Punching and Kicking

[Big Lebowski]

Hi all. I am thinking about doing a dedicated fighting setup. I will probably program my own game to work with the physical setup rather than try to interface it with existing games. I will probably wire it using a sidewinder gamepad, and have a freestanding structure with 6-8 pads for punching and kicking, wired up to the sidewinder gamepad. Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how to make this work well. I want to have to strike the pads with fairly significant force for them to register a blow in the game, so just putting some padding over arcade buttons won't work. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,
Dennis

[Spaced Invader]

Heavy springs (not too heavy) and leaf-like switches (might have to build your own contacts). How do you propose to handle movement...and why are you doing this? I'd love to see a finished product.

[Big Lebowski]

For movement I was thinking of using a ddr pad. Probably just start with a commercial soft pad, taped down to plywood to start with, and maybe build a custom pad with more directional control specific to the game I want to make. As for why I am doing it I love the idea of physically interactive games. I have already done several games that interact with my stationary bike and treadmill, including a remake of Activision's Decathlon where your athlete's speed, throwing distance etc is measured by the speed you are running/riding. Those games are good, but I wanted something that was even more interactive than just riding a bike, and pressing buttons. A fighting game seemed like it would be cool. With foot movement, punching and kicking pads, perhaps even pads for blocking (with force feedback - well...maybe not). The game would run off of a computer hooked up to my projector, so the game would be played on a 100" screen to fully immerse the player in the action. Unfortunately my ideas often exceed my knowledge and capability to make them happen. I can handle the game programming, and some simple joystick hacks, but beyond that I am lost. I found the forum here, and it sounded like the right group of people to ask. I'm amazed at some of the projects that the people here have accoplished

Dennis

[Big Lebowski]

Something like this for the springs perhaps?

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/3dm-sport/spng-h.html

I would probably mount them on a sturdy wood frame, and cover them with some sort of vinyl padding. I guess just have the padding come down enough to trigger a leaf switch attached to the wood frame, and wired to the sidewinder pcb.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I think, given that your feet will be occupied by the D-Pad, I would concentrate on two sets of high/low pads to simulate high/low punches and high/low kicks by punching only.

I think small boards (6"x6", or so) with springs behind them (as mentioned above) will probably work fine.
How many boards you would need to do this would depend on what games you try to use with it, and how detailed their controls were.

The one downside I see to having too many of these "buttons" though would be that it would begin to block your view--lessening the immersion factor.

Here are a couple examples to give you an idea of what is out there already.
Boxingmania
MoCap Boxing
Heavyweight Champ
Punchmania

There was another cabinet I remember that the company pulled because it judged your effectiveness based on how HARD you hit the pads, and people sued them after getting hurt playing it.

[Big Lebowski]

Thanks for the info. I admit I was still uncertain how I was going to work the kicking in with the foot movement. Would still like to keep it in as it gets the whole body involved, but I might have to stick to punching only. When I started thinking about this project I did some Googling and saw some of those games you mentioned above. Boxingmania seems to be the closest to what I have in mind (although I will have no infrared sensors to detect movement). The idea of force measurement had occurred to me as well, but I guess you would need to install transducers of some sort (dynamometers?) to measure the force of the punch. I assume this would be expensive, and I have no idea how I would get them to transfer the data they measure to the computer.

[NoOne=NBA=]

If you used progressive loading springs, you might be able to incorporate a simple slider pot into this.
My idea is that the springs should load up as the pad is displaced, so that it gets harder to move the pad the farther it is pushed in, requiring more force.

I think you may need circuitry to "trap" the high end signal though.
On a quick punch, the computer may not read the signal quickly enough.

[SilverVice]

I was thinking of doing something similar a while ago. I was also wondering about the immersion factor at that time so my plan was to use "Fitness Tube" like http://www.bodytrends.com/products/resistance/fitnesstube.htm around the wrists and ankles. That way all the setup was on the back of the player. In front of a projector that would be awesome. The only downside was the lack of impact, but still a great way to exercise.

Hope it help.

[Big Lebowski]

Looks like an interesting product, but I definitely want to have impact. (Great stress relief!). I actually went down to the local arcade yesterday to try out some Mocap Boxing. It was a fun game, and pretty tiring with those two pound boxing gloves, but I still wanted to be hitting something besides air. I've been checking out existing boxing games, and I think I am going to try and interface with them rather than create my own. Punchout for NES, and Evander Holyfield's Real Deal Boxing for Genesis look like they would be good candidates, and the fairly simple controls would mean I wouldn't have to build too many striking pads. Kungfu Master for MAME would be good as well, with one pad for punch, one for kick, and then the directional pad for left right, jump, duck. Can anyone suggest any other good games with fairly simple controls that would work with this kind of setup?

[Katana Man]

Many years ago, at our local roller skating rink, there was a StreetFighter 1 game that had 2 big rubber button pads (about 6 inches in diameter). One was red, one was blue. It seemed they were filled with a thick gel substance. One was for punching, one was for kicking.

[JB]

Many years ago, at our local roller skating rink, there was a StreetFighter 1 game that had 2 big rubber button pads (about 6 inches in diameter). One was red, one was blue. It seemed they were filled with a thick gel substance. One was for punching, one was for kicking.  That harder you punched these buttons, the harder the Ken/Ryu would punch or kick.  I have never seen a game like this since.  Has anyone else seen this?

Let me tell you, it was a blast playing it. You'd get a little sweaty and everything. It always drew a crowd. I can only imagine that Capcom took them off the market for legal reliability reasons.

Used air.
They were only on dedicated SF machines. Conversions used the 6-button layout we know and love(or is it loathe?).
They also weren't very reliable, which is why you never saw them again.

[Katana Man]

If anyone has any pictures of this old style StreetFighter, I'd love to see it.

[ChadTower]

Awesome, I'd love a fighting cab you can actually hit.

[RayB]

Yeah I played it when it came out. It was cool as a novelty but made my shoulder hurt. It also made it very difficult to play properly while also trying to hit the button as hard as possible.

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=9803

Another "action force" game that I thought worked well was Sega's Heavyweight Champ. You could push in each lever hard to punch, as well as swivel the entire top of the game. That meant you could swing punches, do upper-cuts, etc... Was really cool!

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=8098

[quarterback]

I want to have to strike the pads with fairly significant force for them to register a blow in the game, so just putting some padding over arcade buttons won't work.

I don't think that's necessarily an accurate assumption.  I think you could fashion a pad over a button that was not nearly as easy to activate as you might think.   Obviously you'd need a little space between the back surface of the padding and the button, but lean a matress up against a wall and punch it.  With even 1/4" of space between it and the button top, I think you'd find you need a good "punch" to activate the button.

[Kremmit]

Don't mount a mattress on a wall, hack a Slam Man!

[quarterback]

Don't mount a mattress on a wall,

I didn't really mean that you should mount a matress to the wall.  I just meant that as an example

hack a Slam Man!

That's a stellar idea.  I bet those are gathering dust in basements across the US.   Hack one of those SOBs!

[RayB]

Keep in mind, the way the buttons on the original SF worked wasn't that if you hit it hard enough it registers a blow. It would register different strengths for punches and kicks (light, med, hard). So just putting padding over a button isn't going to duplicate that kind of input.

[Kremmit]

You know, the Quasicon controller has arcade-looking analog buttons..

[Big Lebowski]

Has anyone seen the punching power game they have outside the arcade at the Luxor hotel in Vegas? When you plug a couple of quarters in the machine what looks like a large speed bag drops down from the top. You hit the bag as hard as you can, and it measures the force of the punch on a numerical scale ranging from 0-999. It has a chart on the front of the machine measuring your power level. 800-899=Fighter 900-999=Boxer etc. It was a pretty cool attraction, and people were plugging money into it non-stop while I was there. For variety you could also choose to measure punching speed instead of power, though I didn't see anyone try that so I don't know how it worked. I tried to Google the game when I got back from Vegas but couldn't find anything. The only names I saw printed on the machine were Boxers and Boxing Champions. There was no screen display, just LED numbers that counted up and displayed your final power measurement. If anyone has any info on this game I'd appreciate finding out more about it.

[quarterback]

Has anyone seen the punching power game they have outside the arcade at the Luxor hotel in Vegas? When you plug a couple of quarters in the machine what looks like a large speed bag drops down from the top. You hit the bag as hard as you can, and it measures the force of the punch

I've seen this "game" in a number of C&W bars in Texas.

[Big Lebowski]

Do you happen to know what the official name of this game is?

Thanks,
Dennis

[Big Lebowski]

Nvm. I finally found it. Here is a link:

http://www.coinopexpress.com/products/machines/sport_games/Boxer_Punch_Machine_%28Plain_Colours%29_5932.html

[RayB]

WOW that thing is OVERPRICED!

[Big Lebowski]

Tell me about it. I was pretty surprised when I saw the price tag, especially considering its minimalistic design, and lack of any sort of screen. I don't know what kind of 'sensors' it uses to determine power, but they can't be worth that much.

[quarterback]

Do you happen to know what the official name of this game is?

I don't remember, but it was a little more 0ld sk00l than the one you found.  I definitely remember that the bag wasn't that b/w color and it didn't look that "rounded" and sleek on the top.  I also don't think the #s were that big.

Not that that info helps you any, but if you were actually looking to buy a game like this, it's just to let you know there are older (cheaper?) versions around