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Author Topic: Playstation Classic coming December 2018  (Read 2017 times)

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smass

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2018, 09:27:05 am »
I would impulse buy this at the $59 price point, at $100 I will wait a bit...

JDFan

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2018, 10:10:25 am »
I would impulse buy this at the $59 price point, at $100 I will wait a bit...

THat's pretty much the reason Nintendo did so well with the NES and then it continued with the SNES - the $59 price on the NES was perfect price point for an impulse buy or as a last minute xmas gift for co-worker, relative, child, friend -- then they followed it up the next year with a $79 model with a few improvements ( I personally think they could have done $65 and sold the second controller for $15 and sold even more of them since even more people would impulse buy it at $65 rather than $80 ) - Once you get to that $100 price point I think more people think of it as a larger purchase rather than an impulse buy ( but then again a lot of people were willing to pay the $200 price to the scalpers in the secondary market for the NES so who knows ! )

If it winds up being able to be Modded to add the games you really want instead of their list ( or if they get the list right) I'll probably wind up buying one but will wait and see if it is mod-able and ensure that they make them with decent quality controllers before making the purchase.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 10:16:02 am by JDFan »

Osirus23

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2018, 11:51:29 am »
Agree. $100 pushes it too far out of "stocking-stuffer" territory.

bigster

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2018, 02:43:42 pm »
I think we have to wait to see the games and video mode.  Without video filters, some games are going to look like bad polygon games.   They can find 20 that look good.  Mk trilogy might be a good one to include since it will look fine and has not been released in the mk arcade series.

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Locke141

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2018, 12:23:47 pm »
It's about the same price as a PSIO:dunno

I have a PSIO in the mail, an OSSC, and two original Play stations so I'll pass.

BTW, I'm currently playing FF7 on my iPhone.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 07:27:23 pm by Locke141 »

Haze

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2018, 12:43:02 pm »
Well yeah, one problem it faces is that most people acknowledge that early 3D has aged a lot worse than anything from the 2D era.

Even if you're upscaling and uprendering etc. it tends to look rather bad and that often gets combined with poor framerates.  Nobody quite knew how to do 3D controls back then either (look at the original Tomb Raider) so an awful lot of games have control setups that just feel awkward or alien to players today.

Outside of Japan it was also an era where we saw very few 2D games, due to policy (not wanting to look like the older 16-bit systems) or whatever else, so the selection of 2D games, which could have been of exceptional quality, is instead very limited too.

A lot of memorable titles were 3rd party, from studios that are no longer around or where the IP rights to those games are kinda in limbo, while others have already had HD remakes (Crash, Spryo soon) which means even the better 3D games of the era aren't that interesting anymore.  There's not even much nostalgic value in things like the original Gran Turismo outside of maybe the licensed soundtrack, and it tends to be the soundtrack that gets cut on these re-released systems.

So it will be kinda interesting to see the reception to this.  The bonafide timeless classics of things like the NES and SNES just don't exist in the same way.

The NES / SNES ones did set the bar really, really low in terms of quality of product, so maybe that's where Sony can win here.  The overall quality on the NES / SNES ones didn't matter so much to people, I'm guessing for similar reasons to why it's difficult to convince people of genuine improvements we make in MAME; most people are just playing them for 5-10 minutes at a time as a novelty / gimmick and don't appear to care that the versions they're using have glaring errors and are generally a bit garbage.  That style of gameplay is less suited to longer games, for which the Playstation was more known, so it's more important that the actual hardware (and emulation) is of a better quality.  That might explain the higher price point.

With the PS2 library instead there's a massive collection of games that still hold up pretty well as there was just about the right balance of system power and creativity to actually pull off high quality games in 3D, but as we've seen, emulation of the PS2 is notoriously difficult, there are problems with the emulators on the PC, so short of relaunching the original hardware there (much as was in the first gen PS3s) I guess we're not going to see a PS2 mini any time soon.  I was playing the original Tak game on an actual PS2 earlier this week and it holds up so well it puts almost my entire PS3/4 collection to shame.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 12:53:04 pm by Haze »

Grasshopper

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2018, 03:22:59 pm »
... one problem it faces is that most people acknowledge that early 3D has aged a lot worse than anything from the 2D era.

That's my main concern as well, although the high price would come a very close second.

If Sony opts to emulate the games in a conventional manner, then I'll probably pass. I can't really justify paying £90 when I can achieve a similar result on my Raspberry Pi, or play newer better versions of the same games on my PC.

However, as Sony owns the source code, they do have the option of porting the games instead. It wouldn't be that difficult. By the time we get to the PS1, most games are being written in C/C++, with only a little assembler for the speed critical parts of the code.

If they've chosen to port the games, then they could, in principle, provide an option to play the games in a graphically enhanced mode with a higher resolution, better frame rate, more detailed texturing, etc.  If they've done that (and I'll admit it's a pretty big if) then the console might just be worth the £90 they're charging for it.
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Mike A

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2018, 03:53:44 pm »
They are not going to port the games. That would cost more money. 95 percent of the people buying these things are not going to care at all about enhanced graphics or better frame rate.

Hell, most of the people on this forum don't even care that much about playability. They shove the cheapest controls they can find into a pre-fab bartop. They top it off with a Pi running an old version of MAME, and a cheap LCD monitor. What does that tell you about how much the general public will care?

Locke141

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2018, 07:30:43 pm »
Well yeah, one problem it faces is that most people acknowledge that early 3D has aged a lot worse than anything from the 2D era.

I loved my original playstation and the nostalgia is the big hug. The Saturn holds up way better with all it's 2D gems.

jdbailey1206

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2018, 08:34:45 am »
To be fair I think Sony is trying to stay true to what the Playstation was when it was first released in December of '94.  When the Playstation came out it only had directional pads.  Sony did not put out an analog controller and a dual shock analog controller until April '97 and December '97 respectively. 

In my opinion it would be nice to see these gaming companies stop spending money on re-releasing miniatures of discontinued gaming consoles that can be picked up on fleabay for next to nothing and work more on backwards capabilities or re-releasing old games on their next gen consoles much like Nintendo has done with Nintendo Switch Online.  But releasing these miniature consoles is how they make money.  Just my opinion.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 08:43:02 am by jdbailey1206 »

Malenko

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2018, 09:59:32 am »
You can buy what you want man, I just can't think of anyone that actually liked the design of the psx gamepad over better digital pad designs like the Snes or Saturn and getting a usb gamepad shaped like a psx gamepad is already fairly easy to come by so I don't understand the appeal. 


I realize I'm being pretty hard on this thing, but it's $100, which is decidedly above the impulse buy price point imho and really pretty steep considering they were too cheap to include dual shocks and a power adapter.  I'll complain less if/when they lower the price.

My SNES Classic already plays almost all the PSX games I wanna play. Some like SotN cant be played without either using a different controller or remapping buttons on demand. I like the PSX controller over the Saturn one. 

$100 isn't that much higher than the $80 MiniSNES price point. I can understand the higher cost if they have to have more storage for the CD based games and licensing fees for 3rd party games (that's where the SNES has the advantage , so many great 1st party titles). The game list will determine if I pick one up or not.


Final Fantasy VII, Tekken 3, R4: Ridge Racer Type 4, Jumping Flash! and Wild Arms have all been confirmed.
So let's speculate what else is going to be on there!

Street Fighter Alpha (hopefully SFA3)
Mortal Kombat Trilogy (dunno if its going to be a one or the other with capcom/midway)
Jet Moto
Twisted Metal (probably TM2)
Ace Combat (Probably 3)
Battle Arena Toshinden
Syphon Filter
Destruction Derby
Crash Bandicoot
Cool Borders
Gran Turismo
Spyro the Dragon
Tony Hawk (prefer 2 or 3)
Symphony of the Night

My want but not likely list is:
Tenchu
Einhander
Final Fantasy Tactics
R Type Delta
Legacy of Kain
Metal Gear Solid
Suikoden
Super Puzzle Fighter X Turbo

Dont want:
WipeOut
Resident Evil
Dead or Alive
Tomb Raider


As for backward compatibility, Sony was the real leader with that back in the day. You can play PSX games natively on both PS2 and PS3. PS3s at first could play PS2 games but Sony killed that to save money.Dunno why they stopped backward compatibility with the PS4. Microsoft did a commendable job getting 360 games running on the XB1.  Nintendo defintiely did well with selling emulated games, especially for non nintendo systems.
No matter one's station in life, the Dance of Death unites us all.

jdbailey1206

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2018, 11:11:45 am »
Dont want:
Resident Evil
Tomb Raider



JK.  This is why these consoles need to have game customization.  You are pigeon holed into paying for 18 games when you only want two. 

If I had to choose what games came on mine it would have to be the following:

Grand Theft Auto II

Tomb Raider

Dark Forces

Crash Bandicoot

Nightmare Creatures

Odd World

Parappa The Rapper

RE1

RE2

Ridge Racer

Evil Dead Hail to the King

SNAAKE

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2018, 11:44:57 am »
might get it..just for the shell lol

sega would make a killing if they released dreamcast mini with 1080p or something

nitrogen_widget

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2018, 09:26:37 pm »
I would impulse buy this at the $59 price point, at $100 I will wait a bit...

THat's pretty much the reason Nintendo did so well with the NES and then it continued with the SNES - the $59 price on the NES was perfect price point for an impulse buy or as a last minute xmas gift for co-worker, relative, child, friend -- then they followed it up the next year with a $79 model with a few improvements ( I personally think they could have done $65 and sold the second controller for $15 and sold even more of them since even more people would impulse buy it at $65 rather than $80 ) - Once you get to that $100 price point I think more people think of it as a larger purchase rather than an impulse buy ( but then again a lot of people were willing to pay the $200 price to the scalpers in the secondary market for the NES so who knows ! )

If it winds up being able to be Modded to add the games you really want instead of their list ( or if they get the list right) I'll probably wind up buying one but will wait and see if it is mod-able and ensure that they make them with decent quality controllers before making the purchase.

since it is most likely an arm board with an emulator i'm guessing someone will figure out a way to add more games.
Probably need extra storage though.
PSONE images are a bit larger than SNES roms.

nitrogen_widget

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2018, 09:49:14 pm »
playing with psone emulator on my core2duo and yeah i gotta use some scaling to make the games not look horrible on an LCD.



Osirus23

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2018, 10:51:33 am »
Teh gaemes:

Battle Arena Toshinden
Cool Boarders 2
Destruction Derby
Final Fantasy VII
Grand Theft Auto
Intelligent Qube
Jumping Flash
Metal Gear Solid
Mr Driller
Oddworld: Abe’s Oddysee
Rayman
Resident Evil Director’s Cut
Revelations: Persona
Ridge Racer Type 4
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Syphon Filter
Tekken 3
Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six
Twisted Metal
Wild Arms

https://blog.us.playstation.com/2018/10/29/announcing-playstation-classics-full-lineup-of-20-games/

pbj

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2018, 11:01:49 am »
That's a solid list.

Malenko

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2018, 11:18:39 am »
Teh gaemes:

Battle Arena Toshinden
Cool Boarders 2
Destruction Derby
Final Fantasy VII
Grand Theft Auto
Intelligent Qube
Jumping Flash
Metal Gear Solid
Mr Driller
Oddworld: Abe’s Oddysee
Rayman
Resident Evil Director’s Cut
Revelations: Persona
Ridge Racer Type 4
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Syphon Filter
Tekken 3
Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six
Twisted Metal
Wild Arms

For the most part, NAILED IT guessed 8 games our of the remaining 16.
Shocked there's no Ace Combat, Tomb Raider, or WipeOut games. Inelligence Qube is not demanding and takes up 3MBs so I should have guessed that one.

No matter one's station in life, the Dance of Death unites us all.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #58 on: October 29, 2018, 01:25:31 pm »
I dunno, I don't think they did.  For a few of the games in the list, there were sequels also released on the psx that were far superior to the original.  Twisted Metal comes to mind as the first game is just awful.  Then again there are only four games on the whole list I actually like, so maybe I'm not the one to say.  It really needs more fighters and survival horror though.

opt2not

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2018, 02:22:24 pm »
Teh gaemes:

Battle Arena Toshinden
Cool Boarders 2
Destruction Derby
Final Fantasy VII
Grand Theft Auto
Intelligent Qube
Jumping Flash
Metal Gear Solid
Mr Driller
Oddworld: Abe’s Oddysee
Rayman
Resident Evil Director’s Cut
Revelations: Persona
Ridge Racer Type 4
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Syphon Filter
Tekken 3
Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six
Twisted Metal
Wild Arms

https://blog.us.playstation.com/2018/10/29/announcing-playstation-classics-full-lineup-of-20-games/

I dig this list.  I hope they're using the dialogue from the PC version for FFVII, rather than the original PSX release.

opt2not

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pbj

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2018, 04:11:04 pm »
"The magazines said to buy it" is 100% dead on.  Nobody actually liked Battle Arena Toshinden.


Howard_Casto

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2018, 07:12:36 pm »
It is pretty bad... it's like tekken 3, only more terrible in every aspect. 

Malenko

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2018, 07:17:44 pm »
I dunno, I don't think they did.

I meant I nailed it , not they nailed it.
No matter one's station in life, the Dance of Death unites us all.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2018, 10:03:16 pm »
Ahh ok.  I pretty much expected Tomb Raider and Crash to be absent btw, because those franchises are actually still viable and I get the feeling that Sony is too cheap to put any real money into this thing.... I mean they couldn't even include dual shocks.  That might be the same reason that the better Capcom games aren't included as well. 

jdbailey1206

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2018, 08:48:44 am »
To be fair I think Sony is trying to stay true to what the Playstation was when it was first released in December of '94.  When the Playstation came out it only had directional pads.  Sony did not put out an analog controller and a dual shock analog controller until April '97 and December '97 respectively. 
:stupid

I must be on Howards block list.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2018, 02:55:09 pm »
Your not on my block list, I just ignore hem haw excuses for a company being cheap.  They barely changed their controller designs prior to the ps4, so they probably have a warehouse full of the parts somewhere... they'd just have to remake/reissue the shell.  If you want to stay true to what the psx was in 94 then you'd only include launch titles. 

I would be fine with it except for the fact that the psx had some great racing titles that can't be played properly without a dual shock.  To respond further the snes classic was 80 bucks, but it came with an unreleased game.  That's worth about 10 bucks to me and I think that is reasonable...… Therefore 70 bucks is really the limit unless you decide to include something new. 


If you don't feel that way that's cool, but I don't see how quoting a post I already read is going to change anything.  I still think they are cheaping out and I'll continue to respond to that effect. 


Maybe when they actually show the thing in action my mind will change... it certainly did with the nes/snes classic.  Will it be god awful like the atgames interfaces, decent like the neogeo mini, or great like the Nintendo ones.  That makes a big difference. 

Osirus23

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2018, 05:34:57 pm »
The dual shock was a ---smurfy--- design and I'm glad we're finally getting the original PSX controllers in production again to play original PSX games.

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2018, 10:39:02 pm »
Oh don't get me wrong, I hate the dual shocks as well... it's the main reason I've been team xbox all of these years, but by the time the psx's lifespan was underway everybody had them.  To me no dual shocks with the psx is like no 6 button controllers with the genesis... yes there are tons of three button only games, but you are screwed if you like fighters.  Similarly you are screwed on the psx if you like racers. 

pbj

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2018, 10:18:08 am »
I think they knocked it out of the park with the Dual Shock 4s.  I'm not crazy about previous iterations.

 :dunno

nitrogen_widget

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2018, 11:03:41 am »
It's about the same price as a PSIO:dunno

I have a PSIO in the mail, an OSSC, and two original Play stations so I'll pass.

BTW, I'm currently playing FF7 on my iPhone.

That's an option.
Twice as expensive but probably look better all around.
I have CRT's though so don't need a scaler.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 11:06:41 am by nitrogen_widget »

pbj

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2018, 11:09:39 am »
Looking at those PSIOs... I swear something similar existed 20 years ago.  Maybe you rigged it to the parallel port on your PC?  Or maybe it was just for ripping games....




Osirus23

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2018, 02:15:32 pm »
I think they knocked it out of the park with the Dual Shock 4s.  I'm not crazy about previous iterations.

 :dunno

The DS4s aren't bad. I can actually hold them in my hands comfortably.

With the previous 3 DualShocks the edge of the analog stick housing would dig into the sides of my middle fingers since the analog sticks were literally tacked on to an existing design as an afterthought.

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #73 on: October 31, 2018, 07:47:17 pm »
Looking at those PSIOs... I swear something similar existed 20 years ago.  Maybe you rigged it to the parallel port on your PC?  Or maybe it was just for ripping games....

Yeah that's a parallel port on the first iterations of the psx so I'm sure they did some crazy things with it back in the day.  I know there were game sharks and Gameboy adapters that used it. 

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #74 on: November 10, 2018, 10:15:18 pm »
So some of the game news outlets are getting their hands on the psx classic and the reviews are not great.  No music or clever theming of the menu.  No screen filters or bezels.  There's inexplicably a mix of US and UK roms on the console and worst of all, only a single save slot per game.  Also Sony didn't even bother to make an in-house emulator and opted to use an open source emulator you can get on the pc. 

So yeah guys, my fears were correct in that Sony cheaped out on this one and did the bare minimum.  I mean it's not atgames bad, the emulation appears to be good, but you literally get nothing else.  If it were priced at $60 I wouldn't complain that much but it's frikkin $100. 

Osirus23

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #75 on: November 10, 2018, 10:21:17 pm »
That's some ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that they used an "off the shelf" emulator instead of making their own, especially since Sony has already done PSX emulation for their other platforms. Makes me think they really did farm this out to some other manufacturer.

bigster

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #76 on: November 11, 2018, 06:41:12 am »
After reading the article and game list, I have no reason to doubt that this thing will be half off in a year or so.

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #77 on: November 11, 2018, 07:53:54 am »
It's not worth anything close to $100 IMHO. But the key for me will be how easy it is to mod.

I'm guessing that it probably uses a slightly beefier SOC than the NES/SNES classics. It also uses standard USB ports for the controllers which is another advantage over the NES/SNES classics.

So, if it's easy to mod, and eventually gets significantly discounted, I might pick one up.
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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #78 on: November 11, 2018, 01:52:20 pm »
It's not worth anything close to $100 IMHO. But the key for me will be how easy it is to mod.

I'm guessing that it probably uses a slightly beefier SOC than the NES/SNES classics.


Actually the Nes/Snes classics emulate psx games just fine, so my guess is it's the exact same chip. 

Grasshopper

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Re: Playstation Classic coming December 2018
« Reply #79 on: November 11, 2018, 03:04:54 pm »
Actually the Nes/Snes classics emulate psx games just fine, so my guess is it's the exact same chip.

Well I kind of hoped that Sony might care a bit about their reputation and choose a SOC with significant headroom so that the emulation is rock solid. But then again, they've already cheaped out in using an open source emulator, so maybe not.
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