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Author Topic: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?  (Read 752 times)

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porkins

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Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« on: September 01, 2018, 11:09:32 am »
I just finished getting CRT Emudriver installed and working. I installed Groovymame, generated and installed modes, and everything is working fine.

BUT, various arcade games in MAME are either cut-off at the top and bottom (too large), OR they do not fill the screen. Is there a workaround for this? Maybe limit the resolutions used? I know the bad option would probably be to stretch/shrink the image in MAME options, but then I don't get correct resolutions. If it still looks really good, I probably wouldn't mind.

Also, I've been trying to run Emulation Station and Retroarch. When I run either of those, the image is doubled, one on the left, and one on the right. What settings do I need to use to get those displayed properly?

Thank you!

Zebidee

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2018, 06:11:50 pm »
I just finished getting CRT Emudriver installed and working. I installed Groovymame, generated and installed modes, and everything is working fine.

Have you tried using Arcade OSD to test the new modes?

Quote
BUT, various arcade games in MAME are either cut-off at the top and bottom (too large), OR they do not fill the screen. Is there a workaround for this? Maybe limit the resolutions used? I know the bad option would probably be to stretch/shrink the image in MAME options, but then I don't get correct resolutions. If it still looks really good, I probably wouldn't mind.

Many games will show with black areas to the sides. Any vertical game on a horizontal monitor will look like this. This is to preserve the proper aspect ratio for the games. Mostly, they would look terrible without it. Some other non-vertical horizontal games will also show black areas, mostly to the sides top/bottom, for similar reasons. Learn to love the black and you'll be fine.

You can also adjust the geometry of your arcade monitor using pots, so do that with a test image/program/game/video mode that fills the screen and adjust until you are happy. If you used your monitor for a single game, then you'd adjust to that. But because we usually like to play lots of games, you'll need to find some sort of compromise (ie black parts on screen).

Quote
Also, I've been trying to run Emulation Station and Retroarch. When I run either of those, the image is doubled, one on the left, and one on the right. What settings do I need to use to get those displayed properly?

I don't know those emulators, but a doubled image means the games are running at 31khz. Which suggests something is not going right with CRT_emudriver or it's interaction with the emulators. Check your video modes with Arcade OSD.

Finally, you can use VMMaker to re-make your video modes. Adjust the front/back porch settings in your monitor specs
to account for the bits that get cut off top/bottom. You can also use Arcade OSD for this purpose, but do it through VMMaker first then use Arcade OSD to fine-tune your video modes.

*Edited for clarity
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 10:09:37 am by Zebidee »
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porkins

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2018, 08:37:19 pm »
I used my pots to resize the picture so that the Windows desktop fits just right. I have a horizontal monitor.
I tried 1942, and the top and bottom are cut off. Looks good, but too big vertically.
Then I tried Rastan, and there was too much black on the top an bottom. Looked great overall. Looked to fit nicely horizontally. I adjusted my pots to stretch it out a little to fit properly.
Then I tried Golden Axe, and it was cut off a bit vertically.

So does everyone set their H. Size so that everything fits, but then some games do not fill vertically?

I am not familiar with the porch settings, or how to properly adjust those.

As for Emulation Station, it is just a Front-End. So just a Windows program that runs full screen. I will want to run other Windows programs full screen, such as Streets of Rage Remake, so I need to figure out how to force 15kHz.

I will mess around with the Arcade OSD and modes.

krick

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2018, 09:52:58 pm »
I have the horizontal size pot on my monitor adjusted so that vertical games fit on my horizontal monitor without being cut off on the top and bottom.

This has the side effect that horizontal games are slightly letterboxed but I barely notice it while playing.  I think it's a reasonable trade-off to be able to play both horizontal and vertical games on the same monitor.

If I wasn't so lazy, I'd wire up a single remote pot that I could adjust more easily while standing in front of the cabinet.  Or, even better, I could probably dig out my multimeter and figure out the resistance value between the horizontal and vertical pot settings and wire up a resistor and a toggle switch to flip between the horizontal setting and the vertical setting.  I'd probably mount the toggle switch inside the coin door for easy access.

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Sledge

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2018, 11:20:06 pm »
I drilled a small hole in the monitor surround and have a small screw driver going through that (looks like a small knob) into the V-size pot so that when it's running a 288 line game i can easily resize the screen to show it all.
When it's running a lower res game i can increase the size again etc..
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 07:25:18 pm by Sledge »

Paradroid

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2018, 02:05:23 am »
BUT, various arcade games in MAME are either cut-off at the top and bottom (too large), OR they do not fill the screen. Is there a workaround for this?

This is the reality of CRTs: you can't simply squeeze in more vertical lines.

It helps to know that the vast majority of arcade games have 224 visible lines. Next largest group is 240 lines and then 256 lines. There are a bunch of other oddballs but they're the biggest groups.

Whatever you do will involve compromise (e.g. adjusting for 224 and missing lines for 240 and 256 or adjusting for 256 and have black borders for 240 and 224).

As the others mentioned, the ultimate solution is an easy to reach vertical size control. I recently put together a cab with a recessed controlled above the marquee. Works really well: just reach up and twist the knob to resize the screen.

Of course, you can do nasty things like stretch the image to a fixed resolution but then you lose the "native" look.
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porkins

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2018, 11:00:29 am »
If I run Arcade OSD, all modes look great. If I edit 640x480 60i and set interlaced to No, the image doubles like I am seeing with Emulation Station. So I figure those programs are using non interlaced? How can I force these Windows full screen programs to use different options?

SteelRush

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2018, 02:48:02 pm »
If I run Arcade OSD, all modes look great. If I edit 640x480 60i and set interlaced to No, the image doubles like I am seeing with Emulation Station. So I figure those programs are using non interlaced? How can I force these Windows full screen programs to use different options?

If you set interlaced to no on 640x480, it will only work on a TV or monitor that supports 480p.  The vast majority besides later VGA models of arcade monitors did not.  Some consumer TVs did, but most did not.

porkins

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2018, 04:30:16 pm »
I verified using ArcadeOSD that the programs are forcing it to run at 640x480 60p. MY desktop normally runs at 60i. How can I force 60i, or how do I remove the 60p option?

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2018, 04:37:09 pm »
I verified using ArcadeOSD that the programs are forcing it to run at 640x480 60p. MY desktop normally runs at 60i. How can I force 60i, or how do I remove the 60p option?

What monitor option did you choose in vmmaker, and what is your monitor?

porkins

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2018, 05:21:29 pm »
I chose Arcade 15KHz. I have a Wells Gardner. Was running Golden Axe in a cab converted from something else. Its a K7000 series.

porkins

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2018, 05:28:02 pm »
....And I'm running it through a JPac.

SteelRush

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2018, 05:33:31 pm »
Make sure you donít have a user mode adding 480p.  Since it is a K7000, change the monitor profile to it, update your EDID if you are running a newer card, and regenerate your video modes, and see if that helps.

porkins

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2018, 06:38:15 pm »
I used the default/built-in super modes ini file that came with the CRT Emudriver. I will try what you suggested.

Can anybody link to something that explains how to create different modes? I am running almost 700 MAME roms, plus RetroArch, and want it all to look nice (original is best), but I don't mind a breaking away from original a bit if it still looks nice.

buttersoft

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2018, 08:23:14 pm »
VMM generates modes based on a txt file you specify. I think the default is user-modes.ini (or user-modes+super resolutions.ini?) in the same folder as the VMM exe. Open this file and take a look, it's really simple. Just add modes using the same format.

You don't need to add more modes for mame. Those are all covered by the super resolutions you install. Retroarch may want more modes.

There is this thread about adding more modes to an existing rig - http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,153488.msg1608259.html#msg1608259

And section L) of the guide i wrote up talks about some things as well - https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/87668-A-guide-to-connecting-your-Windows-PC-to-an-SD-CRT-TV-PVM-or-Arcade-Monitor

porkins

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2018, 09:55:58 pm »
I changed the monitor in VMMaker to Wells Gardner K7000, which is what I have. Re-generated modes and installed, rebooted, re-enabled EDID emulation, and all looks good and works well. BUT I have the same issue. Windows programs that run full screen show a split image.

When I generate modes in VMMaker, it will generate 14 modes. 1 is 640x480 for desktop. When I open ArcadeOSD, it lists 15 modes, and there are 2 640x480 modes there. I believe one is 30i and the other is 60i? I may have that wrong. One might be p instead of i.

It seems the Windows programs grab onto that one other mode. I do not see how I can disable the mode. ArcadeOSD allows me to edit it. I'm not sure where the extra mode is being grabbed from.

On my JPac, I had jumpers on 15khz and 31khz. I took off the 31 kHz jumper, and now the image is fast moving lines/garbage instead of the double image when I run those full screen programs. So I think one of those modes is trying to run at 31kHz instead of 15.

I tried using VMMaker and ran modelist import, modelist enum, and deleted the 1 640x480 mode (index 0). Ran ArcadeOSD, and I saw 1 640x480 mode isntead of 2. But when I reboot, there are 2 640x480 modes again in ArcadeOSD.

porkins

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2018, 10:41:32 pm »
I forced Emulation Station to run in Windowed Mode, and it works fine now.

Zebidee

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2018, 01:44:51 am »
Usually you will have 2 640x480 modes.

One you'll see in ArcadeOSD it is called "native". That means it is hard-wired into the GPU driver, you can't delete it. It is a VGA mode (31khz), so you won't want to use it. Your CGA monitor can't display it properly (doubled image).

The other 640x480 mode you likely have is 60i (interlaced) called "custom". It is a CGA mode (15khz). That is what you'll probably want to use as your base desktop resolution for an arcade monitor, at least until later stages of tweaking.

Someone might have more 640x480 modes set, maybe a 25khz mode, or even just the native VGA one, but for most intents and purposes people will have 2 640x480 modes installed as above. You don't want to delete either of them.
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porkins

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2018, 09:49:10 am »
Got it. So my Windows programs are pulling the "native" mode by default. How can I force them to use the custom mode instead? I am mostly thinking of Streets of Rage Remake. I have not attempted it yet, but I imagine it will give me the same issue.

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Re: Groovymame on an Arcade Monitor - Resize?
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2018, 09:05:20 pm »
Go to start menu, type "services", stop and disable the AMD External Events Utility. Go to desktop and bring up screen properties, go into the properties of the monitor and check the "hide modes this monitor can't display" box, or whatever it's called.

Then, if you're on Win 10, search for and open “Power options” in the Start Menu. Click “Choose what the power buttons do” on the left side of the window. Click “Change settings that are currently unavailable.” Under “Shutdown settings” make sure “Turn on fast startup” is disabled/unchecked.

This should stop any program or even the system from grabbing modes it's not meant to, and stop your computer from ever starting up with a letterbox crush.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 09:10:31 pm by buttersoft »

  
 

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