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Author Topic: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color (SOLVED)  (Read 2411 times)

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perjmolsen

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #80 on: January 04, 2019, 03:40:29 pm »
Hi

An update - i have pulled out and tested:
C311 -> an Ceramic cap type C331 - it tested good in my tester 369pf
C312 -> an Ceramic cap type B222 - it tested good in my tester 2303 pf
Q311 ->an NPN transistor type C1740 - it tested good in my tester
Q313 -> an NPN transistor type 2SC4218 - it tested good in my tester
Q314 -> an PNP transistor type 2SCA1624 - it tested good in my tester

Argh... what can cause my green to be missing.. the fault IS on the neckboard... but where  :censored:

I have updated my excel file.....https://www.dropbox.com/s/ygvt1gwbpzp12su/NANO%20MS9-29SU%20repair%20log.xlsx?dl=0
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 04:14:00 pm by perjmolsen »

perjmolsen

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #81 on: January 05, 2019, 05:22:22 am »
Does the vertical size limit pot make the picture any bigger?

Hi

Yes I can make the picture smaller or bigger by turning the pot
A picture of how big and how small i am able to make it.
Do you think that it is my vertical IC that is causing this?
I am thinking to try another LA7837

princess prin prin

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #82 on: January 05, 2019, 06:16:18 am »
The V size pot on the remote control board is fine, yes? Did you swap the remote to be sure?

Maybe the vertical section of the LA7853.

Is R315 5.5 ohm a typo? Because it's 5.6K.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 06:46:31 am by princess prin prin »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #83 on: January 05, 2019, 06:36:37 am »
The V size pot on the remote control board is fine, yes? Did you swap the remote to be sure?

Maybe the vertical section of the LA7853.
yes could be la7853

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #84 on: January 05, 2019, 06:44:12 am »
Thanks to both of you :)

I will try to swap the remote boards to see if that makes any differences.
If not then put in a new LA7853

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #85 on: January 05, 2019, 12:47:22 pm »
Status ...

I where not the remote board.. I have swapped them around.
Still the same issue, so its time to try another LA7837 and see what that does..

Thinking would it be a good idea to change the ceramic resistor at the vertical ic also?
an 103z (10nf) measures 9122pf
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 01:02:48 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #86 on: January 05, 2019, 01:19:35 pm »
New LA7837 put in...
Also a new ceramic cap 103 (10nf)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 01:24:13 pm by perjmolsen »

perjmolsen

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #87 on: January 05, 2019, 05:06:35 pm »
Well

Status.... nothing changed after a new LA7837.. still unable to get the vertical picture big enough..  :censored:

What would the experts advice be to do next, I have already changed all C45X caps, I assume that all C45X caps is to the vertical circuit
Plan: Correct me if needed...my plan is to change them one more time.

And the second problem.. the missing green.
I know the issue IS on the neck board, I have tested all resistors with 31X on the neck board. (Some in circuit and some out of circuit)
Zener diodes and color transistors has been changed.

Plan is to test the rest out of circuit including diodes with D31X

Link to my updated rep excel document -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ygvt1gwbpzp12su/NANO%20MS9-29SU%20repair%20log.xlsx?dl=0
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 05:20:51 pm by perjmolsen »

perjmolsen

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #88 on: January 05, 2019, 06:46:52 pm »
Hi

Hopefully a positive update!  :applaud:
I where in progress of de soldering 31X components from the neck board  - (just to test all out of circuit)

When i nearly where done - I realized that i had forgot/not seen to test R313!

Removed it and... ITS DEAD!!!
According to my eyes it a 220 ohms resistor (red-red-yellow-gold)


perjmolsen

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #89 on: January 05, 2019, 07:44:45 pm »
Well .. happy to soon!  :cry:

I have put a new 220 ohm metal 0.5w resistor in.

Turned it on and looked at the screen... the screen where not as it used to look, still small but green colors seemed to be there, but it where "wobbling", so I when behind and smelled something burned.
Turned it off immediately!!

The R313 resistor is burned... What can take out R313 the resistor at the neck board?
I have tested nearly all 31X components out i circuit...
Link to my updated rep excel document -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ygvt1gwbpzp12su/NANO%20MS9-29SU%20repair%20log.xlsx?dl=0
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 07:53:43 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #90 on: January 05, 2019, 09:48:38 pm »
It's 220K.

perjmolsen

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #91 on: January 06, 2019, 02:25:56 am »
Oh...

I think i have to learn how to read resistor's.... ;D

But now i have put in a 220K and godt this (dark thing in buttom is my camera)... very similar to my other monitor in my time chrisis...the reason for raster lines/white picture on that where a blown resistor on the neck board to the (r40 on a Hantarex polo)
If its the same here... but i do not have any schematics over this chassis..

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #92 on: January 06, 2019, 04:59:30 am »
None of the RGB transistors are working most probably because they're not getting the 200V supply. Check R519, it could have blown (again!).

You want to read 200V (or close) on points A, B, C which are in common but also on points D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L which are not in common. When taking measurements be careful that the tip of the multimeter probe doesn't slip or you could make more damage. If you have gator or hook probes use those (on the other side of the neckboard).
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 05:36:19 am by princess prin prin »

perjmolsen

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #93 on: January 06, 2019, 08:59:57 am »
HI princess prin prin

You where right R519 where out of spec 1627K ohm so i replaced it and i am back where i left.
Still no green...

Have to check the neck card 31X components one more time.... and this time pay attention if i replace somthing

perjmolsen

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #94 on: January 06, 2019, 03:45:35 pm »
Guess what :)

I need expert advice again :)

I am i progress of de-soldering 31X components from the neck board, trying to find the missing green....

How do i test the L312, L313 and L311?
It looks like resistors but i do not think that they are...

If i measure ohms resistance on them in circuit I get:
L312   000.8 ohm
L313   00.14 ohm
L311   00.16 ohm

So far i have tested in-circuit:
D311 - OK
D313 - OK
D314 - OK
R310 - 470R
R311 - 120 ohm
R312 - 33 ohm
R315 - 5.6K
R316 - 100 ohm
R317 - 270R

Out of  circuit:
D312 - OK
D313 - OK
R314 - 18 ohm
Q311 - OK
Q312 - OK
Q313 - OK
Q314 - OK

Unable to test - so i will change it
ZD311 - 16V zener

Caps out of circuit:
C311 (type C331J) - 366 pf -> planning to change it
C312 (type B222) tests: 2033 pf -> Planning to change it

--
So I have tested all 31X, except i do not know how to test L3X and no fault found this time.


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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #95 on: January 06, 2019, 06:57:03 pm »
How do i test the L312, L313 and L311?
It looks like resistors but i do not think that they are...

If i measure ohms resistance on them in circuit I get:
L312   000.8 ohm
L313   00.14 ohm
L311   00.16 ohm
The "L" prefix means they are inductors.

http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/How-to-test-an-inductor

I'm not sure what the expected resistance values for those inductors are, but readings that low appear to indicate a short.   :dunno


Scott

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #96 on: January 07, 2019, 03:15:07 am »
Hi

super thanks for the reply   :)

Does someone know what type of diodes on the neck board are?
D311
D313
D314
D312

Thinking to replace them also...

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #97 on: January 07, 2019, 08:36:44 am »
At the end of this manual you'll find the MS9 manual with parts list, schematics etc.:

http://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade//Manual/formated/Sega_Touring_Car_Championship_-_1996_-_Sega.pdf

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #98 on: January 07, 2019, 08:43:05 am »
Man, I thought my first Cap Kit was exhausting.. 

I really hope you get this working... It's painful following this, I can't even imagine the frustration.  --  Keep at it! :applaud:

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #99 on: January 07, 2019, 09:21:26 am »
At the end of this manual you'll find the MS9 manual with parts list, schematics etc.:

http://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade//Manual/formated/Sega_Touring_Car_Championship_-_1996_-_Sega.pdf

Hi

Whau! F.. NICE! - THANKS  :cheers:

Even though i am unable to find D134 in the parts list, must check my pcb when i get home if that is the correct number
Seems that the other diodes is 1SS 133 and 1SS 244
The first 1SS 133 i am able to find, but none 1SS 244 but an Equivalent NTE587



perjmolsen

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #100 on: January 07, 2019, 09:26:04 am »
Man, I thought my first Cap Kit was exhausting.. 

I really hope you get this working... It's painful following this, I can't even imagine the frustration.  --  Keep at it! :applaud:

Hi Yes i will keep it up -
It started as a "simple" fix - just one color missing.. but why keep it simple :) :) :dunno

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #101 on: January 07, 2019, 02:57:51 pm »
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

I GOT GREEEN!!! FINNALY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What i did to solve the green issue:

My intention where to change ALL the 31X components on the neck board, but i did not have them all, so changed out the parts that i had.

Changed:
R310 (470 ohm)
ZD311 (16V zener)
C311 (330 pf ceramic)
C312 (2.2 nf ceramic)

Now i got my green!  ;D
But still the collapse issue - but some new to that you are unable to see at the picture.
When i turn the green drive down - the picture starts to roll from top to bottom? I have not seen that before - but it is only the first time that i have had turned the monitor on for a longer time.

My best guess bid at the moment is that is caused by C513 (10uf 250V) I have read somewhere that it feeds the 25V line and, my 25V at the LA7837 is only 22V.
And I am still waiting for that cap to get here.

Or as GrantSpain says that i might be the la7853  IC (new one orderd)

But F.. nice that I at last got green! now it is "just" to get the picture stop rolling and full screen  :applaud:
 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 07:34:59 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #102 on: January 07, 2019, 10:27:14 pm »
But it's all green now. Looks like the green cathode is shorted to ground.

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #103 on: January 08, 2019, 02:47:31 am »
Hi

I just have turned up the green, just to verify that it where not the pot when I started this nightmare :)
I have adjusted the green down to normal after i took the picture :)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 02:58:07 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #104 on: January 15, 2019, 11:16:52 am »
Whuu.. finally got my last 180uf caps by mail today :) - Also the extra LA7853 
Gonna put the last caps in tonight - so pray for me that i get full picture.
I will keep you updated  :applaud:

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #105 on: January 15, 2019, 12:42:10 pm »
CRAP!! - NOTHING CHANGED... Still not full screen.. :banghead: :cry:
Changed the last caps, I am unable to get the picture bigger vertical the vertical adjustment pot is all the way up.

I have already changed all the caps, but is the way to change all the cap's around the vertical IC one more time? eg. all the C4X?
or the LA7853  ? If i google the datasheet it says all kinds if vertical stuff...need the experts advice :)
 
Note. The picture below, the color looks strange - but they are all fine in reality.. One positive thing after all :)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 02:59:20 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #106 on: January 16, 2019, 03:35:46 am »
Hi

I have now changed the U550 LA7853 to a new one also - it did not make any change :( 
I have looked at my solder work, and it seems OK.

Also the solder work at the vertical IC 7837 seems OK.

So next step... ? change all the C4X caps?  :dunno

Note at the last picture, it looks like that the picture is rolling.. it does not roll, is like double...
I will try to record a video later.
Picture is fully stable and great colors...but not high enough.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 03:42:24 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #107 on: January 16, 2019, 04:02:28 am »
A small video of the issue


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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #108 on: January 16, 2019, 05:59:22 am »
Hi

Looking in the manual - i found this under vertical sync issue
U101 is a small IC under the PCB - but I need someone way smarter than me to verify if I have "V.Sync vave coming up"?
If i do then it is not the U101. ( I guess that i have a V.sync vave because I have picture.)

My plan now is to change those small ceramic caps on the pcb
C403      103J
C404      105J
C405      105J
C416      105J
C453      103J

 - to see if one of them is causing the issue.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 06:07:29 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #109 on: January 16, 2019, 06:25:17 am »
Tested Q403, Q404

They also test OK

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #110 on: January 16, 2019, 08:10:15 am »
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


F... NICE NOW FULL PICTURE!!!  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

What i did.. looked in the manual.... :blah:

The CAP C452 that I previously had changed to a 104 CERAMIC cap- that fixed my vertical collapse but gave me a to small picture.

Looked in the manual C452 is a "plastic" cap 104 - so changed it to a Polystyrene 104 250V cap

AND.... wait for it!! FULL PICTURE!!!

Just need to adjust the colors now!

YAAAAAAY!!!  :applaud:

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #111 on: January 16, 2019, 08:12:50 am »
epic repair post, I admire your tenacity :applaud:

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #112 on: January 16, 2019, 10:03:32 am »
Thanks Grant!  :applaud:
I have done some adjustment of the color - seems OK now.
I will let all the new caps burn in, then make some last adjustments.

But NICE picture now!

A little video

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #113 on: January 16, 2019, 10:15:05 am »
Well done!

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #114 on: January 16, 2019, 01:44:05 pm »
Well done!

Thanks - I have learned from this :)
So also well done to all the people that have helped me.  :cheers: