Golf control panel...should I???

[jr76]

I am in the final stages of planning and this small questino actually has a huge impact on my design. One of the top reasons I want a cab is for golf games. However, I know that PC golf games (Tiger Woods, PGA Tour, Links) won't play like Golden Tee. When you swing in the PC games, it's designed for a mouse, it's all about being smooth in the swing and not pausing long at the top. I've never played any of the PC gold games with a trackball.

For those of you that have played PC golf games with a trackball, is it any fun or is it just too dificult?

If the games do play well, is a dedicated golf panel worth it? I can't think of a design that would keep plenty of room around the trackball and not be cluttered. If it is worth it, what buttons should be included? Ie...club up, club down, aim left, etc. I'm sure the big three (Links, Tiger, PGA Tour) don't use the same hotkeys so I'd have to right some batch files to reprogram wichever encoder I go with, but I don't even think there are hot keys to club up, I think you have to use the mouse (trackball) to pick a club, that's why I don't know what buttons to include.

On a side note...how powerful of a PC is needed to play the newest golf games with all extras turned on?

Thanks again for helping me out!

[zaphod]

Tiger Woods is fantastic with a trackball!  Personally, I think that is the only way to play it.

I have no problem running with a 1.6Ghz machine with 512RAM.  I don't have experience with anything slower.  Maybe someone else here has.

As far as a dedicated panel, you may not want to if you play a lot of other games.  Take a good look at the control panels on the cabs on the examples page.  There are plenty of good, uncluttered designs out there you may want to consider before going dedicated.  (Not that there's anything wrong with a dedicated golf CP )

[jr76]

So there are no issues playing Tiger with a trackball??? Sweet!!!

I have looked at a ton of examples from the pages...have I mentioned I LOVE THIS SITE?!?! I haven't found one I quite like as far as golf games go. It seems that the majority have buttons or joysticks either in front of their trackball or just to the side. I measured a Golden Tee panel, I don't have the measurements on me, but I think there was at least seven inches of space between the trackball and any button. This space is a needed for me because I don't alway "slam" the ball. I usually use the ball with my thumbs having my fingers spread out to the front. This creates about a 45 degree angle with my arms...in other words, I need some elbow room!

[IG-88]

Cool! A fellow golf game lover. You're right in saying that there isn't much on golf gaming here, but there is more than you'll find anywhere else.

I have had it in the back of my head to build a tabletop golf only (well, primarily) machine. Make sure you post back with your results.

In the meantime have you seen this:
http://info.friendlysoftware.com/caddyprod/scripts/worldtours/game/main.php3?page=game

It's free! Can't beat that!

[crashwg]

IG-88, is that golf game CP friendly?  How many controls do you need to play it?

[zaphod]

Happ has a nice pic of the GT CP.  No dimensions, though.

http://www.happcontrols.com/amusement/acesor/900242100.htm

I know I've seen a couple examples of what you may like.  I'll try to find them.

[jr76]

I want to make sure that you guys realize I wasn't being sarcastic or complaining at all, I really do love this site! I just don't think I've found any good golf control panels because I don't think that many people build a cab with golf in mind first. I don't really want to create multiple panels, but will if needed. I've been looking over my manuals and there are a ton of hot keys for golf games, just gotta play them and figure out wich ones to include. M for mulligan is a must!

Another question, I know you can program encoders to emulate any key on the keyboard, can you program them to do macros or multi keys? For example, in PGA Tour 2000, Shift+R will rotate the golfer back to the flag. Could I program Shift+R? And a little more complex, could a program Alt+V then T, kind of like programming a cell phone to dial a number, pause a second, then input an extension, it would be Alt+V,pause,T.

Thanks everyone for your help! I will be paying back best I can with a detailed website as soon as I get my cab started...just need money

[hulkster]

I don't think that many people build a cab with golf in mind first.

well im building a 4 player cp and im getting the trackball just for golden tee pc, thats really the only time ill use it cept for the occasional game of marble madness.  but that was my main purpose for it.  but i never thought about tiger woods!!!  sweet.  great idea.  i know what you are saying about having your arms out wide.  i just now thought about that...cuz when im at the bar or something playing golden tee, i use that technique when putting!  hopefully ill have enough room.

[zaphod]

My panel isn't optimal for Tiger (a 4 way is at the 11 o'clock position) but you learn to adjust your swing a bit.  However, if you know you plan to play a lot of golf, plan to give yourself plenty of space from joysticks.  Buttons tend not to be a problem.  Also, you may want to bring the TB as far forward (away from the glass) as you can.  I've had buddies smack the glass before.  Only once each, though, as it smarts quite a bit.

[NoOne=NBA=]

You just need to build the CP a little deeper, if golf is a big priority.

Before I opted to go modular, my swappable trackball CP was going to have a Golden Tee theme, with 3 buttons per side.
Three buttons will let you do the Left/Right/Start thing for Golden Tee, but will also let you play just about any trackball game out there.

It sounds like you may need to add a few buttons to support PC golf games, but a shiftable encoder, should keep the actual number of buttons to half of what you need.
I remember something about one of the encoders supporting macros, or supporting macros soon; but can't remember which one.

[SirPoonga]

I like PGA Tour because it is a little mroe sensitive to mouse movement.  It's much harder to hit a straight ball than in Tiger Woods, especially ona  tball.  It's like my real life game

[IG-88]

IG-88, is that golf game CP friendly?  How many controls do you need to play it?

Don't know yet, I haven't had a chance to play it on my CP. Will try it out soon tho  

[hulkster]

You just need to build the CP a little deeper, if golf is a big priority.

Before I opted to go modular, my swappable trackball CP was going to have a Golden Tee theme, with 3 buttons per side.
Three buttons will let you do the Left/Right/Start thing for Golden Tee, but will also let you play just about any trackball game out there.

It sounds like you may need to add a few buttons to support PC golf games, but a shiftable encoder, should keep the actual number of buttons to half of what you need.
I remember something about one of the encoders supporting macros, or supporting macros soon; but can't remember which one.

okay, im close to drilling holes for my trackball buttons, but i only have 2 at the moment.  should i use 3??

[NoOne=NBA=]

My reply would be.....Do Ya Wanna?

You'd be better off to ask yourself what you should do in this case, than to ask us.
From the sounds of it, this is something you'd really like to do.
You truthfully don't need input, or approval, from us to make this decision.
As long as whatever YOU want to do doesn't involve hacking a classic cab to pieces, we're all for it.
Hack a DDR pad to Space Invaders....we'd LOVE that...provided you posted videos.

If you follow your heart, and don't destroy the history, it's all good.

[jr76]

Thanks for the input all! Hearing that the golf games are good with the trackball is helping me to make my decision. I will probably be going with a dedicated golf panel if I can't come up with a good layout that provides plenty of room.

No worries about smacking glass, I'm building a showcase style cab.

No worries about destroying history, this is my first cab so I don't plan on destroying a classic. I do like classic games, but am more into the modern stuff.

Hmmm...DDR and space invaders, that could be interesting!

I don't think I want to use the shift function with the emulators. I agree it cuts down on buttons and that's great. But I tend to be impatient when I'm gaming, if my friends kept asking, "Which buttons do I hit?" I'd go nuts. So the more simple for everyone to play, the better. Having said that, it makes for a tough decision concerning swappable panels. If I go with swappables, I could see me being lazy and never wanting to switch them out.

PGA 2000 would take the most buttons by far. Just the hot-keys for choosing a club could be as many as 21. but probably 14. Remember, that's just to choose clubs! In Tiger there are only 2 hot-keys to choose clubs, clb up and club down. I like Golden Tee, but it just doesn't compare to Tiger, Links, and PGA Tour.

[hulkster]

hey im building a showcase cab too!

[IG-88]

PGA 2000 would take the most buttons by far. Just the hot-keys for choosing a club could be as many as 21. but probably 14. Remember, that's just to choose clubs! In Tiger there are only 2 hot-keys to choose clubs, clb up and club down. I like Golden Tee, but it just doesn't compare to Tiger, Links, and PGA Tour.

How 'bout a small keypad/board mounted on your CP? You could probably make your own keypad/board overlay describing the hot keys to lay right over the top of it.

[hulkster]

i was just thinking about this.....why not just map the other buttons on your cp as your trackball buttons?  i mean, you really dont need extra buttons, just map the 1st player controls to it.  that should work shouldnt it?

[zaphod]

If you are making a dedicated panel and want to idiot-proof it for PGA2000, could you not add a clumping of smaller, square buttons (such as http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/57330001.htm) for the club selection?  It looks as though you could fit quite a few of these in a small area.

If you want to play other games, too, Hulkster's idea works well.

[hulkster]

well i mean, if you have a 2 player control panel with a trackball, just use the buttons on player 1 and 2 right?  you dont have to map anything to an optipac correct?

[eightbit]

No problems smacking the screen or the sticks on my new panel.

26" wide and 13" deep in the center

[jr76]

Good ideas, thanks!

Mapping the other buttons...this would be the easy soultion. I could just write batch files for the emulator. However, I plan on building a 2-player cab (4-player would be cool, but I think the novelty of the 4-player games would wear off fast). I'm not sure how many buttons per player yet, let's assume 7 to accomodate Namco and NeoGeo fighters. Not including the admin buttons (I plan on hiding most of those) that is 14 total buttons. Not enough to idiot prof PGA 2000. Besides, the layout of those buttons in the typical fighter style wouldn't aid in idiot profing.

The smaller buttons. Thanks for the link, I have an idea for those that might just work. Instead of building swappable control panels, I might just build swappable button layouts. Actually, that could really be a cool idea. Haven't seen it done yet and that could be an answer to alot of peoples "How should I lay my buttons out" questions. Build a modular section on a control panel that could accomodate as many as 8 buttons. Then you could make modules for 1 button, 6 buttons, 3 buttons, whatever. In other words, the joysticks would be permanent, and far away enough to not interfere, could even use them to aim the shot. Then I could use a small button module on p1 and p2 sides....wait, p2 joystick would still be close....darn!

[markjen1]

What about entering your initial/name?  I don't know about the others, but I believe in Golden Tee, you have to enter your initials after the 1st hole.

On the actual aracde game, you do this by scrolling thru with the trackball.  

I'm not sure you can do this on the PC version...I think you have to type them in.

[jr76]

I guess all our names will be "AAA"   j/k

For that part I could always just use the keyboard. Tiger Woods has a create a player, so that would be taken care of before play.

[Ceifeirot]

eightbit:
What kind of joysticks are those? Is that a 4 to 8 way switch I see above them? How'd you do that?

Also, are they leaf or that clicky-kind?

Thanks!

[eightbit]

eightbit:
What kind of joysticks are those? Is that a 4 to 8 way switch I see above them? How'd you do that?

Also, are they leaf or that clicky-kind?

They are the prodigy sticks from http://groovygamegear.com. I love them! They switch by flipping the lever which moves a restrictor plate so they physically only move in 4 directions. Unlike many other switchables that still move in diagonals that just don't register a diagonal direction. They are tighter with a shorter throw than the joysticks that most people use like supers, ultimates and competitions but they aren't as tight or as stiff as the ultimarc t-stick. The t-stick is also a nice stick I just like the prodigy stick better. They don't click as loud as my t-stick but the t-stick now has quieter switches as an option that are also softer. I don't know how those compare to the prodigy.

They do click, leaf switch sticks are to find and I I've ever seen a switchable leaf switch stick.

[Ceifeirot]

Thanks for the reply

The hardest part of starting my MAME project I've found is with the joysticks. I can't figure out which kind to buy.

I don't think I'd like the constant clicking noises, or the feel of it. Hwo well does the quiet version of the tstick plus work? That's the one I've been thinking of getting...

I also want the ball-top one. Does anyone have experience with the jstick? It looks nice.

[eightbit]

Thanks for the reply

The hardest part of starting my MAME project I've found is with the joysticks. I can't figure out which kind to buy.

I don't think I'd like the constant clicking noises, or the feel of it. Hwo well does the quiet version of the tstick plus work? That's the one I've been thinking of getting...

I also want the ball-top one. Does anyone have experience with the jstick? It looks nice.

I don't know what the fixation on the clicking is. You are not even going to hear or notice the clicking when you get into a game. When was the last time you noticed a click when you were in the arcade and almost every game in the arcade is microswitches now and has been for a very long time. Even the old classics with leafs were probably switched out long ago.

[Ceifeirot]

Yeah you may be right.

I'm not much of an arcade gamer -- there aren't really any arcades near me, just a few things at some bowling alleys etc. so I can't really remember what types of joysticks I used. I guess I don't recall hearing the clicking noises ever, and so I thought most games used the leaf kind. But as you said it's probably because of the game's noise.

What do most fighting games use? I'm going to be optimizing my cabinet for things like street fighter etc. I'm thinking of going with the new T-Stik Plus.

[Generic Eric]

yes you should

which golf games do you intend to play?

I have

• outlaws golf, thats kinda fun.
• links 1999
• Golden Tee PC

Bad thing is that I tore apart my trackball to look at the inside and I have lost some of the pieces.

I am curious to know how the popular games perform with the trackball and which games to avoid.

[jr76]

I'd like to know which ones work well too. I have quite a few golf games, but don't have a PC good enough to run them yet (buy games when I find 'em cheap)

Part of the reason I want to know how well they work with a cab is so I know what kind of investment in a video card I'll need to make as I don't play any other games more graphic intense than golf games.

So far replies have said PGA and Tiger play well.

Games I have (haven't played any with a trackball, so if anyone has let me know how they play please!):

Tiger Woods 2003
Tiger Woods 2004
PGA Tour 2000
Outlaw Golf
Links 2003

want Golden Tee PC with addon courses

Any other good ones?

Some other games I have that may play well on a trackball:
Bowl X-Treme
Fast Lanes Bowling
Perfect Pool 3D
Mini Golf Master 2

Any others?

[Generic Eric]

Some other games I have that may play well on a trackball:
Bowl X-Treme
Fast Lanes Bowling
Perfect Pool 3D
Mini Golf Master 2

Any others?

Hyperbowl  I haven't played, but it looks cool.

[zaphod]

Links plays very nicely, too.  Mame has some excellent trackball games you may want to consider as well.  

As far as video card for the golf, I run with a Geoforce 3 card and I run at the highest settings across the board with no slowdown.  I've seen the Geoforce4s for <$50 after rebate recently, so that should be easy enough to pick up.  I believe the amount of RAM you have (someone correct me if I'm wrong) will make a larger difference than a higherend video card for what you are going to play.

[dommer]

I designed this one so that, whenever the better GT games get emulated, I'd be able to play it on my cab.  The thing is, it turned out kind of huge.

http://stormclan.servebeer.com/mame/DCP00581.JPG

[jr76]

Hyper Bowl would be fun, forgot about that one, it's a blast in the arcade!

Good to know links plays well! I didn't mention mame games but they are not forgotten!   Marble Madness is one of my all time favs!

I have been reading some of the Tiger Woods forums relative to graphics cards. It seems that the majority of people are using ATI cards, however there is a problem with the 9600 going to black using the three click method. I know the more memory a card has, the faster it will render for golf games.