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Author Topic: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?  (Read 3500 times)

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jonbenderr

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Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« on: June 13, 2017, 05:48:31 am »
Hello again guys.

So I think I have managed to read every thread here and even elsewhere in regards to using guncon2 with a mame cabinet.

Information seems to drop off pretty quick as the posts get more recent.

Am I to late to get these things working as they are?

I have the official Namco NPC-106 guns so I've been trying to use the wingun program from ages ago to at least manage the rolling-x problem.  Drivers don't seem to install at all on Win 7 32-bit.  I have actually managed to get them to install on a virtualization of windows XP or what is known as XP Mode, but the guns do not detect.  I can even see "Guncon HID" or something similar in device manager but there is a code 10 when looking at the properties.

As for my video setup, I have a Manhattan PC to TV converter box.  I'm running VGA to this, than S-Video out to a CRT.  I've tried using composite out on the converter box as well as the composite out of my CRT to the guncon to no avail.

Pretty much every configuration I could try, I have tried.

I'm also seeing a message in information view of Wingun that it cannot load the profiles.

Is it my convertor box that is causing the problem?  I'm not opposed to swiping an actual tv out card off ebay if I can score one for cheap.

Getting a mod kit for the guns from Aimtrak right now is not an option due to cost so if I have to give up the dream of playing some Lethal Enforcers I guess that's just the way it is.  :)

Any new info out there that anyone could point me to would be greatly appreciated.

jonbenderr

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2017, 01:13:10 pm »
Interesting update (maybe?).

Actually managed to get the drivers to install on windows 7 using PNPutil in CMD. 

Worked well enough that when I plug in a Guncon2 it pops up in Device Manager and reports as "working".

Now if only I could get wingun to detect the guns I would be in business.  Or at least the start of business.


Sean89us

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 09:27:42 am »
Could you go into more detail about how you got the drivers to install on windows 7? I can't get them to install. Something about a file not found

burn_654

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2017, 01:25:07 pm »
I have been woring on the 'TopGunCon' project with testing/assistance from phasermaniac. Basically it is a two part project for the GunCon2 - a software screen flasher and a hardware timer circuit to fit shots inside of the white screen flash. So far it is working pretty reliably after you tune the circuit. This does rely on the Topgun3 driver (which means no rolling X fix - you need to use a third party gun) but the 64bit driver seems to work just fine if you enable testsigning for Windows 7 - 10. The 32bit driver would be suitable for Windows XP. It's very much a wip, I need to properly document the project and simplify the circuit. Phasermaniac is showing some success working on a fully-software version of what my circuit does, hopefully that can simplify things further.

Interesting that you got the WinGun driver to force install. I can say that WinGun works pretty well for supported stuff (anything that can do directinput for 2 player - mame and games supported by original troubleshooter worked well) but for emulators requiring rawinput like model2 or pcsx2 (or live cursor tracking for both guns) you're out of luck. As well as being stick in XP (again, may or may not be a problem, depends on your needs. New mame versions probably won't run.)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 01:27:47 pm by burn_654 »

jonbenderr

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2017, 05:04:19 pm »
Yeah, I actually ended up installing xp and the guns detected no problem.

Windows 7 just wasn't happening, though I wonder how easy it would be to update wingun to work with 7.

I know nothing about driver programming though.

Fortunately none of the games I want are very demanding so I don't mind hashing things out with XP for a bit.

Good to hear there is still some work being done with these things. They are really nice guns. Look forward to learning more avout that project.

white_ghost

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2017, 01:04:05 pm »
Hi all,
I'm trying to get the guncon2 working on the pc (win7 x32 x64)
If there are some mad tester here I would like to know if it works for you
Important, Read the readme.txt
https://yadi.sk/d/YZBrP4zo3NeYFm
Edit : a guy has reported my mega link of my work, so if this guy wants to explain to me why, in private, I will be very happy to understand
++
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 02:11:44 am by white_ghost »

Jeppo

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2017, 04:35:36 pm »
Hi all,
I'm trying to get the guncon2 working on the pc (win7 x32 x64)
If there are some mad tester here I would like to know if it works for you
Important, Read the readme.txt
https://mega.nz/#!Y1wFXLjQ!Mf7tOByIEJ07dwkUiibdi52BJXsWkjBZzxd6vTN22bw
++
Hello white_ghost :)

I have succesfully installed your drivers and software, but I am loosing tracking every minute or so. I also have poor tracking along the edges of the screen.

Best Regards

white_ghost

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2017, 05:30:16 am »
Hello Jeppo,
Thx for feedback
I know it's not a perfect piece of software...
I re-checked again, but no loosing tracking even after long play (Under Windows or under mame)
Concerning the edges of the screen and poor tracking. I think it's due to the gun itself. I know that if the gun looses track it always sends the same fixed coordinates this is why you see the cursor sometimes appears in the left mid-upper of the screen. The software just transcribes the gun's coordinates to desktop coordinates, nothing more
This generally happened when you targeted darker area. For me, under desktop, the gun has difficulty with the taskbar because it's darker, under duckhunt, it has difficulty with the lower screen (Brown area, and black area)
As it's an optical device, have you tried to adjust contrast and luminosity of your tv set/crt, this may help a lot

p.s.
I made a little change (v0.02), because I realized the driver shut off after a month or more
edit : new link
https://yadi.sk/d/YZBrP4zo3NeYFm

Edit 2 : a guy has reported my mega link of my work, so if this guy wants to explain to me why, in private, I will be very happy to understand
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 01:38:08 am by white_ghost »

phasermaniac

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2017, 06:20:54 pm »
Interesting! Ill take a look tomorrow, I use a guncon45+ems dualshooter + ems topgundriver.
I also have two guncon2, but, what is this? A whole gun driver itself, an addon to some other driver?

white_ghost

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2017, 01:43:05 am »
Hello,
It's a simple driver/software for the guncon2

Rata En Lata

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2018, 06:26:21 am »
Hello everyone

Sorry if it's too late to reply in this post and sorry too if my english is not good, I'm from Spain. I've been looking for something like this for too long, but I give up and intall win XP in another machine with WinGun, so imagine my joy after seeing this, I honestly did not have any hope that it would work but I've tested the drivers right now in my personal computer, it works perfect!!! I've only tested it for a little time but here is my feedback.

Works on windows 10 64x res 800x600, tracks perfect after calibration (during calibration doesn't track correctly the right edge, but after pushing start everithing is perfect), I've doesn't lost the track yet, it seems your last fix works fine. No "X rolling" problem, in fact it keeps tracking well after pointing off the screen from the sides, which WinGun did not do at all well. I have not tried it yet in mame or in games and I don't think I can do it today, but if you want, as soon as I do I'll inform you. I have not managed to run a second GunCon2, maybe there is no way to do it, but if it's is posible, please tell me how to do it.

Comparing it with WinGun this one tracks much better, I like the "shooting dots" system from wingun, but this one calibrates perfect without it, so it doesn't matter, hopefully it is possible to implement some day the functionality of the other buttons of the gun (as well as the remaping and the "Click on edge" as in wingun) and a second gun, as I saw, is not based on RawInput, so the reload of the second player in Sega Model 2 is discarded, but the function of mapping the mouse button 1 and 2 to the first gun and the 3 and 4 to the second one would make this the best solution with difference for the rest of the games and emulators.

Thank you very much, I hope you continue with this project, it may become the perfect solution I'm looking for.

phasermaniac

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2018, 01:16:25 pm »

I'm using 3rd party guncon2 guns, may them work or only original guncon2 with rolling x problem?
Nowadays, I'm using Topgun driver, an idependent flasher and an script with an ahk wrapper https://autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=26306  for interception library http://www.oblita.com/interception.html.
This allows me to detect the guns sepparately and send the flasher delay the trigger some milliseconds and shorten the trigger duration to be inside the flash lengh.
Maybe it's something interesting if you want to add 2 player possibility, would be nice!
My script kinda work, althoughsome games looses some shoot, others seem to need the trigger be delayed even 30ms, I'm not very confident with the timings I'm using...

n1ghttrap

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2018, 05:23:39 pm »
Holy crap, white_ghost.  This is the best I've seen an actual lightgun work on PC.  I can hit most targets with reasonable accuracy through the sights, and it works on Win7 x64.  Have you developed this further?  2 player support?  Key/mouse mapping for the other buttons?   Can I bribe you via Patreon or something to work on this more?  A couple things I would like for sure is the option to turn off automatic fire and support for at least one more mouse button.  Thanks, and great work.

white_ghost

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2018, 05:03:34 am »
Hello,
I'm totally overbooked theses months, so it's really hard to find time to program, and spring is here, a lot of work to do outside
I know 2 players option is expected... Weeks ago, I bought a 2nd used guncon2 (for 10 euro). I found a way to pass coordinates/buttons to virtual mouse/keyboard.
Since I can't sign my own drivers for virtual mouse/keyboard (it costs an arm), I found a old free project on the net with already signed driver. You must understand I can't legally pack my software with theses drivers even if they are free (users must find and install it by themselves).
Basically, I read buttons/coords from guncon2 with my driver and send theses informations into others virtual driver (very easy on paper, but in real life...,  :banghead: )
Actually the principle and early test version work but it's absolutly not perfect so I need to rewrite all the software. I even don't know if I will get there...Tested on win 7 x64 and win 10 x64 (signed driver must be turned off in win10)
I've succesfully mapped key from guncon button to send key to mame and I can use the multi mouse/keyboard feature from mame, virtual mouses are seen by another great free project : demulshooter from Argonlefou.

about to turn off automatic fire : see repeat value, I can't do better
3rd mouse button will be in theory possible

This little project makes calls to many programming concepts that I even did not know (ie : drivers) and I'm really rusty in programming.
When ? I really don't know and I even don't know if I will release it because of the need of 3rd party signed driver  :dunno

I'm totally against patreon, and seriously, who would like paid for a "wobbly" software without support ?
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n1ghttrap

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2018, 12:37:54 am »
Well, whatever you've got, I'll test.  Dunno if you wanna continue posting to this thread or if you have a website you keep updated with your work.

Of note, not sure why but it seems like you need to ramp up the brightness a little bit to get the best results.  I find that raising black to grey makes it a lot more reliable.  I wonder why the Playstation doesn't struggle with this, but every guncon driver I've seen just doesn't work with black at all. 

While not perfect, and I'd love to see rawinput and a little bit less latency, it's still the best out there regarding real lightgun support on PC.  AFAIK the only other options are Wii style sensor guns.  The Actlabs VGA gun is no longer manufactured sadly.

white_ghost

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2018, 05:33:56 am »
Hello,
New version v0.16 online
this one use virtual device and allows 2 guns
read the readme for more info (and the readme first)
not perfect and no so easy to install but not too bad, I think
same link as above
https://yadi.sk/d/YZBrP4zo3NeYFm
++


n1ghttrap

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2018, 04:02:55 pm »
Thanks for posting your latest work, white_ghost.  Rawinput and 2player are very much appreciated, along with the extra button support.  I haven't been able to test 2 player yet, but a friend has another guncon and I'll look into doing that soon.

Ironcan

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2018, 09:48:12 am »

Nowadays, I'm using Topgun driver, an idependent flasher and an script with an ahk wrapper https://autohotkey.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=26306  for interception library http://www.oblita.com/interception.html.
This allows me to detect the guns sepparately and send the flasher delay the trigger some milliseconds and shorten the trigger duration to be inside the flash lengh.

Can you elaborate on what this flasher is? At the moment, these drivers are so close yet so far. They work really well. Tracks perfectly... on bright areas of the screen. What you're describing would be as close to perfect as it could possibly get, but I'm stumped by the "independent flasher" part. What program/instruction are you using?

If white_ghost sees this, I have some constructive criticism relating to what phasermaniac is talking about above and a possible suggestion to improve things in the future (if you have the time and ability to code it, you said you were pretty busy and that's understandable). The flash included in the driver is just not quite correct - the 0.02 dinput version uses the gamma flash which works okay, although the timing is often off, leaving it triggering a moment before moving to the correct location, with the 0.16 virtual device version of this driver not even flashing if the gun can't detect the screen which kind of kills the point of the flash unfortunately. Would it be possible to include a variable amount of frames or time that the flash is up for and a variable amount of delay on the actual trigger pull? For example, make it so the flash is up for 3 frames (or 50ms) and have the trigger pull after 33ms. Would something like that be possible?

Nightmystic

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2018, 11:21:24 am »
Hi White_ghost!
Love the software so far, good job!   :applaud:
I hope you will keep on developing further when you have time.
I got it to work on my Desktop Windows 7 64 bit machine, but it fails to work on my windows 7 64 bit laptop. I hope you can make this software work with a signed driver.
It would be nice if the calibration would improve. I like the calibration style wingun uses.
When I look through the sights and shoot, it fires lower, so better calibration would be super.
Tested the software with Original Guncon2's, Mame .184 and duck hunt. Looks promising.


white_ghost

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2018, 06:07:41 am »
Hi,
I read your comments and take care of them, thx
you know, this little piece of software was initially designed for my eyes only
I'm really rusty in programming (70's C knowledge) and there are many things that are new to me (drivers, windows programming, system programming...). That's not easy and I have not a good enough knowledge (and time).
dark areas are really a big trouble for real lightgun and we must deal with that.
concerning the gamma flash, nothing has changed between the 2 versions, but It seems the function I use, doesn't work on win10 ( SetDeviceGammaRamp() ) . I need to find another way to make flashes. and certainly launch a sort of timed thread for that. Other problematic, I should take care with 2 players : a lot of shots = a lot of flashes
concerning calibration, since guncon2 send linear values, I only need to detect screen boundaries and transpose guncon2's coords to screen. You can manually edit the ini file to correct a little misalignment. I assume Wingun uses targets because of the rolling x trouble.
Don't forget guncon2 are old and x axis value oscillates about 0 to 650, and y axis between about 0 and 230 (If I remember correctly) 
Signed drivers : I can't do more. Making drivers is very hard/complex and extremly dangerous for OS if they're badly programmated (bsod). it's micro$oft policy to have a eye on every driver created for windows. the certification for signed driver is not free and only valid for a year, real developpers must paid and repaid and repaid...QED
You said it works on your destop computer but not on your laptop, you mean laptop connected to crt display I hope (15khz). real lightguns not working on lcd display!

If I find a way to do better things, I'll do
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Nightmystic

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2018, 07:26:33 am »
Hello White_Ghost,
Thank you for your fast reply  :).
I program a little using Arduino (C based language) so I understand how difficult it can be  ;).
Dark areas...  ::) Maybe that is why I cant get Terminator 2 (Arcade mame version) to work well, the whole background is pitch black.
Personally, I dont use the flash, but I can understand why other people want it.
Thank you for the info, I didn't know there was oscillation, it probably explains the wobbly cursor movement.
Thanks for the tip concerning the .ini file, I will look into that. This could probably improve my experience a lot  :cheers:
Ok, so signed drivers cost money, understandable. Maybe I'll find a way to make it work on my laptop after some more time comparing software with my Desktop.
I know lightguns wont work on LCD, to make that work you'll need a infrared sensor based gun like EMS or Topgun.
Good luck on improving the software and implementing new features, I look forward to test them  8).



white_ghost

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2018, 02:18:29 am »
Re,
yes wobbly cursor is the consequence of the very low resolution of the guncon2
Even with infrared sensor bar, real lightgun will not work. This is absolutly not the same technology
real lightguns (like guncon 1, 2, early arcade gun) read the beam from crt display and calculate coords with timings (top blanking). This is why they only work with crt. they also need a specific frequence about 15khz (Pal, NTSC screens) and not vga screen (31khz) .So if your laptop is not connected to real crt, they will never work.
lcd lightguns are differents (ems, topgun, aimtrak, newer arcade gun), they use the same process the wiimote use (a sort of triangulation calcultation) with 2 infrared leds and an ir cam. They can work with each monitor type (crt, lcd)
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Nightmystic

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2018, 02:09:10 pm »
Hi,

Finally! I was starting to get :dizzy: but now the software works on my laptop as well  8)
I had to install in Safe Mode (Windows 7 64-bit). No idea why I needed safe mode on the laptop and regular mode was good enough for the desktop system.
Adjusting the config.ini file worked like a charm to get the crosshair where the sights line up, I use these settings:

[P1Calibration]
XMin=170
XMax=695
YMin=51
YMax=320
Repeat=150
[P2Calibration]
XMin=170
XMax=695
YMin=51
YMax=320
Repeat=150
[Other]
Minimize=0

FCEUX is a great NES emulator with Lightgun support. Took me quite some time to get it set up the way I wanted. I had to set Port 1 to None and Port 2 to Zapper to get it to work properly. In Duckhunt it is easy to see where the gun fires because a crosshair stays visible after the shot, very usefull for calibration purposes. Also, it becomes easy to see how inaccurate these guns are. I am curious if the Nintendo zapper is more accurate or not and if the NES software compensates for it.

House of the dead 3 (PC version) works well, brings back arcade memories, fun times ;D (The 2nd player option does not  :censored: work. I blame SEGA  :angry: ). Still fun to play tho.

After a lot of  :banghead: I found a way to play Terminator 2 in Mame 184. For some reason it did not work well with 2 players in Mame 104.
The only downside is that I cannot turn on a auto-fire option. White_ghost, is there a way to get auto-fire functionality with your software? Is it as simple as adjusting the config.ini or would you have to code an auto-fire option into the software?

Thanks again, really enjoying this software  ;D





« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 06:24:27 am by Nightmystic »

Nightmystic

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2018, 03:10:38 pm »
As was said in earlier posts in this topic, the Gungun software needs additional software to work. I ran into some problems installing the software on my laptop so I made this instruction for all of you that might find it useful.  I am Dutch so I apologize in advance for any bad grammar.

Since I only tested the software in Windows 7 64-Bit this instruction applies to windows 7 64 bit, but maybe it works on other 64 bit operating systems as well.

For the Namco Guncon 2 guns to work in Windows 7 64-bit a driver is needed.
The driver used with the Gungun software is unsigned so you need to log into windows while Drive Signature Enforcement is disabled.

First download the EcoTUIODriver from github:
https://github.com/ecologylab/EcoTUIODriver
Click on "Clone or Download" choose "Download ZIP".

Extract the zipped file to a folder.

On some systems it is necessary to boot into "Safe Mode" to get the drivers to install.
Repeatedly pressing the "F8" key while booting will display a menu with boot options.
Choose "Safe Mode" if necessary.

When windows is fully booted:
Open the "EcoTUIODriver" directory you just extracted to and then open the "Drivers" folder.
Open the "x64-Driver-Installers"folder.
Run the "Installvmulti1" file first and the "Installvmulti2" file.
Insert a Namco Guncon 2 USB plug into your PC or Laptop.

Download the "Gunguncon2" software:
https://yadi.sk/d/YZBrP4zo3NeYFm
Extract the software to a folder.
Open that folder.
Open the "x64" folder.
Open the "redist"folder.
Run the "1-install-driver" file, a pop up windows will open, click on "Install this driver software anyway".
Run the "2-install-device" file, when it is done installing, Reboot your system, and repeatedly press F8 during startup.
The boot options menu appears, choose "Disable driver signature enforcement".
Open the "gunguncon2" folder, then the "x64"folder en run the "Gungun" executable file.

Point the Guncon gun at the screen and aim the cursor at the Calibrate button, pull the trigger for automatic calibration or adjust the config.ini file for manual calibration.
If you make adjustments to the config.ini file it is probably wise to make backups of the file.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 04:31:13 am by Nightmystic »

Nightmystic

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Re: Guncon 2 - Dead Horse or Still Alive?
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2018, 04:54:35 pm »
Played duck hunt on a Nintendo 8-bit today. The Nintendo zapper seems to be more accurate than the Namco Guncon 2 guns.
But, that is probably because of the screen flash and the big hitbox around the target. Or so I read on another forum.
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=407894
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 06:53:45 pm by Nightmystic »

  
 

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