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Author Topic: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions  (Read 932 times)

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Deathgaze

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Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« on: November 15, 2018, 12:21:43 am »
Hi all, just wanting a bit of help picking the ideal video card. I want to hit a sweet spot of getting the ideal results whilst not spending more than I have to.  My setup is a purpose built modern PC connected to a New Astro City with a JPAC. For the time being I see the most demanding games GM will be running is CAVE shoot em ups.  So, any recommendations based on my needs and hardware setup?

Also, my questions:
1. What are the differences between GCN cards and non-GCN? What features does GCN have over non-GCN?

2. Does GM suffer at all from converting the video output to VGA if the video card doesn't natively support VGA?
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GroovyMAME
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Calamity

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2018, 11:35:59 am »
1.- GCN is newer, non-GCN is older. No reason to buy older crap (like everyone suggests on the Internet).
2.- No degradation at all as long as the card has a DVI-I connector (DVI-I is analog compatible). Beware of DVI-D (digital-only connectors).

My advice is to always buy a mid-range card of the newer supported series. Entry level cards are nice for a cabinet specially if they use passive cooling, but may be weak for frame delay. Gamer level cards are overkill, bulky, expensive, power-hungry, more prone to break, etc.

And also keep in mind that a new Emudriver covering cards up to 2018 is going to be ready in a few weeks, in case you want to wait.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

buttersoft

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2018, 05:30:35 pm »
And also keep in mind that a new Emudriver covering cards up to 2018 is going to be ready in a few weeks, in case you want to wait.

Is there an official channel to watch for this info, or do we rely on catching the posts you make :)

On a more serious note, thank you for all the hard work. I'm looking to upgrade, so hopefully i can find something Atom15 friendly in the new set of cards :)

krick

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2018, 06:13:43 pm »
Is there an official channel to watch for this info, or do we rely on catching the posts you make :)

Calamity, are you on the twitter?  That would be a good place for status updates.
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Deathgaze

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2018, 09:02:38 pm »
1.- GCN is newer, non-GCN is older. No reason to buy older crap (like everyone suggests on the Internet).
2.- No degradation at all as long as the card has a DVI-I connector (DVI-I is analog compatible). Beware of DVI-D (digital-only connectors).

My advice is to always buy a mid-range card of the newer supported series. Entry level cards are nice for a cabinet specially if they use passive cooling, but may be weak for frame delay. Gamer level cards are overkill, bulky, expensive, power-hungry, more prone to break, etc.

And also keep in mind that a new Emudriver covering cards up to 2018 is going to be ready in a few weeks, in case you want to wait.

I'm not overly concern with newer ones, unless you think it's worth the wait. I've found a good deal on a Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 (2 GB), do you think this will cater to my needs?

No VGA but has a DVI-I I'll convert because of your comment.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 09:04:58 pm by Deathgaze »
Sega New Astro City + stock parts
GroovyMAME
Windows 10 64-bit
Intel Pentium Gold G5400 3.7 GHz Dual-Core Processor
Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 2GB
G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 8 GB
Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250 GB 2.5" SSD
Gigabyte B360M HD3 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard

Calamity

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2018, 03:24:15 am »
I'm not overly concern with newer ones, unless you think it's worth the wait. I've found a good deal on a Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 (2 GB), do you think this will cater to my needs?

That one should be fine.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Calamity

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2018, 03:39:01 am »
Is there an official channel to watch for this info, or do we rely on catching the posts you make :)

On a more serious note, thank you for all the hard work. I'm looking to upgrade, so hopefully i can find something Atom15 friendly in the new set of cards :)

:)

Thanks to you guys for providing support here.

With regards to ATOM-15 compatibility, I guess it's random. For the same gpu, depending on the vendor, the bios may be more or less bloated. Perhaps in the future I can figure out how to shrink the patch even more. Anyway UEFI will kill ATOM-15 altogether in the near future.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Paradroid

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2018, 03:40:11 am »
And also keep in mind that a new Emudriver covering cards up to 2018 is going to be ready in a few weeks, in case you want to wait.

Wow. Nice! The adventure continues...

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

Calamity

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2018, 03:48:17 am »
Calamity, are you on the twitter?  That would be a good place for status updates.

Yeah, I hadn't think of that. I'm so allergic to social networks... is it possible to be there without showing personal info?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Recapnation

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2018, 04:19:48 am »
What's the problem with Eiusdemmodi?

Calamity

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2018, 04:41:23 am »
What's the problem with Eiusdemmodi?

Aside from my laziness to keep documentation updated, nothing.


Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

cools

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2018, 04:48:21 am »
Calamity, are you on the twitter?  That would be a good place for status updates.

Yeah, I hadn't think of that. I'm so allergic to social networks... is it possible to be there without showing personal info?

Yes. FWIW I quit Twitter recently due to their changing policies around 3rd party developers on the platform.

Mailing lists are a nicer place.
Please don't PM me with support questions. Ask in public so everyone can learn!

Recapnation

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2018, 06:16:16 am »
I mean, for the people wanting status updates and a place to watch. A new version of CRT Emudriver gets released, it'll be posted on Eiusdemmodi no matter what. Is there really something else needed?

schmerzkaufen

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2018, 06:29:23 am »
Do cards beyond the R7 series feature any analogue/DVI-I output though ?

I may have misunderstood but for those series that lack analogue entirely, an HDMI out with a passive VGA converter might work ?

edit: the question is meant for those aiming at 15KHz of course
GroovyMAME oddball LCD user: W7 64, viewsonic vx3211-mh, i5-4690k @4.1GHz, Rx 570, crt_emudriver 2.0b15

Calamity

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2018, 07:07:48 am »
Do cards beyond the R7 series feature any analogue/DVI-I output though ?

Yes, I have a R9 270 with DVI-I, but it's 4 years old. It depends on the vendor to decide whether or not to mount an analog output. If it depended on AMD/Nvidia, analog would be extinted already.

However newer cards tend to lack analog outputs, specially the bigger models, and probably by next year no card will have them.

Quote
I may have misunderstood but for those series that lack analogue entirely, an HDMI out with a passive VGA converter might work ?

edit: the question is meant for those aiming at 15KHz of course

HDMI to VGA active converters work surprisingly well for 15 kHz, I've been working on that for the past weeks and I'm preparing a tutorial about it.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

schmerzkaufen

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2018, 07:34:14 am »
However newer cards tend to lack analog outputs, specially the bigger models, and probably by next year no card will have them.
This is recent but already the case in my area, all of the major shops have discontinued he R9, AMD choices start with the RX 550 and up, I've been checking models from here with the usual manufacturers and so far none feature DVI-I, only D/DL.

HDMI to VGA active converters work surprisingly well for 15 kHz, I've been working on that for the past weeks and I'm preparing a tutorial about it.
Active ? maybe you mean in regards to power at least, because 'active' for a video converter often means it does its own scaling and sometimes filtering, almost certainly in an ill-documented and advertised fashion, so most of those we buy are lottery in terms of output.
If during R&D you've found models that might qualify as reference quality for that specific purpose, it'll be crucial to list them!  ;)

EDIT: nevermind I should have known someone's already looked into this: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=Analogue_video_output_options_for_OSSC
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 07:43:45 am by schmerzkaufen »
GroovyMAME oddball LCD user: W7 64, viewsonic vx3211-mh, i5-4690k @4.1GHz, Rx 570, crt_emudriver 2.0b15

Calamity

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2018, 07:39:31 am »
I mean, for the people wanting status updates and a place to watch. A new version of CRT Emudriver gets released, it'll be posted on Eiusdemmodi no matter what. Is there really something else needed?

It could be complementary, adding visibility to the main site. I guess what they mean is informal random posts talking about progress, etc. There's no reason why that couldn't fit in a classic forum however.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Calamity

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2018, 07:51:27 am »
Active ? maybe you mean in regards to power at least, because 'active' for a video converter often means it does its own scaling and sometimes filtering, almost certainly in an ill-documented and advertised fashion, so most of those we buy are lottery in terms of output.
If during R&D you've found models that might qualify as reference quality for that specific purpose, it'll be crucial to list them!  ;)

Sure, a list is our main priority. Fortunately these things are cheap, so I expect some community based trial and error for the sake of science.

There's no scaling or filtering to be worry about. It's the ability to work with low pixel clocks what's somewhat critical. HDMI by default works at a minumum pixel clock of 25 MHz, so some amount of hacking is required (check the change log of beta 14).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

schmerzkaufen

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2018, 07:57:12 am »
Ah sure, BTW if you've noticed my edit I've found that article about a number of models from pro/prosumer to cheapo. Not sure it's got the crucial info though.
GroovyMAME oddball LCD user: W7 64, viewsonic vx3211-mh, i5-4690k @4.1GHz, Rx 570, crt_emudriver 2.0b15

Calamity

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2018, 08:14:25 am »
Ah sure, BTW if you've noticed my edit I've found that article about a number of models from pro/prosumer to cheapo. Not sure it's got the crucial info though.

Oh, thanks for the link! I hadn't seen that. The crucial info for us is the minimum pixelclock, which is not listed however. Very useful anyway.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

krick

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2018, 09:38:27 am »
Calamity, are you on the twitter?  That would be a good place for status updates.

Yeah, I hadn't think of that. I'm so allergic to social networks... is it possible to be there without showing personal info?

Yes.  You can be anonymous.  There's a bunch of options for protecting your anonymity in the "Privacy and Safety" section in account settings.  You can also configure it so that people can only see your tweets if you pre-approve each user.  That way, it works more like a mailing list.  Personally, I think that's a lot of work, but you might want to go that route.

To give you an example of someone in the emulation scene who is using Twitter effectively, check out @a2_4am ...  https://twitter.com/a2_4am
Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
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Recapnation

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2018, 09:30:01 am »
I mean, for the people wanting status updates and a place to watch. A new version of CRT Emudriver gets released, it'll be posted on Eiusdemmodi no matter what. Is there really something else needed?

It could be complementary, adding visibility to the main site. I guess what they mean is informal random posts talking about progress, etc. There's no reason why that couldn't fit in a classic forum however.

You know I'm very partial to the forum format, even above the blog one, although if it's about adding visibility, Twitter is better than anything, I guess. It'll be a shame if you ever post something worthwhile there, though, since --fortunately-- not everybody has a Twitter account to keep track. And I can't think of you posting anything non-worthwhile.

inv

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2018, 05:19:26 pm »
And also keep in mind that a new Emudriver covering cards up to 2018 is going to be ready in a few weeks, in case you want to wait.

Cool!
 
Long waiting time.

The new driver will save my rx 560!

schmerzkaufen

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Re: Help Deciding on a Video Card + A few questions
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2018, 09:04:15 am »
Adding a late candid question but; in fact what GPU specs really matter for MAME in general, and GroovyMAME specifically ?

For instance here are the three discrete GPUs I own at the moment (all very similar except my particular 360 which is factory boosted so this doesn't reflect its performance);



EDIT: to expand, is it only core clock, or does something like 2D performance also count? because most modern GPUs have outstanding 3D but suck at 2D on Windwos OSes, and especially modern AMD cards it seems, some old models like R5 430 were much better for that. Even some Intel HD iGPUs outclass expensive AMD and nVidia in that area.
I don't know much about GPUs but looking at comparisons, if I was looking for a clear upgrade in every field and something more or less available on the market, I'd have to look at a R9 390/X, RX 480 or RX 580, everything below would have either lower core clock or lower 2D performance, or just too little performance increase scores (save for 3D of course) to warrant the price and and higher power requirement.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 02:37:50 pm by schmerzkaufen »
GroovyMAME oddball LCD user: W7 64, viewsonic vx3211-mh, i5-4690k @4.1GHz, Rx 570, crt_emudriver 2.0b15

  
 

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