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Author Topic: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.  (Read 2607 times)

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Locke141

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R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« on: April 21, 2018, 01:11:03 pm »
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 01:20:21 pm by Locke141 »

Osirus23

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2018, 02:28:06 pm »
What does "R-Pi hating" (which I really enjoy doing) have to do with any of this?

yotsuya

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2018, 05:09:06 pm »
What does "R-Pi hating" (which I really enjoy doing) have to do with any of this?

I didnít even look at the link. Thanks for confirming. :-)
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

chopperthedog

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2018, 07:02:07 pm »
Pi's are great, a majority of the user base is obnoxious though.


good day.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 07:19:53 pm »
Pi's are so easy to work with... N64 still sucks though. I dont do alot of Hyperspin these days, might even switch to attract mode for PC.

Locke141

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2018, 10:25:55 pm »
Pi's are great, a majority of the user base is obnoxious though.


good day.

This is true. But when ever they come up people jump on how there not the best option.

The article is interesting, the retro pi guys have cut the lag to from a button press, to the point where it's now faster the it would be on original NES hardware, with out just spending up the game.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 10:44:57 pm by Locke141 »

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2018, 10:42:46 pm »
Actually read the article.... isnít this basically how Mortal Kombat worked?


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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2018, 12:08:08 am »
Me too... It says the Pi probably canít handle the overhead, sooooooo.....
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elvis

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2018, 07:24:20 am »
Pi's are great, a majority of the user base is obnoxious though.
ITYM "vocal minority". I don't think anyone has the time to listen to the majority of the 13 million + user base.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 07:35:04 am by elvis »

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2018, 09:02:23 am »
Pi's are great, a majority of the user base is obnoxious though.
ITYM "vocal minority". I don't think anyone has the time to listen to the majority of the 13 million + user base.

Pis are great, but not for emulation, they're about the worst possible thing you can use for emulation.  The userbase is obnoxious, yes.

The article is basically about some BS per-game hacking they're doing, running emulation ahead for a certain amount of code based on databases of game behavior.  It doesn't scale well at all and is completely the opposite direction to proper emulation, but since they're press whores they've got quite a few tech sites to go nuts over this.

Anything promising 'better than reality' is dangerous territory.

There are people actually looking at proper approaches, see the Blur Busters 'beam racing' stuff.  That actually requires real work on the emulation to improve it to render things in a way closer to the original hardware so that the workload is spread out evenly over scanlines like the original hardware would, and requires real improvements to the emulation rather than lamely hacking away at things.  GroovyMAME actually has an experimental mode for doing things the proper way, but since many of the MAME drivers aren't emulated at that level of accuracy yet, and it needs to be more of a core thing, it doesn't always works.

Unfortunately false approaches like the ones RA are pimping out is only going to detract away from people actually trying to do it properly with proper long-term benefits and real emulation improvements.

It's just another case of how RA and the scene surrounding it are actively problematic for those looking for real solutions and with a desire to see things done properly.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 09:06:17 am by Haze »

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2018, 09:30:01 am »


The article is basically about some BS per-game hacking they're doing, running emulation ahead for a certain amount of code based on databases of game behavior.  It doesn't scale well at all and is completely the opposite direction to proper emulation, but since they're press whores they've got quite a few tech sites to go nuts over this.

Don't get me wrong - I'm 100% with you here, and my desires for where emulation should head match folks like yourself, Byuu, and others patiently striving for accuracy as the primary goal, ahead of other rushed conveniences.

All I'm saying is don't write off the RPi "community" because of a very small, but sadly very vocal and sometimes obnoxious minority. The same goes for Linux, and how the RPi community doesn't necessarily represent what fans of accurate emulation on Linux want. (As much as I do enjoy Linux, the RPi has brought an audience to Linux that isn't always pleasant, not that the previous Linux community was much better at times).

I recently read through the RetroArch/libretro insanity that made it to the comments section of your blog back in 2014, and it's stuff like that that gives the rational, quiet majority a bad name. I salute you and the other members of MAMEDev on managing to maintain civility. I would not have had the same patience.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 09:37:08 am by elvis »

yotsuya

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2018, 10:15:25 am »


The article is basically about some BS per-game hacking they're doing, running emulation ahead for a certain amount of code based on databases of game behavior.  It doesn't scale well at all and is completely the opposite direction to proper emulation, but since they're press whores they've got quite a few tech sites to go nuts over this.

Don't get me wrong - I'm 100% with you here, and my desires for where emulation should head match folks like yourself, Byuu, and others patiently striving for accuracy as the primary goal, ahead of other rushed conveniences.

All I'm saying is don't write off the RPi "community" because of a very small, but sadly very vocal and sometimes obnoxious minority. The same goes for Linux, and how the RPi community doesn't necessarily represent what fans of accurate emulation on Linux want. (As much as I do enjoy Linux, the RPi has brought an audience to Linux that isn't always pleasant, not that the previous Linux community was much better at times).

I recently read through the RetroArch/libretro insanity that made it to the comments section of your blog back in 2014, and it's stuff like that that gives the rational, quiet majority a bad name. I salute you and the other members of MAMEDev on managing to maintain civility. I would not have had the same patience.

Well said, elvis.
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Osirus23

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2018, 02:51:22 pm »
The article is interesting, the retro pi guys have cut the lag to from a button press, to the point where it's now faster the it would be on original NES hardware, with out just spending up the game.

This is a RetroArch feature.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2018, 02:57:36 pm »
Hasn't GroovyMAME been doing this for years on a CRT?
Stop by my Youtube channel and leave a comment:

Locke141

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2018, 03:59:05 pm »
I agree with elvis as well.

The R-pi is not the a good platform for emulation, but for many caesural users it's a good enough to play around with.

 

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2018, 09:17:26 pm »
How is it "not a good platform"?  It's a computer, no different than any other computer.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2018, 10:40:17 pm »
How is it "not a good platform"?  It's a computer, no different than any other computer.

#1. It is terribly under-powered compared to the average computer.

#2. They use an ARM processor, which means you can pretty much throw 20+ years of existing x86 emulator development out the window.

#3. When X86 emulator code is ported to ARM it tends to take about 3 times as many clock cycles per frame than the same code on X86.

#4. Unix based operating systems are far from ideal for gaming. All the real gaming and emulator development is done on Windows.

However it is really easy to copy your configuration over and rip people off selling your pi powered emulation systems, and THAT is the main reason why you have all these people defending the things, because they are ripping people off with them.

Man, I want a new car, what should I get? Oh man, you have to get a 1999 Kia, they are the best. The Pi is the 1999 Kia of emulation. Slow, it doesn't work very well, even though it doesn't cost much it still isn't worth it, and everyone will secretly be laughing at you when they see it.

#5. There is nothing worse for emulation that you can buy new today that anyone is actually using.

#6. Any X86 computer built in the 21st century that has at least 1GB of ram is better than a pi.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 10:43:42 pm by paigeoliver »
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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2018, 02:08:42 pm »
How is it "not a good platform"?  It's a computer, no different than any other computer.

#1. It is terribly under-powered compared to the average computer.

#2. They use an ARM processor, which means you can pretty much throw 20+ years of existing x86 emulator development out the window.

#3. When X86 emulator code is ported to ARM it tends to take about 3 times as many clock cycles per frame than the same code on X86.

#4. Unix based operating systems are far from ideal for gaming. All the real gaming and emulator development is done on Windows.

However it is really easy to copy your configuration over and rip people off selling your pi powered emulation systems, and THAT is the main reason why you have all these people defending the things, because they are ripping people off with them.

Man, I want a new car, what should I get? Oh man, you have to get a 1999 Kia, they are the best. The Pi is the 1999 Kia of emulation. Slow, it doesn't work very well, even though it doesn't cost much it still isn't worth it, and everyone will secretly be laughing at you when they see it.

#5. There is nothing worse for emulation that you can buy new today that anyone is actually using.

#6. Any X86 computer built in the 21st century that has at least 1GB of ram is better than a pi.

errr you do know playstation 4 runs on Unix right?



paigeoliver

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2018, 02:40:34 pm »
How is it "not a good platform"?  It's a computer, no different than any other computer.

#1. It is terribly under-powered compared to the average computer.

#2. They use an ARM processor, which means you can pretty much throw 20+ years of existing x86 emulator development out the window.

#3. When X86 emulator code is ported to ARM it tends to take about 3 times as many clock cycles per frame than the same code on X86.

#4. Unix based operating systems are far from ideal for gaming. All the real gaming and emulator development is done on Windows.

However it is really easy to copy your configuration over and rip people off selling your pi powered emulation systems, and THAT is the main reason why you have all these people defending the things, because they are ripping people off with them.

Man, I want a new car, what should I get? Oh man, you have to get a 1999 Kia, they are the best. The Pi is the 1999 Kia of emulation. Slow, it doesn't work very well, even though it doesn't cost much it still isn't worth it, and everyone will secretly be laughing at you when they see it.

#5. There is nothing worse for emulation that you can buy new today that anyone is actually using.

#6. Any X86 computer built in the 21st century that has at least 1GB of ram is better than a pi.

errr you do know playstation 4 runs on Unix right?

Yeah, it is a BSD fork isn't it? Probably has countless professional man hours put into making it good for gaming too, from what I understand it has its own api's that seem to be designed so that developers familiar with DirectX can easily develop for the PS4. Take #4 out if it bothers you that much, it doesn't change anything.
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opt2not

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2018, 03:22:53 pm »
Yet again, paigeoliver is right on the money.

Locke141

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2018, 03:41:00 pm »
Yet again, paigeoliver is right on the money.

Except he sounds like a zealot yelling that he is one one true path, no offense paigeoliver.

1: Yes today, out site of power consumption, a full PC is better in almost every way.
2: How cares, there are still use cases for a Pi.
3:And must importantly, you can chary pick particular exemptions, but Unix baste operating systems (BST, LINUX, MacOS) are all generally much better then windows in every way.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 03:43:32 pm by Locke141 »

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2018, 04:01:02 pm »
Yet again, paigeoliver is right on the money.

 :applaud:

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2018, 04:19:13 pm »
How is it "not a good platform"?  It's a computer, no different than any other computer.

#1. It is terribly under-powered compared to the average computer.

#2. They use an ARM processor, which means you can pretty much throw 20+ years of existing x86 emulator development out the window.

#3. When X86 emulator code is ported to ARM it tends to take about 3 times as many clock cycles per frame than the same code on X86.

#4. Unix based operating systems are far from ideal for gaming. All the real gaming and emulator development is done on Windows.

However it is really easy to copy your configuration over and rip people off selling your pi powered emulation systems, and THAT is the main reason why you have all these people defending the things, because they are ripping people off with them.

Man, I want a new car, what should I get? Oh man, you have to get a 1999 Kia, they are the best. The Pi is the 1999 Kia of emulation. Slow, it doesn't work very well, even though it doesn't cost much it still isn't worth it, and everyone will secretly be laughing at you when they see it.

#5. There is nothing worse for emulation that you can buy new today that anyone is actually using.

#6. Any X86 computer built in the 21st century that has at least 1GB of ram is better than a pi.

errr you do know playstation 4 runs on Unix right?

Yeah, it is a BSD fork isn't it? Probably has countless professional man hours put into making it good for gaming too, from what I understand it has its own api's that seem to be designed so that developers familiar with DirectX can easily develop for the PS4. Take #4 out if it bothers you that much, it doesn't change anything.

Yes it does.
It means you are only intellectually dishonest with your RPI rant on 4 things.
#1 & #6 are basically the same rant.

want to know how I know you've never actually used a raspberry pi?






Osirus23

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2018, 04:40:53 pm »
Still waiting to hear what OP has to do with Raspberry Pi.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2018, 05:01:40 pm »
Yes it does.
It means you are only intellectually dishonest with your RPI rant on 4 things.
#1 & #6 are basically the same rant.

want to know how I know you've never actually used a raspberry pi?
Well I've used and still own a pi, loaded with Nacho's image and I can say from experience and playtesting that paige is still correct in his assessment.
These days my pi just sits collecting dust. I'm planning on using it for my netboot Naomi... it's the only use I can see it being worth it. Emulation is absolutely atrocious on it.


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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2018, 05:53:30 pm »
You Pi haters are the worst. Video games are great with pi. I prefer chocolate to raspberry though.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2018, 05:56:10 pm »
Every gamer at Zapcon went running when the Pi truck showed up. It was awesome.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2018, 07:07:27 pm »
How is it "not a good platform"?  It's a computer, no different than any other computer.

#1. It is terribly under-powered compared to the average computer.

#2. They use an ARM processor, which means you can pretty much throw 20+ years of existing x86 emulator development out the window.

#3. When X86 emulator code is ported to ARM it tends to take about 3 times as many clock cycles per frame than the same code on X86.

#4. Unix based operating systems are far from ideal for gaming. All the real gaming and emulator development is done on Windows.

However it is really easy to copy your configuration over and rip people off selling your pi powered emulation systems, and THAT is the main reason why you have all these people defending the things, because they are ripping people off with them.

Man, I want a new car, what should I get? Oh man, you have to get a 1999 Kia, they are the best. The Pi is the 1999 Kia of emulation. Slow, it doesn't work very well, even though it doesn't cost much it still isn't worth it, and everyone will secretly be laughing at you when they see it.

#5. There is nothing worse for emulation that you can buy new today that anyone is actually using.

#6. Any X86 computer built in the 21st century that has at least 1GB of ram is better than a pi.

errr you do know playstation 4 runs on Unix right?

Indeed. And Nintendo (who know a thing or two about gaming) built their (S)NES Mini units around an ARM based SOC running Linux, which is considerably less powerful than a Pi, but still capable of emulating most games from the 2D era with ease.

Points 2 to 4 of Paige's post are complete nonsense.

Point 6 also sounds highly dubious to me. But it's impossible to prove definitively either way given how many variables are involved, and how few people are actually still running 18 year old PCs.

Paige's comments have actually got me wondering whether a lot of the Pi hatred stems from the fact that it runs Linux, and many people are extremely reluctant to step outside of their Windows comfort zone.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." - Samuel Johnson

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2018, 07:11:56 pm »
You Pi haters are the worst. Video games are great with pi. I prefer chocolate to raspberry though.





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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2018, 07:24:23 pm »
Yes it does.
It means you are only intellectually dishonest with your RPI rant on 4 things.
#1 & #6 are basically the same rant.

want to know how I know you've never actually used a raspberry pi?
Well I've used and still own a pi, loaded with Nacho's image and I can say from experience and playtesting that paige is still correct in his assessment.
These days my pi just sits collecting dust. I'm planning on using it for my netboot Naomi... it's the only use I can see it being worth it. Emulation is absolutely atrocious on it.
Oh, he's 100% right when he says an rpi can't compare to a desktop PC.
As a desktop PC. well no duh.

But it's been proven to be a very capable emulation device so he's spreading misinformation.
there are multiple dedicated forums, blogs, and even video's on youtube showing the rpi emulating most 2d games just fine.
3d games of course wont work but they won't work on any 21st century 1gb pc or a free PC someone has in their basement/closet either so I have no idea what you stand to gain in that category.

The notion that the emulators on the rpi are just compiled versions of the i386 emulators without any optimization for arm is laughable also.

I don't know who nacho is but i've got multiple RPI's running right now playing 2d games without any issues.
RPI2:
NES
SNES rpi3. very few issues.
I've tested sega CD & 32x on an rpi3 and saw no issues playing the games.
I have Mame 4 way classics and trackball games on an rpi2 i'm testing now and not seeing a lot of issues. even golden tee 3d runs good.
the above are using retropie.

Rpi3:which runs 95% of the games in the no friller lists.
that's raspbian and I compiled attract mode and advmame myself plus it's outputting 240p to a crt TV.
of course the 3d games don't work and golden axe the dual due to the only 1gb of ram but it doesn't have me reaching for an old core2duo i have on the shelf gathering dust.

so why in the world would someone use a full PC, even a free PC to emulate something an RPI can emulate?
Less heat
less noise
less power
no moving parts to go bad (cpu fan,hard drive, psu fan).
GPIO for led control and rotating monitors if you are into that.

the rpi isn't going away and the following is just getting bigger when it comes to emulation.
Why?
Because it works.


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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2018, 07:27:05 pm »
Yes it does.
It means you are only intellectually dishonest with your RPI rant on 4 things.
#1 & #6 are basically the same rant.

want to know how I know you've never actually used a raspberry pi?
Well I've used and still own a pi, loaded with Nacho's image and I can say from experience and playtesting that paige is still correct in his assessment.
These days my pi just sits collecting dust. I'm planning on using it for my netboot Naomi... it's the only use I can see it being worth it. Emulation is absolutely atrocious on it.
Oh, he's 100% right when he says an rpi can't compare to a desktop PC.
As a desktop PC. well no duh.

But it's been proven to be a very capable emulation device so he's spreading misinformation.
there are multiple dedicated forums, blogs, and even video's on youtube showing the rpi emulating most 2d games just fine.
3d games of course wont work but they won't work on any 21st century 1gb pc or a free PC someone has in their basement/closet either so I have no idea what you stand to gain in that category.

The notion that the emulators on the rpi are just compiled versions of the i386 emulators without any optimization for arm is laughable also.

I don't know who nacho is but i've got multiple RPI's running right now playing 2d games without any issues.
RPI2:
NES
SNES rpi3. very few issues.
I've tested sega CD & 32x on an rpi3 and saw no issues playing the games.
I have Mame 4 way classics and trackball games on an rpi2 i'm testing now and not seeing a lot of issues. even golden tee 3d runs good.
the above are using retropie.

Rpi3:which runs 95% of the games in the no friller lists.
that's raspbian and I compiled attract mode and advmame myself plus it's outputting 240p to a crt TV.
of course the 3d games don't work and golden axe the dual due to the only 1gb of ram but it doesn't have me reaching for an old core2duo i have on the shelf gathering dust.

so why in the world would someone use a full PC, even a free PC to emulate something an RPI can emulate?
Less heat
less noise
less power
no moving parts to go bad (cpu fan,hard drive, psu fan).
GPIO for led control and rotating monitors if you are into that.

the rpi isn't going away and the following is just getting bigger when it comes to emulation.
Why?
Because it works.

Bang on.

opt2not

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2018, 07:49:06 pm »
Yes it does.
It means you are only intellectually dishonest with your RPI rant on 4 things.
#1 & #6 are basically the same rant.

want to know how I know you've never actually used a raspberry pi?
Well I've used and still own a pi, loaded with Nacho's image and I can say from experience and playtesting that paige is still correct in his assessment.
These days my pi just sits collecting dust. I'm planning on using it for my netboot Naomi... it's the only use I can see it being worth it. Emulation is absolutely atrocious on it.
Oh, he's 100% right when he says an rpi can't compare to a desktop PC.
As a desktop PC. well no duh.

But it's been proven to be a very capable emulation device so he's spreading misinformation.
there are multiple dedicated forums, blogs, and even video's on youtube showing the rpi emulating most 2d games just fine.
3d games of course wont work but they won't work on any 21st century 1gb pc or a free PC someone has in their basement/closet either so I have no idea what you stand to gain in that category.

The notion that the emulators on the rpi are just compiled versions of the i386 emulators without any optimization for arm is laughable also.

I don't know who nacho is but i've got multiple RPI's running right now playing 2d games without any issues.
RPI2:
NES
SNES rpi3. very few issues.
I've tested sega CD & 32x on an rpi3 and saw no issues playing the games.
I have Mame 4 way classics and trackball games on an rpi2 i'm testing now and not seeing a lot of issues. even golden tee 3d runs good.
the above are using retropie.

Rpi3:which runs 95% of the games in the no friller lists.
that's raspbian and I compiled attract mode and advmame myself plus it's outputting 240p to a crt TV.
of course the 3d games don't work and golden axe the dual due to the only 1gb of ram but it doesn't have me reaching for an old core2duo i have on the shelf gathering dust.

so why in the world would someone use a full PC, even a free PC to emulate something an RPI can emulate?
Less heat
less noise
less power
no moving parts to go bad (cpu fan,hard drive, psu fan).
GPIO for led control and rotating monitors if you are into that.

the rpi isn't going away and the following is just getting bigger when it comes to emulation.
Why?
Because it works.

Lets add to the list of what the Pi has as well:

- Input lag:  You have to really tweak with the settings to get something somewhat playable, but even then it's not great compare to a PC

- ---smurfy--- bluetooth:  If you want to have anything worth using with a Pi, you have to buy a usb bluetooth and use that instead of the built-in low powered bluetooth. Otherwise you will experience compatibility issues and drop-outs.

- No power switch:  yeah, that sucks. You can buy an add-on I guess, but that's just another thing (yet something so stupidly simple that should have been part of the hardware to begin with), to deal with in setting this up.

- Possibility of corruption: if you power-down while the pi is writing, there is a high chance you will corrupt your microSD file system.

- Higher cost:  At the end of the day, after buying a pi, an controls interface board(s), a microSD, a video adapter (if you're going with a non-widescreen hdmi TV/Monitor), you're costing yourself just as much as a low-end PC that can do emulation better!

- Ridicule for being labeled a filthy casual.  Yes, pi's aren't going anywhere...neither am I. I will still make fun of you trendy casuals for this sham of hardware. 

You don't notice the lag, or aren't bothered by it?  You're a casual. 
You've never corrupted your microSD card?  Maybe because you haven't put up any high scores for it to record...aka, you're a casual.
You play all your retro games on a widescreeen LCD?  You are a casual.
Saying that "it works" is the bare minimum for you to think it's great. You're most definitely a filthy casual.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2018, 08:54:15 pm »
Yes it does.
It means you are only intellectually dishonest with your RPI rant on 4 things.
#1 & #6 are basically the same rant.

want to know how I know you've never actually used a raspberry pi?
Well I've used and still own a pi, loaded with Nacho's image and I can say from experience and playtesting that paige is still correct in his assessment.
These days my pi just sits collecting dust. I'm planning on using it for my netboot Naomi... it's the only use I can see it being worth it. Emulation is absolutely atrocious on it.
Oh, he's 100% right when he says an rpi can't compare to a desktop PC.
As a desktop PC. well no duh.

But it's been proven to be a very capable emulation device so he's spreading misinformation.
there are multiple dedicated forums, blogs, and even video's on youtube showing the rpi emulating most 2d games just fine.
3d games of course wont work but they won't work on any 21st century 1gb pc or a free PC someone has in their basement/closet either so I have no idea what you stand to gain in that category.

The notion that the emulators on the rpi are just compiled versions of the i386 emulators without any optimization for arm is laughable also.

I don't know who nacho is but i've got multiple RPI's running right now playing 2d games without any issues.
RPI2:
NES
SNES rpi3. very few issues.
I've tested sega CD & 32x on an rpi3 and saw no issues playing the games.
I have Mame 4 way classics and trackball games on an rpi2 i'm testing now and not seeing a lot of issues. even golden tee 3d runs good.
the above are using retropie.

Rpi3:which runs 95% of the games in the no friller lists.
that's raspbian and I compiled attract mode and advmame myself plus it's outputting 240p to a crt TV.
of course the 3d games don't work and golden axe the dual due to the only 1gb of ram but it doesn't have me reaching for an old core2duo i have on the shelf gathering dust.

so why in the world would someone use a full PC, even a free PC to emulate something an RPI can emulate?
Less heat
less noise
less power
no moving parts to go bad (cpu fan,hard drive, psu fan).
GPIO for led control and rotating monitors if you are into that.

the rpi isn't going away and the following is just getting bigger when it comes to emulation.
Why?
Because it works.

Lets add to the list of what the Pi has as well:

- Input lag:  You have to really tweak with the settings to get something somewhat playable, but even then it's not great compare to a PC

- ---smurfy--- bluetooth:  If you want to have anything worth using with a Pi, you have to buy a usb bluetooth and use that instead of the built-in low powered bluetooth. Otherwise you will experience compatibility issues and drop-outs.

- No power switch:  yeah, that sucks. You can buy an add-on I guess, but that's just another thing (yet something so stupidly simple that should have been part of the hardware to begin with), to deal with in setting this up.

- Possibility of corruption: if you power-down while the pi is writing, there is a high chance you will corrupt your microSD file system.

- Higher cost:  At the end of the day, after buying a pi, an controls interface board(s), a microSD, a video adapter (if you're going with a non-widescreen hdmi TV/Monitor), you're costing yourself just as much as a low-end PC that can do emulation better!

- Ridicule for being labeled a filthy casual.  Yes, pi's aren't going anywhere...neither am I. I will still make fun of you trendy casuals for this sham of hardware. 

You don't notice the lag, or aren't bothered by it?  You're a casual. 
You've never corrupted your microSD card?  Maybe because you haven't put up any high scores for it to record...aka, you're a casual.
You play all your retro games on a widescreeen LCD?  You are a casual.
Saying that "it works" is the bare minimum for you to think it's great. You're most definitely a filthy casual.

LOL!
elitism, condensation, and name calling.

White flag accepted.




opt2not

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2018, 09:07:38 pm »
LOL!
elitism, condensation, and name calling.

White flag accepted.



Donít know the difference between condescension and condensation? Youíre a casual.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 09:12:33 pm by opt2not »

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2018, 09:43:17 pm »
 :laugh2:

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2018, 09:52:36 pm »
LOL!
elitism, condensation, and name calling.

White flag accepted.



Donít know the difference between condescension and condensation? Youíre a casual.

When you have nothing left but to point spealling and grammer mistokes/autokorrect you are basikally dun.
have gud nite.

LOL!


« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 09:56:26 pm by nitrogen_widget »

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2018, 10:12:41 pm »
I saw opt2not put up obscene scores on multiple arcade games. If he says the lag is an issue, it would be wise to pay attention.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2018, 10:43:29 pm »
And you didnít see me do the jump-shot in Fire Escape. It was awesome. No lag playing that game! :lol

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2018, 10:46:44 pm »
Consoles emulate on Pi better because they have written console emulators specifically for the ARM processor on Linux. A functional 2D console emulator is downright trivial compared to something like Mame. Most of those old console emulators we loved 20 years ago were part time projects of a single developer. But why would you want to emulate a console on a Pi when whatever you are accessing this forum from would be better?


Look at me in my Kia, aren't I cool? Best car you can buy, uses the same gas as real cars, but it makes less noise. Fully capable of transporting Taylor Swift, and I don't notice any lag in the steering or brakes.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2018, 10:54:16 pm »
And you didnít see me do the jump-shot in Fire Escape. It was awesome. No lag playing that game! [emoji38]
Scoreboard

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2018, 11:07:48 pm »
I don't get why paige and op fear linux so much.
From what I've seen in this thread they would fit in nicely over at some of the linux forums i've been to.



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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2018, 11:34:59 pm »
Scoreboard
Lol you better frame that one Mike! :)

I don't get why paige and op fear linux so much.
From what I've seen in this thread they would fit in nicely over at some of the linux forums i've been to.
Donít know what that means, but I donít fear Linux. Iíve got a Linux box running a small render farm here at home.

No, Iím just trying to be as obnoxious as the pi fans are, and Iíve seemed to have reached that goal. :lol

Piís still suck.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2018, 06:55:43 am »
Scoreboard
Lol you better frame that one Mike! :)

I don't get why paige and op fear linux so much.
From what I've seen in this thread they would fit in nicely over at some of the linux forums i've been to.
Donít know what that means, but I donít fear Linux. Iíve got a Linux box running a small render farm here at home.

No, Iím just trying to be as obnoxious as the pi fans are, and Iíve seemed to have reached that goal. :lol

Piís still suck.

obnoxious?
nah.
I find the effort people go to just to hate on the pi funny.

Hey, you should make that render farm out of the new Pi 3's.




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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2018, 10:25:20 am »
I use a pc for my mane MAME setup and Have a R-pi running retro pi as well. They are both fine fine for the different task I use them for.

If people can beat punchout with the nestopea core then the R-pi is fine for thousands of games.

Not everyone but It does seem that a lot of people here are just dissmisive if it means not using Windows.



« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 10:27:34 am by Locke141 »

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2018, 11:29:17 am »

I just have one question regarding the original topic of this thread.  How is handling input faster than the original hardware allowed, not considered to be a "cheat"?  The original programmers knew full well what the limitations were in the hardware they were developing for, and likely did things in the design differently than they normally would have, if these 1 frame input delays did not exist. And if using these modified routines provides some sort of advantage while playing, which seems to be the claim, how is this not considered to be cheating at the game?

Pi's are all right.  I've been amazed when seeing what those little things can do, like being a better Amiga than a full blown original machine with an expensive modern accelerator, and being able to emulate a Mac under the Amiga emulator, with the Mac emulation being faster than an original Mac :)  That said, mine is collecting dust.  I have too many old PCs, and too little time to go too far down the "Linux rabbit hole."  If you already have better hardware just laying around doing nothing, dealing with the Pi just seems like hacking for hacking's sake.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2018, 12:01:06 pm »
Just to be clear, I have no Linux hate at all. I used to dual boot everything back in the days when Linux was actually a nightmare to set up. Although my true love was BeOS. Used to have both a Be laptop and desktop.
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2018, 01:07:11 pm »


I agree, the Pi's are alright. At least the pi 3b, older ones are a bit too ---smurfy--- for my standards. Great for console games. Its not gonna be perfect, played castlevania 3 yesterday and I noticed a few odd artifacts. Tossed a pi in the van for a 10 hour road trip a few weeks ago and all three of my kids were quiet the whole time.

Hell, the pi plays dreamcast soul calibur pretty well. That is impressive. N64 and Jaguar are a complete no-goi. If you are gonna accept that emulation is not gonna be perfect, and some things are gonna play better than others, its a pretty good party machine, or for specialty projects.

I just would still recommend something more powerful for a real mame cab. maybe ill change my tune even more when the pi4 comes out in a year or two.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 01:13:39 pm by Vigo »

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2018, 03:48:02 pm »
Bloated premade images loaded with chips&salsa being upscaled and waiting for sync along with other post video processing through hdmi is a sure fire way to a crappy experience.


good day.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2018, 06:23:49 pm »
Still waiting for someone to get Stepmania going 100% on a Pi.  Once someone does that, Iím leaving my pads active 24/7.


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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2018, 10:01:53 pm »
Still waiting for someone to get Stepmania going 100% on a Pi.  Once someone does that, Iím leaving my pads active 24/7.

Would be sweet. I been testing a setup on some HP computers at work with a cheep pad. Been thinking about buying 19 more and doing a PE class with Stepmania. If it works out I may do donors chose project next year for two nice pads.

To be clear, I don't use a a R-pi as my mane emulate setup. But form experience, there are lots of use cases where it does fine. I like a lot of old Geneses, NES, SNES, particularly RPGs. It is totally fine for most of the games I have tried on it using the faster "core" (emulator) IE Nestopea is fare superior to the default option.       

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2018, 02:22:30 am »
For the love of God, keep computers out of PE class.

Locke141

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2018, 06:55:13 am »
It would be added on to the ends of the dance unit. My students live in a tuff barber hood and many are not aloud to really play out side. This is at least an activity they could do in side.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2018, 07:42:57 am »
If they are not aloud to play outside in their free time, why would you coop them up inside during PE class?

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2018, 10:09:55 am »
Hey Locke, p.m. me your email address. As the Technology Integration Specialist at the school I work at, Iíve got a great resource for teachers on how they can integrate technology into PE and Health classes in ways that truly stimulate physical activity.
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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2018, 10:11:12 am »
If they are not aloud to play outside in their free time, why would you coop them up inside during PE class?

Apparently, they need to be quiet as well :)

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2018, 10:21:41 am »
It would be added on to the ends of the dance unit. My students live in a tuff barber hood and many are not aloud to really play out side. This is at least an activity they could do in side.


Oops. I made a spelling error. I was reading this post while typing mine. My brain didn't make the proper correction.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 10:29:14 am by Mike A »

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2018, 10:30:38 am »
Dude, I heard those barbers can be vicious. Be warned.

;)
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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2018, 11:11:22 am »
Thanks Yots, PM sent.

MikeA I get what your saying and we do go out side. Keep in mind that we are in NYC and it does get to cool, hot, and or wet to go out on some days.


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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2018, 11:28:07 am »
I understand that. I just feel that kids are bombarded by technology 24/7. Give them an hour a day where they are not staring at a video display of some kind.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #60 on: May 01, 2018, 12:01:43 pm »
I understand that. I just feel that kids are bombarded by technology 24/7. Give them an hour a day where they are not staring at a video display of some kind.

I agree. Are we really to the point where we can't get students to perform physical activity without some kind of video game or other electronic stimulus?

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #61 on: May 01, 2018, 12:25:03 pm »
Keep in mind that I have each class twice a week and Iím only talking about adding  a 3 lesson exstention to a dance unit.

Also, my school has very little computers. To the point where I have been fundraising endlessly to add R-pi computer lads to each class room. Iím now up to 7 classroom labs and 3 more in the fundraising stage. My students live in poverty and not all on computers all day.

I have a soft spot for the Raspberry foundation. With out them my cloud funded labs would not be possible.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #62 on: May 01, 2018, 02:24:19 pm »
Thereís nothing wrong with tapping into their personal technology to help them get active. I lost like 40 lbs BITD using the Wii. Keep on keeping on, Locke!
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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #63 on: May 01, 2018, 03:48:19 pm »
I understand that. I just feel that kids are bombarded by technology 24/7. Give them an hour a day where they are not staring at a video display of some kind.

He's a PE teacher in Brooklyn.
the fact a school has a PE teacher in that neck of the woods is significant in itself.
Most City schools that way don't even have an outside the kids can use for PE.
Most places don't even have an inside for PE.
it's pretty bad.

so having them "bust a move" in a class room is not a bad idea at all.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #64 on: May 01, 2018, 04:17:52 pm »
Youíd think they would get enough exercise running from the cops. Lol I kid!

pbj

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #65 on: May 01, 2018, 05:04:58 pm »
Hard to run with a cell phone in your hand and 9 bullets in your back.


Locke141

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #66 on: May 01, 2018, 07:26:40 pm »
Sorry but canít participate in a thread once people start joking that my students are criminals and or about to be shooting.

I know your joking and mean then no harm but I need to walk away.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 07:37:42 pm by Locke141 »

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #67 on: May 01, 2018, 07:37:19 pm »
Sorry but canít participate in a thread once people start joking that my students as criminals and or about shooting them.

I know your joking and mean then no harm but I need to walk away.

Donít forget to PM me your email address, I havenít gotten it yet and I have that resource for you.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

Osirus23

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #68 on: May 01, 2018, 08:50:56 pm »
Sorry but canít participate in a thread once people start joking that my students are criminals and or about to be shooting.

I know your joking and mean then no harm but I need to walk away.

Guess this means we'll never find out what the original topic had to do with Raspberry Pi.

SNAAKE

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #69 on: May 06, 2018, 10:23:39 pm »
Pi's are so easy to work with... N64 still sucks though. I dont do alot of Hyperspin these days, might even switch to attract mode for PC.
odroid xu4 n64 emulation is really good. it has retropie and everything. almost all n64 games run full speed.

SNAAKE

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #70 on: May 06, 2018, 10:30:36 pm »
also I dont really notice input lag on p.

not sure if I am casual :dunno I mean I won multiple street fighter tournaments in person and online :burgerking:

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #71 on: May 07, 2018, 11:57:46 pm »
Just to be clear, I have no Linux hate at all.
Some of my best friends are Linux!
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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #72 on: May 08, 2018, 12:09:23 am »
Hell, the pi plays dreamcast soul calibur pretty well...
With which emulator? I've had lousy luck with Dreamcast emulators on Linux.
Quote
N64 and Jaguar are a complete no-go
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...but IIRC, Mupen 64 Plus wasn't bad in Linux in general, but maybe you're just talking about the pi.
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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2018, 01:53:00 pm »
I've been away for a while and the Rpi3 has me thinking of starting a new (small) project very soon.  Does it not run MAME well?  I'm only interested in it for that application.  I want to boot straight to a game list for MAME only.  Probably a mix of 4-way and 8-way classics.  SFIII/SFA3 would be the beefiest games I'd want to run but if I can't no big deal. 

Is the Rpi3 not good for this type of project?  What am I missing?

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2018, 04:46:00 pm »
It can run the games well enough. You are dealing with an old revision of MAME and the inability to do some things that a pc can do well. It depends on your standards that you expect out of a pi.

The pi is so cheap, just buy a board and try it out for yourself before building anything else. The MAME version it runs best is like .78


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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2018, 05:08:05 pm »
Consoles emulate on Pi better because they have written console emulators specifically for the ARM processor on Linux. A functional 2D console emulator is downright trivial compared to something like Mame. Most of those old console emulators we loved 20 years ago were part time projects of a single developer. But why would you want to emulate a console on a Pi when whatever you are accessing this forum from would be better?


Look at me in my Kia, aren't I cool? Best car you can buy, uses the same gas as real cars, but it makes less noise. Fully capable of transporting Taylor Swift, and I don't notice any lag in the steering or brakes.

Proper console emulation is actually a lot more difficult than any single arcade driver in MAME.  Individual pieces of arcade hardware were typically under utilized, and only ran a handful of games so you have a lot of room for bad emulation without it being immediately obvious.  This is why a lot of the console drivers in MAME don't have the best compatibility rates yet, doing it properly is hard.

The Pi appears to run console stuff well because people are only really testing it and developing it against the most common cases, in reality most of the emulators aren't that good at all, it's all an illusion.

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Re: R-Pi haters and game originalist, get your hat on.
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2018, 09:22:37 pm »
I didn't mean to imply that a console emulator is easier than writing a single Mame driver, I meant a console emulator is easier than writing something like Mame (the whole thing).

Consoles emulate on Pi better because they have written console emulators specifically for the ARM processor on Linux. A functional 2D console emulator is downright trivial compared to something like Mame. Most of those old console emulators we loved 20 years ago were part time projects of a single developer. But why would you want to emulate a console on a Pi when whatever you are accessing this forum from would be better?


Look at me in my Kia, aren't I cool? Best car you can buy, uses the same gas as real cars, but it makes less noise. Fully capable of transporting Taylor Swift, and I don't notice any lag in the steering or brakes.

Proper console emulation is actually a lot more difficult than any single arcade driver in MAME.  Individual pieces of arcade hardware were typically under utilized, and only ran a handful of games so you have a lot of room for bad emulation without it being immediately obvious.  This is why a lot of the console drivers in MAME don't have the best compatibility rates yet, doing it properly is hard.

The Pi appears to run console stuff well because people are only really testing it and developing it against the most common cases, in reality most of the emulators aren't that good at all, it's all an illusion.
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

  
 

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