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Author Topic: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM  (Read 562 times)

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Yardley

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Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« on: May 02, 2018, 11:07:35 pm »
Hi guys, I have a PVM-20L5 which supports 480p, 720p and 1080i. I am trying to get 480p working to use with PCSX2 for games that support it. After reading a few posts on here I went into VMM and changed the monitor preset to the Arcade 15/31 kHz dual-sync monitor. I also edited my .ini and added the line 640 x 480 @ 60.000000. After making these changes, I can see 640x480 60P in Arcade OSD and I can select it and other than some geometry issues it looks ok however the windows desktop when set to this resolution doesn't display properly and neither does PCXS2. Here's a picture, what I'm I missing?




buttersoft

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2018, 12:36:45 am »
Do you mean the streaky lines on the side of everything? I want to say it's possible that's caused by porches. Try bringing the sides of the image in with ArcadeOSD and see what happens?

After that, this kind of streaking problem isn't uncommon. What happens with sources other than a PC, both 15kHz and all the way up to 720p, does it do the same thing?

Yardley

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 12:47:40 am »
Do you mean the streaky lines on the side of everything? I want to say it's possible that's caused by porches. Try bringing the sides of the image in with ArcadeOSD and see what happens?

After that, this kind of streaking problem isn't uncommon. What happens with sources other than a PC, both 15kHz and all the way up to 720p, does it do the same thing?

That and everything else, the black that you see is part of it too. Itís fine on 15kHz with the PC. About ArcadeOSD, I tried to tweak the geometry but I donít understand how it works. I couldnít see any change in size after tweaking the parameters.

Calamity

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 06:19:20 am »
Yes, the horizontal front porch is probably too low.

You can't edit the current desktop resolution. Set a different one for the desktop, then you'll be able to edit the previous one with Arcade OSD.
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Yardley

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2018, 01:57:36 pm »
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I tried some things but got nowhere. I am pretty lust to be honest. Here what I did: in ArcadeOSD I selected video modes, and pressed enter on 640 480 60p 31.498 KHz. The PVM flashes and splays 480/60P. I went to Horizontal Geometry and tried increasing the H front porch from 1 through 31 and then random higher numbers after that but I didn't see a difference. On the button where it shows what the different keys do, what is [P2]?

buttersoft

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2018, 09:02:11 pm »
To reiterate what Calamity said, you're not allowed to be using the mode you want to adjust. If your desktop is set to 640x480 you cannot edit that mode while in ArcadeOSD, so set the desktop to something else. Also, I believe you can't edit modes the EDID emulation sets. If you enable a single mode via EDID emulation it will be 640x480@30, i think it is, so you often have two 640x480 modes in the list, one of which can't be altered.

Setting the front porch higher would normally move the right-hand side of the visible picture inward. The back porch is the left side, and more likely to help this issue. (EDIT: don't know where I got that from, given calamity says the opposite, above?)

I can't for the life of me think what [P2] is. I'll have to go check :) How many monitors are you using at once, just the PVM or an LCD too?

« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 11:53:05 pm by buttersoft »

Yardley

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2018, 09:25:09 pm »
To reiterate what Calamity said, you're not allowed to be using the mode you want to adjust. If your desktop is set to 640x480 you cannot edit that mode while in ArcadeOSD, so set the desktop to something else. Also, I believe you can't edit modes the EDID emulation sets. If you enable a single mode via EDID emulation it will be 640x480@30, i think it is, so you often have two 640x480 modes in the list, one of which can't be altered.

Setting the front porch higher would normally move the right-hand side of the visible picture inward. The back porch is the left side, and more likely to help this issue.

I can't for the life of me think what [P2] is. I'll have to go check :) How many monitors are you using at once, just the PVM or an LCD too?

I do have an LCD connected along with the PVM. About not using the resolution I am trying to edit, I caught that from Calamity's response but when I select the resolution I want to edit in ArcadeOSD doesn't the desktop resolution switch to that automatically?

buttersoft

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2018, 11:01:10 pm »
I do have an LCD connected along with the PVM. About not using the resolution I am trying to edit, I caught that from Calamity's response but when I select the resolution I want to edit in ArcadeOSD doesn't the desktop resolution switch to that automatically?

Windows probably protects what it has recorded in the registry as the desktop, so until you tell windows to switch, you're only altering what you're looking at, not what windows records as the desktop. Just a guess.

Are you targeting the right display with both VMM for EDID emulation and then with ArcadeOSD? You could test this with the arcade_15 preset in VMM, because the LCD probably won't like that. So set that preset and enable EDID emulation, then without adding any modes, in ArcadeOSD hit the "2" key, the number key, to switch displays, and the "1" key to lock to current display if needed. Make sure ArcadeOSD is on the PVM and locked to it. Then you should only be seeing the 640x480 interlaced mode the EDID specifies in the modelist, all other other modes should be greyed out. If that's not the case then you're not targeting the right display, or using the right video port on your GPU.

Apologies if this is taking you back a few steps with these posts, just trying to get a handle on what might be wrong :) What graphics card are you using, by the way? And how is it cabled? And do other 480p sources look the same?

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2018, 10:27:04 am »
Hi guys, I have a PVM-20L5 which supports 480p, 720p and 1080i. I am trying to get 480p working to use with PCSX2 for games that support it. After reading a few posts on here I went into VMM and changed the monitor preset to the Arcade 15/31 kHz dual-sync monitor. I also edited my .ini and added the line 640 x 480 @ 60.000000. After making these changes, I can see 640x480 60P in Arcade OSD and I can select it and other than some geometry issues it looks ok however the windows desktop when set to this resolution doesn't display properly and neither does PCXS2. Here's a picture, what I'm I missing?



Maybe it's also a sync issue?

I'm really not sure. I also have a PVM-20L5 and remember to have the same problem. Please, let us know if you fix it.

Calamity

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2018, 01:21:36 pm »
I do have an LCD connected along with the PVM. About not using the resolution I am trying to edit, I caught that from Calamity's response but when I select the resolution I want to edit in ArcadeOSD doesn't the desktop resolution switch to that automatically?

No, it just enabled the resolution temporaly, it's not a permament setting, like when you do it from the screen properties Windows dialog.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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cyb

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2018, 06:48:24 pm »
How do you have your PC connected to the PVM? How are you combining sync? When I had a 20L5 I had a similar issue with Dreamcast VGA. Someone one here suggested using an Extron Sync Stabilizer (ss200) and that fixed all of my problems.

Yardley

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2018, 07:32:28 pm »
How do you have your PC connected to the PVM? How are you combining sync? When I had a 20L5 I had a similar issue with Dreamcast VGA. Someone one here suggested using an Extron Sync Stabilizer (ss200) and that fixed all of my problems.

VGA to RGB using the composite sync feature of CRT Emudriver. I took a look at the Extron, looks like its RGBHV in and out? Do you also use composite sync through CRT Emudriver or are you using something else?

cyb

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2018, 07:55:57 pm »
It's been several years since I used it but at that time groovymame did not support composite sync so I used RGBHV, but the device was able to output composite sync. An extron RGB rxi/xi interface might work better in this scenario now that I think about it.

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2018, 10:00:56 pm »
If you're not scaling you could even try an extron 190F, those tend to be a tad cheaper.

Yardley

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2018, 12:52:34 am »
Thanks guys. Just so I understand this correctly, I would connect the PC to the Extron through VGA, then go out to the PVM through RGBs from the Extron and I would disable composite sync in CRT Emudriver since the Extron is taking care of combining the sync?

How do these Extron devices fix the issue with 480p? Buttorsoft, not scaling meaning adjusting the size vertically and horizontally? It would actually be nice to be able to do that so I wouldn't mind paying a bit more.

buttersoft

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2018, 01:11:43 am »
Well, cyb is saying he had an issue like this with a PVM-20L5 and was able to fix it using an extron unit. And Calamity was saying it looked like a front porch issue, which is sync-related as well. I'm not sure if this will work for you or not, but if you don't want to try recombining sync for yourself with a breadboard, some breakouts and a pack of resistors, then getting an extron isn't a bad idea. Extron make many different devices, and used to make tons more, and many of them are really good at combining sync, doing so very cleanly.

Yes, it would be PC ---> VGA cable ---> Extron ----> 4 BNC cables for RGBS (or RCA+adapters) ---> PVM-20L5

The 20L5 will take 480p via RGBS happily.

I meant not scaling as in not upscaling or downscaling, keeping the same resolution and timings. So with the extron 190F you feed 480p in, and 480p comes out, or 720p for 720p, etc. ignoring any signal formats here. Obviously you're converting RGBHV to RGBS in this case too, and there is a function for horizontally shifting the picture, so remember to try this out as it might help fix things too. The extron 201 and 203, IRC, are taking whatever you feed in and turning it into 240p/480i. Or they can do that but don't have to? Either way they cost a bit more and you might be paying for something you don't need. That said, take a look at those units and see if they're doing something you might want. It's worth looking up the documentation for any extron you're thinking of buying to check it out, most of them would be pretty cool to have in general.

If you do grab one, report back with results please :)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 01:23:57 am by buttersoft »

Yardley

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2018, 01:21:40 am »
Thanks that makes sense. And being able to adjust the image horizontally is what could possible fix my problem?

buttersoft

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2018, 01:39:02 am »
possibly, yes. It might even be that cleaning up the sync generally does it, but shifting horizontally might help. Be aware that this might introduce a tiny delay, and thus video lag, but it shouldn't be too bad.

I should probably edit the above post though, because the 203rxi units look to be bigger, better versions of the 190F, with audio passthrough and an internal power supply where the 190F can be a bit sensitive to its external one.  They even have vertical position adjustment, which might help as well. And they don't seem to scale anything either.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 01:43:57 am by buttersoft »

Yardley

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Re: Using 480p with Multiformat PVM
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2018, 10:25:12 am »
Thank you very much.

  
 

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