint of the reflection off the screen. Much like you can be very precise with your thumb on a smartphone screen, even if its 10x bigger then the button you are clicking.

No, The depth perception.

If the camera is mounted above the screen it will make the height of the screen look much smaller than it actually is so I wonder how well it would be able to determine where the laser is on the screen.