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Author Topic: Best way to run 240 resolution in 224?  (Read 505 times)

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Neilalphazeta

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Best way to run 240 resolution in 224?
« on: February 14, 2019, 05:11:59 pm »
So new day new issue. I learned that none of my tv's (I even tried the 24 inch FS model) can fit a proper full sized 240 resolution Groovymame image.

It seems the picture falls a few lines short of 240 as shown here in these pictures (the bottom has this weird bump or line that goes half way through the line as shown too). Are those the ends of the picture on my tv's?

It seems weird cause I have so much leeway left on the vertical size controls (I see the edges at around 32~33 out of a range of 0~63, and this is more or less the same on all my Sony tubes, which means technically it should be able to go well below but what's the point of them allowing that if the picture ends lol.

Buddy Arroyo seems to have a few more lines of space as his full 240p works despite us having the same chassis but I guess variations must exist (although on my tv's I think they always end at the same spot).

So now I'm trying to force run my 240 games into 224 since that resolution so perfectly fits my screen. I know this isn't what Groovymame is intended for, but I am able to run my 224 and 232 perfectly and they make up close to 70% of my game list fortunately so for the remainder I'll be okay with them running even somewhat innacurately.

I attach an ini for Rastan as an example of what I'm trying to do, but as a result the texts seem a bit sloppy, otherwise the picture seems pretty good to me. Is there anything I can add to the inis to improve things such as maybe some shaders or something else?





« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 05:14:04 pm by Neilalphazeta »

Neilalphazeta

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Re: Best way to run 240 resolution in 224?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2019, 05:57:40 pm »
Just to add, turns out my tv's don't even display close to 240, looks like 232 just barely stops one line before the end of the picture at the top. So I guess I'm missing more like some 6 or 7 lines top and bottom on 240. This is a revelation. No wonder I can't do anything to get 240 right...

I do remember when I first got most of my tv's I did horizontal and vertical adjustments on the deflection board itself (with a screw driver using test patterns). Could these have been separate from the digital settings in the service menu of the tv? Maybe I limited the ranges by doing it on the physical board, or maybe not, cause actually I'm not sure I did this on all tv's, but I do recall adjusting them on most, but right now on all tv's I'm getting this so I'm not sure that mattered.

Doom

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Re: Best way to run 240 resolution in 224?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2019, 07:28:45 pm »
I have something like that on my consumer tv too. The real question is why are you playing 240 games. ;D If youíre like me a 2D fighter and beat em up player then itís 224 heaven (cps, neo, konami, sega, technos etc). I canít remember the last time I played something 240+. Besides a little overscan never hurt anyone. Looks like you can get pretty close too.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 11:03:24 pm by Doom »

haynor666

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Re: Best way to run 240 resolution in 224?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2019, 08:02:13 am »

Neilalphazeta

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Re: Best way to run 240 resolution in 224?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2019, 10:51:55 am »
Thank you Haynor, that seems to be my exact problem!

I modified the ini as per your instructions with:

monitor "arcade_15tri", "Arcade 15.7 kHz - trinitron custom", "4:3"
crt_range0 15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.424, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576

I then restored range0 as instructed.

Now I have the full life bar in Rastan visible with some extra black space above but now I'm missing more lines at the bottom.

I looked in the service menu for LBLK and RBLK but they only affect the left and right sides. It looks like the LBLK needs to be moved down to reduce the black bar on the left while RBLK needs to be moved up to reduce the black bar on the right. I have no setting to reduce the top and bottom bars it seems.

There is a VBLK but it's already at 0, and the top setting is 3 but changing it up or down makes no apparent difference.

Here is the complete service menu settings in my tv's (I have several models of this same chassis):
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/950630/Sony-Kv-20fs100.html?page=18#manual

Neilalphazeta

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Re: Best way to run 240 resolution in 224?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2019, 11:40:40 am »
So I checked on the service manual for the largest sizes too and they don't have a vertical blank adjustment either from the looks of it (seems to have same options as my chassis). I'm thinking this also seems to vary per set (I have one that seems to have one more line at the top). Arroyo seems to have the entire picture before the line starts (although unconfirmed), so I'm going to assume this might just come down to random luck.

I found the best compromise which is from going from 16 lines out picture (for an overscan of 6.66%) to 8 lines out of picture (overscan 3.33%). I think this can be worked with. I usually have no issue with 1%~1.5% or so overscan on crt's since it sometimes help mask edge geometrical imperfections when they are present, but I'm not used to seeing any more than that. However I think 3% overscan is probably better than having a picture with scaling, so unless anyone else has a better idea I'll just work with that when playing a lot of 240p content.  :D

haynor666

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Re: Best way to run 240 resolution in 224?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2019, 02:15:14 pm »
Neilalphazeta You may try 1.324 instead of 1.424

monitor "arcade_15", "Arcade 15.7 kHz - standard resolution", "4:3"
        crt_range0 15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.324, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576

Also in service menu please try to move picture up and down.

Neilalphazeta

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Re: Best way to run 240 resolution in 224?
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2019, 03:54:23 pm »
Thank you. 1.324 seems to work a bit better. I push the picture v position down two points and I get decent results, but I can't help but lose lines at the bottom. The issue is that I can't find a setting in the service menu to push away those blanking intervals and they don't seem to allow for a full 240 lines to be displayed. I think it feels more like 234 or 236 (I think it's the former). By pushing down and playing with positioning and such I can further reduce the overscan to around 2.5%, an improvement over 3.3%, but that really stops there because I already see the black line at the bottom as shown in one of the pictures (it eats up half of the last line), and if I reduce v size one point or move v pos up one point then I see the glowing line at the top. I appreciate the help, gives me two options, the simple one giving me 3.3% and the more advanced one pushing it to 2.5%.