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Author Topic: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)  (Read 753 times)

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Howard_Casto

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Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« on: February 02, 2019, 01:48:29 am »
Ok so I don't know if I secretly hate myself or what, but I decided to give season 2 of Discovery a try.  It seems like half of the people responsible for the show listened to the complaints and tried to address them and that the other half are doubling down with the canon breaking nonsense. 

We watch the first episode and Captain Pike shows up in a very nicely updated version of a TOS uniform and they mention that it's a new uniform..... and then halfway through the show he puts on those ugly enterprise-esque blue uniforms and wears that for the remainder of the show for no apparent reason instead of doing the sensible thing and change the uniforms for the whole show.  Captain Pike makes a point of asking every member of the bridge crew their name saying they are all important, saying that the ship isn't going to be ran like it was before.... as if he's talking directly to the audience and we FINALLY know the names of all the characters.  In this first episode one of the "other" characters even has a semi-important role and goes on an away mission.  Then episode two rolls out and it's back to the Michael Bernham show.  The Klingons are barely addressed initially and you think "oh they learned their lesson and put that plot thread away"  but nope.  The Klingons are back in the fray in episode 3.  So the Klingons now have hair and the front of their faces look more like the og Klingons.... but now they have these weird bean heads similar to the onion head Worf had in season 1 of TNG.  They still have those dentures in that keep them from talking properly as well.  They also make it a point to seemingly address the audience again when one of the Klingons say "we might as well speak English"  and then no more Klingon subtitles.  Pike has a communication with an admiral on a view screen and the admiral makes a note of telling him how unfashionable it is not to talk via hologram, which I guess is supposed to explain that away?  Then Bernham communicates via hologram in the very next scene.  Oh and half of episode three is a giant pilot for the new section 31 spinoff that got greenlit... so there's that.


So if you couldn't make it through that wall of text, long story short is that the show is now a mess of contradictions.  The actual plots of the episodes have improved a little though so it's a shame that all this world breaking nonsense is in the way. 

So all of that is weird enough, but if the rumor going around Hollywood is true, it gets even weirder.  So the main plot thread of this season is the discovery of these red lights in the sky and these red angels that are appearing.  So you know in the beginning of the first Kelvinverse film where og Spock is messing with the red goo that he uses to magically fix that unstable star and gets flung back in time into the Kelvinverse?  Well the red angels are apparently multiple Spocks from multiple timelines using the goo to time/dimension travel.  They are appearing all over the galaxy to fix problems in the timeline.  So yes,  if true they are going to erase/alter the timeline Discovery is in to make it more like the prime timeline again, thus fixing all of these canon-breaking screw-ups.  In addition it will erase the Kelvinverse, which is fine since they cancelled those sequels anyway.  Oh but it gets stranger....  that new Picard show is going to involve Picard dealing with the destruction of Romulus as seen in the events of the first Kelvinverse film.  So yeah, we might get a big old cross-over with all of the shows at some point. 

It's hard to call what they are doing good... it's a hot mess.. but it's such a glorious train wreck I can't look away.  I'm excited to see how they are going to screw this up even further as the season progresses. 

Mr. Peabody

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2019, 04:49:44 pm »
Too many prescription drugs going through the population, affecting the do-ers, and the watchers.

leapinlew

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2019, 08:34:31 am »
Thanks for your synopsis Howard! I enjoyed reading that. I had to wait till I caught up with the show to read it, but it ended up not having any spoilers in my opinion.

The only way this show has made sense to me is by mentally detaching it from any other Star Trek I've watched. When I try to think about the Klingons, timelines, technical mis-matches.... headache. When they introduced the crew in the first episode of the 2nd season I thought "about freaking time".

As much as I enjoyed The Orville first season, the 2nd season is a turd. I've been watching Star Trek to see how they are going to untangle all this, but it's been a confusing pile of story to try and make sense of. I'm still watching though. :)


Howard_Casto

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 01:03:02 pm »
Yeah so on episode 4 "Number One" makes a quick cameo and explains that the damage on the Enterprise is extensive.  Pike says that it's probably those damn holographic com devices and tells her to rip them out.  Again, as if to directly address the audience, he says "I never liked those damn things anyway, everybody looked like ghosts".  He goes on to explain that the Enterprise will only use view screens from now on.  So I guess that's the slap-dashed fix they are going with to repair canon.  I mean that would be great if we'd never ever seen another ship in the entire federation for the past 50 years... but you know... since we have.  It's like when you catch a toddler in a lie and they come up with an even stupider lie to try and save face. 


That being said, the episode was actually pretty good and fairly Star Trek like.  Boy does it highlight the inability for Ms. Green to act.  Poor Saru, one of the few characters we give a damn about is slowly dying and she can't even manage to convincingly act sad.  While I did like the episode, the punchline was that it's a plot devised entirely to fix more errors in the show.  You know Saru's magical ability to sense danger? (Aka he gets scared lol)  Yeah that's gone now.  The way it was setup it could lead to some interesting plot lines but I think that was largely by accident.  Oh and Tilly's sub-plot was pretty boring as we've seen it a million times in Trek.  The little MAGA vs hippie nation argument in the middle of it was kind of strange as well, especially considering the hippie turned out to be wrong, which inadvertently makes it an anti-environmental message which is the antithesis of everything Trek stands for. 


Also I take it that we aren't going to actually see Spock until the end of the season, which is probably a good thing considering how badly they would butcher him. 

I actually have been enjoying season 2 of the Orville, awkward cast change aside.  The last episode where the DR.  ---smurfs--- a robot is kind of weird though.  :)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 01:06:21 pm by Howard_Casto »

Mr. Peabody

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2019, 04:11:38 pm »
The last episode where the DR.  ---smurfs--- a robot is kind of weird though.  :)


Not if you live in Asia.

ark_ader

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2019, 11:44:21 pm »
It would be nice to be able to watch it, but after paying a subscription and then all those friggin adverts...
If I had only one wish, it would be for three more wishes.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2019, 01:37:12 am »
LOL nobody pays to watch Discovery..... we "aquire" it until CBS comes to it's senses and pulls the plug on this all access abomination.  Judging by how heavily they've been flooding crunchyroll and amc with advertisements to subscribe I'd say it's already on it's last legs. 

leapinlew

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2019, 08:17:36 am »
Any thoughts on where we are so far in Season 2? I've watched up to Episode 10 and I think it's not bad, but the thought that keeps running through my head is "Why did they put the setting in the past?" This should have been done as some outpost brand of mainstream federation 100 years after TNG, there is no reason to make it before TNG with technology that looks way better than from TNG. Or leave you wondering why they don't use or mention mushroom powered starships in the future.

One last quibble, the show revolves way too much around Michael. She reminds me of the early seasons of Janeway, where she's over powered and can do every persons job on the ship. They just made her way too everything.

That being said, I do enjoy watching the show. I actually got confused and thought Episode 10 was the last episode. About half way through I thought "They are never going to wrap up these loose ends at this rate". I guess I got used to streaming shows and the number 10, as the number of episodes you get per season.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2019, 01:06:31 pm »
It's certainly leaps and bounds better than last season, but that's like comparing a hamburger to a wet dog turd in terms of flavor.  The self contained episodes that had little to do with the red angel were really good, everything revolving around the plot of the season falls flat. 

The reveal from the last episode kind of kills the serialized plot imho.  Everything pointed to either Spock or Michael being in the suit and her mother just popping up for the sake of a surprise reveal didn't make a lick of sense.  If it's Spock or Michael trying to fix the timeline then they can't talk to their past selves for risk of making it worse.  If it's her mother intentionally trying to change the timeline, having tried, and failed multiple times, then it makes zero sense for her not to talk to Spock and tell him that she's Michael's mother and to get section 31 over there before she bounces back.  Any time there is a reveal on this show, prepare to get disappointed. 

Oh and the excuse that she talked to Spock because he has dyslexia was hilariously bad.  I'm guessing they changed who was going to be in the suit at the last minute and that was their slap dash way to "fix" the plot hole.  Oh and those red spots in the sky... yeah they don't know what those are.  Expect the reveal to that to be equally stupid. 

Pike has been surprisingly awesome... Spock has been more like the lame Kelvinverse Spock, but he still had his moments.  Tilly and Saru ftw yet again.

leapinlew

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2019, 07:10:31 pm »
Pike has been surprisingly awesome... Spock has been more like the lame Kelvinverse Spock, but he still had his moments.  Tilly and Saru ftw yet again.

Totally agree with you on Pike. Not much to say other than I like him and would like to see more of him. The guy playing Spock is doing well. Again, my point is this could have taken place in a different future time and they wouldn't have to deal with canon.

I've been half-joking with my sister and dad, who both watch Discovery. I say no one really dies on this show, so I fully expect robot girl to come back. If they wanted her death to have the feels, they should have introduced her in the first season and really got us to know her.

I've been enjoying this season. It's more akin to the new Star Trek movies than the previous shows.

Howard, I need you to talk me off the ledge. Discovery has been making me want to watch more Star Trek, but I've seen ever series multiple times except Enterprise. Is there any payoff to watching Enterprise?

Howard_Casto

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2019, 08:42:22 pm »
Enterprise is a damn good show if you understand two things:

1.  After 9/11 the show shifted to a very 9/11 centric storyline.... it has some good moments there but as a whole it's the worst part of the series.  So yeah season 3 isn't so great.
2.  The show was cancelled without warning, mostly because Star Trek had been traded off to CBS and Moonves wanted to fund another crappy reality show in it's place.  Because of that the ending suuuuuuuucks. 

It does a bit of canon busting, but nothing dramatic.  The final season is the best, where we get to see how Kahn was released, why the Klingon's lost their ridges, ect.  Unlike Discovery it used it's prequel status to repair canon for the most part.  What I will say in the negative category is that by the time Voyager came out we started to see that same storylines over and over again... well Enterprise is even worse with a few episodes, but if you can deal with that it's a good watch.

Mr. Peabody

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2019, 05:37:24 pm »
Enterprise is a damn good show if you understand two things:

1.  After 9/11 the show shifted to a very 9/11 centric storyline.... it has some good moments there but as a whole it's the worst part of the series.  So yeah season 3 isn't so great.

Everything is good if you're part of the club. Good fiction is socio-culturally independent.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2019, 08:03:34 pm »
Sorry, but good fiction is always reflective of issues going on at the time.  The problem here was that it wasn't done well.  It was heavy handed and seemed more like a revenge fantasy for the events of 9/11 through the majority of the season's run.

Mr. Peabody

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2019, 10:16:05 pm »
Sorry, but good fiction is always reflective of issues going on at the time.  The problem here was that it wasn't done well.  It was heavy handed and seemed more like a revenge fantasy for the events of 9/11 through the majority of the season's run.

Good fiction may include social issues of the time. There haven't been social issues worth writing about since......before Black Hawk Down.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2019, 10:44:32 pm »
Yeah there's totally nothing going on in the world today worth mentioning.  I guess we are all just holding hands and skipping through fields of daisies now that war, poverty, racism, xenophobia and all the world's ills have been solved.  Nothing to see here guys.

Seriously man go troll somebody else because I've got too much going on in my personal life to deal with you. 

Mr. Peabody

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Re: Is Star Trek having an internal civil war? (Major Spoilers)
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2019, 11:06:07 pm »
Perspective, Howie-san. Prevention rather than damage control.