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Author Topic: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?  (Read 7058 times)

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TOMMYGUN

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #80 on: February 05, 2019, 11:26:56 am »
Just use glow in the dark paint. Or leave indents and people can paint the dots themselves. Simple. Cheap. Easy.

In a dark room it only lasts a few minutes, leds keep burning, he could make hollow sights pained white or green inside with a dim led underneath it, just thinking
When i build it they will come

RandyT

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #81 on: February 05, 2019, 04:59:56 pm »
I would take what titch says at face value. It looks like this guy has a viable light gun.

Not in dispute.  The comment was made with regard to what thoughts the manner of the demos might invoke in a potential customer.

The comment regarding IR markers was made as a veiled suggestion that, for those who might find the frame offensive, the addition of an option to use IR markers might be worth implementing.  The code base shouldn't need to be changed much, given that the gun seems to need to see the entire screen anyway.  Of course, there could be a patent issue or processor speed limitations standing in the way of that, so there could be reasons for not doing it.

I also wouldn't worry much about accuracy issues presenting at extreme angles.  The only time someone wouldn't be pretty darn close to the center of the screen, would be a 2-player simultaneous shooter.


Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #82 on: February 05, 2019, 05:08:31 pm »
I agree the angle thing is a bit daft.

I always sit central to the screen because well thats what you are supposed to do!

But people like to be able to move around etc and this does give that option.

I also think his 3D movement concept is very cool. Imagine being able to play Time Crisis (well a similar game!) where you physically moved to duck in and out of cover?
It would be like a VR FPS with no headset.

I think that would be awesome but thats a bit of a way off atm I think.

RandyT

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #83 on: February 05, 2019, 05:32:09 pm »
I also think his 3D movement concept is very cool. Imagine being able to play Time Crisis (well a similar game!) where you physically moved to duck in and out of cover?
It would be like a VR FPS with no headset.

I think that would be awesome but thats a bit of a way off atm I think.

Not sure that this really makes sense in practice.  While it makes for an interesting tech demo, I'm struggling to find a practical scenario when the camera is on the end of the gun.  Now, add a headband unit, and you might have something.

SammyWI

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #84 on: February 05, 2019, 08:17:29 pm »
I agree the angle thing is a bit daft.

I always sit central to the screen because well thats what you are supposed to do!

But people like to be able to move around etc and this does give that option.

I also think his 3D movement concept is very cool. Imagine being able to play Time Crisis (well a similar game!) where you physically moved to duck in and out of cover?
It would be like a VR FPS with no headset.

I think that would be awesome but thats a bit of a way off atm I think.

This would be useful for a firearms training simulator rather than a pure game. 

Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #85 on: February 06, 2019, 01:41:07 am »
I disagree, Think time crisis....

The game is purely ducking in and out of cover while shooting.

Imagine instead of hitting a floor switch or a side button you could physically lean/step out or duck.

It would be a hell of a work out. Be a bit like a Wii game really!

BadMouth

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #86 on: February 06, 2019, 09:05:39 pm »
I would definitely get rid of my Aimtraks for these. Seems like there is much less cursor lag, the elimination of the light bar is great too, no more calibration issues.

I'm not a fan of AimTraks (or any home IR gun), but any lag is probably the result of not adjusting sensitivity properly in MAME.
It's in the in game menu under analog.  Increase it until the cursor no longer lags.  Has to be done individually for every game.

Not sure if it affects guns showing up as mice, but also make sure the saturation is set to 1 (100%) and deadzone is zero or close to zero in mame.ini
Can't hurt.


As far as the Sinden gun goes;
I like the pump action.
The video footage looking down the barrel (which I keep asking for) shows only very slow and narrow movements.
Make a camera mount and get some gameplay footage down the barrel showing that the bullets are going where the gun is aimed while it is whipped around the screen.

Don't make me post my old Act Labs gameplay vid for the tenth time.....
too late.  Here is how much the gun should move around when playing light gun games properly>:D


lettuce

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2019, 07:23:28 am »
Wonder how this will stack up to the Hyperkin Zapper


Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #88 on: February 09, 2019, 07:49:59 am »
I would definitely get rid of my Aimtraks for these. Seems like there is much less cursor lag, the elimination of the light bar is great too, no more calibration issues.

I'm not a fan of AimTraks (or any home IR gun), but any lag is probably the result of not adjusting sensitivity properly in MAME.
It's in the in game menu under analog.  Increase it until the cursor no longer lags.  Has to be done individually for every game.

Not sure if it affects guns showing up as mice, but also make sure the saturation is set to 1 (100%) and deadzone is zero or close to zero in mame.ini
Can't hurt.


As far as the Sinden gun goes;
I like the pump action.
The video footage looking down the barrel (which I keep asking for) shows only very slow and narrow movements.
Make a camera mount and get some gameplay footage down the barrel showing that the bullets are going where the gun is aimed while it is whipped around the screen.

Don't make me post my old Act Labs gameplay vid for the tenth time.....
too late.  Here is how much the gun should move around when playing light gun games properly>:D



I only have one such video but it came out horribly.

I couldnt multi task enough to hold the camera, aim and shoot at the same time but if you really want to see how much the gun had to be moved on my TV to play these games I will upload it.

I didnt hit hardly anything due to the aforementioned problems.

That being said if you watch the previous videos I posted (the screen cap and the tracking test) you would be able to appreciate how much “whipping around” as you put it was required to play.

And that sports gun game requires lots of accuracy believe me!!

Zebra

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #89 on: February 11, 2019, 12:24:43 pm »
I disagree about the price being too expensive the aim traks with recoil x2 cost nearly £180, I have a usb2gun cost me (£320) and that thing was hard to setup and only works with happ guns, which I am not a fan off. I say if his product is easy to setup, and has extra features (already in case, recoil etc..), I am willing to pay around 200+ range for 2 guns :)

No, no it wouldn't.   People are complaining that light gun solutions currently available are way too expensive.  If they ballooned to +300 virtually no one would buy them.
[/quote]

I also disagree (a little bit). My local Best Buy is selling $400 racing wheels for the PC, PS4 and One, so there is clearly a market for genuinely high quality gaming peripherals. There are also VR guns selling for up to $1000.

The main issue with the $100 price tag on an Aimtrak is that they are not very good. It's a $30 product at best. They are made with thin plastic. They lack a decent recoil option and they only come with one sensor bar, so they lack the line of sight accuracy they claim to have.

I would pay $250 or maybe even $300 for a genuinely arcade quality light gun as long as it was good enough to be the last light gun I would ever need. It would need to work for all my current systems and have proper (signed) driver support. It would need to be as accurate as the TC4 arcade gun (10 sensors) and the shell would need to be made of thick plastic like in the arcades. It would also need reliable full auto and semi auto recoil with a metal mechanism. No plastic gears etc. any lenses should be glass.

For extra points to seal the deal, I'd like to see (finished) software support to do what Mame hooker does but without asking people to write code. No consumer product should ever require users to solder or program.

What we absolutely don't need is more of the same. We have EMS Topguns, Aimtraks, PS Moves and Wii remotes and for the most part, we don't like them.




Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #90 on: February 12, 2019, 07:44:02 pm »
Some more cool developments!
PS1 games on a Pi!



There seems to be a bit of lag on some of the games but I am not really surprised by that given the power of the Pi and the demands of PS1 emulation.

Maybe some overclocking of the Pi would help but its a pretty cool proof of concept between it working with MAME and PS1 thats a hell of allot of light gun games!!

ark_ader

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #91 on: February 13, 2019, 10:57:00 pm »
Some more cool developments!
PS1 games on a Pi!



There seems to be a bit of lag on some of the games but I am not really surprised by that given the power of the Pi and the demands of PS1 emulation.

Maybe some overclocking of the Pi would help but its a pretty cool proof of concept between it working with MAME and PS1 thats a hell of allot of light gun games!!

Sorry for tipping the apple cart over, but why not just use the wii mote?

https://www.reddit.com/r/RetroPie/comments/9128rv/wii_remote_as_lightgun/
If I had only one wish, it would be for three more wishes.

Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #92 on: February 14, 2019, 03:48:25 am »
Some more cool developments!
PS1 games on a Pi!



There seems to be a bit of lag on some of the games but I am not really surprised by that given the power of the Pi and the demands of PS1 emulation.

Maybe some overclocking of the Pi would help but its a pretty cool proof of concept between it working with MAME and PS1 thats a hell of allot of light gun games!!

Sorry for tipping the apple cart over, but why not just use the wii mote?

https://www.reddit.com/r/RetroPie/comments/9128rv/wii_remote_as_lightgun/


Coz its pants?

Zebra

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #93 on: February 14, 2019, 11:39:20 am »
In my experience, the Wii remote is the worst of all the home IR "guns". Then the Aimtrak, then the PS Move and the Guncon 3 is the best home IR gun I have tried.

I only rate the Move above the Aimtrak because it is not sensative to tilt issues but it still sucks.

The Guncon 3 is the only IR gun I own that is accurate enough to aim line of sight (just).

I haven't tried a Topgun 3 but my understand is that they are great.... for around 3 minutes before they break. Plus... they are let down by poor driver support... or something.

Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #94 on: February 14, 2019, 12:31:28 pm »
In my experience, the Wii remote is the worst of all the home IR "guns". Then the Aimtrak, then the PS Move and the Guncon 3 is the best home IR gun I have tried.

I only rate the Move above the Aimtrak because it is not sensative to tilt issues but it still sucks.

The Guncon 3 is the only IR gun I own that is accurate enough to aim line of sight (just).

I haven't tried a Topgun 3 but my understand is that they are great.... for around 3 minutes before they break. Plus... they are let down by poor driver support... or something.

Not tried a guncon 3.

But the topguns are terrible!

But as for the move being better than the aim traks, Really!?

markc74

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #95 on: February 14, 2019, 01:32:34 pm »
I've not not tried the guncons but aim traks are the best of the available all purpose (crt/lcd) I've tried. Top guns were way less accurate and I got rid of them quickly. Best CRT guns were the act labs ones and I'm gutted I got rid of mine. Move/Wii controls are not the same thing at all so cant be compared.

Back to topic: I'm liking the looks of this gun a lot but like others I'd really like to see a video with lots of quick movement as close to the screen as is possible (ie a cab situation). I think the reload function looks good but I prefer to shoot my enemies with my hand resting on my hip classic 1880 duel style so be good if there's a reload that doesn't involve holding the gun with 2 hands like in the last vids.

Howard_Casto

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #96 on: February 14, 2019, 01:36:09 pm »
The wiimote is kinda crappy on the pc mostly due to software.  I'm trying to fix that, but like usual I got distracted.  If you guys can keep reminding me maybe I can try to release something with some actual calibration options sometime next week... at least enough for a test. 

Sadly lag is going to be an issue with any gun that relies on some sort of image processing because processing an image takes time (duh).  It can be greatly reduced with efficient coding though. 

Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #97 on: February 14, 2019, 02:02:50 pm »
I've not not tried the guncons but aim traks are the best of the available all purpose (crt/lcd) I've tried. Top guns were way less accurate and I got rid of them quickly. Best CRT guns were the act labs ones and I'm gutted I got rid of mine. Move/Wii controls are not the same thing at all so cant be compared.

Back to topic: I'm liking the looks of this gun a lot but like others I'd really like to see a video with lots of quick movement as close to the screen as is possible (ie a cab situation). I think the reload function looks good but I prefer to shoot my enemies with my hand resting on my hip classic 1880 duel style so be good if there's a reload that doesn't involve holding the gun with 2 hands like in the last vids.

The reload thing can be set in mame so either shoot off screen or use the pump handle/side buttons totally customisable.
Nice to have options :)

As for the fast movements as I keep saying (repeatedly!) Look at the videos of point blank or the sports gun video I posted those are about as fast as you will get!

You can not get right up to the screen like you would with a CRT light gun its just not possible.
And the ability to literally touch a target with the muzzle of the gun does not make it accurate.
You dont target shoot with your gun touching the target do you?
Its done at a distance.


Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #98 on: February 14, 2019, 02:10:41 pm »
Also just to add....

If I play my A51 cab my arm movement across the 21” screen corner to corner is around 21”.
Prob a little less to be realistic but lets stick with 21”.

Now when I was playing sportsgun on my 47” wide screen LCD I was probably moving around 18” corner to corner.

Of course these distances can increase slightly if you get closer but it does not really prove anything by doing so.

The main question is does it shoot where you are pointing it and the short answer is yes it does.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #99 on: February 14, 2019, 05:37:06 pm »
I just like to see the whites of their eyes  ;D

I'll check out that vid.

There was a thing a while ago (about a different gun) using fish eye lenses to decrease distance. Is that something that could be possible here? If its software driven I'm guessing anythings possible but curious if it would work

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #100 on: February 14, 2019, 05:40:40 pm »
I just like to see the whites of their eyes  ;D

I'll check out that vid.

There was a thing a while ago using fish eye lenses to decrease distance. Is that something that could be possible here? If its software driven I'm guessing anythings possible but curious if it would work

Not sure if that would be a good idea but it would have helped Marty out I guess....

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Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #101 on: February 14, 2019, 05:49:42 pm »
I just like to see the whites of their eyes  ;D

I'll check out that vid.

There was a thing a while ago (about a different gun) using fish eye lenses to decrease distance. Is that something that could be possible here? If its software driven I'm guessing anythings possible but curious if it would work

Yes it would be possible to use a wide angle lens in theory but I would guess it likely to cause other issues.

I think the camera/lens he is using atm is pretty wide anyway but you still would not be able to get super close as for it to shoot it needs to see the whole screen to work.

So yeah no seeing the whites of their eyes unless you have eagle vision lol

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #102 on: February 14, 2019, 08:01:10 pm »
Also just to add....

If I play my A51 cab my arm movement across the 21” screen corner to corner is around 21”.
Prob a little less to be realistic but lets stick with 21”.

Now when I was playing sportsgun on my 47” wide screen LCD I was probably moving around 18” corner to corner.

Of course these distances can increase slightly if you get closer but it does not really prove anything by doing so.

The main question is does it shoot where you are pointing it and the short answer is yes it does.

That's pretty much all I'm looking for.  I really don't get the desire to get super close to the screen but different strokes and all, I guess.  I really hope it will work on a projector screen at a reasonable distance (8 to 10 feet from a 7 foot screen or so).  So bring on the Kickstarter!

Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #103 on: February 14, 2019, 08:02:44 pm »
Also just to add....

If I play my A51 cab my arm movement across the 21” screen corner to corner is around 21”.
Prob a little less to be realistic but lets stick with 21”.

Now when I was playing sportsgun on my 47” wide screen LCD I was probably moving around 18” corner to corner.

Of course these distances can increase slightly if you get closer but it does not really prove anything by doing so.

The main question is does it shoot where you are pointing it and the short answer is yes it does.

That's pretty much all I'm looking for.  I really don't get the desire to get super close to the screen but different strokes and all, I guess.  I really hope it will work on a projector screen at a reasonable distance (8 to 10 feet from a 7 foot screen or so).  So bring on the Kickstarter!

Well it defo works with a projector!
No idea of distance though :p

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #104 on: February 15, 2019, 06:44:11 am »
I just like to see the whites of their eyes  ;D

I'll check out that vid.

There was a thing a while ago (about a different gun) using fish eye lenses to decrease distance. Is that something that could be possible here? If its software driven I'm guessing anythings possible but curious if it would work

Well it *should* definetly work with a wide angle lens. The question is how robust, flexible and performant the software is written. It should be no problem to get rid of the lens distortion. Accuracy *should* not be a problem. If its possible to correct for lens distortion and detect the screen in realtime; thats another story. Detection time also adds to the input lag. Best case andy uses a 60 fps camera: 16,67 ms delay + processing and displaying. It`s gonna add up, hopefully not too much.
thet0ast3r

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #105 on: February 15, 2019, 10:01:55 pm »
In my experience, the Wii remote is the worst of all the home IR "guns". Then the Aimtrak, then the PS Move and the Guncon 3 is the best home IR gun I have tried.

I only rate the Move above the Aimtrak because it is not sensative to tilt issues but it still sucks.

The Guncon 3 is the only IR gun I own that is accurate enough to aim line of sight (just).

I haven't tried a Topgun 3 but my understand is that they are great.... for around 3 minutes before they break. Plus... they are let down by poor driver support... or something.

Not tried a guncon 3.

But the topguns are terrible!

But as for the move being better than the aim traks, Really!?

Yes. I have all of them. It's close as both suck for the same reason but the move has a slight advantage as the crosshairs don't jump when you tilt the gun.

The Guncon 3 is a noticeable step up over all the others. You can play TC4 with no visible crosshairs on-screen (like the arcade) as it is (just) accurate enough for line of sight. For games like Razing Storm where the crosshairs are on-screen, the GC3 has noticeably less lag.

It's a mute point currently though as there are only 3 games that can use a GC3. Someone started writing PC drivers to use it with mame a while ago. I'd like someone to finish them at some point if nobody is ever going to release a decent PC gun.

For now, the GC2 with a crt is the only acceptible way to play light gun games on a PC. I have my GC2 converted recoil gun for light guns games and a pair of fixed directional guns for the rest.

Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #106 on: February 15, 2019, 11:27:18 pm »
In my experience, the Wii remote is the worst of all the home IR "guns". Then the Aimtrak, then the PS Move and the Guncon 3 is the best home IR gun I have tried.

I only rate the Move above the Aimtrak because it is not sensative to tilt issues but it still sucks.

The Guncon 3 is the only IR gun I own that is accurate enough to aim line of sight (just).

I haven't tried a Topgun 3 but my understand is that they are great.... for around 3 minutes before they break. Plus... they are let down by poor driver support... or something.

Not tried a guncon 3.

But the topguns are terrible!

But as for the move being better than the aim traks, Really!?

Yes. I have all of them. It's close as both suck for the same reason but the move has a slight advantage as the crosshairs don't jump when you tilt the gun.

The Guncon 3 is a noticeable step up over all the others. You can play TC4 with no visible crosshairs on-screen (like the arcade) as it is (just) accurate enough for line of sight. For games like Razing Storm where the crosshairs are on-screen, the GC3 has noticeably less lag.

It's a mute point currently though as there are only 3 games that can use a GC3. Someone started writing PC drivers to use it with mame a while ago. I'd like someone to finish them at some point if nobody is ever going to release a decent PC gun.

For now, the GC2 with a crt is the only acceptible way to play light gun games on a PC. I have my GC2 converted recoil gun for light guns games and a pair of fixed directional guns for the rest.

Simple solution is not to tilt the gun gangsta! :p

I only ever play with the gun held normally so never experienced this jumping you describe for the AT but as the move is basically just a colour tracker I am surprised to hear it jumps if its rotated??

Zebra

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #107 on: February 16, 2019, 12:25:04 am »
It is virtually impossible to hold the gun completely straight when playing. There is no solution except put the Aimtrak in the trash.

The tilt issue is far from the main problem with them. They are not accurate. They are not well made. They feel cheap and are no fun to use. They have too few sensors so all the calibration in the world will not help. The lag is terrible.

For directional gun games with a crosshairs on screen, you are better off with a real arcade gun plus an Apac. For light gun games, a Guncon 2 is $15 on eBay and is unrivaled for accuracy for home light guns.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #108 on: February 16, 2019, 03:33:59 am »
It is virtually impossible to hold the gun completely straight when playing. There is no solution except put the Aimtrak in the trash.

The tilt issue is far from the main problem with them. They are not accurate. They are not well made. They feel cheap and are no fun to use. They have too few sensors so all the calibration in the world will not help. The lag is terrible.

For directional gun games with a crosshairs on screen, you are better off with a real arcade gun plus an Apac. For light gun games, a Guncon 2 is $15 on eBay and is unrivaled for accuracy for home light guns.

Cant say I have those issues.

The plastic they are made from is not the best though I agree there.

Mine hold their calibration fine and suffer no noticeable lag except in games which lag themselves but thats not the guns fault.

The only time I ever have any real problems is with heavy sunlight but thats a easy fix.

They are the best LCD guns I have used with the exception of the Sinden one but obv thats not released yet and was still a prototype when I used it last.

As for the GC2 its probably the finest lightgun ever made for home use and I still have 2 for my PS2 but of course I need the CRT to....

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #109 on: February 16, 2019, 07:27:14 am »
That's pretty much all I'm looking for.  I really don't get the desire to get super close to the screen but different strokes and all, I guess.  I really hope it will work on a projector screen at a reasonable distance (8 to 10 feet from a 7 foot screen or so).  So bring on the Kickstarter!

Standing 8-10ft from a 7ft screen would pretty much be the same as standing 2.5-3ft from a 24"(4:3 ratio) screen.
This is about the range people are asking for IMO. 
My cab has 5ft of open space in front of it.  By the time extend my arm, there is only 2-2.5ft left between the gun and the screen.

The gameplay video I posed above was on my old setup.  The gun is about 36" away from a 32" CRT TV.
I could have stood as far back as I wanted, but that is what felt right based on arcade experience.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #110 on: February 16, 2019, 07:31:39 am »
It is virtually impossible to hold the gun completely straight when playing. There is no solution except put the Aimtrak in the trash.

The tilt issue is far from the main problem with them. They are not accurate. They are not well made. They feel cheap and are no fun to use. They have too few sensors so all the calibration in the world will not help. The lag is terrible.

For directional gun games with a crosshairs on screen, you are better off with a real arcade gun plus an Apac. For light gun games, a Guncon 2 is $15 on eBay and is unrivaled for accuracy for home light guns.

Other than the software drivers issue, my LCD Topguns work pretty well in nearly all applications, including my old modded Xbox, and the Cronus for PS3, (et al.) and everything else.  I have recoil (great for 2 minutes) and the LED tracking is superb.  The emitters are a bit untidy but there are other solutions.  Nothing like playing House of the Dead on a 100" projector wall, or on the side of a garage.  I can also take them out with me to the liquor store if I wanted to be killed by the police.  Yeah they look that real.  ;D

Far superior to the Aimtrak in every way.
If I had only one wish, it would be for three more wishes.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #111 on: February 16, 2019, 09:16:45 am »
That's pretty much all I'm looking for.  I really don't get the desire to get super close to the screen but different strokes and all, I guess.  I really hope it will work on a projector screen at a reasonable distance (8 to 10 feet from a 7 foot screen or so).  So bring on the Kickstarter!

Standing 8-10ft from a 7ft screen would pretty much be the same as standing 2.5-3ft from a 24"(4:3 ratio) screen.
This is about the range people are asking for IMO. 
My cab has 5ft of open space in front of it.  By the time extend my arm, there is only 2-2.5ft left between the gun and the screen.

The gameplay video I posed above was on my old setup.  The gun is about 36" away from a 32" CRT TV.
I could have stood as far back as I wanted, but that is what felt right based on arcade experience.

I may have been reading a bit too much into some of the back and forth here along with some of the talk about a wide angle lens.  At the size to distance ratio I posted a standard web cam has no problem seeing the entire screen (and could be a bit closer).  Although that's pointed at center of screen, so when pointed at the screen edge it may need a wider angle lens or software that can work with a partial screen view.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #112 on: February 16, 2019, 10:43:11 am »
It is virtually impossible to hold the gun completely straight when playing. There is no solution except put the Aimtrak in the trash.

The tilt issue is far from the main problem with them. They are not accurate. They are not well made. They feel cheap and are no fun to use. They have too few sensors so all the calibration in the world will not help. The lag is terrible.

For directional gun games with a crosshairs on screen, you are better off with a real arcade gun plus an Apac. For light gun games, a Guncon 2 is $15 on eBay and is unrivaled for accuracy for home light guns.

Other than the software drivers issue, my LCD Topguns work pretty well in nearly all applications, including my old modded Xbox, and the Cronus for PS3, (et al.) and everything else.  I have recoil (great for 2 minutes) and the LED tracking is superb.  The emitters are a bit untidy but there are other solutions.  Nothing like playing House of the Dead on a 100" projector wall, or on the side of a garage.  I can also take them out with me to the liquor store if I wanted to be killed by the police.  Yeah they look that real.  ;D

Far superior to the Aimtrak in every way.

Thanks for the Topgun info. I wondered about them because they were designed to be used for games like Time Crisis 2 and 3 with no crosshairs on screen. They have four sensors which is more than any home IR gun so they seem like they had potential. Still not the 10 you get on arcade IR guns but better an Aimtrak or Wii remote.

From reading the very mixed reviews, it seems like they are good if you get a working one but at least 50% of the reviews said they broke quickly (within a week) or never worked at all. So... it's a bit of a gamble. Sounds like you got a good one.

My bet is that a large portion of the technical issues were related to those poor drivers and associated user error. Apparently they required windows to be in test mode like CRT EMU drivers. That alone is enough to confuse 99% of the world...





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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #113 on: February 16, 2019, 10:49:51 am »
I still have a topgun 2 in the loft and although its not broken it would never hold calibration.

Sure as hell couldn’t use it without crosshairs anyway!

I tried flogging it a while back but nobody wanted it funnily enough lol

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #114 on: February 16, 2019, 02:58:22 pm »
I still have a topgun 2 in the loft and although its not broken it would never hold calibration.

Sure as hell couldn’t use it without crosshairs anyway!

I tried flogging it a while back but nobody wanted it funnily enough lol

Um.... that sounds broken to me...

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #115 on: February 16, 2019, 03:03:08 pm »
Out of curiosity, does anyone know enough about IR guns to say if it is possible to add more sensors to an Aimtrak?

I.e., could you wire a bunch of extra LED boards into the main sensor and position them all around the screen like in Arcade cabs, or.... would you need to rewrite the drivers to make it recognize a greater number of sensors and sensors positioned on the Y axis?

It doesn't seem to require different drivers when you use the super long IR bar.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #116 on: February 16, 2019, 04:07:11 pm »
Out of curiosity, does anyone know enough about IR guns to say if it is possible to add more sensors to an Aimtrak?

I.e., could you wire a bunch of extra LED boards into the main sensor and position them all around the screen like in Arcade cabs, or.... would you need to rewrite the drivers to make it recognize a greater number of sensors and sensors positioned on the Y axis?

It doesn't seem to require different drivers when you use the super long IR bar.

The AT sensor is angled upwards not straight so It wouldn’t help if they were bellow the screen.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #117 on: February 16, 2019, 05:25:35 pm »
Out of curiosity, does anyone know enough about IR guns to say if it is possible to add more sensors to an Aimtrak?

I.e., could you wire a bunch of extra LED boards into the main sensor and position them all around the screen like in Arcade cabs, or.... would you need to rewrite the drivers to make it recognize a greater number of sensors and sensors positioned on the Y axis?

It doesn't seem to require different drivers when you use the super long IR bar.
Andy from Ultimarc has commented that he sells a commercial version with more IR LEDs.  IIRC it was 4 LEDs and the normal aim-traks with different firmware. So it is possible.  What wasn't said was how much it costs to get that other firmware and how good the results are.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #118 on: February 18, 2019, 01:58:05 pm »
Out of curiosity, does anyone know enough about IR guns to say if it is possible to add more sensors to an Aimtrak?

I.e., could you wire a bunch of extra LED boards into the main sensor and position them all around the screen like in Arcade cabs, or.... would you need to rewrite the drivers to make it recognize a greater number of sensors and sensors positioned on the Y axis?

It doesn't seem to require different drivers when you use the super long IR bar.
Andy from Ultimarc has commented that he sells a commercial version with more IR LEDs.  IIRC it was 4 LEDs and the normal aim-traks with different firmware. So it is possible.  What wasn't said was how much it costs to get that other firmware and how good the results are.

You sure he wasn't talking about their "super wide" IR bars?

It's hard to believe that he has a better product available but he doesn't offer it for sale or any info on it on his site... who would he be selling these commercial versions to? I am fairly sure that no arcade game makers are using Aimtraks in their cabs. If not for arcades, what commercial use could there be?




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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #119 on: February 18, 2019, 03:14:27 pm »
Watching this review of the Topgun 3, it looks like it works fairly well on the PS2 and Xbox with games that were designed for real light guns. It's the PC performance that seems to let them down:



As they have a Guncon 2 mode, I wonder if they would work better with the Wingun (Guncon 2 windows drivers)?

I'm just glad I stocked up on CRT monitors. I don't have the patience to deal with all the IR gun issues. Even the very best arcade CCD gun is no match for official Guncon 2.