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Author Topic: 2018: The year of no new innovations?  (Read 8430 times)

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Titchgamer

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2018, 03:46:03 pm »
LOL. Just give up the hobby then. Nothing new to do. Its all been done to death. Time to move on.

Not at all, Ime not into this for something new edgey or innovative.

Its been 9 years to the day that I finished my mame cabinet (popped up on facebook memories earlier lol) and I started building it over a year before that.

Since then I have built a few different cabs but all of a traditional design with the exception of a 2 screen cocktail cabinet for playing head to head 2 player games.
And my little MVS bartop which I made instead of a full size MVS which I have no room for.

Of course I have not been on this forum that long, I only really joined up when I was looking to update my cab with some Aim traks and a spinner.
Guess I was innovative with the spinner because I front mounted mine which turns out I rather like!

But the thing that keeps me coming back to here is the people, Sure I like to see builds people make even the samey samey ones.
But I like the grumpy old nerds that reside here with similar interests more.

And of course the gaming talk!

A forum is nothing without a community, We dont need loads of new innovative builds.
We just need each other (in a non gay sounding way!)

If you are bored start a thread or something.

Hell ive posted a few random threads in my time here from stupid things like the getting to know you thread to things like reporting games I think may be of interest to some like the streets of rage remake.

The 3D printer thread and the VR thread are good examples of this atm.

Vigo

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2018, 04:23:50 pm »
To be fair, there have been a few innovations that I would call "classic" that have broken out more recently.

I think there have been a few cabs recently that really pushed the boundaries with Bezel art, and connecting the art between Marquee, Bezel and control panel. That hasn't been around much since the 80's.

I also really like the migration away from PC towers for better solid PCB solutions. I think this is a plus that the hobby is getting away from its mindset that we need to be hoarding 20 year old PCs for the best experience, and part of that is accepting that we shouldn't need to have a cab with rotating monitor, 20 things on the CP, needing to 5 USB devices in order to maximize gameplay. People are generally more accepting of a cabinet that can play 1-5 games on modern hardware.

People seem more careful about audio right now. 10 years ago, everybody and their aunt was throwing in PC desktop speakers in a cab and calling it a day. I see people spend time with amp boards and tasteful speakers on their cabs.

I've noticed small renaissance in less shapely, early style cabs. The Straight "Space Invaders" style cabs are making a bit of a cool comeback. Not that this is a true innovation But since I have been a part of this hobby in 2003, Nobody was striving for this look.


Nephasth

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2018, 04:36:28 pm »
How long have you all been doing this? You should all be operators with substantial routes by now...

I spent too much restoring to put my games out in the wild! Itís enough taking them to ZapCon.

If it's got a coin slot, it was intended to be whored out.
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pbj

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2018, 04:36:47 pm »
How long have you all been doing this? You should all be operators with substantial routes by now...


 :laugh2:

Yah, okay, bro.  I'm sure everyone will set down their phones and start dropping quarters any day now.


shaolindrunkard

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2018, 04:45:12 pm »
LOL. Just give up the hobby then. Nothing new to do. Its all been done to death. Time to move on.

Not at all, Ime not into this for something new edgey or innovative.

Its been 9 years to the day that I finished my mame cabinet (popped up on facebook memories earlier lol) and I started building it over a year before that.

Since then I have built a few different cabs but all of a traditional design with the exception of a 2 screen cocktail cabinet for playing head to head 2 player games.
And my little MVS bartop which I made instead of a full size MVS which I have no room for.

Of course I have not been on this forum that long, I only really joined up when I was looking to update my cab with some Aim traks and a spinner.
Guess I was innovative with the spinner because I front mounted mine which turns out I rather like!

But the thing that keeps me coming back to here is the people, Sure I like to see builds people make even the samey samey ones.
But I like the grumpy old nerds that reside here with similar interests more.

And of course the gaming talk!

A forum is nothing without a community, We dont need loads of new innovative builds.
We just need each other (in a non gay sounding way!)

If you are bored start a thread or something.

Hell ive posted a few random threads in my time here from stupid things like the getting to know you thread to things like reporting games I think may be of interest to some like the streets of rage remake.

The 3D printer thread and the VR thread are good examples of this atm.

This is what I've been trying to say the whole time. My comment about giving up was sarcastic. I just can't believe the lack of imagination on this board sometimes.  :cheers:

Titchgamer

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2018, 04:49:54 pm »
LOL. Just give up the hobby then. Nothing new to do. Its all been done to death. Time to move on.

Not at all, Ime not into this for something new edgey or innovative.

Its been 9 years to the day that I finished my mame cabinet (popped up on facebook memories earlier lol) and I started building it over a year before that.

Since then I have built a few different cabs but all of a traditional design with the exception of a 2 screen cocktail cabinet for playing head to head 2 player games.
And my little MVS bartop which I made instead of a full size MVS which I have no room for.

Of course I have not been on this forum that long, I only really joined up when I was looking to update my cab with some Aim traks and a spinner.
Guess I was innovative with the spinner because I front mounted mine which turns out I rather like!

But the thing that keeps me coming back to here is the people, Sure I like to see builds people make even the samey samey ones.
But I like the grumpy old nerds that reside here with similar interests more.

And of course the gaming talk!

A forum is nothing without a community, We dont need loads of new innovative builds.
We just need each other (in a non gay sounding way!)

If you are bored start a thread or something.

Hell ive posted a few random threads in my time here from stupid things like the getting to know you thread to things like reporting games I think may be of interest to some like the streets of rage remake.

The 3D printer thread and the VR thread are good examples of this atm.

This is what I've been trying to say the whole time. My comment about giving up was sarcastic. I just can't believe the lack of imagination on this board sometimes.  :cheers:

Agreed.

leapinlew

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2018, 06:47:28 pm »
I just can't believe the lack of imagination on this board sometimes.  :cheers:

The thing I think you fail to grasp is, it's not about designing some new art to wrap a cab in, or putting some other cosmetic change. It's about hurdles left to break down.

At one time in my life, I wanted a basement full of games. Then I learned I could have 1 cabinet play multiple games, but at the time, things weren't quite right. Controls were inadequate, ghosting, expense, etc. Over the years, all those issues are resolved. Resolved to the point that competition has drove price down. There is just about nothing left to resolve.

Hell, dream cabinets with lit buttons, dynamic marquees, full art, and durable finishes - easy to achieve now. I'm not talking about the community, I'm talking about the actual hardware/software/materials required.

It's cool for you to have your head in the sand and pretending as if "We've just scratched the surface" but that's lol crazy talk.

yotsuya

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2018, 07:07:11 pm »
We have plenty of creative types here. Itís just that the best ones also have a good healthy dose of being practical mixed in. Otherwise, fish will die.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

markc74

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #48 on: March 02, 2018, 07:08:44 pm »
FWIW I think we're pretty much there with being able to create the full arcade experience up to the crap that came out after mid-90s (shooters apart). There isn't much left to do in terms of function - but there are probably new and interesting ways of presentation. As much as I thought the Monolith design went over the top I was really looking forwards to seeing it built as it could have been a pretty fun, if not "authentic", experience.

All I really want - and I know it's unlikely now - is a really good gun system that just *works* but I think it's probably too niche for anyone to build.

I personally can't see myself building any more full size cabs as the ones I have suit me fine. I've got the bits to make a tiny tabletop arcade which I might put together but it probably wont bring anything new to the table. A VPIN is what I want to do next.

It would be cool to see some VR style arcades - pinball works surprisingly well in VR, as does racing, but then you don't really need clever cabinets for those...

yotsuya

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2018, 07:13:18 pm »
If weíre talking technical innovations, I want to see some kind of plastic filter that fits over LCD screens to give them a CRT type of curvature.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

markc74

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2018, 07:36:32 pm »
If flexible screens ever come out then a 4K oled bendy screen could probably do a fair impression of a crt. Probably insanely expensive though!

yotsuya

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2018, 07:50:21 pm »
If flexible screens ever come out then a 4K oled bendy screen could probably do a fair impression of a crt. Probably insanely expensive though!

Probably, but thatís the direction Iíll love to see it go in. Iíd rather see innovations that enhance gameplay as opposed to looks, but an LCD that gave you the true CRT feel would be hard to resist.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

Arroyo

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2018, 08:32:59 pm »
If flexible screens ever come out then a 4K oled bendy screen could probably do a fair impression of a crt. Probably insanely expensive though!

Probably, but thatís the direction Iíll love to see it go in. Iíd rather see innovations that enhance gameplay as opposed to looks, but an LCD that gave you the true CRT feel would be hard to resist.
I take it GLSL or HLSL settings with screen curvature and phosphor glow is not currently hitting the mark?

nitrogen_widget

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2018, 08:34:25 pm »
If weíre talking technical innovations, I want to see some kind of plastic filter that fits over LCD screens to give them a CRT type of curvature.

Like a bowed out Fresnel lens.

wp34

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2018, 09:13:48 pm »
There is a lot of technical innovation happening on KLOV.  The add-on HighScoreSaves has to automatically save high scores to the Cloud is pretty darn cool and a logical progression of arcade technology.  I particularly love all the FPGA boards that have come out or are being discussed over there.

shaolindrunkard

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2018, 09:19:06 pm »
I just can't believe the lack of imagination on this board sometimes.  :cheers:
It's cool for you to have your head in the sand and pretending as if "We've just scratched the surface" but that's lol crazy talk.

Whatever you say buddy.


Vigo

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2018, 09:43:05 pm »
I take it GLSL or HLSL settings with screen curvature and phosphor glow is not currently hitting the mark?

With all the HLSL stuff, there might be some disguising behind smoked glass on raster games, so fine in a lot of cases. When you have a cabinet that "shows some skin" you will never fool me on what a CRT is when I can see the screen unfiltered.

Not to mention vectors. I have never seen a convincing vector game done and don't think it is possible. Maybe could fool someone into believing a LCD is a dimmed, aged vector monitor, but that crisp, vibrant pop that a vibrant vector monitor creates cannot ever be replaced. It is amazing how miraculous asteroids looks on a great vector CRT.

opt2not

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2018, 10:18:46 pm »
All I really want - and I know it's unlikely now - is a really good gun system that just *works* but I think it's probably too niche for anyone to build.
Cut from the same cloth, man.  I would love to build a dedicated gun cabinet, I haven't seen one done in a long while.

Nephasth

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2018, 11:03:16 pm »
All I really want - and I know it's unlikely now - is a really good gun system that just *works* but I think it's probably too niche for anyone to build.
Cut from the same cloth, man.  I would love to build a dedicated gun cabinet, I haven't seen one done in a long while.

Area 51 and Time Crisis... That's about it.
%Bartop

Zrooney

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2018, 11:16:34 pm »
I've been doing this a while. Last year was my first year of not building a cabinet. I've built dozens over the years (At last count, I was close to 40). I lurked and I don't think I saw anything ground breaking in 2017. Were there even awards? The Mameys faded away as the changes to the industry became minor incremental improvements.

Most of all the major hurdles have been cleared, inexpensive artwork, affordable kids, awesome frontends, authentic controls, etc - you can build a badass cabinet for peanuts now. What's left?

I enjoy the community, but I don't think there are any frontiers left.
Krangbrain's Star Wars upright has potential, too.  That keeps me coming back in what is either the current lull or the apocalyptic end times.

I'd vote it for a UCA nomination, if UCAs were still a thing.
:-) hummingbird n h h km n
I've been doing this a while. Last year was my first year of not building a cabinet. I've built dozens over the years (At last count, I was close to 40). I lurked and I don't think I saw anything ground breaking in 2017. Were there even awards? The Mameys faded away as the changes to the industry became minor incremental improvements.

Most of all the major hurdles have been cleared, inexpensive artwork, affordable kids, awesome frontends, authentic controls, etc - you can build a badass cabinet for peanuts now. What's left?

I enjoy the community, but I don't think there are any frontiers left.
  Well there is the problem, "affordable, budget" Cookie cutter cloned junk, Jennifer still has fun, building quality and constantly looks for ways to improve.... And those who are bored to tears and blaming the world, just get off your butts and build something cool rather than sit around and post about "free crap," or how chuffed you are.

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Laythe

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2018, 12:17:13 am »
Krangbrain's Star Wars upright has potential, too.  That keeps me coming back in what is either the current lull or the apocalyptic end times.

I'd vote it for a UCA nomination, if UCAs were still a thing.
:-) hummingbird n h h km n

I've stared at this for a while and I've got *nothing*. 

I keep trying to read it, though.  :dizzy:

Smiley.  Hummingbird.  North.  Hour.  Hour.  Kilometer.  North.     It's... an Infocom walkthrough?

jennifer

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2018, 06:11:17 am »
I just can't believe the lack of imagination on this board sometimes.  :cheers:

The thing I think you fail to grasp is, it's not about designing some new art to wrap a cab in, or putting some other cosmetic change. It's about hurdles left to break down.

At one time in my life, I wanted a basement full of games. Then I learned I could have 1 cabinet play multiple games, but at the time, things weren't quite right. Controls were inadequate, ghosting, expense, etc. Over the years, all those issues are resolved. Resolved to the point that competition has drove price down. There is just about nothing left to resolve.

Hell, dream cabinets with lit buttons, dynamic marquees, full art, and durable finishes - easy to achieve now. I'm not talking about the community, I'm talking about the actual hardware/software/materials required.

It's cool for you to have your head in the sand and pretending as if "We've just scratched the surface" but that's lol crazy talk.
  You may be crazier than Miss Jennifer.... Tech changes every day, and with it come new possibilities,  A few more years and I might finally be able to project a lazer image onto smoke.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 06:13:02 am by jennifer »

shaolindrunkard

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2018, 08:22:21 am »
 :applaud:

bperkins01

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2018, 09:33:20 am »
I just wanted to play a Centipede machine that worked... Now all the other games are coming along for the ride.
That said - building a first cab is 100% innovation for the guy building it and a competition with your own skill set.
I think the second one is the place where there is the most potential for something new.
My Arcade Build and other projects here:
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Richie_jones

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2018, 11:08:14 am »
You think it's all been done then somebody makes a cab out of a whisky barrel...Theres always more ideas out there.
My latest cab in my opinion was an unique design. But I've noticed lately in the forums on here and other arcade forums it's difficult to drum up any interest in build logs. Some people will post over and over on progress and have no replies. Agreed that the really really good ones are rare now but in still love the hobbie.

leapinlew

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2018, 02:44:05 pm »
You think it's all been done then somebody makes a cab out of a whisky barrel...

Yes, half a decade ago someone built an arcade game out of a barrel...

I suppose there will be new ways to repackage the same stuff for some time. My point is, new themes and cabinets aren't really the innovation I was thinking of and that all the things that made a arcade cabinet not possible in the early days have been overcome. Putting new stickers on the cabinet doesn't count as innovation.

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #66 on: March 03, 2018, 03:09:56 pm »
Putting new stickers on the cabinet doesn't count as innovation.
What does??

As someone said: it's just a computer in a wooden cabinet.

Ian

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #67 on: March 03, 2018, 05:09:40 pm »
I think most of us who are serious about arcade machines and history end up taking the next step and becoming collectors and restorers of actual machines. That leads to moving  on from BYOACing.

This!  :cheers:

Plus I have recently been hard at work sprucing up the Black Rose Pinball machine I bought (pinball subforum is dead otherwise I would have posted my progress), that and my restorations (Super Punchout should finally be done once it warms up!). I love the hobby and I still play Mame for certain games, but anything with unique controls I am always going to look to restore an original instead of Frankenpaneling my mame.

 
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2018, 05:12:36 pm »
All I really want - and I know it's unlikely now - is a really good gun system that just *works* but I think it's probably too niche for anyone to build.
Cut from the same cloth, man.  I would love to build a dedicated gun cabinet, I haven't seen one done in a long while.

I personally love the Virtua Cop series, but those games are hard to come by. Would love to do a mame cabinet with the complete VC Series in one cab. But the currant guns can be a pain in the butt.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

jennifer

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #69 on: March 03, 2018, 05:46:50 pm »
I think most of us who are serious about arcade machines and history end up taking the next step and becoming collectors and restorers of actual machines. That leads to moving  on from BYOACing.

This!  :cheers:

Plus I have recently been hard at work sprucing up the Black Rose Pinball machine I bought (pinball subforum is dead otherwise I would have posted my progress), that and my restorations (Super Punchout should finally be done once it warms up!). I love the hobby and I still play Mame for certain games, but anything with unique controls I am always going to look to restore an original instead of Frankenpaneling my mame.
  I have to feel guilty because Jenn cannot document all her projects, .... But I did try with the Hs2, And like you say It is slow, however not dead, there are people curious and interested, possibly just researching cab construction who know what there motives may be..... Jennifer for one would be quite interested in seeing your Black rose. ;D 

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #70 on: March 03, 2018, 06:34:52 pm »
Putting new stickers on the cabinet doesn't count as innovation.
What does??

If he could answer that, then the title of the thread would be "2018: The Year Of At Least One Innovation"
No Quarter - a basic FE, WIP

Laythe

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2018, 07:43:42 pm »
"You know how I know that itís the end of the world? Everything's already been done. Every kind of musicís been tried. Every kind of governmentís been tried, every hairstyle, bubble gum flavors, you know, breakfast cereal. What are we going to do? How are we going to make another thousand years? Iím telling you, man, itís over. We used it all up."

- Max, Strange Days...   1995

leapinlew

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2018, 07:52:25 pm »
Everything from the software to most of the hardware is near perfect. There's no gaping hole where we are building our own hardware or software to build a cabinet. Sure, there are little things like vector monitors, yoke controllers and a few other odds and ends that aren't readily available.

I'm asking, "have we reached the end of the line?" and people are responding with no! You lack imagination! Have you tried putting different stickers on your cabinet?  :lol

If the goal is to wax nostalgic by creating an arcade cabinet that can play 99% of the games from our youth and not break the bank building it - we have arrived. What is left?

shaolindrunkard

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2018, 07:56:35 pm »
 :tool:

DrakeTungsten

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #74 on: March 03, 2018, 10:13:59 pm »
If the goal is to wax nostalgic by creating an arcade cabinet that can play 99% of the games from our youth and not break the bank building it - we have arrived. What is left?
Playing the darn games.

I can't wait until my hardware and software projects are complete, and then I can finally devote my gaming time to gaming, instead of prepping for gaming. Learning about and fiddling with the hardware and software is fun, but it's always been primarily a means to an end for me, and I suspect this holds true for most DIY cabinet builders.

What kind of of a responses were you expecting? Innovation drops off as a hobby matures, so what? This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Your question just sounds like a veiled lament for the good old days.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 10:32:09 pm by DrakeTungsten »
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nitrogen_widget

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #75 on: March 03, 2018, 10:16:06 pm »
I take it GLSL or HLSL settings with screen curvature and phosphor glow is not currently hitting the mark?

With all the HLSL stuff, there might be some disguising behind smoked glass on raster games, so fine in a lot of cases. When you have a cabinet that "shows some skin" you will never fool me on what a CRT is when I can see the screen unfiltered.

Not to mention vectors. I have never seen a convincing vector game done and don't think it is possible. Maybe could fool someone into believing a LCD is a dimmed, aged vector monitor, but that crisp, vibrant pop that a vibrant vector monitor creates cannot ever be replaced. It is amazing how miraculous asteroids looks on a great vector CRT.

I don't glsl to fool myself.
I glsl because honestly it makes the game look better to me on an LCD screen.

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #76 on: March 03, 2018, 10:34:30 pm »
In my mind, the next innovation is going to be writing more games.  Eventually, I want to slip a few that I've written onto my cab, complete with bezel art and marquee art, hiding among the classics from the day.  If somebody can't immediately spot that a few of these never existed in the day, that's my personal bar to call it success.

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #77 on: March 03, 2018, 10:46:46 pm »
In my mind, the next innovation is going to be writing more games.  Eventually, I want to slip a few that I've written onto my cab, complete with bezel art and marquee art, hiding among the classics from the day.  If somebody can't immediately spot that a few of these never existed in the day, that's my personal bar to call it success.

That's an interesting angle.  There seems to be a rich "homebrew" community with the consoles but not so much with the arcade platform. 

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2018, 03:09:40 am »
Isn't the innovation stalling because of the people who keep shouting "CRT!", "authenticity!", "original!", "NO aircraft carrrier!" and telling off people who (try to) do differently?  :dunno

If you want to do everything like back in the days, of course you won't have any innovation. Everything that's original and authentic has of course already been done. By thinking outside the box you will get new and original projects. Of course some ideas seem stupid, but hey, some of them are actually innovative.

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Re: 2018: The year of no new innovations?
« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2018, 08:47:06 am »
If the goal is to wax nostalgic by creating an arcade cabinet that can play 99% of the games from our youth and not break the bank building it - we have arrived. What is left?
Playing the darn games.

I can't wait until my hardware and software projects are complete, and then I can finally devote my gaming time to gaming, instead of prepping for gaming. Learning about and fiddling with the hardware and software is fun, but it's always been primarily a means to an end for me, and I suspect this holds true for most DIY cabinet builders.

What kind of of a responses were you expecting? Innovation drops off as a hobby matures, so what? This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Your question just sounds like a veiled lament for the good old days.

I guess I should point out the obvious, this is a Build Your Own Controls site. Sorry about your comprehension slippage.  ;)

I can't speak for all DIY cabinet builders, but it's not uncommon for the journey to be as fun, or more fun, than playing the games. There has definitely been a slew of folks who join, build, and leave. Many of those users return a few years later with a "I am rebuilding, what's new?" post and often times the answer has been updated vendor lists with superior products, better prices, better frontends etc. What would we tell someone returning from 2014 wanting to know what they can incorporate into their cabinet?

  
 

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