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Author Topic: AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb  (Read 741 times)

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gizmo1990

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AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb
« on: July 06, 2018, 08:30:37 am »
I'm making another attempt to finally get a Wells Gardner monitor up and running so I'm looking at video cards to test it with. For many years I thought the go to solution was the arcadevga, but checking around it appears that an old Radeon is more in vogue now? Better supported/easier/cheaper..

I've lowered my search to the 2 cards in the title. I'm not bothered with running titles newer than say early 90s so I'd imagine either card should manage emulation from that era fine, plus they're passive which is a plus for me.

Could anyone confirm if these are indeed decent cards for running a arcade monitor from? I thought it best to ask just to be sure. Any info greatly appreciated.

buttersoft

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Re: AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2018, 07:34:53 pm »
Everything else being equal, crt_emudriver 2.0 is faster, better, easier and cheaper.

Assuming the R5 230 has a VGA or DVI-I port, there's not much to choose between them. Avoid a using port connected by ribbon to the main card if you can, as they sometimes get noise. I'd probably go the newer card, but either will work to get 15kHz from for Windows 7 or Windows 10. Games from the early 90's will not require any GPU power to speak of, but you still need a compatible GPU to push the right video mode.

Make sure to read the first two posts of the link below about which version of crt_emudriver 2.0 to download, which setup guide to follow, and using composite sync (which last you don't need if you're using a JAPC or something like that for the video amplifier the arcade monitor will almost certainly require to boost the PC video signal.) Newer versions of the driver are better than old, unless you know you need a superseded feature.

http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295

« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 07:43:25 pm by buttersoft »

gizmo1990

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Re: AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2018, 05:18:27 pm »
@buttersoft Thanks a lot for your reply. I'll likely go with your suggestion and get the newer card. The only issue is that both cards' VGA connector (likely the connector I'd connect to the monitor) is connected via a ribbon cable... Sapphire seem to be the only makers of this age of card. https://www.ebuyer.com/641531-sapphire-radeon-r5-230-2gb-ddr3-vga-dvi-hdmi-pci-e-graphics-card-11233-02-20g

AFAIK you can't connect arcade monitors via dvi nor hdmi can you? How prevalent is the noise issue?

buttersoft

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Re: AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2018, 07:35:02 pm »
AFAIK you can't connect arcade monitors via dvi nor hdmi can you? How prevalent is the noise issue?

YW, and to be honest I'm not sure about the answer to that last question. I've seen it myself on one card, a 5450, but that had a DVI-I port as well. I was only looking out for it on reports from other people though, and i've seen at least three of those. It might be fine, but if you can avoid it it's another hiccup you won't have to deal with.

DVI-I ports do both both DVI-A (which is just VGA through a different plug, and those passive DVI-to-VGA adapters work for that) and DVI-D. Neither DVI-D nor HDMI nor DP is suitable, and would require an active X-to-VGA converter, which will probably add complications.

gizmo1990

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Re: AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 06:35:12 am »
Thanks again @buttersoft Is there a thread or list somewhere which details specific video cards which work well with crt_emudriver? I don't want to end up getting a card, only to be foiled by noise or some other issue. I've been unable to find one so far. I'd of thought there must be a place where users are posting their setups and experience?

buttersoft

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Re: AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 08:20:33 pm »
Thanks again @buttersoft Is there a thread or list somewhere which details specific video cards which work well with crt_emudriver? I don't want to end up getting a card, only to be foiled by noise or some other issue. I've been unable to find one so far. I'd of thought there must be a place where users are posting their setups and experience?

The GroovyMAME subforum on here is a good place to look for secondary info. It's in the list of forums above. We haven't seen generic issues for a whole category of desktop cards specifically, save some older DMS-59 cards (the weird double-adapter port), and the odd report about ribbon noise.

For a list of compatible cards you want the crt_emudriver 2.0 download thread I linked before. You must read the first two posts there from beginning to end, in order to succeed with setup.

I did write out a basic but very lengthy guide that sort of covers this stuff, and one way or another i end up linking to it so i don't have to type it out in bits and pieces over and over, lol - https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/87668-A-guide-to-connecting-your-Windows-PC-to-an-SD-CRT-TV-PVM-or-Arcade-Monitor
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 08:26:08 pm by buttersoft »

krick

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Re: AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2018, 01:18:15 am »
Thanks again @buttersoft Is there a thread or list somewhere which details specific video cards which work well with crt_emudriver? I don't want to end up getting a card, only to be foiled by noise or some other issue. I've been unable to find one so far. I'd of thought there must be a place where users are posting their setups and experience?

I'll chime in with my $0.02 here if buttersoft doesn't mind...

In my opinion, you should use Windows 7 64-bit and should get at *least* a Radeon HD 5000 series card or newer.  Ideally, one of the "GCN" cards would be ideal as they'll likely have driver support for any possible future versions of CRT Emudriver as AMD has ended support for non-GCN cards.  This is the list of supported cards for the GCN driver on the CRT Emudriver 2.0 download page...

Desktop: AMD Radeon HD 7700-7900, HD 8500-8900 Series
               AMD Radeon R7 200, R7 300, R9 200, R9 300, R9 Nano, R9 Fury Series


As an aside, I got pretty lucky when I found my card.  It's a Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 which is a first-generation GCN card.  It's a full-height card with an actual VGA port that is *not* connected with a ribbon cable.  This particular card is also a low-power model that doesn't require (or even have a plug for) an external power cable.  I chose this card specifically because I'm using it in an arcade cabinet so cooling is less than optimal.  Lower power = less heat.  Unfortunately, this wasn't a particularly popular card so there's not that many floating around on the used market.  In fact, the one I got was a "refurbished" unit.

I think this is the model that I have...
http://www.sapphiretech.com/productdetial.asp?Pid=7D04A2EB-CEDB-4C8F-A3F9-CAE7D00E5FA1

Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.8GHz
ASUS Z87M-PLUS Motherboard

buttersoft

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Re: AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2018, 09:50:09 pm »
I'm always happy for people to chime in with more info. I'll admit i took it as read that we were talking crt_emudriver 2.0 and a Radeon 5000 series card or newer, but that card you posted is a pretty good recommendation :)

gizmo1990

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Re: AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2018, 08:27:36 am »
Thanks for the replies guys. I ended up going for this old 5450, which I managed to get for under $10. Hopefully it should enable me to at least test my monitor when the time comes. It says it's DVI-I so that should be okay to use with a passive adaptor shouldn't it?


krick

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Re: AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2018, 10:22:41 am »
I think that pin header at the top is where the VGA port is supposed to connect.  Usually on low-profile cards, it's on a separate bracket and connected with a ribbon cable.  On a full-height card, the ribbon cable connects the VGA port on the same bracket like pictured here...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ati_radeonhd_5450&num=2

I think that GroovyMAME requires the output to go to the VGA port if the card has one but I'm not 100% sure.  You might need to track down a ribbon cable+bracket to make that work.

Just search for VGA port extension bracket...  https://www.google.com/search?q=vga+port+extension+bracket
Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.8GHz
ASUS Z87M-PLUS Motherboard

gizmo1990

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Re: AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2018, 07:14:15 pm »
Thanks for the reply @krick I've been looking for a VGA port expansion but couldn't work out its correct name, so thanks for that!

AFAIK, I don't need it though.. The DVI-I port should be compatible with the 15khz emulator using a passive adaptor. At least that's what I've read. Can anyone else confirm if that is definitely the case?

buttersoft

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Re: AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2018, 07:17:01 pm »
BOTH outputs on that 5450 should be analog. When setting up, when you get to the VMM steps, you just need to make sure you target the particular output you want to use for EDID emulation.  And then possibly have GM target the right display in the mame.ini.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 07:19:49 pm by buttersoft »

gizmo1990

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Re: AMD R5 230 2gb vs Radeon hd 6450 2gb
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2018, 07:31:17 pm »
Thanks @buttersoft that's good to know. Tracking down a specific VGA port extension bracket was proving troublesome, so the passive adaptor route will be much easier.

  
 

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