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Author Topic: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?  (Read 5290 times)

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Zebra

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2018, 09:24:10 pm »
There is no light gun that has "blow back" as a recoil mechanism.Blow back is a firearms term that describes how some semi and full auto rifles cycle and chamber a round.

Airgun manufacturer like Cybergun (who made a few light guns too) use "blow-back" as a term to describe their models with simulated recoil. It doesn't describe to the type of recoil mechanism (which could be gas, motor or solenoid).

The 3rd option for recoil is a to use a motor (like the one used on Operation Wolf). I think this is the best option for full auto as they deliver continuous cycling without additional components or software.

I'd be ok with either a solenoid or a motor for recoil (if done well). I don't consider vibrating ones to be real recoil.

I would definately not buy any new light gun that did not have recoil, no matter what. If I don't get the arcade experience, I prefer not to play gun games at all.

I'm a little tired of these half finished products that make you fit your own solenoid, find your own PSU etc. I want one that is ready to use out the box with everything you need included.


Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2018, 01:54:15 am »
There is no light gun that has "blow back" as a recoil mechanism.Blow back is a firearms term that describes how some semi and full auto rifles cycle and chamber a round.

Airgun manufacturer like Cybergun (who made a few light guns too) use "blow-back" as a term to describe their models with simulated recoil. It doesn't describe to the type of recoil mechanism (which could be gas, motor or solenoid).

The 3rd option for recoil is a to use a motor (like the one used on Operation Wolf). I think this is the best option for full auto as they deliver continuous cycling without additional components or software.

I'd be ok with either a solenoid or a motor for recoil (if done well). I don't consider vibrating ones to be real recoil.

I would definately not buy any new light gun that did not have recoil, no matter what. If I don't get the arcade experience, I prefer not to play gun games at all.

I'm a little tired of these half finished products that make you fit your own solenoid, find your own PSU etc. I want one that is ready to use out the box with everything you need included.

And yet you know exactly the type of recoil even though it doesn’t exist lol

Obviously a light gun cant use the gas pressure to cycle the slide which does nothing at all....

However, Personally I would prefer a quality gun that tracks perfectly over one that has recoil and doesn’t.

Not all arcade gun games had recoil, Infact there are prob more that dont than do.



baritonomarchetto

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2018, 12:46:58 am »
A recoil is a second order feature ATM. When a good tracking method will be studied and implemented it will gain first order. This is something a prototipe with commercial will should take into account.
In my experience rumble is better than nothing and rise the driving experience to another level. It's not FF, but anyway...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 12:50:01 am by baritonomarchetto »

marioxb

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2018, 11:14:50 pm »
There is no light gun that has "blow back" as a recoil mechanism.Blow back is a firearms term that describes how some semi and full auto rifles cycle and chamber a round.

Airgun manufacturer like Cybergun (who made a few light guns too) use "blow-back" as a term to describe their models with simulated recoil. It doesn't describe to the type of recoil mechanism (which could be gas, motor or solenoid).

The 3rd option for recoil is a to use a motor (like the one used on Operation Wolf). I think this is the best option for full auto as they deliver continuous cycling without additional components or software.

I'd be ok with either a solenoid or a motor for recoil (if done well). I don't consider vibrating ones to be real recoil.

I would definately not buy any new light gun that did not have recoil, no matter what. If I don't get the arcade experience, I prefer not to play gun games at all.

I'm a little tired of these half finished products that make you fit your own solenoid, find your own PSU etc. I want one that is ready to use out the box with everything you need included.

And yet you know exactly the type of recoil even though it doesn’t exist lol

Obviously a light gun cant use the gas pressure to cycle the slide which does nothing at all....

However, Personally I would prefer a quality gun that tracks perfectly over one that has recoil and doesn’t.

Not all arcade gun games had recoil, Infact there are prob more that dont than do.

That's true, my favorite light gun games are the ones that don't have recoil. Lethal Enforcers and the Nintendo Vs games.

Retro77

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2018, 08:41:49 pm »
I am very interested in this project too. I really want to add lightguns to my cab

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2019, 11:46:48 am »

ZTylerDurden717

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2019, 11:54:01 am »
Mr. Sinden is doing something that could blow the lid off the stigma of light guns on LCDs.

Based on that RPi video there's some delay in the shot.  Did you experience that in the non-Rpi test?

Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2019, 12:03:05 pm »
Mr. Sinden is doing something that could blow the lid off the stigma of light guns on LCDs.

Based on that RPi video there's some delay in the shot.  Did you experience that in the non-Rpi test?

No noticeable lag while playing on a Laptop no.

ZTylerDurden717

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2019, 12:52:21 pm »
That's amazing.

TOMMYGUN

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2019, 03:30:13 pm »
If you contact Mr Sinden again make sure he produces a black gun, i hate the colored ones just because they are colored, now that sounds racist... but i want realism and black is also sleek looking, and i would want no recoil mech it makes to much sound and pulls you out the experience, and a silent trigger let the speakers make the sounds.
Very impressive project, let us know when the kickstarter starts, i might pre-order 2, very impressive  :notworthy:
When i build it they will come

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2019, 03:39:48 pm »
If you contact Mr Sinden again make sure he produces a black gun, i hate the colored ones just because they are colored, now that sounds racist... but i want realism and black is also sleek looking...

That would be the death knell for his product.  A number of states have instituted strict color requirements for "toy guns", and a few sellers have even been prosecuted with huge fines for non-compliance.  Meanwhile, BB and Pellet pistols can look absolutely identical to a .45 or .357 magnum.   :dizzy:

opt2not

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2019, 03:55:24 pm »
If you contact Mr Sinden again make sure he produces a black gun, i hate the colored ones just because they are colored, now that sounds racist... but i want realism and black is also sleek looking...

That would be the death knell for his product.  A number of states have instituted strict color requirements for "toy guns", and a few sellers have even been prosecuted with huge fines for non-compliance.  Meanwhile, BB and Pellet pistols can look absolutely identical to a .45 or .357 magnum.   :dizzy:
But can BB and Pellet pistols be purchased by a minor?  Last I saw, those pistols are still locked up behind glass, or behind counters in most stores that sell them.

As much as I'd love to have a realistic looking light gun, I remember a traumatizing memory of when I was 15 and my friends and I were playing "guns" in the park. We had our toy guns that we spray painted black and looking pretty legit.  A police car was driving by and saw us with these guns, immediately stopped, the officer got out and drew his gun on us, yelling at us to drop our toy guns and get on the ground. 
We complied of course, pretty much shitting our pants at the time. After the officer "secured the scene", he looked at our toys and said to us "if you guys had raised these things when I was ordering you to drop them, I would have shot you".  I was 15!  I never played with realistic looking toy guns again.  :lol

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2019, 04:10:43 pm »
I have a pair of walther P99 replica wii guns purchased through amazon Germany.
Never got them working with my cab to my satisfaction.
They look cool, but feel chincy.


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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2019, 03:21:41 am »
Yeah its a legal nightmare the colour thing.
Though its not law over here most are now not black.

So I wouldn’t get your hopes up on that one but I would personally prefer black if a choice was given.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2019, 03:43:53 pm »
Yeah its a legal nightmare the colour thing.
Though its not law over here most are now not black.

So I wouldn’t get your hopes up on that one but I would personally prefer black if a choice was given.

The reason there hasn't been a decent megatron figure in years is because of this.  Even the masterpiece line, which is clearly for adults, is required to have orange tips glued in all the barrels. 

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2019, 05:18:14 am »
When i search lightguns in Google i see many black ones including Aimtrack, so it could be a possibility, who is realy going to check if a lightgun is black or red, and then issue fines..
Or they could advertise it differently find a loophole in the system, and sell it as replica's with usb cable  :D
Or they can sell it as a kit, with a little bottle of black car paint, or even Alclad chrome
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 05:29:58 am by TOMMYGUN »
When i build it they will come

TimeCrisis

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2019, 09:17:37 am »
if he focuses on full arcade recoil and turns it into a premium item in the £300+ range it would be good.

we should wait for the rasperri pi to emulate dreamcast and ps2 with mouse understanding so it works with the lightgun, if it works withuot the plugin hassle that would be great.

full support for 5:4 monitors with the pi should put it on the map for a dediated ligthgun arcade cabinet with some minor letterboxing, and can cover with bezel.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2019, 02:09:42 pm »
if he focuses on full arcade recoil and turns it into a premium item in the £300+ range it would be good.

No, no it wouldn't.   People are complaining that light gun solutions currently available are way too expensive.  If they ballooned to +300 virtually no one would buy them. 

opt2not

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2019, 02:33:57 pm »
we should wait for the rasperri pi to emulate dreamcast and ps2 with mouse understanding so it works with the lightgun, if it works withuot the plugin hassle that would be great.

full support for 5:4 monitors with the pi should put it on the map for a dediated ligthgun arcade cabinet with some minor letterboxing, and can cover with bezel.
FYI, the raspberry Pi is slowly being phased out of the emulation scene (thank goodness!). It's going to be superseded by more powerful FPGA solutions like the Mister, which is built for emulation first and foremost, rather than the Pi that was originally created as a cheap desktop computer solution.




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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2019, 03:19:38 pm »
But can BB and Pellet pistols be purchased by a minor?  Last I saw, those pistols are still locked up behind glass, or behind counters in most stores that sell them.

As much as I'd love to have a realistic looking light gun, I remember a traumatizing memory of when I was 15 and my friends and I were playing "guns" in the park. We had our toy guns that we spray painted black and looking pretty legit.  A police car was driving by and saw us with these guns, immediately stopped, the officer got out and drew his gun on us, yelling at us to drop our toy guns and get on the ground. 
We complied of course, pretty much shitting our pants at the time. After the officer "secured the scene", he looked at our toys and said to us "if you guys had raised these things when I was ordering you to drop them, I would have shot you".  I was 15!  I never played with realistic looking toy guns again.  :lol

Doing something like that in a park isn't very smart anyway, but if the color of a toy is all that stands between cops drawing on kids, there's a much larger problem.  Also, you might need to be 18 to purchase a BB gun, but most of them are purchased for minors.  I had one since I was 10.

It's not even a matter of not being a minor, though.  If it's a "toy" (i.e. not real gun (Pellet, BB or other), or "replica" for a collector) it has to be defaced.  That includes "toys" purchased by non-minors.

opt2not

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2019, 03:32:55 pm »
Doing something like that in a park isn't very smart anyway, but if the color of a toy is all that stands between cops drawing on kids, there's a much larger problem.  Also, you might need to be 18 to purchase a BB gun, but most of them are purchased for minors.  I had one since I was 10.

It's not even a matter of not being a minor, though.  If it's a "toy" (i.e. not real gun (Pellet, BB or other), or "replica" for a collector) it has to be defaced.  That includes "toys" purchased by non-minors.

Oh, totally, it was definitely not smart. But hey, we were dumb teens back then without a care in the world. Definitely learned our lesson. :lol

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #61 on: January 14, 2019, 04:08:41 pm »
if he focuses on full arcade recoil and turns it into a premium item in the £300+ range it would be good.

No, no it wouldn't.   People are complaining that light gun solutions currently available are way too expensive.  If they ballooned to +300 virtually no one would buy them.

^ truth.

lodoss118

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2019, 12:13:43 pm »
I disagree about the price being too expensive the aim traks with recoil x2 cost nearly £180, I have a usb2gun cost me (£320) and that thing was hard to setup and only works with happ guns, which I am not a fan off. I say if his product is easy to setup, and has extra features (already in case, recoil etc..), I am willing to pay around 200+ range for 2 guns :)

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2019, 09:47:55 am »
I disagree about the price being too expensive the aim traks with recoil x2 cost nearly £180, I have a usb2gun cost me (£320) and that thing was hard to setup and only works with happ guns, which I am not a fan off. I say if his product is easy to setup, and has extra features (already in case, recoil etc..), I am willing to pay around 200+ range for 2 guns :)

£200 for 2 guns would be fine.

But not £300 each!

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New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2019, 12:28:07 pm »
Titchgamer,

Could you ask Andy Sinden if he will consider retrofit kits for Aimtracks, I think it would be a smart move targeting an audience that are already light gun enthusiasts and have the equipment, it would be an easy sell in my opinion and he wouldn’t have to wait to manufacturer gun molds, packaging, etc.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 01:16:04 pm by Rockstead »

Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2019, 04:09:51 pm »
Titchgamer,

Could you ask Andy Sinden if he will consider retrofit kits for Aimtracks, I think it would be a smart move targeting an audience that are already light gun enthusiasts and have the equipment, it would be an easy sell in my opinion and he wouldn’t have to wait to manufacturer gun molds, packaging, etc.

Next time I get to talk to him I will ask for sure.

Must admit its something I never considered.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2019, 04:12:29 pm »
Titchgamer,

Could you ask Andy Sinden if he will consider retrofit kits for Aimtracks, I think it would be a smart move targeting an audience that are already light gun enthusiasts and have the equipment, it would be an easy sell in my opinion and he wouldn’t have to wait to manufacturer gun molds, packaging, etc.

Next time I get to talk to him I will ask for sure.

Must admit its something I never considered.

Cool, thanks.

Personally if I were him, that’s how I would test the waters before heavily investing.

Titchgamer

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #67 on: February 04, 2019, 04:07:42 am »
So Andy has released an official video with his updated prototype gun which I was previously not aloud to talk about :p



So as you will notice it now has weaver rails (for those who want to add red dots etc if you are into that sort of thing!)

He has also added a pump action switch and some side buttons.

I think there will be one more revision of this before he re-launches the kick starter which he plans to do in march I believe.

The gun itself is really comfy and well balanced my only real negative comment about it was the distance between the rear sights but that is one of the amendments he plans to make I think.


SammyWI

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #68 on: February 04, 2019, 07:32:13 pm »
Looking nice.  I see what you mean about the rear sight - that notch is gigantic!  I still want to pull it apart and make my own shell (or shells) for a more realistic trigger, etc.  But that looks nice enough that I'll want to keep one stock for easy use, friends, etc.  Cost permitting of course.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #69 on: February 05, 2019, 02:04:37 am »
Looking nice.  I see what you mean about the rear sight - that notch is gigantic!  I still want to pull it apart and make my own shell (or shells) for a more realistic trigger, etc.  But that looks nice enough that I'll want to keep one stock for easy use, friends, etc.  Cost permitting of course.

Yeah its pretty large lol
Still useable though, I also suggested he 2 toned the front and rear sight to make for better viewing.

But yeah its a really well designed and balanced gun otherwise.
Very comfy to hold and the pump action works really well.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2019, 03:32:54 am »
Looks good :)  :applaud:

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #71 on: February 05, 2019, 09:47:32 am »
I would definitely get rid of my Aimtraks for these. Seems like there is much less cursor lag, the elimination of the light bar is great too, no more calibration issues.

How far back do you have to be from the screen? That is the one thing I so miss with CRT light guns (and the only way I ever beat Gangster Town for the Sega Master System as a kid), you could be a few inches from the screen and they are still dead on.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2019, 10:30:43 am »
It looks promising, but the demos still seem like the gun is being handled in a somewhat "rigid" pose.  Maybe that's just his play style, but it kind of sends the message that performance will not be the same if the gun loses it's points of reference between shots, or if it's not held perfectly vertical.

The other thing I don't quite understand is why the necessity for the border.  There would be literally no difference between doing things this way, and placing an IR LED marker at somewhere close to each corner of the screen and storing a calibration value.  A line between two points of reference is still a line, whether or not it's visible to the player.  The only possible benefit would be the ability to track closer to the screen, if (and only if) the code was very adept at tracking a partiality of the reference, but at the distance it is being demoed, this doesn't seem to be the case?

Unless this gun is absolutely perfect (something of which I am a bit skeptical) the demos are showing some cherry-picked footage, which makes it difficult to truly assess it's real-world performance.  Demonstrated failures are often more telling than just the successes.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #73 on: February 05, 2019, 10:44:22 am »
Think I covered the hold and movement things above Randy.

As for the border well its easier applying a border to a window than it is to install LEDs etc which is one of the main disadvantages of all other solutions out there.
I suspect it is also used to help with the algorithm for working out the shot placement when you are stood at angles to the TV which again is a problem with existing solutions but that is only my assumption :p

We both know there is no such thing as perfect, Even the original CRT guns had their little problems and quirks but this is the nearest I have used to Arcade quality guns on a LCD.


As for the distance thing no you wont be able to get right up to the TV sorry :p

Basically it depends on the screen size how far back you need to be.
The camera needs to be able to see the border at all times to work properly so the bigger the screen the further back you will have to be.
Obviously 4:3 screens will have a advantage over 16:9 in that respect.


Mike A

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #74 on: February 05, 2019, 10:50:47 am »
I would take what titch says at face value. It looks like this guy has a viable light gun. Whether or not he can turn it into a viable product is a completely different subject.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #75 on: February 05, 2019, 10:54:46 am »
I would take what titch says at face value. It looks like this guy has a viable light gun. Whether or not he can turn it into a viable product is a completely different subject.

Yup, I really hope he manages to pull this off 2nd time round as I would love to get a pair of these!

I know he is intending to relaunch the KS in March and he has more exciting news coming out shortly that will seriously interest some people.

But I am again not aloud to speak about it so sorry about that!
But its worth the wait!!

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #76 on: February 05, 2019, 11:10:29 am »
There is usb power going to the thing, how about having very dim green leds in the sights like these phosphor sights.
When i build it they will come

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #77 on: February 05, 2019, 11:12:39 am »
There is usb power going to the thing, how about having very dim green leds in the sights like these phosphor sights.

Thats what I was thinking when I suggested it to him.

No idea if the LED’s would be plausible but pretty cool and doable.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #78 on: February 05, 2019, 11:18:29 am »
Just use glow in the dark paint. Or leave indents and people can paint the dots themselves. Simple. Cheap. Easy.

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Re: New Lightgun Testing - What would you like to see?
« Reply #79 on: February 05, 2019, 11:20:37 am »
Just use glow in the dark paint. Or leave indents and people can paint the dots themselves. Simple. Cheap. Easy.

Thats what I did on my paintball pistol!
Worked great haha