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Author Topic: Advice on vga converters vs HDMI. Sony kv-27fs120 with gtx 750ti  (Read 488 times)

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MiteWiseacre

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Advice on vga converters vs HDMI. Sony kv-27fs120 with gtx 750ti
« on: February 28, 2019, 02:14:08 pm »
New guy here. Move my post if Iím in the wrong area.
Working on an arcade build using a PC with an oldish 750ti that has dvi-I and HDMI   
My Sony Wega has component input that I want to use.
Ordered a Extron vcs 150 to get from vga to component, but that locks me in at 480i. My NVIDIA card will output 240p at 15khz. Whatís my best option for a video converter? Would using an HDMI to component work? I somehow got the idea that I needed to use a vga signal exclusively. The HDMI converters are easy to get, the vga ones not so easy. Iím planning on running MAME mostly.

buttersoft

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Re: Advice on vga converters vs HDMI. Sony kv-27fs120 with gtx 750ti
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2019, 05:44:29 pm »
That VSC is a video scan converter = a scaler, in this case a downscaler. The specs on Extron's website specifically state that it will take "Horizontal frequency .... Autoscan 24 kHz to 70 kHz" input, so it won't take 15kHz (240p/480i) input. It's designed for you to feed in 24kHz/384p or more likely 31kHz/480p input and above up to about 1024p, and will output at 15kHz 480i in the signal types it lists (Componnet, S-video, etc).

As far as downscalers go, the Extron VSC 150 is going to be very nice. It’s analog-to-analog by the best known manufacturer out there, so it’ll be fast and pretty clean. It looks like it has a few different filtering options for the downscaling. But it’s still a downscaler. So you lose image quality, and you only get 480i.

The HDMI options will be the same but worse. They won’t take 15kHz input (generally), and will output 480i probably in a single signal type. They will lose image quality and only give 480i. But they will also lag, and the cheaper the converter the more lag you’ll get. Some people don’t notice much, but some people go crazy.

If your Nvidia 750ti is capable of outputting 15kHz video over the DVI-I port, then a passive DVI-to-VGA dongle and a VGA-to-Component transcoder capable of 1:1 conversion is what you’re after. When you feed your game signal from mame at, say, 256x224@59.97Hz into one of these units, you get precisely the same out of it, it’s not forcing an output mode. The only ones that take VGA input that I can think of are the Behar Bros Garo, and the retrotek one on ebay. The new version of the Garo seems to be having issues though. You should hunt around on the Shmups hardware forum, there's usually a fair bit of talk about converters on there.

Just make certain your GPU is outputting 15kHz before buying, of course 

TBH if the extron VSC 150 is cheap, like $30 or less shipped, i'd give it a look. But i'm the type of person who would try to get like a 320x480p mode into it to see what happened :)

For a more reliable solution, you can look at a cheap Radeon card and crt_emudriver, which will give you composite sync, which lets you use a VGA-to-SCART cable even if that cable says it's not for PC. The SCART cable gives you access to a few more transcoders like this one which is meant to be ok - https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SCART-RGB-to-YUV-Component-Video-Converter-Scaler-/221156873851 

If you can cut/wire/solder, one you have composite sync you could go something like a Jrok converter, or the cheaper probably-good-enough timeharvest unit - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Arcade-RGB-CGA-to-TV-and-Video-Composite-converting-board-game-accessory-for-arcade-game-machine/607318_502847877.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.8.f5295c2aZXVAMz
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 06:13:48 pm by buttersoft »

MiteWiseacre

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Re: Advice on vga converters vs HDMI. Sony kv-27fs120 with gtx 750ti
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2019, 08:59:30 pm »
Thanks for the advice.
It looks like I should feed 640x480 into the vcs 150, then see if I can live with 480i. Play with some more resolutions and see how they work. Iím going to also look at those other converters and do some testing, if I can find a reasonably priced one.

buttersoft

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Re: Advice on vga converters vs HDMI. Sony kv-27fs120 with gtx 750ti
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2019, 09:58:47 pm »
Thanks for the advice.
It looks like I should feed 640x480 into the vcs 150, then see if I can live with 480i. Play with some more resolutions and see how they work. Iím going to also look at those other converters and do some testing, if I can find a reasonably priced one.

You might be able to do tricky things with input res, like grabbing a Capcom game like black tiger at 256x224, and using the NVCP to install 3x(256x224) = 868x672 at whatever refresh was native. Then seeing how that looks through the converter as opposed to 640x480 or even 1280x1024 or whatever. Might help, but then again it might fall flat, the experiment is half the fun :)

MiteWiseacre

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Re: Advice on vga converters vs HDMI. Sony kv-27fs120 with gtx 750ti
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2019, 09:42:52 am »
Just ordered this neat little converter

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.ca%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173815785285

So in a couple weeks when I get everything and are up and running I can do a little comparison post.
Where is the right spot to post my build process? Made some interesting little fails/wins along the way that may be benefit those that follow...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 10:15:06 am by MiteWiseacre »

MiteWiseacre

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Re: Advice on vga converters vs HDMI. Sony kv-27fs120 with gtx 750ti
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2019, 08:36:57 am »
My Extron VSC 150 and nice bnc  to component cables have arrived  :applaud:
Couple things Iím seeking advice for:
-How to get the colour looking right on the WEGA, itís really washed out low contrast. Honestly just getting started so havenít done much research yet
-My PC doesnít see the Extron 150 as a monitor, I have it as the main screen in a dual screen setup. I have to hot-swap to it from an lcd vga monitor. Is there a trick to getting windows to output to something like this?
Thanks

buttersoft

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Re: Advice on vga converters vs HDMI. Sony kv-27fs120 with gtx 750ti
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2019, 05:47:23 pm »
With a second monitor connected, with win7 or win10 you should be able to tell windows to output to the VGA display even if it's not autodetected. It's done from display properties, or in the NVCP.

Hmmm, HDMI can be used with limited RGB colourspace, i think. There might be a way to turn it back to full gamut. I haven't had to mess with it save on a PS3, but this link seems to be talking about it - https://pcmonitors.info/articles/correcting-hdmi-colour-on-nvidia-and-amd-gpus/

EDIT: wait, you're not using HDMI anymore though. I latched onto the thread title and stopped thinking. Hmmm, in that case IDK. It's possible the extron needs some love, either inside or out. After that, you might need to jump into the service menu of the wega.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 05:53:34 pm by buttersoft »

MiteWiseacre

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Re: Advice on vga converters vs HDMI. Sony kv-27fs120 with gtx 750ti
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2019, 02:39:15 am »
Was able to get windows to output to the vsc 150 by removing the second monitor and restarting. With only the television connected to the VGA out (through the VSC) windows has no choice lol.
Making progress towards a nice picture, still not totally happy but becoming playable.

Zebra

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Re: Advice on vga converters vs HDMI. Sony kv-27fs120 with gtx 750ti
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2019, 03:42:43 pm »
A JROK converts RGB to component without changing the resolution.

MiteWiseacre

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Re: Advice on vga converters vs HDMI. Sony kv-27fs120 with gtx 750ti
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2019, 09:30:17 am »
Iíll check out JROK as well, thanks.
Is it because of the 480i conversion that Iím having such a dark picture? Can anyone recommend a picture adjustment method for the kv-27fs120? Iíve been adjusting the Nvidia controls and also the television picture controls and slowly getting a better image. It seems like Iím losing colours

MiteWiseacre

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Re: Advice on vga converters vs HDMI. Sony kv-27fs120 with gtx 750ti
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2019, 10:54:10 pm »
So I finally got a decent picture out of my VSC and my little VGA to Component converter has finally arrived, yay
My NVidia Control Panel makes out that it can do 15 kHz, after some reasearch it seems the gfx card is hard wired not to allow this, is this true? Tried CRU no luck.
How do I know if Iím outputting 15khz?
Any ideas? , want a 240p from my PC to this converter