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Author Topic: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color (SOLVED)  (Read 2412 times)

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perjmolsen

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scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color (SOLVED)
« on: November 15, 2018, 01:50:42 pm »
Hi

Well  I thought it was an easy fix.. but no  :'(

I have a scud race with an chassis it should be a nanao ms9-29su

I am missing a color, the picture has a lot of red color
I have checked the tree transistors C4001 at the neck board they are all OK.

(I have removed them from the neck board and tested them with my multimeter.)

Hopefully someone (grantspain - the all mighty chassis superman  :applaud:) can give me a hint to the next step...
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 05:13:36 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2018, 01:51:41 pm »
The neck  board

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2018, 01:52:30 pm »
Chassis

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2018, 02:02:32 pm »
Chassis model

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2018, 06:00:11 pm »
zener

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2018, 02:44:25 am »
Super

I will check them :)

Do you know where to find a parts lists? so that i can replace the zener diode with the correct volt

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2018, 03:49:48 am »
if you locate the green drive transistor and track back you will find a 15v zener in that circuit, they do not always read bad but break down under load- i can't remember which location that one is but i am sure you can find it
other things that cause this are the two small transistors in that same circuit

there are other things that can cause this but i would look at the zener and transistors first- swap them from one of the other colour circuits if need be

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2018, 03:53:37 am »
Super !
You are the chassis superman  ;D
I will check and let you know.
Thanks one more time :)

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2018, 10:19:23 am »
Hi

I have now tested the Zener diodes ZD301 Z311 ZD321 in circuit with my multimeder, they all test the same value.
I have also tested the color drive transisters Q302 Q312 Q322 in circuit with my multimeder, they all test the same value.
Also the Resistors R306 R316 R326 they also test OK in circuit.

But I am thinking to swap one transistor first, then test to see if i am missing another color, if not swap a zener diode, or just replace the one at the blue color

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2018, 03:23:34 pm »
out of interest locate the green cut off pot on the main chassis and crank that up- see what happens

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2018, 04:16:10 pm »
HI

I have now switched one of the transistors, still the same issue - no green.
If I turn up the green cut off nothing happens.
I have tried to momentary touch the green gun with a wire from the chassis ground, and the picture got green - so it is not the monitor.

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2018, 06:35:44 pm »
what you can do is swap the red and green wires on the connector to the neck card, this will prove if the neck card or the main chassis have the fault- just to narrow it down
there is also a metal oxide resistor on each colour line on the neck card, acts as safety resistor

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2018, 03:48:43 am »
HI

I have messed up...!

Accidentally i swapped the wrong wires... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I swapped the nr 2 and 3 wires at the picture below, a small pop... and when i looked at the screen just black..
Turned them around again.. still noting..

I might have blown som-ting up  :banghead:

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2018, 05:09:04 am »
Hi

Just trying to find what i have f.. up when i turned the wrong wires at the neck board. Thinking working my way back from the connecor where the way to go

If I test the transistor Q503 a A1020 PNP transistor in circuit i get the following

B->E = OL
B->C = OL
E->B = 0,6
C->B = 0,6
C->E = 0,124 must be OL right

So can i assume that the A1020 is dead?  I do not have any A1020 transistors in my parts
But if i look at the datasheet https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/2SA1020-D.PDF

It is a 50V at collector and 5V at base i have some A733 https://www.voti.nl/docs/A733.pdf
Can that be a replacment ? or is it best to get some A1020


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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2018, 05:13:31 am »
it looks ok to swap, btw that the heater and 200v connector- the colours are the other connector so no wonder it went pop

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2018, 05:17:29 am »
OK super

I will pay MORE attention next time.. why i did it. i do not know.. a minute os not thinking... :banghead:
Yesterday i measured at the other connector, so why the heck i swapped the wrong wires today...

I will change the transistor and double check and tripple check from now on  :)
Let us pray that i not did f.. anything up beside that transistor
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 05:34:37 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2018, 05:45:55 am »
I do not think that it where the A1020 that had gone bad.

When i have removed it from the chassis.
the C->E test OL and not as short.


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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2018, 05:52:42 am »
i would expect an open circuit resistor, these chassis had lots of protection resistors

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2018, 06:05:32 am »
if i track down the print path from the connector (pin 3 at my picture)
I can track it down to the diode in location D955 it gives some strange readings in circuit, so i will try de remove it and test that also.
If not the issue, I will lok for open resistors

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2018, 06:15:18 am »
By swapping the wires that you marked as 2 and 3 you shorted the heater voltage line to ground. That has nothing to do with that transistor you're checking. It's a DC voltage from the power supply with a fusible resistor in series, R532 behind the flyback. It's a fusible resistor that is now probably blown so check it out and see if you have voltage (6-7Vdc) on one leg and not on the other.

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2018, 06:51:48 am »
Just tried it :)

At one end i got 0.005 V at the other end 07.88V
So its dead ..

Having trouble read the colors...

Brown - black - gold - gold?

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2018, 07:00:38 am »
1 ohm but i have marked as 1.5 ohm in the manual, 1 ohm would do perfectly though- it must be a fuse type/ metal oxide

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« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 07:56:47 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2018, 08:00:37 am »
you could use 1r2 as they are more widely available, you can get them on ebay

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2018, 08:10:25 am »
I have found this bag of resistors in my parts

Its a metal resistor, on the bag it says 1.5R
But if i test it in my meter i got 2.3 ohm

The colors I read as
Brown
Green
Black
Gold
Brown

Then it is a 15 ohm..
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 08:13:18 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2018, 08:19:39 am »
looks like 4th bar is silver to me which makes it 1.5 ohm

try and see what happens, just make sure you have those wires correct

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2018, 08:28:27 am »
Yes now i also measure it to 1.5 ohm - used another connector, i think that the high reading where the wires.
Yes the wires i turend the wrong way i have already changed back :)

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2018, 08:29:53 am »
The MS9 manual available online (in a Sega driving cab manual) is of a version that has a Matsushita tube M68JUA068X. Other versions have a Toshiba or Hitachi tubes. The heater resistor depends on the tube type. If you have 1 ohm, better replace with the same value. Type is also important, i.e. don't use a carbon film resistor. The chassis has an optional solder pad for bigger resistors so you can use a 1W one like this:

https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/nfr1w-1r/fusible-resistors/royal-ohm/frn01wk010ja10/

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2018, 08:58:08 am »
With the new resistor in place i got picture .. but only this :(
White one with lines across.... :cry:

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2018, 09:23:57 am »
read resistor R519 4r7

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2018, 10:02:00 am »
Whau... you are right again  8)

I have removed the resistor tested it and it shows OL

Now i have to dig in my parts to se if i can find a 4.7 ohm metal resistor.. Ill be back  :)

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2018, 10:29:00 am »
Replaced the R519  resistor with this one, also a 4.7 metal resistor / but not as big in physical size.
Still the same white picture with lines on  :cry:


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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2018, 11:13:57 am »
not 4.7k, has to be 4.7r and also should be metal oxide
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 11:49:41 am by grantspain »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2018, 11:49:41 am »
Oh...

I have now changed the resistor to an 4.7R metal resistor

Nothing on screen now when i power it on / just black and the normal crackle sound...
It seems shorty after power up i can hear a faint click... only one
I have measured the volt at R532 there are still 7.88 V

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2018, 11:50:43 am »
now try turning up the screen volts on the flyback

can you see any tube heaters?

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2018, 11:58:23 am »
Hi

No neck glow.
Also tried to turn up the screen at flyback nothing on screen. :cry:
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 12:04:47 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2018, 03:01:30 am »
Do you think that i need to look after another chassis?
Strange with the correct resistor that i got nothing on screen.
The small clik after power up, can it be some sort of protection that it is kicking in?

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2018, 03:57:07 am »
i would check the tube first with your working chassis

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2018, 05:45:23 am »
Ok

I have tested with i china 25-29 chassis.  All connected but the rgb input. Turned up the screen on flyback.
Nothing on screen and no neck glow. So it seems that i have wrecked my monitor. Its an hitachi a68ksa30x. I might be able to get a monitor and chassis from a batte gear4 for free. Do you know if that will work?

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2018, 06:05:14 am »
Well it should work but i need to know the exact make/model- it should be a toshiba digital

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2018, 06:36:49 am »
So it seems that i have wrecked my monitor. Its an hitachi a68ksa30x.

Measure the resistance across pins 9 and 10. If it's good it will be very low. If it's open the tube is ready for the trash can.

https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/images/8/8e/B10-277.jpg

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2018, 07:10:22 am »
HI

resistance across pins 9 and 10 is 1.9 ohm

Then it might still be light at the end at the tunnel

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2018, 07:53:39 am »
there should be a diode on the main chassis on the heater circuit, test it one side out of circuit

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2018, 10:30:05 am »
Hi

That must be D507.
One leg out and it tests fine.

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2018, 10:54:00 am »
Hi

I might have found something.
I have tested the B+ at testpoint TP2

When i power it on the volt is at 117,7V

When i hear a faint click.. the volt raises to 138V

It my issue something with a protection who is kicking in?

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2018, 01:37:54 pm »
it would be d955 on same line as the 1r5 resistor

that is in shutdown after the click, that can be caused by many things

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2018, 02:05:40 pm »
Whau grantspain... you are spot on again  :applaud:

The diode d955 is dead!
I need to find  a replacment.
I have some diodes..

I think the type is B83004 if i google it an Equivalent is  NTE586 40V 3A
I have some N5408,N4001 can i use one of them?
 
N5408is 100V 1A
N4001 is 1000V 3A
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 02:42:22 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2018, 03:18:45 pm »
40v 2a schottky barrier diode, i would stick with same type

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2018, 04:29:07 pm »
Super, thanks i have order some.
Now just wait. :)

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2018, 03:20:28 am »
Hi grantspain

Some really good news.  :applaud:

I have just swapped the chassis from the other working monitor, and I have not fried the tube when i swapped the wrong wires at the neck board.
The tube/screen is working fine - so now i just have to wait for the schottky diodes, and take it from there. :P

Thanks once again for your help!  ;D

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2018, 04:48:07 am »
HI

Just thinking... while i am waiting for the spare part, would it be a good idea to do a cap kit on the chassis?
I think that it newer has been done.


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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2018, 04:53:35 am »
yes i would

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2018, 08:16:42 am »
Hi

Phew - a lot of de-soldering and  soldering done now  :)
de-soldered one cap at the time, noted values and direction.
New cap in, noted direction, solder and marked it red for done....

I have changed the following CAP's
C102 1uf 50v
C107 22uf 50v
C201 47uf 16v
C202 47uf 16v
C203 47uf 16v
C211 2.2uf 50v
C212 2.2uf 50
C213 2.2uf 50v
C220 470uf 16v
C221 100uf 16v
C222 22uf 50v
C280 10uf 16v (remote board)
C402 470uf 16v
C406 1000uf 35v
C407 100uf 35v
C408 100uf 35v
C409 100uf 35v
C451 22uf 50v
C455 10uf 50v
C456 10uf 50v
C457 10uf 50v
C458 22uf 50v
C459 22uf 50v
C503 100uf 35v
C554 1uf 50v
C556 1uf 50v
C561 47uf 16v
C562 100uf 10v
C956 680uf 10v
C957 10uf 35v
C958 47uf 16v

Need to order:
C332 10uf 250v (neck board)
C513 10uf 250v
C515 100uf 160v
C951 180uf 100v
C952 220uf 100v
C953 47uf 160v
C954 680uf 35v
C955 180uf 25v

And see if i can find this C411 2.2uf 50v (bi polar cap)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 08:20:24 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2018, 09:05:32 am »
C911?

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2018, 09:40:25 am »
C911?

Oh.. big one 1000uf 200V-- so big that i missed that  :P

Yes i need to order that too :)

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2018, 04:32:02 pm »
there is a np cap near the vertical ic

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2018, 04:39:46 pm »
there is a np cap near the vertical ic

Hi :)

Do you mean C411?
2.2 uf 50V i have searched high and low for at bi polar cap but without any luck..
Correction - i have found them https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-2uf-50v-105c-MDL-non-polarised-Bipolar-Capacitor-Size-13mmx26mm/301017752208


« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 04:43:43 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2018, 09:05:10 am »
Hi

Just an update
The d955 (NTE586) schottky barrier diode has arrived today.  ;D

I have also changed C411 (2.2uf 50V NP cap) - so nearly a complete cap kit is also done.

Just waiting for the last caps
C332 - 10uf 250V (neck)
C513 - 10uf 250V
C951 180uf 100V
C954 680uf 35V
c955 180 UF 25V

I will solder D955 in later today and see if i got picture...

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2018, 12:10:20 pm »
Status - Help :)

I have mounted the d955 (NTE586) schottky barrier diode -there is some progress now the screen turn's on but with a vertical collapse.

But it only stays on for 5 to 10 sec then it gives some rapid crackling noise, then I turn of the power.

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2018, 12:34:20 pm »
Is it the vertical IC that i need to replace?
the LA7837? - can this IC also cause rapid crackling noise??

I have order some LA7837 back in november (from china) just to have some spare parts...
hopefully they arrive soon :)

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2018, 03:54:49 am »
Is R425 good? Do you have 12V on the leg closer to the vertical IC? Is the yoke connector in good condition? I noticed the contacts look a bit charred on pretty much all these chassis as if the connector was kind of weak for the current that goes through it.

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2018, 04:29:07 am »
Hi

Thanks for the input princess prin prin  :cheers:
I will check that tonight and let you know :)

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2018, 02:56:26 pm »
Hi princess prin prin

Status

1. R425 is good, i pulled it out, and it reads 100ohm (brown-black-brown-gold)
2. The vertical IC has 11.58V at leg1. When the monitor shuts off the volt lowers to about 9V
3. The reason for the rapid crackling noise when the monitor shuts off, where my fault - i had forgot to add the ground wire to the neckboard. Now when the wire is on the monitor does not make that sound.

The monitor is still in vertical collapse - it turns on with a vertical collapse line for 1-2 sec then it turns off by it self.
I have tested the volt at TP2 - when the monitor is on with the collapse line it is 117V - when it shuts off the volt raises to 138V

So what do my tests conclude? dead vertical IC? and the monitor goes to hw shutdown or something.. . ;D

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2018, 06:27:25 pm »
either bad psu caps or bad ic or both

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2018, 02:02:37 pm »
Hi grantspain

Ok thanks. I am still missing some caps in the psu part.
I will keep you updated when i get my last parts.
Merry Christmas to you  :cheers:



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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2018, 09:15:40 am »
Hi 

An update

I have now changed the Vertical IC (LA7837) and also the C954 (680uf 35V)
Still vertical collapse, and the monitor shuts off  :cry:

I am still waiting for the last caps, then i have done a complete cap kit.
So i am hoping that the last caps fixes it, I had hoped that the new IC had fixed it...

C332 10uf 250V (neck board)
c513 10uf 250v
c951 180uf 100v
c955 180uf 25v
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 03:32:29 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2019, 05:21:49 pm »
Hi

Also just a small update - still chasing the vertical collapse /  shutdown issue while waiting for the last caps...

I assume that the issue with the vertical collapse is in the 4xx section of the board, so I have pulled some resistors to check them out of circut
R425 100 ohm resistor - tests OK
R457 220 ohm resistor - tests OK
D403 tests OK
R428 560 ohm resistor - tests OK
The resistor below the vertical connector 6.8k ohm - tests OK

I have read online that the small c452 a small surface mount cap could case some vertical issues.
I pulled it out but where unable to test it with my LCR tester and multimeter, so i swapped it put with a small ceramic  104 (0.1uf) cap not surface mounted.

So i will try to test tomorrow if there is any positive progress and let you know
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 05:27:06 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #67 on: January 03, 2019, 03:54:01 am »
Hi

A bit sucess!!!!  :applaud:

Now i got a picture - but it is like this now - so somehow the change of C452 has been positive - i hope that it is the right value i have put in 104 (0.1uf) ceramic
It is blurry and not filling the screen...

So now to some wise words from the arcaade reapair gods - what do i check/do next now?

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #68 on: January 03, 2019, 03:59:45 am »
A better picture of what i see now.
Its still missing the green color and it seems that the picture is double

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #69 on: January 03, 2019, 04:52:35 am »
HI

I tip from grantspain - swap the neck boards  ;D
I did - an from that, the green issue is on the neckboard, not on the chassis.

Now i have a lot of green and still shrunken image.
So i have to find the green transistor on the neckboard ( I thnik that i allready have some new), and might change the LA7837 one more time - or just wait for my last PSU caps.

« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 04:54:50 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #70 on: January 03, 2019, 05:27:40 am »
Hi

Does someone know what resistors, zener and transistor go to witch color?
Just need to find the green one

And another thing.. the C452 is an 104 (0.1uf) ceramic the right one?
I just have fund another post (https://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=36350&start=20) Where i can see a picture who shows an 103J (0.01 uf)
So do i have the wrong one?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 05:37:48 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #71 on: January 03, 2019, 12:56:46 pm »
Hi

An update C452 is an 104 (0.1uf) ceramic the right one

Trying to find the missing green :)

Could not figure out what transistor that drives the green, so i changed them all, also the 16V zener diodes.
(Tested all the transistors in my china tester - they tested all out fine but changed them anyway)

Q302 and ZD201
Q312 and ZD321
Q322 and ZD311

also tested the resistor's to the crt tube connector  in circut (270 ohm)
R317 - 281 ohm
R327 - 265 ohm
R307 - 277 ohm

« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 01:06:21 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2019, 01:30:04 pm »
Update

Still no green - what do i overlook at the neckboard  :badmood:

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #73 on: January 03, 2019, 01:48:18 pm »
31X are the green components.

Just to be sure, you do have 24v on pin 8 of the vertical IC don't you?

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #74 on: January 03, 2019, 02:02:48 pm »
Hi

Thanks for the info regarding green components :)

Chasing the green color:

I have tested the following neckboard components in circut
D311 - OK
D312 - OK
D313 - OK
D314 - OK
R316 (100 ohm) OK
R311 (120 ohm) OK
R312 (33 ohm) OK
R314 (18 ohm) OK
R315 (5.5 ohm) OK

R310 reads 0.466k ohm also when pulled out - I can read the colors but i THINK it is (yellow-blue-red-gold) 4.6k ohm
R317 reads 280 ohm also when pulled out - i think that the color is (red - violet - brown - gold) 280 ohm

So I have tested all the 31X parts, and still not found the faulty component  :cry:

I have NOT tested the Q1X's but I am unable to read the part number's - so if any can tell me what they are it would be super :)
My best guess to the Q1X parts are 2SC4218 and 2SC1624
Must the transistors be exactly the same, or is it OK to replace them with some with the same values?

---
Chasing the 25V at  vertical IC:
Only 22.8V at pin8 to low.... so I have pulled out and tested the last caps that i not have changed in the PSU section
C955 (180uf 25V) Reads: 186uf ESR 0.54 ohm vloss 1.3%
C951 (180uf 100V)Reads: 183uf ESR 0.00 ohm vloss 1.0%

Can it be low due to my last two caps?

Need the experts advice...  :applaud:
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 05:43:24 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #75 on: January 03, 2019, 05:58:45 pm »
r310  470r
r317  270r
both yours are reading ok

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2019, 04:29:40 am »
Focus on the transistors.

The 24v supply is OK even if it's 23v.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 06:29:18 am by princess prin prin »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #77 on: January 04, 2019, 05:39:05 am »
Hi

I my head I had to regroup in what i have changed and what i have tested  :)
So I have made an excel repair log.

It gives me a better overview of what i have changed, and what the changed parts did of progress
I will keep it updated, hopefully someone can also make use of it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ygvt1gwbpzp12su/NANO%20MS9-29SU%20repair%20log.xlsx?dl=0

And it gives me the next step in the green color issue at my neck board -
It seems that i need to test  Q313 and Q314

The 25V issue at pin8 at the vertical ic issue:
I have found a PSU chart, and if i get it right, the 25V go thru D953->C408 -> C954 all those caps I allready have replaced - but i might need to check them again.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w5lyb26ra2j53p7/MS9-29SU%20PSU.pdf?dl=0

To the experts - let me know if I am missing something :)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 06:50:13 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2019, 06:47:42 am »
Focus on the transistors.

The 24v supply is OK even if it's 23v.

OK super! thanks - always good with some expert advice

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #79 on: January 04, 2019, 07:06:49 am »
Does the vertical size limit pot make the picture any bigger?

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #80 on: January 04, 2019, 03:40:29 pm »
Hi

An update - i have pulled out and tested:
C311 -> an Ceramic cap type C331 - it tested good in my tester 369pf
C312 -> an Ceramic cap type B222 - it tested good in my tester 2303 pf
Q311 ->an NPN transistor type C1740 - it tested good in my tester
Q313 -> an NPN transistor type 2SC4218 - it tested good in my tester
Q314 -> an PNP transistor type 2SCA1624 - it tested good in my tester

Argh... what can cause my green to be missing.. the fault IS on the neckboard... but where  :censored:

I have updated my excel file.....https://www.dropbox.com/s/ygvt1gwbpzp12su/NANO%20MS9-29SU%20repair%20log.xlsx?dl=0
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 04:14:00 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #81 on: January 05, 2019, 05:22:22 am »
Does the vertical size limit pot make the picture any bigger?

Hi

Yes I can make the picture smaller or bigger by turning the pot
A picture of how big and how small i am able to make it.
Do you think that it is my vertical IC that is causing this?
I am thinking to try another LA7837

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #82 on: January 05, 2019, 06:16:18 am »
The V size pot on the remote control board is fine, yes? Did you swap the remote to be sure?

Maybe the vertical section of the LA7853.

Is R315 5.5 ohm a typo? Because it's 5.6K.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 06:46:31 am by princess prin prin »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #83 on: January 05, 2019, 06:36:37 am »
The V size pot on the remote control board is fine, yes? Did you swap the remote to be sure?

Maybe the vertical section of the LA7853.
yes could be la7853

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #84 on: January 05, 2019, 06:44:12 am »
Thanks to both of you :)

I will try to swap the remote boards to see if that makes any differences.
If not then put in a new LA7853

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #85 on: January 05, 2019, 12:47:22 pm »
Status ...

I where not the remote board.. I have swapped them around.
Still the same issue, so its time to try another LA7837 and see what that does..

Thinking would it be a good idea to change the ceramic resistor at the vertical ic also?
an 103z (10nf) measures 9122pf
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 01:02:48 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #86 on: January 05, 2019, 01:19:35 pm »
New LA7837 put in...
Also a new ceramic cap 103 (10nf)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 01:24:13 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #87 on: January 05, 2019, 05:06:35 pm »
Well

Status.... nothing changed after a new LA7837.. still unable to get the vertical picture big enough..  :censored:

What would the experts advice be to do next, I have already changed all C45X caps, I assume that all C45X caps is to the vertical circuit
Plan: Correct me if needed...my plan is to change them one more time.

And the second problem.. the missing green.
I know the issue IS on the neck board, I have tested all resistors with 31X on the neck board. (Some in circuit and some out of circuit)
Zener diodes and color transistors has been changed.

Plan is to test the rest out of circuit including diodes with D31X

Link to my updated rep excel document -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ygvt1gwbpzp12su/NANO%20MS9-29SU%20repair%20log.xlsx?dl=0
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 05:20:51 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #88 on: January 05, 2019, 06:46:52 pm »
Hi

Hopefully a positive update!  :applaud:
I where in progress of de soldering 31X components from the neck board  - (just to test all out of circuit)

When i nearly where done - I realized that i had forgot/not seen to test R313!

Removed it and... ITS DEAD!!!
According to my eyes it a 220 ohms resistor (red-red-yellow-gold)


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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #89 on: January 05, 2019, 07:44:45 pm »
Well .. happy to soon!  :cry:

I have put a new 220 ohm metal 0.5w resistor in.

Turned it on and looked at the screen... the screen where not as it used to look, still small but green colors seemed to be there, but it where "wobbling", so I when behind and smelled something burned.
Turned it off immediately!!

The R313 resistor is burned... What can take out R313 the resistor at the neck board?
I have tested nearly all 31X components out i circuit...
Link to my updated rep excel document -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ygvt1gwbpzp12su/NANO%20MS9-29SU%20repair%20log.xlsx?dl=0
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 07:53:43 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #90 on: January 05, 2019, 09:48:38 pm »
It's 220K.

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #91 on: January 06, 2019, 02:25:56 am »
Oh...

I think i have to learn how to read resistor's.... ;D

But now i have put in a 220K and godt this (dark thing in buttom is my camera)... very similar to my other monitor in my time chrisis...the reason for raster lines/white picture on that where a blown resistor on the neck board to the (r40 on a Hantarex polo)
If its the same here... but i do not have any schematics over this chassis..

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #92 on: January 06, 2019, 04:59:30 am »
None of the RGB transistors are working most probably because they're not getting the 200V supply. Check R519, it could have blown (again!).

You want to read 200V (or close) on points A, B, C which are in common but also on points D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L which are not in common. When taking measurements be careful that the tip of the multimeter probe doesn't slip or you could make more damage. If you have gator or hook probes use those (on the other side of the neckboard).
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 05:36:19 am by princess prin prin »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #93 on: January 06, 2019, 08:59:57 am »
HI princess prin prin

You where right R519 where out of spec 1627K ohm so i replaced it and i am back where i left.
Still no green...

Have to check the neck card 31X components one more time.... and this time pay attention if i replace somthing

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #94 on: January 06, 2019, 03:45:35 pm »
Guess what :)

I need expert advice again :)

I am i progress of de-soldering 31X components from the neck board, trying to find the missing green....

How do i test the L312, L313 and L311?
It looks like resistors but i do not think that they are...

If i measure ohms resistance on them in circuit I get:
L312   000.8 ohm
L313   00.14 ohm
L311   00.16 ohm

So far i have tested in-circuit:
D311 - OK
D313 - OK
D314 - OK
R310 - 470R
R311 - 120 ohm
R312 - 33 ohm
R315 - 5.6K
R316 - 100 ohm
R317 - 270R

Out of  circuit:
D312 - OK
D313 - OK
R314 - 18 ohm
Q311 - OK
Q312 - OK
Q313 - OK
Q314 - OK

Unable to test - so i will change it
ZD311 - 16V zener

Caps out of circuit:
C311 (type C331J) - 366 pf -> planning to change it
C312 (type B222) tests: 2033 pf -> Planning to change it

--
So I have tested all 31X, except i do not know how to test L3X and no fault found this time.


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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #95 on: January 06, 2019, 06:57:03 pm »
How do i test the L312, L313 and L311?
It looks like resistors but i do not think that they are...

If i measure ohms resistance on them in circuit I get:
L312   000.8 ohm
L313   00.14 ohm
L311   00.16 ohm
The "L" prefix means they are inductors.

http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/How-to-test-an-inductor

I'm not sure what the expected resistance values for those inductors are, but readings that low appear to indicate a short.   :dunno


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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #96 on: January 07, 2019, 03:15:07 am »
Hi

super thanks for the reply   :)

Does someone know what type of diodes on the neck board are?
D311
D313
D314
D312

Thinking to replace them also...

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #97 on: January 07, 2019, 08:36:44 am »
At the end of this manual you'll find the MS9 manual with parts list, schematics etc.:

http://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade//Manual/formated/Sega_Touring_Car_Championship_-_1996_-_Sega.pdf

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #98 on: January 07, 2019, 08:43:05 am »
Man, I thought my first Cap Kit was exhausting.. 

I really hope you get this working... It's painful following this, I can't even imagine the frustration.  --  Keep at it! :applaud:

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #99 on: January 07, 2019, 09:21:26 am »
At the end of this manual you'll find the MS9 manual with parts list, schematics etc.:

http://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade//Manual/formated/Sega_Touring_Car_Championship_-_1996_-_Sega.pdf

Hi

Whau! F.. NICE! - THANKS  :cheers:

Even though i am unable to find D134 in the parts list, must check my pcb when i get home if that is the correct number
Seems that the other diodes is 1SS 133 and 1SS 244
The first 1SS 133 i am able to find, but none 1SS 244 but an Equivalent NTE587



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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #100 on: January 07, 2019, 09:26:04 am »
Man, I thought my first Cap Kit was exhausting.. 

I really hope you get this working... It's painful following this, I can't even imagine the frustration.  --  Keep at it! :applaud:

Hi Yes i will keep it up -
It started as a "simple" fix - just one color missing.. but why keep it simple :) :) :dunno

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #101 on: January 07, 2019, 02:57:51 pm »
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

I GOT GREEEN!!! FINNALY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What i did to solve the green issue:

My intention where to change ALL the 31X components on the neck board, but i did not have them all, so changed out the parts that i had.

Changed:
R310 (470 ohm)
ZD311 (16V zener)
C311 (330 pf ceramic)
C312 (2.2 nf ceramic)

Now i got my green!  ;D
But still the collapse issue - but some new to that you are unable to see at the picture.
When i turn the green drive down - the picture starts to roll from top to bottom? I have not seen that before - but it is only the first time that i have had turned the monitor on for a longer time.

My best guess bid at the moment is that is caused by C513 (10uf 250V) I have read somewhere that it feeds the 25V line and, my 25V at the LA7837 is only 22V.
And I am still waiting for that cap to get here.

Or as GrantSpain says that i might be the la7853  IC (new one orderd)

But F.. nice that I at last got green! now it is "just" to get the picture stop rolling and full screen  :applaud:
 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 07:34:59 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #102 on: January 07, 2019, 10:27:14 pm »
But it's all green now. Looks like the green cathode is shorted to ground.

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #103 on: January 08, 2019, 02:47:31 am »
Hi

I just have turned up the green, just to verify that it where not the pot when I started this nightmare :)
I have adjusted the green down to normal after i took the picture :)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 02:58:07 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #104 on: January 15, 2019, 11:16:52 am »
Whuu.. finally got my last 180uf caps by mail today :) - Also the extra LA7853 
Gonna put the last caps in tonight - so pray for me that i get full picture.
I will keep you updated  :applaud:

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #105 on: January 15, 2019, 12:42:10 pm »
CRAP!! - NOTHING CHANGED... Still not full screen.. :banghead: :cry:
Changed the last caps, I am unable to get the picture bigger vertical the vertical adjustment pot is all the way up.

I have already changed all the caps, but is the way to change all the cap's around the vertical IC one more time? eg. all the C4X?
or the LA7853  ? If i google the datasheet it says all kinds if vertical stuff...need the experts advice :)
 
Note. The picture below, the color looks strange - but they are all fine in reality.. One positive thing after all :)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 02:59:20 pm by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #106 on: January 16, 2019, 03:35:46 am »
Hi

I have now changed the U550 LA7853 to a new one also - it did not make any change :( 
I have looked at my solder work, and it seems OK.

Also the solder work at the vertical IC 7837 seems OK.

So next step... ? change all the C4X caps?  :dunno

Note at the last picture, it looks like that the picture is rolling.. it does not roll, is like double...
I will try to record a video later.
Picture is fully stable and great colors...but not high enough.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 03:42:24 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #107 on: January 16, 2019, 04:02:28 am »
A small video of the issue


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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #108 on: January 16, 2019, 05:59:22 am »
Hi

Looking in the manual - i found this under vertical sync issue
U101 is a small IC under the PCB - but I need someone way smarter than me to verify if I have "V.Sync vave coming up"?
If i do then it is not the U101. ( I guess that i have a V.sync vave because I have picture.)

My plan now is to change those small ceramic caps on the pcb
C403      103J
C404      105J
C405      105J
C416      105J
C453      103J

 - to see if one of them is causing the issue.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 06:07:29 am by perjmolsen »

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #109 on: January 16, 2019, 06:25:17 am »
Tested Q403, Q404

They also test OK

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #110 on: January 16, 2019, 08:10:15 am »
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


F... NICE NOW FULL PICTURE!!!  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

What i did.. looked in the manual.... :blah:

The CAP C452 that I previously had changed to a 104 CERAMIC cap- that fixed my vertical collapse but gave me a to small picture.

Looked in the manual C452 is a "plastic" cap 104 - so changed it to a Polystyrene 104 250V cap

AND.... wait for it!! FULL PICTURE!!!

Just need to adjust the colors now!

YAAAAAAY!!!  :applaud:

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #111 on: January 16, 2019, 08:12:50 am »
epic repair post, I admire your tenacity :applaud:

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #112 on: January 16, 2019, 10:03:32 am »
Thanks Grant!  :applaud:
I have done some adjustment of the color - seems OK now.
I will let all the new caps burn in, then make some last adjustments.

But NICE picture now!

A little video

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #113 on: January 16, 2019, 10:15:05 am »
Well done!

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Re: scud race / nanao ms9-29su missing a color
« Reply #114 on: January 16, 2019, 01:44:05 pm »
Well done!

Thanks - I have learned from this :)
So also well done to all the people that have helped me.  :cheers: