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Author Topic: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen  (Read 4120 times)

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Paradroid

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2019, 02:24:40 am »
I didn't realize consumer tubes were that restricted on how they can run 240p and up.  :(

Ditch that Sony already. It's like your girlfriend is an idiot but you won't leave her because she's really good looking. ;)



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Neilalphazeta

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2019, 02:36:09 am »
lol

Yeah problem is was so in love with these tv's I stocked up a room full of them and didn't keep any other so I have no alternatives.
I did once upon a time have lot's of other tubes but I ended up packing up them all up for the recycling centers years ago, I really should have saved a few others in case something like this could happen. Clearly Groovy when running large resolutions needs a special type of crt. Although in hindsight I'm not even sure the others I had would have gotten the job done either. I specifically recall having this weird bright line at the top on the Toshiba's I had, and this was when underscanning to display the full image of the SNES/Saturn etc. I had to actually cut off one or two pixels at the top of that line was there too. It must be some kind of cutoff limitation and I have no idea why it was so low on those. They were all ntsc north american tv models.
Looking back I recall having had issues with most tubes I picked up, it was either focus issues, heavy flickering, bad white purity (colored stains visible in whites), bad color reproduction, I even had one which had absolutely uncorrectable convergence issues (not even permalloy strips could get it done). Even the pro monitors I picked up had various issues related to wear too. One of the bvm's I had was buzzing like it was about to detonate lol. Also one pro monitor also had colors dropping in and out occasionally (as in getting dimmer then coming back etc).
 
Anyway back to this matter, it looks as though I can work with 240p by zooming out just a couple points more which brings me close to the limit before I see that line at the top (actually that brings the image to an ideal 232p frame). I basically have about 3% overscan for 240p this way, not too dramatic but obviously still noticeable. But for 256p it's no go, the picture is just too big so sadly I'm forced to zoom out and get slightly weird texts in some games (first game I noticed this with was R-Type but also Zero Team 2000 and a few others).

I don't supose there's another way that still allows me to leave it in progressive scan?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 02:41:08 am by Neilalphazeta »

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2019, 02:45:46 am »
Actually doing more tests I might have panicked prematurely. In Mortal Kombat games even zooming out to 900 h and v size in mame settings, then undoing it back and forth to compare, I see no difference in anything. Games look incredibly good. Games like R-Type and New Zero Team have really small fine texts and on those I see them looking a bit different like the letter "E" might have two lines going through the horizontal lines instead of 3 etc, small discrepancies like that. I think this is workable though.

I'll have to test running 240p as 224p to see if it comes through in a bad way or whether it can be played that way too, but ultimately I'll probably just take in the minor overscan for these.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 02:47:38 am by Neilalphazeta »

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2019, 03:28:01 am »
Ditch that Sony already. It's like your girlfriend is an idiot but you won't leave her because she's really good looking. ;)

 :notworthy:

Yes, one day Neilalphazeta will get a proper TV and he'll wonder what he's been doing all this time. That said, due to the need to fight his chassis he's being forced to learn the inner operation of GM, which most other users unfortunately never bother to learn.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2019, 03:38:47 am »

That said, due to the need to fight his chassis he's being forced to learn the inner operation of GM, which most other users unfortunately never bother to learn.

Totally agree. Love the enthusiasm for learning! :)

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2019, 03:40:13 am »
Clearly Groovy when running large resolutions needs a special type of crt.

Not at all. 256p@55Hz is as natural to a standard 15 kHz CRT as 240p@60Hz is. It's your digital chassis the one to blame for not being able to handle it right.

Here's is an example of the behaviour of a CRT without chassis "intelligence":
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2019, 08:40:42 am »
Please let me know how it works for you and how you feel about these higher res games running on your tv.  :)

I was pretty skeptical but this does look pretty darn good.  I mean itís not quite the same but itís a lot better looking than 480i I totally agree.

Hereís 256p untouched from the Arcade 15 preset:


And hereís with the unevenstretchx and forced 240p resolution:


I see very clear ďpixelĒ blocks much better than the settings from 480i, but I can tell the difference but I donít think the average person would notice.  Itís only in going back and forth between 256p and this do I notice.


Quote
I'm not sure I fully understand what we're doing but my understanding is that by using unevenstretch on the y axis we're preserving the 256p in size but actually displaying it as 240p since that's the limit we can reach with our frequency range (if I'm wrong please correct me).

Not sure that I could say exactly either but from looking at it it seems like the horizontal resolution is preserved, and it looks like the vertical is slightly squished/cutoff, which is what introduces a little bit of blur compared to the original 256p, again itís slight.  Triplebuffering is on as can be expected.  I couldnít tell if I noticed game play differences, but you do notice on scrolling, for example when your characters icon scrolls down the challengers icons before a match in mk2.

Quote
I think for those of us with consumer tv's with limited ranges like us it gives us the best possible compromise yet, and this will certainly work for me until I decide to get an additional monitor with expanded ranges for these higher res games.

I believe as Calamity stated the problem isnít our range (unless you were referring to frequency range), but itís in the digital chassis forcing refresh rates to NTSC broadcast standards and mucking it up along the way.

One thing I needed to do was heavily edit the ini you sent with my settings.  Really I just took my mame.iniís settings and modified here:

crt_range0  15625-16200, 59.70-60.10, 2.999, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 240, 240, 0, 0

I of course added the lines you had for resolution, unevenstretchx, and nochangeres

When I tried using your settings I had a hellava time trying to get the picture to fit.  Iíve heard you mention in a few posts challenges with overscan.  I think your issue lies with using such a narrow range for horizontal frequency (15734-15734).  Iíd try using my above settings and see what you get with using the Arcade 15 monitor preset.  I think youíll have the same luck in getting everythjng to work but will lose some overscan issues.

Thanks for continuing the good fight.  Iíll keep the fingers crossed that this can be refined to manage a pretty darn good arcade experience, but Iím also picking up late 90ís TVís with shadow masks, and hopefully a late 90ís Sony to avoid the digital chassis but pickup the Aperture grill.  If Iím going to go through the trouble of building an arcade cabinet then I want to make sure Iím not sacrificing in game play and original picture.  Iíd probably toss one of these TVís in for a build for a friend in the future, but I donít know if Iíd keep it for myself ;D
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 11:08:34 am by Arroyo »

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2019, 09:33:15 am »
This thread is so much fun. Needs an award for persistance. I know itís not kosher here but Iíve also used the internal mame geometrical settings for 256p content cause my cab is  set for 240p game and was too lazy to change back and forths. I had Cosmic Cop running that way for weeks on freeplay and not a single person noticed a difference. I did notice it on Rtype and Also kungfuma, itís like early Irem games used fonts on purpose that didnít adjust well.

I think thereís something understandable  about caring for picture quality. I wouldnít say compatibility should be ditched for picture quality but I wouldnít accommodate a dry looking tube for the sake of accuracy, and I know those digital chassis tubes tend to have a colorful picture. Some kind of compromise is a good idea though.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2019, 10:14:37 am »
Wow Calamity that thing is awesome. Really makes me want to get an arcade cabinet and monitor and set it up like yours with an external potentiometer for the V size.

Arroyo> That looks amazing. I think the 240p version has an unfair advantage in that the horizontal porches aren't re adjusted to 4:3 aspect ratio yet, when you do that extra calibration you'll have it looking even closer to the true 256p one I think. Definitely not a difference we can spot in regular usage imo.
EDIT: Oh thank you Arroyo for that great idea, I'm going to try that (increasing the range)


As for the scrolling down prior to the fight, I don't think that's the triple buffering, I think that happens in arcades too cause I somehow remember that not being smooth as a kid too, maybe someone else can correct me there if I'm mistaken.

So I checked the service manual of our tv's for the 20/24 inch and 27/32 inch models and it looks like the larger tubes did launch with a default lower setting on the H and V sizes, which might explain why Arroyo had no problem underscanning the image to fit 240p without bumping into a curl with a white line before reaching the top (where as I can just barely reach the top of 232p before that curl and line).

For those with more expertise on crt's, is any setting in my service menu that might help alleviate this issue?  :laugh:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/950630/Sony-Kv-20fs100.html?page=18#manual

That's a service manual for FS100 to FV300 tv's, although there may be minor differences from eyeing the selection all the visible items are included on my set, and I might actually be having a few more towards the end although I think those are incomprehensible features.

I've opened them up quite a few times but beyond doing convergence and geometry adjustments I've never tweaked anything else. Anything I might be able to do on this digital chassis to expand the reachable V size or is it just hopeless?

I never thought about digital chassis as having a serious downside before. I've been able to run every single game system flawlessly with the best picture I've had on any crt before (and I went through countless ones to find this). However Groovy is the first bump I've encountered where it's just not able to work it. I'm not in the mood to undergo a CRT hunt at the moment but I will do it sometime, a Groovymame dedicated tube that runs everything would be ideal, but I can already tell in my area it's going to be a real ordeal to find such a tv.  :D

Yes I've been learning a lot about how Groovymame works and I find it fascinating.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 10:19:22 am by Neilalphazeta »

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2019, 10:32:11 am »
I may have found an issue. Even just moving with the positioning items on the service menu I noticed Groovymame isn't displaying the entire picture of 240p content, it's missing a bunch on the sides and top and bottom (and at the top has that cutoff point with a bright white line), but when moving with in mame settings I am able to see the missing parts. So I guess I need to expand the porch limits in the arcade preset ini. I will try this and see if it allows for full display of the picture.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2019, 10:39:28 am »
So expanding the arcade preset limits and going through VMMaker again made no difference (so I restored them). Not sure what I have to do to allow Groovymame to show the entire image for 240p content and up. No wonder I was struggling with tv adjustments.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2019, 10:42:59 am »
Here's my mame.ini  Is there anything there that's getting in the way for 240p and up to get fully displayed? I don't have individual game inis for 240p content so nothing should be overriding this.  :-\

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2019, 10:49:22 am »
Avoid friction. Use Arcade OSD to verify the modes. Are they fully displayed this way?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2019, 10:50:06 am »
So expanding the arcade preset limits and going through VMMaker again made no difference (so I restored them). Not sure what I have to do to allow Groovymame to show the entire image for 240p content and up. No wonder I was struggling with tv adjustments.


Iím telling you your issue is using the NTSC preset.  You have no range of horizontal frequencies to allow flexibility in your display range.  Redo your modelines in VMM using the Arcade 15 preset.  I can guarantee it has nothing to do with limitations in the software, or issues with your set.  You just need a wider range of options to work with. 

When I did mine the main issue was needing to bring the front porch down to around 3.000, as my picture in the right side was truncated.  I also increased the minimum frequency to 59.7 (was previously using 59.5) and the maximum to 60.1.  Other than that I left it alone in the mame.ini.  I made all of these changes AFTER I did the modeline install from VMM.  Then applied them to the mame.ini

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2019, 10:52:15 am »
Avoid friction. Use Arcade OSD to verify the modes. Are they fully displayed this way?

How do I verify if there is friction, do I just pull porches all the way out to see how far they go?


Arroyo> I'm using arcade15khz preset right now (gave up on ntsc a few days ago). The limitations you see in the ini are for 224 and 232p content only. I expanded the ranges for the 240 and 480i. For some reason on 224p the range I can use is narrow or even the slightest pixel level issues occur like glowing edges, a little shaky etc.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2019, 10:54:49 am »
Avoid friction. Use Arcade OSD to verify the modes. Are they fully displayed this way?

How do I verify if there is friction, do I just pull porches all the way out to see how far they go?


Arroyo> I'm using arcade15khz preset right now (gave up on ntsc a few days ago). The limitations you see in the ini are for 224 and 232p content only. I expanded the ranges for the 240 and 480i. For some reason on 224p the range I can use is narrow or even the slightest pixel level issues occur like glowing edges, a little shaky etc.

I canít open .rar files at work, can you just copy paste your crt ranges from your mame.ini?

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2019, 10:57:41 am »
Yes one sec I'll get that.

Meanwhile here are some pics. Picture quality is not representative of the real thing as I'm using a very old smartphone, but the general idea is to show how even with an exagerated h size pull away from the edge there is missing information (both on sides and top/bottom), when I then add in mame h size to pull it further it displays information that was otherwise hidden by Groovy.


EDIT: here are the ranges I'm using (and then I have individual ones for 256p games):

crt_range0                15734-15734, 59.94-60.00, 4.700, 4.700, 6.216, 0.191, 0.191, 0.953, 0, 0, 224, 224, 448, 448
crt_range1                15734-15734, 59.94-60.00, 4.047, 4.700, 5.449, 0.191, 0.191, 0.953, 0, 0, 232, 232, 464, 464
crt_range2                15625-16000, 59.94-60.00, 3.207, 4.700, 4.650, 0.191, 0.191, 0.953, 0, 0, 240, 240, 0, 0
crt_range3                15625-16000, 59.94-60.00, 3.207, 4.700, 4.650, 0.191, 0.191, 0.953, 0, 0, 0, 0, 480, 480
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 10:59:44 am by Neilalphazeta »

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2019, 11:04:30 am »
Avoid friction. Use Arcade OSD to verify the modes. Are they fully displayed this way?

How do I verify if there is friction, do I just pull porches all the way out to see how far they go?

 :)

It was figurative. I mean don't make things more complicated than needed and avoid things that can fail in the middle. Use Arcade OSD rather than GM to test the different modes, so you can see if they're missing some part, using the background grid.

If you use GM instead, please don't use one of the lamer-targeted so called no-nag builds, which hide the white box on load, which serious crt men require to adjust geometry.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2019, 11:08:50 am »
Alright I will go test on arcade osd + service menu to see what the edges look like.

I use the original groovymame package for 205b. I had the no nag one that Arroyo shared with me and tested it but I realized having info for games running imperfectly or incorrectly is actually practical to know what to expect so I stuck with the original GM exe.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2019, 11:13:18 am »
Alright I will go test on arcade osd + service menu to see what the edges look like.

I use the original groovymame package for 205b. I had the no nag one that Arroyo shared with me and tested it but I realized having info for games running imperfectly or incorrectly is actually practical to know what to expect so I stuck with the original GM exe.

More than that, GM shows the selected video mode in the Switchres line, that makes it easy to check in an instant if the ranges are working as expected, rather than relying on indirect observation like borders, etc.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Neilalphazeta

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2019, 11:17:30 am »
Oh I didn't know the no nag one actually removes that. Glad I didn't keep it then.

Ok so there's definitely a problem. I just have to touch the service menu H size a couple points and it's already cutting off as shown in the picture.

Also in the second picture (please ignore the colors, camera can't keep up) here's what the line at the top looks like (I wonder if it moves upwards depending on source). Anyway if I can get Groovy to display the full picture I can always tweak at lowering the vertical centering via porches and then moving the V pos on my tv service menu and theoretically everything should be working great.

Now I have to figure out what I did wrong for my resolutions to be cutoff on the sides/top/bottom.  ???

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2019, 11:25:50 am »
The line at the top is typical, you just need to hide it later.

What you need to check is whether there are missing lines on top or bottom that never get shown even after adjusting v-size in your service menu so much that you can see the whole raster (once you see black borders up and down).

If you're already there, then probably there's nothing else you can do. Your chassis might be limiting the total visible lines to less than 240p.

With regards to the horizontal overscan, I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. I thought you had already adjusted each range and ported the values to GM so you had no horizontal overscan.
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2019, 11:29:47 am »
Yes one sec I'll get that.

Meanwhile here are some pics. Picture quality is not representative of the real thing as I'm using a very old smartphone, but the general idea is to show how even with an exagerated h size pull away from the edge there is missing information (both on sides and top/bottom), when I then add in mame h size to pull it further it displays information that was otherwise hidden by Groovy.


EDIT: here are the ranges I'm using (and then I have individual ones for 256p games):

crt_range0                15734-15734, 59.94-60.00, 4.700, 4.700, 6.216, 0.191, 0.191, 0.953, 0, 0, 224, 224, 448, 448
crt_range1                15734-15734, 59.94-60.00, 4.047, 4.700, 5.449, 0.191, 0.191, 0.953, 0, 0, 232, 232, 464, 464
crt_range2                15625-16000, 59.94-60.00, 3.207, 4.700, 4.650, 0.191, 0.191, 0.953, 0, 0, 240, 240, 0, 0
crt_range3                15625-16000, 59.94-60.00, 3.207, 4.700, 4.650, 0.191, 0.191, 0.953, 0, 0, 0, 0, 480, 480

Try this:

crt_range0                15625-16200, 59.70-60.10, 3.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 224, 224, 448, 448
crt_range1                15625-16200, 59.70-60.10, 3.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 232, 232, 464, 464
crt_range2                15625-16200, 59.70-60.10, 3.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 240, 240, 0, 0
crt_range3                15625-16200, 59.70-60.10, 3.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 0, 0, 480, 480
[/quote]


Report back any issues you have with overscan (which side), ripple effect, etc.  I imagine it will mess up your 224p and 232p on height...

Just to confirm you installed Arcade 15 preset (without modifying it) in VMM and installed all the modelines correct?  And you are using Super resolutions right?

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2019, 11:37:17 am »
Arroyo, that's redundant, it can be merged into a single range.

The reason Neilalphazeta was using different horizontal porch values per range was to compensate for the aspect ratio on different heights. That's rather sui generis but there's nothing wrong with it if he feels it looks better.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2019, 11:43:42 am »
Arroyo, that's redundant, it can be merged into a single range.

The reason Neilalphazeta was using different horizontal porch values per range was to compensate for the aspect ratio on different heights. That's rather sui generis but there's nothing wrong with it if he feels it looks better.


Agreed, he just seemed to be having issues with overscan and correct me if Iím wrong but I thought it was due to the limitations in horizontal range.

I use the standard Arcade 15 preset and while I had to compensate on the right side picture with the front porches, I donít have any overscan issues.  The mk2.ini that he posted (very helpful, thanks again Neil) has the frequency range of the NTSC preset which limited my ability to correctly situate the picture.  I realized I only needed the unevenstretchx and fixed resolution, to get the picture he was referring to. 

As our TVís are largely the same I figured it would be the same for him with maybe some editing needed to porch values.

Neil:, I have a KV-24FV300 at home, Iíll swap it out tonight and see if it affects things by using my existing settings.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2019, 11:44:40 am »
So actually I realized that my tv has a lot of leeway still on the v size. I stop at 38 meaning I can still keep going to reducing it by 37 extra points (although that line at the top is quickly visible), however on the h size I only have a very little leeway left (16 is my default for all 224p content but at around 9 the picture of 240p is getting cut off as shown in the metamoqester pics.

I can see Metamoqester is displaying the full bottom part but not top, so next I need to lower the vertical centering I guess as the only means to get 240p and up to display right.

Yes I have adjusting horizontal overscan quite a lot to greatly stretch out the picture so that Groovymame is displaying a near perfect 4:3 picture in all the different resolutions (and not having the h size squished). Oh, actually I just realized, maybe that's the error I made... By having it pulled out so much it reaches close to the limits of my crt lol.

Maybe I need to pull it back for 240p content so that I can display more of the picture by just touching the v size service menu item... I'm going to try that and will report back.

EDIT: Thank you to both of, just read your messages as I was posting this. I'll try Arroyo's settings to see if that works, and yes I haven't edited anything in arcade15khz preset beyond the h front and back defaults. It's possible my micro managing of the h size to keep aspect ratio of larger resolutions at my default service menu settings for 224p might be what's getting in the way at this moment.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2019, 11:52:06 am »
You guys are the best! Thank you Arroyo for those settings. So turns out yes I was my own worst enemy in this situation (adding tons of h size settings and enlarging the image so much forced me to bump into the limits of my tv). So by using the same H porch settings I use for 224 that immediately fixed the horizontal issue. Now the vertical issue is still in play because basically the top is touching that white line, the bottom is fully visible now with the v settings Arroyo shared.

All I have to do now is lower the picture. So if I remember correctly based on what Calamity taught me I have to add 0.0637 per line, so I just multiply that measurement per number of lines I wish to add, and I add this to the back porch in this case (to lower screen) is that correct?

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2019, 11:56:18 am »
I use the standard Arcade 15 preset and while I had to compensate on the right side picture with the front porches, I donít have any overscan issues.

Yes, that's the expected behaviour. A single horizontal adjustment should be valid for all heights. Probably Neilalphazeta should forget about doing separate horizontal adjustments per height. I just helped him achieving that but now I believe it was an error. It's making his setup a real mess.

Quote
has the frequency range of the NTSC preset which limited my ability to correctly situate the picture.  I realized I only needed the unevenstretchx and fixed resolution, to get the picture he was referring to. 

I'd say the issue had more to do with scaling (unevenstretchx) than the frequency range. Unless I didn't undertand you.
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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2019, 11:58:32 am »
Yes actually now that I realize about the mistake of adjusting the h size we probably can take out the unevenstretch x in our 256> 240p inis since keeping the one and only h setting makes it redundant (and we can possibly also remove the crt range override as well I guess).

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2019, 12:00:20 pm »
All I have to do now is lower the picture. So if I remember correctly based on what Calamity taught me I have to add 0.0637 per line, so I just multiply that measurement per number of lines I wish to add, and I add this to the back porch in this case (to lower screen) is that correct?

Yes, but hfreq also has a role on this, we had already sorted this part out hadn't we?
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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2019, 12:03:14 pm »
Try this:

crt_range0 15734-16200, 59.94-60.00, 3.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.191, 0.191, 0.953, 0, 0, 192, 240, 448, 480
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Neilalphazeta

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2019, 12:05:06 pm »
All I have to do now is lower the picture. So if I remember correctly based on what Calamity taught me I have to add 0.0637 per line, so I just multiply that measurement per number of lines I wish to add, and I add this to the back porch in this case (to lower screen) is that correct?

Yes, but hfreq also has a role on this, we had already sorted this part out hadn't we?

Oh yes, I changed that to Arroyo's recommended setting now 0.064, 0.192, 1.024 (previously 0.191, 0.191, 0.953 as you just showed).

I remember you saying they are not interdependent but I don't remember what it is I need to do to the hfreq again, if the range is expanded I get more flexibility on the v centering?

I just tested adding 0.0637 to the front porch and it worked, but when I added a second 0.0637 to that same porch it messed things up and gave me a mini picture with a big black frame.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2019, 12:07:40 pm »
I just tested adding 0.0637 to the front porch and it worked, but when I added a second 0.0637 to that same porch it messed things up and gave me a mini picture with a big black frame.

That usually means you screwed the range, get used to checking logs to see what's going on.
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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2019, 12:17:37 pm »
Yeah okay, I was adding it to the wrong porch (front is the last number not first lol). I'm getting there with small increments I just have to be careful rounding up the calculations properly looks like.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2019, 12:24:32 pm »
Looks like I can only add two times before it goes to interlace graphics now.

1.024+0.064=1.088

1.088+0.0637=1.152

But after this when I do the third extra line I end up in 480i. :(

1.152+0.0637=1.216

I'll check a log.

EDIT: Ok I got it working after increasing hfreq.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #75 on: February 13, 2019, 12:31:51 pm »
has the frequency range of the NTSC preset which limited my ability to correctly situate the picture.  I realized I only needed the unevenstretchx and fixed resolution, to get the picture he was referring to. 

I'd say the issue had more to do with scaling (unevenstretchx) than the frequency range. Unless I didn't undertand you.

Perhaps, I was referring to the NTSC horizontal range: 15734-15734 that he had which seemed to be a limiting factor. I'm going to play with this more tonight to see what it is that made the picture look better, maybe it was just the forced 240p and the unevenstretchx was not necessary. 

My question would be by forcing 240p content on a 256p image I would expect that to squish the image vertically in the y plane?  Seems it would be more ideal to cut off the top and bottom of 256p content by losing 8 lines, but not distorting the picture by squishing it down.  This would allow for the proper resolution (minus the cutoffs), and allow these TV's to run closer to the mandated 60Hz range of the TV's chassis.  I imagine there is a call for this in Groovymame, but I'm not aware of what it would be.

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #76 on: February 13, 2019, 12:36:07 pm »
Looks like I can only add two times before it goes to interlace graphics now.

1.024+0.064=1.088

1.088+0.0637=1.152

But after this when I do the third extra line I end up in 480i. :(

1.152+0.0637=1.216

I'll check a log.

EDIT: Ok I got it working after increasing hfreq.

Ok I gotta know.  Are you independently wealthy or just that dedicated that you are taking time off work? :laugh2:

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #77 on: February 13, 2019, 12:36:59 pm »
1.152+0.0637=1.216

I'll check a log.

EDIT: Ok I got it working after increasing hfreq.

That's too much. As I said, for 240p you shouldn't need to go beyond 15.8 kHz. If you can't center the picture that way, you'd rather use the service menu v-shift or equivalent.
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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #78 on: February 13, 2019, 12:39:45 pm »
Arroyo> Yes that might be a good idea too, although with some games this might be noticeable.

So sadly turns out I was bumping into the limits of my crt at 240p. I can lower the image to have the top fully displayed but then it starts cutting off the bottom. I find it weird that the crt reaches the limits at such a high v size setting (36ish) with so much adjustment left. On the H size I reach the limit around 6 but in normal applications I have it at 16 on my tv for displaying a full picture. The best I can do is a middle ground compromise and have a few pixels cut off on the top/bottom and then adjust the horizontal to lose an equal amount that allows me to retain the aspect ratio.

Let me know if you get to test your 24 inch fv300 to see if you have a larger range there on 240p.

Arroyo> lol actually I work from home today is all (part of a startup), so I'm able to slack off a bit and spend time on Groovy. XD

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Re: How to adjust all games to all fit in screen
« Reply #79 on: February 13, 2019, 12:39:52 pm »
My question would be by forcing 240p content on a 256p image I would expect that to squish the image vertically in the y plane?  Seems it would be more ideal to cut off the top and bottom of 256p content by losing 8 lines, but not distorting the picture by squishing it down.  This would allow for the proper resolution (minus the cutoffs), and allow these TV's to run closer to the mandated 60Hz range of the TV's chassis.  I imagine there is a call for this in Groovymame, but I'm not aware of what it would be.

If you leave default settings, GM will squish the picture. If you force -unevenstrecth 0 (in per game.ini as GM tries to manage that option itself) the you force GM to crop the picture.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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