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Author Topic: weird issue with trackball lag and frame delay.  (Read 583 times)

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jimmer

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weird issue with trackball lag and frame delay.
« on: February 11, 2018, 03:43:01 pm »

Any ideas on this please? I'm not against upgrading to latest version if that's needed, but would rather understand/fix this if possible.

I noticed that in Missile Command my trackball is lagging, it kind of accelerates up to speed I think, which feels like a pause.  (This is since change from XP to win7). I'm running groovymame 171. Note: The trackball works perfectly in other windows programs, and the pointer precision enhancement is turned off.

If I use a simple mame.ini there is no problem. My usual mame.ini with framedelay 0 is bad lag, but if I put framedelay 8 (in missile.ini) things are much better.

Also, I notice that the usual mame ini is running Missile Command at 98% whereas the simple one is 100%, why is that?   

 

On forums jimmer speaks for himself as a Defender fan, not as proprietor of www.jbgaming.co.uk  << Is that advertising or disclosure ? or both ?

Calamity

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Re: weird issue with trackball lag and frame delay.
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2018, 04:49:17 am »
The input layer in baseline has completely been reworked since 171, so troubleshooting that old version is futile.

That said, the way you're playing with inis is also problematic. Your "simple" mame.ini version is lacking some vital GM options that might be hiding the issue by simply breaking normal GM behaviour. Impossible to tell without the corresponding logs.

Current versions are less prone to show these ini related issues too.

Quote
Also, I notice that the usual mame ini is running Missile Command at 98% whereas the simple one is 100%, why is that?

What refresh rate is being reported for Missile Command in the information screen?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

jimmer

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Re: weird issue with trackball lag and frame delay.
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2018, 06:41:32 am »
Thanks for the reply, it was all a bit confusing yesterday but  I've clarified my test cases now and also tried groovymame64_0194.017g

method:

Using my standard mame.ini
adjust the framedelay in the command line eg groovy194.exe missile -frame_delay 7


findings:

0194 and 0171 behave the same.

framedelay 0 has a noticeable lag before cursor starts moving
framedelay 1 and framedelay 7  has no or unnoticeable lag (as far as I can tell)


Attached is a log of framedelay 0 run.



I guess I don't have a problem anymore as I can just run frame_delay 1 as my default.



On the 98%, I suppose that is normal for a 60Hz lcd?  ( it's Just that I don't usually look at it except on Defender which shows 100%)


On forums jimmer speaks for himself as a Defender fan, not as proprietor of www.jbgaming.co.uk  << Is that advertising or disclosure ? or both ?

Calamity

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Re: weird issue with trackball lag and frame delay.
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2018, 06:49:19 am »
I see you're using the D3D build, you should use the D3D9ex build instead if you're on Windows 7. Plain D3D has terrible latency without frame delay. You might find that D3D9ex works good enough out of the box without needing to mess with frame delay, unless you really want to do it (frame delay needs to be adjusted on a per-game basis).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

jimmer

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Re: weird issue with trackball lag and frame delay.
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2018, 08:18:04 am »
I see you're using the D3D build, you should use the D3D9ex build instead if you're on Windows 7. Plain D3D has terrible latency without frame delay. You might find that D3D9ex works good enough out of the box without needing to mess with frame delay, unless you really want to do it (frame delay needs to be adjusted on a per-game basis).

OK I think this is my error then:  frame_delay 0 turns things off ? whereas I was assuming that framedelay 0 is just 1.6ms different to frame_delay 1.


Would you expect any/much difference between D3D frame_delay 1  and D3D9ex frame_delay 1 ?

I usually build my own version of groovymame, I only downloaded a built version of 0194 for speed. See attached log of my 0171 build: is that D3D or D3D9ex ?   I will need to look into building a D3D9ex version if there is a benefit.


oh..and thanks for helping me understand all this

On forums jimmer speaks for himself as a Defender fan, not as proprietor of www.jbgaming.co.uk  << Is that advertising or disclosure ? or both ?

Calamity

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Re: weird issue with trackball lag and frame delay.
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2018, 11:19:38 am »
Your 171 build is D3D, not D3D9ex.

Quote
OK I think this is my error then:  frame_delay 0 turns things off ?

Frame delay 0 turns frame delay off, only. It leaves D3D's default frame queue untouched, which is too laggy.

Quote
whereas I was assuming that framedelay 0 is just 1.6ms different to frame_delay 1.

(16.7 ms, yes) That is true for D3D9ex, not for D3D9.

Quote
Would you expect any/much difference between D3D frame_delay 1  and D3D9ex frame_delay 1 ?

No difference.

But there's a huge difference between D3D frame delay 0 and D3D9ex frame delay 0. And because frame delay is problematic for some demanding drivers that's why I'm telling you not to use D3D when you can use D3D9ex (Vista+).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

jimmer

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Re: weird issue with trackball lag and frame delay.
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2018, 01:02:08 pm »
OK thanks, you've convinced me to move up to 0194_D3D9ex.  Will try compiling my build later.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 06:36:08 am by jimmer »
On forums jimmer speaks for himself as a Defender fan, not as proprietor of www.jbgaming.co.uk  << Is that advertising or disclosure ? or both ?

jimmer

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Re: weird issue with trackball lag and frame delay.
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2018, 06:37:27 am »

How long is the standard D3D frame queue?  I can see/feel the difference between between framedelay 0 and framedelay 1 and I'd like to put a number to that. Is what I'm feeling  17ms, 33ms, 50ms ?
On forums jimmer speaks for himself as a Defender fan, not as proprietor of www.jbgaming.co.uk  << Is that advertising or disclosure ? or both ?

krick

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Re: weird issue with trackball lag and frame delay.
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 08:20:46 am »
I just wanted inject a comment about mame.ini files...

If you take an old mame.ini and put it in the same directory with a new version of MAME and then run...

mame64.exe - cc

Mame should"consume" the old mame.ini and write out a new mame.ini with all the current settings while keeping ones from the old file that are still valid.

I highly recommend that you do this with your "standard" ini.
Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.8GHz
ASUS Z87M-PLUS Motherboard

  
 

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