Hacking a Betson 3" Trackball

[SirPeale]

I just got a Betson 3" Trackball.  I thought I could just take off the wires to a PS/2 mouse and connect it up, but didn't know the pinout.

So, hoping someone had done something similar, I found this:

http://www.members.shaw.ca/bakaye/tballhack.htm

Snazzy.  Problem is, I don't get most of it.  I now wish I had taken electronics when I was in school.

[SirPeale]

Reading further into it it seems easier than I first thought.  I'm definitely going to give this a go, but I wish I had a molex connector so I would not have to chop the existing setup.

[bigmoe]

Reading further into it it seems easier than I first thought.  I'm definitely going to give this a go, but I wish I had a molex connector so I would not have to chop the existing setup.

I've noticed my RadioShack carries molex's, though I've never looked at the sizes.

[SirPeale]

Looking at the pinout for a typical PS/2 mouse:

http://www.nmt.edu/~armiller/ps-2mouse.htm

It's difficult to make a connection between the trackball pinout and a mouse pinout. They both have six wires, GND and +5V, but for PS/2 we've got 'DATA' 'CLOCK' and two 'RESERVED'.  On the trackball there is 'VCLOCK' 'VDIR' 'HCLOCK' and 'HDIR'.

I'm confused.

[GadgetGeek]

Wouldn't Oscar's pre-hacked mouse be a good solution here?

[SirPeale]

Wouldn't Oscar's pre-hacked mouse be a good solution here?

Sure it would.  And what fun would that be?  Not to mention that I already have the mouse, I should be able to do this pretty easily once I figure it out.

[rampy]

Peale... I've done this before....

I used a radio shack molex to "preserve" the original molex...

there's an betson molex wire color scheme ancient thread here (i'm fishing for it now -- EDIT found->be sure to read all the way through as u_rebel had it wrongside right the first time) that explains which color wires go where...

do you have a pic of the mouse guts in question?  

Some ps/2 mouses are easier to hack than others...

what was the question again?

rampy

EDIT --->Dude... I think you have the wrong idea on how to "hack" a mouse...
You don't use the pinouts... you remove the IR headers by the light choppers and wire where those were to the X+, X- and Y+, Y- wires on the trackball... know what I mean vern?  Let me know if you need further explanation/help, I'll do my best... that first document you linked to is good, but I can see how it could confuse you with technical details that you may not necessarily need to perform the hack (no knock on the original author--- details are good... his guide is what I used to do mine!)

[rampy]

A few more guides (you don't have to use a betson specific mouse hack guide...just be cognizant that hte wires will be different colors, but do basically the same thing)

I found mamewah's guide helpful too!

mameworld mouse hack

anitabill page

(I like to look at a lot of different examples and soak up the info to figure out how to accomplish stuff...)  I probably have pictures of a mouse hack on ubercade's site, but I bet they are fuzzy =P

good luck Peale!

rampy

[SirPeale]

EDIT --->Dude... I think you have the wrong idea on how to "hack" a mouse...

Nah, I was trying something.  Since the data is the same all the way around, I thought you could just hook up a PS/2 cable and be off.  Guess there is more to the electronics part of it than I thought.

I think the only thing I'm not 100% clear on is how the power (NEG and +5V) are hooked up.  Does it go to the mouse PCB and then off to the trackball, or right to the trackball?

[rampy]

I may be wrong, as I don't have an intimate knowledge of the ps/2 protocols involved.... but I don't think the data is the same all the way around... some sort of encoding needs to be done, lest a mouse would just be the IR txr/rx and no other electronics... but i fault you not for thinking outside the mouse, I applaud it... I was just trying to point you towards conventional mouse hacking wisdom...

Regarding the power supply... I used neg and +5v from my computer powersupply... one of the IDE power molex'es... to power the trackball's optics, (the mouse get's the power it needs from the ps/2 port...)  IIRC USB has 5 volt lines as well (right?! it's been a while since i last looked at this stuff) if you'd prefer...  I think you *can* try and tap +5v and neg from the mouse itself but I chose not to or didn't find a good steady canidate component to tap it from.

*shrug*

Good luck!

Rampy

[Zeitgeist]

Peal,
I agree that doing it youself is what makes it fun.
I, like probably most of us here, spend more time working on projects than I do playing the games.
Before you go cutting up that trackball lead, here's my old tutorial hosted here at BYOAC.
http://www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Miscellaneous/Mouse_to_Trackball_Instructions.pdf
It works without having to tap into your PC PSU.
The pinouts have been tested on & do work with wico 2.25" trackballs as well as the 3" imperial (Betson) that you have.
The hack is pretty close to what Oscar sells.
In fact I think he may have recently posted a quick how-to write up in reponse to another post.
Supprisingly enough, the molex connector that you will need to interface with most trackballs (including the one you have) is indeed still available at radioshack, however some of the kids working there will get that deer-in-the-headlight look if you ask about anything other than cell phones
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
Good luck.
Z

[OSCAR]

I also just posted some info in this thread that may help:

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=15673

[Zeitgeist]

Oscar,
I hate this experssion & never use it but in this case it fits: You da man!
Your work was my inspiration.
I studied the pics of your interface as well as your tutorial for a while before I came up with my hack to interface through the original molex.
Thanks!
Z

[OSCAR]

Oscar,
I hate this experssion & never use it but in this case it fits: You da man!
Your work was my inspiration.
I studied the pics of your interface as well as your tutorial for a while before I came up with my hack to interface through the original molex.
Thanks!
Z

Thanks, I appreciate it!  Hopefully this time I did a better job explaining how I do it.  After hacking 1000+ mice, I do them in my sleep.  And what may seem perfectly obvious to me could certainly be confusing to someone doing it for the first time.

In the example linked above, a 6-circuit Molex plug could be substituted for the (2) 4-circuit Molex connectors.  In that case, there would be (1) +5V, (1) GND, and (4) signal wires from the trackball side of the harness going to the mouse pcb.  An important note here is that when combining the (2) +5V wires to the Happ optic boards, you have to make sure your connections to the mouse pcb are sufficient to power both optic boards.  What I do is splice both phototransistor middle-pin connections together to feed the +5V pin in the trackball plug, and that works just fine.  An alternate location to power both trackball optic boards is to solder a wire to the backside of the mouse pcb were the PC +5V connection cable is soldered to the board.

[RandyT]

I may be wrong, as I don't have an intimate knowledge of the ps/2 protocols involved.... but I don't think the data is the same all the way around...

You aren't wrong.  There's much more to the process than just hooking up wires to the PS/2 port.

Unless you feel like coding a microcontroller to do the translation of pulses => PS/2 protocol then look at using a mouse hack.  Someone already did the work for you there .

RandyT

BTW, as long as we are talking about Betson trackballs, I expect to have a modification kit available for these very soon.  It will significantly boost the accuracy and cursor speed of these units.  FWIW.

[SirPeale]

Oscar: I'll second it, YOU DA MAN!  

Now where do you pick up those headers?  Likely not the Rat Shack.

Randy: nifty!

[OSCAR]

Any sort of .100" spacing header should work just fine.  Here's some Molex part numbers for reference:  22-23-2031 (straight post w/ friction lock) , 22-03-2031 (straight post).  Most of the bigger retailers like Mouser, Newark, and DigiKey will let you search with the Molex numbers.  I buy mine from whoever I happen to be placing an order with at the time, which is typically either Mouser or Newark.

If you don't want to get into crimping terminals for the plugs, CD-ROM audio cables with the black housings are .100" and can be hacked to plug into the pin headers.