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Author Topic: If money was no object....  (Read 1334 times)

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Jimbo

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If money was no object....
« on: August 24, 2018, 08:29:58 am »
If money was no object, and you were tasked to build a cocktail cabinet with 4 control panels, one on each side....

What controls would you have and how would you lay them out to enable as many old arcade games to be playable as possible?

No frankenpanels allowed, it has to look at least somewhat sane.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 09:05:14 am by Jimbo »

Mike A

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2018, 08:35:33 am »
I would build it and then blow it up with dynamite.

A cocktail cabinet with four control panels is an abomination.

Jimbo

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2018, 08:51:27 am »
Why?

Mike A

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2018, 09:06:09 am »
To start with, it would have to sit in the middle of a decent sized room. You have to accommodate a grown adult sitting in a chair on all 4 sides. A regular cocktail cabinet takes up a ton of space. I have 2 of them. They are a total headache when I try to floor plan my arcade room.

05SRT4

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2018, 09:09:42 am »
Buy a pre-built one online and up-sale it for PURE PROFIT.

Having a controller on all 4 sides is not necessary unless they specifically wanted to play the 2-3 games that were actually made for it.

Keep it legit with one on each side, if its a must then do a 2 player setup on just one long side.

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2018, 09:11:14 am »
To start with, it would have to sit in the middle of a decent sized room. You have to accommodate a grown adult sitting in a chair on all 4 sides. A regular cocktail cabinet takes up a ton of space. I have 2 of them. They are a total headache when I try to floor plan my arcade room.

So for the purposes of this thread lets assume you have a decent sized room and the perfect setting for it.

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2018, 09:14:04 am »
Buy a pre-built one online and up-sale it for PURE PROFIT.

Having a controller on all 4 sides is not necessary unless they specifically wanted to play the 2-3 games that were actually made for it.

Keep it legit with one on each side, if its a must then do a 2 player setup on just one long side.

Ok so let me clarify :) ... the purpose is to be able to play as many games as possible... it's NOT to be able to play on all 4 sides concurrently.  When each game loads it would be configured to be oriented to the most suitable side/control panel for that game.

Locke141

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2018, 09:18:16 am »
What games do you want to play? That should always be the first question. When I did my pedestal I wanted 6 players just for X-man. I decided to add a USB port on each side so I could add game pads for just that. BTW I've played that game exactly once with 6 people. If you really want 4 players add two USB's and build arcade sticks. Go look at my Chrono stick 

Are you thinking like a the two player vertical go on two opposing sides and the horizontal games go on the other two sides. If so, I don't think this is a good idea.

Mike A

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2018, 09:21:25 am »
You would be better off with a full upright cab to play as many games as possible. It will also take up less space than a cocktail.

Playing as many games as possible is a no win situation. You would be much better off taking some time to figure out what games you actually want to play and work from that list. Then if you still want a 4 position cocktail, we will be in a much better position to figure out the controls you will need for it.

If I haven't dissuaded you yet, there is no use in continuing to try. So I will just try to help you make your cab the best it can be. :cheers:

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2018, 09:25:07 am »
Okay.  Next idea where money is no object...Put a fish tank and an arcade cabinet together...With lightning contact paper of course.

05SRT4

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2018, 09:33:26 am »
And make the entire cocktail cabinet look like a aircraft carrier

Jimbo

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2018, 09:46:18 am »
Thanks Mike.  OK I'll explain a little more...

I have an upright already, and am building another.  I want a cocktail for my front room. Family and friends will play it, a lot of kids will play it.  I'll play it the most.  There's enough space in my lounge, but I've also been considering building it so it can swivel (much like a swivel chair).  So you could orient it however you want instead of moving to the side the game is setup for.

I figure that taking the above into consideration, and that you can configure MAME to orient the video of each game however you like, a cocktail cabinet is actually well suited to having more controls panels to enable more games to be played, as it has 4 possible locations for control panels that don't really take up more space when not in use.  Mike, perhaps it might not be your cup of tea and of course that's fine, but you might be able to swap your 2 cocktails for just 1 if you went down this route :)

I've recently managed to bag 4 x 17" CRT Hantarex Polo's (from the last UK remaining stock - win!!) so this will most likely be using one of them. For my own preference of games, as well as general single player 8-way horizontal and vertical shooters, I'd ideally want all of the following playable: -

 - Out run and other single player dial (spinner) controlled games
 - Bubble Bobble, Pang, Hat Trick and other 2-player horizontal games
 - Street Fighter
 - Centipede
 - Asteroids (tho I've never been able to get this to look good on a raster CRT)
 - Robotron
 - Joust
 - Super Sprint
 - Arkanoid
 - Pac Man, Space Invaders, Donkey Kong, Scramble and other classic oldies
 - Gauntlet
 - Warlords
 - Wizard of Wor
 - Hypersports/Track and Field
 - Tehkan world cup

I'm sure there would be others, but there's a start.


Mike A

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2018, 09:49:37 am »
My cocktails are dedicated machines.

Now separate the game list between vertical and horizontal games.

JDFan

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2018, 09:58:25 am »
If money was no object, and you were tasked to build a cocktail cabinet with 4 control panels, one on each side....

What controls would you have and how would you lay them out to enable as many old arcade games to be playable as possible?

No frankenpanels allowed, it has to look at least somewhat sane.

Don't do 4 control panels as that means you have to sit the thing in the center of a room to use it - and the monitors/games  are not designed to look at from all 4 sides ( with a few exceptions like Gauntlet) so someone is playing upside down. IF you want a feel for what that is like start a game and turn your monitor upside down and try playing.

 Go with the regular 3 control panels if you need 4 sets of controls. 2 small ones on the ends and a 2 player set along one side. That way if playing 2 player fighting or horizontal games you sit on the one side and both players get the correct view of the screen instead of 1 playing upside down !  - if playing vertical games you play on the 2 ends like a normal cocktail table and you can place the machine against a wall still to conserve space if wanted.  :cheers:
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 10:07:58 am by JDFan »

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2018, 09:59:10 am »
Part of the reason for asking as I did was because I also wanted Tron and Defender to be playable, but I couldn't think of a sane way to do that without getting into aircraft carrier territory... so I wanted to see if anyone else had any layout brainwaves.

Vigo

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2018, 10:00:01 am »
No offense, but it sounds a little nightmarish to me, at least my understanding. So you plan on having a machine that has a different base controls on each panel, and meaning that you would sit in a different spot to play centipede, vs robotron. Then the orientation would also be automatically changed based on game selected to cater to the controls requested be the cab. How is someone like a kid understand what they should be doing when they have to play musical chairs to play each game? Kids are not familiar with the games either, so expecting them to know something is a trackball or spinner or whatnot is even worse than on an upright. If you are even gonna touch that noise, I would make sure you find a front end that clearly can mark out where you sit, how the screen will be orientated, and what controls are going to be used.

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2018, 10:04:49 am »
If a client asked me to build for them, I’d give them a hard pass. Since you’re building it for yourself… Good luck with your build.
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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2018, 10:06:42 am »
No offense, but it sounds a little nightmarish to me, at least my understanding. So you plan on having a machine that has a different base controls on each panel, and meaning that you would sit in a different spot to play centipede, vs robotron. Then the orientation would also be automatically changed based on game selected to cater to the controls requested be the cab. How is someone like a kid understand what they should be doing when they have to play musical chairs to play each game? Kids are not familiar with the games either, so expecting them to know something is a trackball or spinner or whatnot is even worse than on an upright. If you are even gonna touch that noise, I would make sure you find a front end that clearly can mark out where you sit, how the screen will be orientated, and what controls are going to be used.


Thanks - you make a fair point, and no offence taken :)   I think it wouldn't be too bad for a kid understand it tho... they'd pick a game, it'd load in the specific orientation, so they'd either know to move to that side, or (if I build it this way) swivel the cocktail round.  I think the "know which controls" could be aided with LEDs highlighting them, but that's not something I was considering tbh.... until now!


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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2018, 01:33:34 pm »
I've got to agree.  Cocktail cabinets are quite literally a pain in the neck..... looking straight down like that for long periods is quite painful.  Many of the games you listed are long playthrough games.  It's just not going to work man.   Make a nice generic upright and be happy. 

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2018, 01:46:45 pm »
People do seem to prefer them the for some reason, ( I am thinking they think the small is cute and easy to move around, Or perhaps they think is small size will be a workaround in the wives living room décor, Whatever the rationale Jenn would strongly advise against building one, And Howard probably said it best... They just suck to play.

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2018, 01:57:14 pm »
if money is no object...... build 2 or 3 instead of trying to jam everything into 1.

I cant imagine anyone wanting to play Street Fighter on a cocktail.
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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2018, 02:37:07 pm »
I'll play, but I like doing weird things that somehow still make sense.

Narrow side 1 - the Shmup side: a dedicated shmup joystick (with short throw and engage) on the left, 3 action buttons, and I don't really want to, but I would end up adding a 4-way leaf joystick in between them for original cocktail games that flip the screen on the basis that building a cocktail cabinet that couldn't play original cocktail cabinet games would be wrong.  A better approach might be to use a single Suzo 500 (which is a good shmup stick) and add a mechanism to rotate the base to switch between 4 and 8-way. 

Narrow side 2 - the old school  side: spinner, dedicated 4-way leaf joystick, 2 leaf buttons.  You could add a Tron stick on the right.  I wouldn't, but you could.  If so, make that spinner a hi/lo one.

Long side 1 - The 2 player Neo Geo/Street Fighter side: Happ Supers, straight 6 button layout (concave buttons), no 7th button. If there is room, I'd squeeze the trackball into this side to play The Irritating Maze.  If you want to get crazy add another for player 2 for Marble Madness and a few other games I don't remember. 

Long side 2 - two 360 degree steering wheels, one button each, and pedals for playing games like Super Sprint and Super Off Road.  Add a shifter in between and use the left wheel to play the rest of the 360 degree wheel games.  You may be tempted to add a flight stick, but all flight stick games suck.  If you do add a flight stick, make sure it's analog.

By not having trackballs on the end, you'll miss out on Atari football and Centipede, but they are not worth it IMO.  You could still play Centipede from the side, but the vertical image on the horizontal screen will be small.

EDIT: on the driving side, I'll add that switch pedals work fine for the games I mentioned, but you'll need analog ones for games like Pole Position and Outrun.  Also Outrun didn't use a 360 degree wheel so requires modifying MAME to make it play correctly with one.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 02:46:21 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2018, 02:39:53 pm »
If money is no object, build it so the entire monitor can rotate automatically, and stick to two panels in the normal configuration.  The box will probably have to be a wider to accommodate this, so you'd also have a bit more room on the panels for controls.

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2018, 03:08:20 pm »
I agree with the general consensus, had a couple cocktails for awhile and found them to be a pain for all the reasons outlined.

If you do go ahead you might consider making the top angle-able so you're not limited to staring straight down. Check out this project: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,118776.0.html
Games: Asteroids Deluxe | Atomiswave | Centipede | Championship Sprint | Defender | Donkey Kong | Dig Dug | Frogger | Ikari Warriors | Missile Command | Pac-Man | Pole Position | Robotron | Spy Hunter | Tempest | Super Mario Strikers

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2018, 03:10:07 pm »
if money is no object...... build 2 or 3 instead of trying to jam everything into 1.

There is a computer program I can't seem to put my fingers on.  What it essentially does is it tells you what controls you use for the game you typed in.  My thinking would be to get this program put in the games you want and you can then verify what controls you need.  My thoughts outside of the specialized games like Tron, Qbert, and Ikari Warriors everything should fall into a standard category of 2,4,8 way + 2-4 buttons or a SF type of game that would require 49 way and up to 6 buttons.  Either way like Malenko said your standard player will have, at most, 1-2 cabs.  And if you even went down to 1 cab you could save money (which doesn't seem to be an avenue you want to go down) and purchase restrictors.  Your call.

Ian

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2018, 08:27:34 pm »
To start with, it would have to sit in the middle of a decent sized room. You have to accommodate a grown adult sitting in a chair on all 4 sides. A regular cocktail cabinet takes up a ton of space. I have 2 of them. They are a total headache when I try to floor plan my arcade room.

Very true... I miss my Time Pilot, but I don't at the same time. It was a nightmare to set up without taking up a good 1/4 of the room.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2018, 09:15:18 pm »
If money was no object....

Buy two buildings for your arcade games. Have one as a warm spare in case power is out. Have all dedicated hardware. Hire a team of technicians to maintain it. Hire dancers to pole dance and waitresses to bring you drinks while playing. Hire a team of developers to create Marble Madness 2, Tron 2, and Donkey Kong 2 (Donkey Kong Jr. doesn't count), build a factory to reproduce vector/arcade monitors and WICO joysticks. Have $100,000 retro arcade tournaments weekly to keep the hobby alive.

Think big! Money is no object.

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2018, 09:19:48 pm »
If money was no object....

Buy two buildings for your arcade games. Have one as a warm spare in case power is out. Have all dedicated hardware. Hire a team of technicians to maintain it. Hire dancers to pole dance and waitresses to bring you drinks while playing. Hire a team of developers to create Marble Madness 2, Tron 2, and Donkey Kong 2 (Donkey Kong Jr. doesn't count), build a factory to reproduce vector/arcade monitors and WICO joysticks. Have $100,000 retro arcade tournaments weekly to keep the hobby alive.

Think big! Money is no object.

 :lol
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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2018, 09:56:30 am »
if money is no object...... build 2 or 3 instead of trying to jam everything into 1.

I cant imagine anyone wanting to play Street Fighter on a cocktail.

Now if you build the cocktail like a Williams Joust? Maybe?

« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 09:59:08 am by Ian »
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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2018, 12:40:07 pm »
A Joust cocktail has awful ergonomics absolutely awful when you try to play. Might be OK for ET.

4 player atari Warlords and 4 player atari football works well.

This is how to do it right when money or space isn’t an object.  6 player Starlords at CAX.




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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2018, 12:48:06 pm »
A Joust cocktail has awful ergonomics absolutely awful when you try to play. Might be OK for ET.

4 player atari Warlords and 4 player atari football works well.

This is how to do it right when money or space isn’t an object.  6 player Starlords at CAX.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good to know... I never came across one in the wild. That starlords looks pretty slick.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2018, 01:01:37 pm »


A Joust cocktail has awful ergonomics absolutely awful when you try to play.

It's the angled joysticks.  [emoji3]

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2018, 01:19:05 pm »



It's the angled joysticks.  [emoji3]

That reminds me of a donkey kong cocktail with the horizontal joysticks.  I bought one of those once and thankfully was able to return it.

With Joust the monitor is slightly angled but it is still hard to see the far corners, you have to pull your shoulders back, crane your neck up and forward, then tilt your head to see different parts of the screen.   I can’t believe that ever past the engineering teams playing time in dev


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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2018, 02:13:26 pm »
if money is no object...... build 2 or 3 instead of trying to jam everything into 1.
I cant imagine anyone wanting to play Street Fighter on a cocktail.
Now if you build the cocktail like a Williams Joust? Maybe?
I actually thought of that cab when replying. Well, the one that was converted to MAME or consoles using SNES "Super Advantage" controllers. Still, no.
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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2018, 08:07:42 am »

Good to know... I never came across one in the wild. That starlords looks pretty slick.


That's because there weren't any.

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2018, 09:21:06 am »

Good to know... I never came across one in the wild. That starlords looks pretty slick.


That's because there weren't any.

Then where do all these Joust cocktails come from I wonder?

« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 01:31:22 pm by Ian »
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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2018, 11:42:23 pm »
Starlords looks like a custom cabinet. Nobody, nor search, is telling me different.



Good to know... I never came across one in the wild. That starlords looks pretty slick.


That's because there weren't any.

Then where do all these Joust cocktails come from I wonder?


Ian

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Re: If money was no object....
« Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 04:42:12 pm »
Starlords looks like a custom cabinet. Nobody, nor search, is telling me different.



Good to know... I never came across one in the wild. That starlords looks pretty slick.


That's because there weren't any.

Then where do all these Joust cocktails come from I wonder?



I was talking about the Joust cocktail. I never saw one in public.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

  
 

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