Switchable Circle-4Way Joystick Gate: Does It Exist?

[edgeofblade]

I've been evaluating joysticks for a few weeks, trying to find exactly what I want. I found most joysticks with 8-way/4-way capability rely on a square gate to get the best of both worlds. But I hate a square gate on an 8-way. I hate the way it slides off the cardinal directions to diagonals too easily.

I've started to prototype a hybrid gate design that is circular but can be rotated to 4-way by means of a six-piece gate assembly. It's being worked up in Sketchup right now so I can send it off to 3D print. An inner disk provides the circle gate, but rotation swings four pieces into place to restrict the stick to 4-way. Illustration attached; P is the pivot point for one of the restrictor pieces, position 1 shows swinging in for 4-way restriction, position 2 shows swinging out for circle restriction.

Is there a better solution rather than fabricating a brand new gate? Has anyone successfully solved this conundrum with an octagonal gate, for example? Any other ideas?

[pixel]

 Maybe you should actually get an Original Joystick.  One from each type...  and test them per the games they each were designed for.
Only then... will you actually have the knowledge and understanding of the reasons why each design... ended up as it did.

 Why each design... was suited to a particular type of game.

 How   "One Size fits All".   is never really valid..   when it comes to having the best control, comfort, and performance.


 Its only then... that you will realize that you are more than likely... wasting your own time and energy.

 Pride, Ego, and Willful ignorance... will just drain your time and money.
There are good reasons for long established designs.  Reasons that are rarely.. if ever... improved upon.


 Physics never Ages.

[Mike A]

. Physics never Ages

That's what Isaac Newton thought.

[edgeofblade]

 Maybe you should actually get an Original Joystick.  One from each type...  and test them per the games they each were designed for.
Only then... will you actually have the knowledge and understanding of the reasons why each design... ended up as it did.

 Why each design... was suited to a particular type of game.

 How   "One Size fits All".   is never really valid..   when it comes to having the best control, comfort, and performance.


 Its only then... that you will realize that you are more than likely... wasting your own time and energy.

 Pride, Ego, and Willful ignorance... will just drain your time and money.
There are good reasons for long established designs.  Reasons that are rarely.. if ever... improved upon.


 Physics never Ages.

I have so many questions, oh sage one.

* I... don't... understand... your... use... of... ellipses... for... emphasis. Am I supposed to read that like a poem? What meter should I adhere to upon recitation?
* Does it help to put on a Confucian beard and read it while floating, cross-legged in the air?
* Are you being tortured, and does your punctuation signal repeated blows to your abdomen?
* You do suffer from an symbolic form of Tourettes?
* Do you fancy yourself Messianic and are delivering a spiritual parable, replete with sweeping open palm motions?
* Did the generous gifts and beneficent wants of "The Universe" inform your response?

* Are you going to answer anything I actually wrote in my original post or merely belittle my attempt to design something new that doesn't exist yet and meets my specific needs?

[BadMouth]

Suzo 500 did something similar for 2-way mode.  (you had to loosen screws, move the arms and screw them back down though)


I think having half a diamond slide in from each side would work better.

My cab uses Toodles Spark CE Optical JLF switches with a circular restrictor.
I removed the sensetivity potentiometer and wired those connections to a homemade board that switches between two different potentiometers depending on whether an 8 way or 4 way game is launched.
The corners won't register on the lower sensetivity setting.  (it basically just makes the IR LEDs dimmer)
So it is has 4-way switching, but the same round gate for both.

U360s with software switching would be about the same I guess.

[Mike A]

I built a bar top for a guy with two 8 ways. His kids love it, but he wasn't satisfied with playing 4 way games with the 8 way sticks. I built him a fight stick type box with a leaf switch 4 way stick and 3 leaf switch buttons. It plugs into the back of the bar top with an ethernet cable. He loves the setup. All he has to do is plug in his stick when he wants to play games his way. There are no software changes, and no restrictor changes. I know this isn't for everyone, but it might be worth considering.

Swappable control panels is another way to go. Use the 8 ways you want on one panel and the 4 way you want on another panel. Then there are no compromises.

[edgeofblade]

Wonderful comments guys. Thank you!

Suzo 500 did something similar for 2-way mode.  (you had to loosen screws, move the arms and screw them back down though)


I think having half a diamond slide in from each side would work better.

My cab uses Toodles Spark CE Optical JLF switches with a circular restrictor.
I removed the sensetivity potentiometer and wired those connections to a homemade board that switches between two different potentiometers depending on whether an 8 way or 4 way game is launched.
The corners won't register on the lower sensetivity setting.  (it basically just makes the IR LEDs dimmer)
So it is has 4-way switching, but the same round gate for both.

U360s with software switching would be about the same I guess.

That image is almost exactly what I'm talking about. THANK YOU so much for putting me on the right track. Might adapt this design with springs on the screws in the style of the Servostik. Oh yeah, I didn't mention my end goal is to be switchable from the top panel, hopefully with a custom servo setup.

I built a bar top for a guy with two 8 ways. His kids love it, but he wasn't satisfied with playing 4 way games with the 8 way sticks. I built him a fight stick type box with a leaf switch 4 way stick and 3 leaf switch buttons. It plugs into the back of the bar top with an ethernet cable. He loves the setup. All he has to do is plug in his stick when he wants to play games his way. There are no software changes, and no restrictor changes. I know this isn't for everyone, but it might be worth considering.

Swappable control panels is another way to go. Use the 8 ways you want on one panel and the 4 way you want on another panel. Then there are no compromises.

That's certainly a fair approach. I've even seen panels with an third alternative four-way stick, too.

[Mike A]

I hope you can make it work the way you want it to.

[Nephasth]

Octagonal gates on U360s.

[Titchgamer]

Personally I think the best solution would be a octagonal  gate with a restrictive square gate to make it 4 way.

Kind of hard to explain but if you imagine 4 pieces of angled plastic spring loaded and with a corner pivot so when in 8 way they are out of the way of the main gate.

But when the gate is turned 90 degrees something would push them inwards forming a square gate over the octagonal.

I have thought this over a few times in the past but I dont have the fabrication skills to build it.
But it would work in my mind lol

[edgeofblade]

Octagonal gates on U360s.

Thanks for the input. I'm seriously considering.

Personally I think the best solution would be a octagonal  gate with a restrictive square gate to make it 4 way.

Kind of hard to explain but if you imagine 4 pieces of angled plastic spring loaded and with a corner pivot so when in 8 way they are out of the way of the main gate.

But when the gate is turned 90 degrees something would push them inwards forming a square gate over the octagonal.

I have thought this over a few times in the past but I dont have the fabrication skills to build it.
But it would work in my mind lol

Neither do I, but I'm not letting that stop me. If you're curious, I've spent some time mucking about with SketchUp, my favorite 3D modeling software, and Shapeways, prefered vendor for 3D printing outsourcing. Export in STL and upload. I'll just order a few example parts, measure them with my digital calipers, and model a few new parts that can transform, hopefully with a small sservo. Certainly not easy because it's mechanical details that I can't get my head around.

If you can, give modeling and printing a try. I won't say it's easy, but it has certainly pushed me out of my comfort zone.

[pixel]

 Maybe you should actually get an Original Joystick.  One from each type...  and test them per the games they each were designed for.
Only then... will you actually have the knowledge and understanding of the reasons why each design... ended up as it did.

 Why each design... was suited to a particular type of game.

 How   "One Size fits All".   is never really valid..   when it comes to having the best control, comfort, and performance.


 Its only then... that you will realize that you are more than likely... wasting your own time and energy.

 Pride, Ego, and Willful ignorance... will just drain your time and money.
There are good reasons for long established designs.  Reasons that are rarely.. if ever... improved upon.


 Physics never Ages.

I have so many questions, oh sage one.

* I... don't... understand... your... use... of... ellipses... for... emphasis. Am I supposed to read that like a poem? What meter should I adhere to upon recitation?
* Does it help to put on a Confucian beard and read it while floating, cross-legged in the air?
* Are you being tortured, and does your punctuation signal repeated blows to your abdomen?
* You do suffer from an symbolic form of Tourettes?
* Do you fancy yourself Messianic and are delivering a spiritual parable, replete with sweeping open palm motions?
* Did the generous gifts and beneficent wants of "The Universe" inform your response?

* Are you going to answer anything I actually wrote in my original post or merely belittle my attempt to design something new that doesn't exist yet and meets my specific needs?

 I gave you some of the best advice, that I have learned over many years of the same sort of attitude. 

 It costed me time and money.
 It produced failed / inferior results.

 If you wish to take that as Offensive... or read it with an assumed attitude, then that is all upon you.


 Easiest example would be my initial distaste for Leaf Switch Buttons and Joysticks.

 Until I learned how to "Feather" a leaf button  (rather than bottoming it out),   and learned the benefits
of a leaf stick  (most especially in Robotron, and many other classics)... I would not have even considered
to put such controls on anything that I built.

 When I finally got to play a decent Robotron,  as well as started messing with leaf buttons...
then I finally understood what I was totally missing.   How all of my Intellectual ideas and assumptions
about these controllers / controller designs... were totally wrong / misguided / inept.

 Sometimes its not just about the hardware either.  Sometimes... you need to play a certain way,  and or a
certain game / game-type...  to understand the complete picture.

 What sealed the deal on Leaf buttons... was trying to play Halleys Comet.  Its nearly impossible to
fire at the Rapid-Fire rate, to be able to get the most powerups.  Microswitches were just too fatiguing
to even last a few minutes at such a fire-rate.   Leaf buttons made it easy as pie.. to maintain a Far
faster fire rate... with pretty much no fatigue at all.


 Anyway... best of luck on your design, regardless.

[opt2not]

It costed me time and money.
 It produced failed / inferior results.

Maybe he's smarter and more capable than you.  Did you consider that?
The wright brothers were considered crazy-men for trying to make fixed-wing powered flight possible, and went through various failed prototypes till they got it "wright" ( ).

[BadMouth]

I'm surprised some machinist hasn't turned up on here and built a crazy sturdy switching joystick that would be cost prohibitive to manufacture, but very cool to make for themselves.

I'm also surprised nobody has done a 3D printed analog joystick base that uses a sanwa shaft and balltop.
(Seimitsu LS-64 knockoff)
I tinkered with it, but my skill is tinkercad level and I had too many other projects that were more necessity than hobby.
The first tripping point I hit was that the pivot point for the gears/guides need to be on the same plane as the pivot point of the joystick.
My prototype was not (because I was trying to use the original Sanwa base) and as a result the opening on the yokes could either be sloppy or bind because the stick was at an angle to it when moved all the way on the opposite axis.  Thinner guides could alleviate it, but probably wouldn't fix it completely.
Some old PC sticks actually used slide pots and flat yokes on a flat plane.  I'm not sure how they got around the angle issue.  Maybe they were just sloppy.

[opt2not]

I'm also surprised nobody has done a 3D printed analog joystick base that uses a sanwa shaft and balltop.

Is this something along those lines?
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/controls/levers/levers-paradise-arcade/2206_magenta-analog-to-digital-programmable-joystick

[BadMouth]

I'm also surprised nobody has done a 3D printed analog joystick base that uses a sanwa shaft and balltop.

Is this something along those lines?
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/controls/levers/levers-paradise-arcade/2206_magenta-analog-to-digital-programmable-joystick

At first I thought "Awesome!", then I started reading and I don't see where it can be used as an analog joystick.
I could be mistaken, but it looks like it converts the hall effect sensors output to standard digital signals.
The shtick is that the digital outputs are adjustable and customizeable.

EDIT: basically customizable sensitivity, but at the level of being able to make different areas more sensitive than others in order to pull off special moves in fighting games.

[opt2not]

Yeah I didn't fully read what it does. I saw analog and thought, oh neat!  But then the price scared me away. Yikes!

[edgeofblade]

Octagonal gates on U360s.

Update: Finally had time to execute on this thought.

Finally combined your octagonal backside gate suggestion with Andy's front-panel restrictors designed for U360s. Not only does it let me play with octagonal 8-way, but it surprisingly preserves the square 8 and 4 way experience of the front kit while adding mild detents to the square. Also... and this is a big one... it softens the impact on the square gate sectors you stick in the shaft to select 8/4-square. I always feel like I'm going to break this plastic.

I love the feel of this setup and will start rolling it out to my other sticks.

At first I thought "Awesome!", then I started reading and I don't see where it can be used as an analog joystick.
I could be mistaken, but it looks like it converts the hall effect sensors output to standard digital signals.
The shtick is that the digital outputs are adjustable and customizeable.

EDIT: basically customizable sensitivity, but at the level of being able to make different areas more sensitive than others in order to pull off special moves in fighting games.

This is basically what I'm doing with U360's. Get the wiring harness or crimp your own and you can map these into your preexisting digital signals. I've got scripts for 4-way and 8-way and I've already done some of my own customization of the 4-way scheme to reduce missed or inaccurate inputs. Long live sticky cell heuristics!

[Titchgamer]

Sounds interesting, Get some pics etc up

[Mike A]

I am glad you found something that works for you.

[Mr. Peabody]

Fascinating. Must see more.

Octagonal gates on U360s.

Pretty much, though round can work well. It mostly depends on the map, scale factor, and the centering of the stick. Not using a grid would transcend the whole bit, hence the Magenta.