Building an arcade cab from scratch, need a bunch of help

[lordoxide]

Hello All,

I have decided to embark on building a custom arcade cabinet from scratch, this is a huge project for me considering that I am not a good woodworker. After researching for the last two weeks, I have decided to start my adventure here, I have a lot a questions, looking for a lot of advice, and am hoping to even get help with the actual cabinet design.

First Choice, Type of cabinet:

• After doing a lot of research and deciding what will work best for me, i have decided on a sit down style cabinet with stools. (Like this)
• There are lots of plans for standard standing or bartop cabinets, I haven't seen *any* yet for these, so the design is going to be hard to get right I think. If anyone has a good argument to change my mind me please do so

Second Choice, Type of display:

• I spent a lot of time researching, I understand the purists suggest an actual arcade monitor (with either ArcadeVGA  or Groovy+CRT_Emu), even with 4k IPS <10ms input lag freesync monitors now affordable, HLSL seems to still be a step behind according to the purists. So I went back and forth and sideways. Get a arcade monitor, get a 24" 16:9 low lag freesync monitor horizonal, get a 27" 16:9 low lag freesync monitor vertical. So many possibilities, and alot to consider in cost.
• I was deciding between two monitors either a Wells Gardner 27" tr-sync arcade monitor I found for 300 online or  LG 27UD58-B FreeSync Monitor for between $340-$400 (other sites have listed the input lag in game mode at 10ms so IPS should be better than TN in this case, and the 4k resoultion should help HLSL)
• Here is where things get tricky, I might have decided I want both (maybe droping the LCD down to 21-24in) In a perfect world, I would like to have the Wells Gardner  mounted horizontally with the cabinet being designed to have the LCD vertical at an upwards angle from behind the control almost  like looking down at a pinball machine ( Something like this)
• Again here is a point I need some advice, is this possible, should I be trying this. It *is* what I want, but if someone else has inside knowledge to why this wouldn't work please stop me now. I have read that I should be able to configure Mame to use the Arcade Monitor for horizontal games and the LCD for vertical. This feels like it would be everything I want. Sure i'd like to have the non-used monitor displaying something cool while the other is in use, but that isn't a requirement
• While I don't have the designs for the cabinet yet, i need to make sure with it being a lower sit down cabinet that the height still allows you play the vertical games, might require going standard style standup cabinet

Third Choice, Type of controls

• Initially I was looking at just having an X-Arcade Tankstick sit in the enclosure, but I have decided to build a custom 4 player control set with a trackball, and pinball buttons on the side of the controls.
• Any suggestions or objections here?

Four Choice, Type of computer

• Initially I was going to use a rPi or intel NUC, but after all the research, I've decided I need more processing power, and a standalone video card
• So to make this build a little more complex, I have decide to knock off another bucket list build, and make the PC an open air PC, with a plexi front door on the cabinet. (Something like this, but not as beefy)
• While this adds complexity to the build, this part is up my wheelhouse, I not exactly sure what type of CPU and GPU I would want to aim for.  I know the monitors are expensive, but I still want to keep the cost of the build manageable

So I'd like to start buying some of the parts for this build, specifically the monitors to start. So based on this above "build" idea, is what I want to do possible, should I jump on the Wells Gardner, time is of the essence since it is a local online sale.

Thanks,
Tom

[lordoxide]

The seller for the Wells Gardner 27" Tri-sync CRT, has tested the monitor it works with no burn-in, he is not sure on the exact model, and has agreed to $275, should I jump on this either way?

Thanks,
Tom

[lilshawn]

ultimately it's going to be up to you what you do. If you think you can do it, go for it. If you think you are up for the task, go for it.

if this is a first time attempt, I'd recommend buying a used cabinet and going from there. it's hard to make a cabinet from scratch, especially one that is going to be strong and sturdy. if you are a seasoned builder and know what you are up against...  but by the sounds of things building a scratch cabinet might be a bit more than you can chew. If you want to try your hand at building a cabinet... maybe start with a cocktail table. it's basically a square box. it's easy to cut (sans a few odd shapes for the control panels)...and is something easily made from a single 4x8 sheet of material. If this seems like something up your alley, I do have a cutlist for a cocktail. once you build your first, you can decide if you want to go bigger and more complex.

as for your monitor choice... the WG D series (D9200 D9400) is a pretty solid unit, provided it's in good shape to begin with. (no burn-in etc) be warned though the way the D series is designed, if something goes wrong with it... quite often LOTS of stuff blows up... bordering on damn near impossible to repair. I'm a service technician for an amusement company..and in the last 10 years i've had to toss 2 or 3 of them because I just cannot fix them (even after putting in literally weeks trying).

Use caution when mounting an LCD other than horizontally and at an angle anything other than 90 degrees to the eye. lots of LCD panels have a bad shift on color when viewed off axis like in a vertical orientation. IPS, not so much... but it's something to consider. test your choice before purchase at the angle and orientation you desire at the store and be sure it's not going to look wierd. also make sure the LCD you choose will power back on again when the power is applied without having to press the power button. trying to get around this issue is a huge pain later on.

for your controls. whatever you are comfortable with. a ready made panel is great because it's plug and play. a homemade is great because you can do whatever you want. really up to you. price out the parts... if you think you can make something better, go for it. if the tankstick is basically what you'd build... stick with that.

for your computer. I wouldn't bother with any of the small intel or atom type computers with integrated CPU's. just not enough IPC to make them usable. ultimately what computer you need comes down to what you want to do. picade is loved by some, hated by others.  maybe a rPi will do what you want to do, maybe it won't. it's not without advantage, but it's certainly not without limitations.

you could argue 100 years about what kind of computer to build for mame. and believe me if you search on here, this question is asked weekly.  but at the end of the day the consensus is you want a CPU with a high per core speed and not necessarily high core count.

[lordoxide]

Ok so I am going for the double monitor setup and am going to get the Wells Gardner horizontal, and a 27 or 24 inch vertical, so here is the first run let me know if this looks like it will work.

Monitor 1: Wells Gardner 27", Radeon HD 6450, CRT Emudriver 2.0 - beta 9, GroovyMame
Monitor 2: LG 24/27" 4K IPS w/FreeSync, Radeon RX 460 (FreeSync)

For the monitors am i forgetting anything? I looks like the beta emu driver will work with HD 6450. I think for HLSL the RX 460 should be plenty for 4k, and freesync should give it the best appearance it can for a LCD? Even though its a IPS panel which typically has bad input lag, these are tested in game mode at ~10 ms input lag.

The only other issue I am not 100% certain on is dual video cards, as long as the motherboard has two PCIe, i think this should work, with one with VGA, other with Active DisplayPort for Freesync.

Thanks,
Tom

[lilshawn]

Even though its a IPS panel which typically has bad input lag,

I have an LG IPS that I game on with my rig and don't notice any lag whatsoever. The switch time is also awesome on it. perhaps an IPS tv would have lag since there is typically inordinate amount of processing that goes into TV inputs unless you switch them to "game" mode.

you can output as many ports on 1 card as you have. I operate 4 monitors on my computer (1 HDMI, 2 DVI, and 1 VGA) I don't think 2 will be an issue as long as it has the ports you need (or can be adapted).

[lordoxide]

Ok here is my issue as I am thinking about it, to use CRT emu, I need an ATI card, and for Freesync I need an ATI card, which means only one set of drivers loaded in windows. So if anyone has any experience here it would help.

Option 1: Get a single card, R9 300 is the highest listed compatible card with CRT Emu, and convert one of the DVI's to VGA. With this option, I am not sure if CRT emu still works at 15hz over a DVI to VGA converter but i would have to think so, cause I don't think they make a R9 300 with a VGA out

Option 2: Get the 6450 and R9 300, and run them both with the CRT Emu driver, just only send down 15kz to the 6450, i don't see any reason this won't work, but I haven't used CRT Emu personally yet.

Also does anyone know if the R9 300 is good enough of a card to power HLSL on a 4k display?

Thanks,
Tom

[lordoxide]

For the montior and CRT emu specific discussion I have created a new post here

[DeLuSioNal29]

My only advice is to not spend a ton on the monitor.  I bought a $500 Betson 27" multisync arcade monitor when I built my first MAME machine.  I mean it's great and all, but I still regret blowing a chunk of my budget on it.  I could have put that $$ towards other things on the cabinet.  Lesson learned...

Since then, I've built WAY better machines with cheap CRT's I find at Goodwill or Craigslist.  A 21" CRT looks pretty good in a MAME cab.  Way better than LCD in my opinion.

DeL

[lordoxide]

Delusional,

Sadly (or not I hope) I already grabbed the monitor, its in good shape, it was actually a Benton Imperial (kortek 2914), I got it for $250 at the end of the day, at the moment i am happy with that choice. The vertical monitor is still going to a 4k IPS FreesSync monitor, I am hoping that with FreeSync and HLSL that it will look good, I am waiting for that monitor to get delivered next week. Hopefully I can get both video cards working as expected.

Thanks,
Tom

[lilshawn]

the kortek 2914 is a not bad monitor. It has a max resolution of 800x600@60hz. so be sure you set your computer to output this resolution frequency.

[DeLuSioNal29]

the kortek 2914 is a not bad monitor. It has a max resolution of 800x600@60hz. so be sure you set your computer to output this resolution frequency.

Yup, that's the exact monitor I have.  Good price.

DeL

[rackoon]

My 2 cents (after six custom built cabinets)

build a sit down height cab. You can add a pedestal later if you want. Lets face it, you will end up sitting on tall stools and just have farther to fall if you drink and have a stand up cab.

Build your own control panel. Tank sticks on a cab work but look funky. Also, the control panel is just as important as a cool cab and fun to customize.

Use a decent computer because you may want to play a few demanding games down the road.

the monitor topic is too sensitive to get in to, dont want to piss off any purists. I used a Well Gardner on my second cab and a lcd on all the rest. LCD's are just so easy

[yotsuya]

My 2 cents (after six custom built cabinets)

the monitor topic is too sensitive to get in to, dont want to piss off any purists. I used a Well Gardner on my second cab and a lcd on all the rest. LCD's are just so easy

If it's a scratch build, most purists don't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

[keilmillerjr]

Get an arcade monitor if you can afford it. If your on a budget, get a nice crt tv for free. Done. Don't use an LCD. There is no excuse that you can come up with to justify that it's better than a free crt.

[Mike A]

An LCD is much easier to interface with a PC or a PI. It weighs a fraction of a CRT. It is way thinner than a CRT. There are many reasons to use an LCD. And this is coming from a guy that prefers CRTs.

[keilmillerjr]

An LCD is much easier to interface with a PC or a PI. It weighs a fraction of a CRT. It is way thinner than a CRT. There are many reasons to use an LCD. And this is coming from a guy that prefers CRTs.

False. RPI will work with crt with the change of a single line of code, and the use of the breakout cable. It isn't difficult at all. It was actually supposed to be one of the major selling points. Third world countries have access to a cheap computer.

[Mavric68]

The seller for the Wells Gardner 27" Tri-sync CRT, has tested the monitor it works with no burn-in, he is not sure on the exact model, and has agreed to $275, should I jump on this either way?

Thanks,
Tom

Here's the start of my first build don't laugh im looking at an i5 or an i7 pc as i want it to run new games as well

[rackoon]

Don't give a rat's ass you say Mr. yotsuya.

Well, I stretch some of my fighting games too and I liked it. But. Only when I'm alone in the dark.

[yotsuya]

Don't give a rat's ass you say Mr. yotsuya.

Well, I stretch some of my fighting games too and I liked it. But. Only when I'm alone in the dark.

Dude, you should never drink and post. You always regret it later.

Again, I don't think anybody really cares if someone uses an LCD in a scratch build. It kind of comes with the territory. It's when people pull perfectly working CRTs out of existing games because "I want to make it lighter" or, God forbid, "upgrade it" that we purists get our panties in a bunch.

[Mike A]

Pretty sure I didn't say interfacing the CRT was difficult. I said an LCD was easier. My point still stands.

[Haloman800]

The seller for the Wells Gardner 27" Tri-sync CRT, has tested the monitor it works with no burn-in, he is not sure on the exact model, and has agreed to $275, should I jump on this either way?

Thanks,
Tom

Here's the start of my first build don't laugh im looking at an i5 or an i7 pc as i want it to run new games as well

Dude, that's a sweet build. It looks futuristic and it's also functional because it gives you easier access to the controls.

Are you working off any plans?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[DeLuSioNal29]

Pretty sure I didn't say interfacing the CRT was difficult. I said an LCD was easier. My point still stands.

Just make sure you get a Scanline Generator (SLG) if you go the LCD route. They are cheap and they make  the world of a difference.  You don't need a powerful PC to pull it off either since its hardware based. (unlike HLSL).

[DeLuSioNal29]

Don't give a rat's ass you say Mr. yotsuya.

Well you should...  Yotsuya has won many accolades both here and at Zapcon for outstanding builds.  So he knows what he's talking about.

Plus, he's a cool guy. He just tells you like it is. :-)

DeL

[yotsuya]

Thanks DeL.

And actually, I never said I didn't give a rat's ass. I said most people didn't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- if you used an LCD in a scratch build. I don't think anyone disagrees there

[Mavric68]

The seller for the Wells Gardner 27" Tri-sync CRT, has tested the monitor it works with no burn-in, he is not sure on the exact model, and has agreed to $275, should I jump on this either way?

Thanks,
Tom

No mate just what's in my head added more chrome and speakers today then cooling fan and kettle lead power point .

Here's the start of my first build don't laugh im looking at an i5 or an i7 pc as i want it to run new games as well

Dude, that's a sweet build. It looks futuristic and it's also functional because it gives you easier access to the controls.

Are you working off any plans?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Mavric68]

The seller for the Wells Gardner 27" Tri-sync CRT, has tested the monitor it works with no burn-in, he is not sure on the exact model, and has agreed to $275, should I jump on this either way?

Thanks,
Tom

No mate just what's in my head added more chrome and speakers today then cooling fan and kettle lead power point .

Also the top has gas lifters just waiting for my joysticks ,  buttons and glass to turn up to cut out and fit ,

Here's the start of my first build don't laugh im looking at an i5 or an i7 pc as i want it to run new games as well

Dude, that's a sweet build. It looks futuristic and it's also functional because it gives you easier access to the controls.

Are you working off any plans?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Mavric68]

The seller for the Wells Gardner 27" Tri-sync CRT, has tested the monitor it works with no burn-in, he is not sure on the exact model, and has agreed to $275, should I jump on this either way?

Thanks,
Tom

No mate just what's in my head added more chrome and speakers today then cooling fan and kettle lead power point .

Also the top has gas lifters just waiting for my joysticks ,  buttons and glass to turn up to cut out and fit ,

Here's the start of my first build don't laugh im looking at an i5 or an i7 pc as i want it to run new games as well

Dude, that's a sweet build. It looks futuristic and it's also functional because it gives you easier access to the controls.

Are you working off any plans?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Mavric68]

Power point and glass fitted might alter the ends that stick out from the glass getting there though .

[lordoxide]

Ok the monitor choice was made, I went with the 27" Betson for horizontal, and the 27" LG 4k IPS freesync for vertical. I am designing the cabinet in sketchup now. Even though the outside will be 3/4 MDF, I am still building the internal frame with 2x2's, first because I am a novice, and I find this approach easier, and second if I mess up the design on the outside and I can replace them easily.

Now I am deciding on the controls, its a 4 person cabinet, so I think I am going to go with 4x Sanwa JLF-TP-8YT, and Seimitsu PS-14-GN-KN for the buttons, with plans to use 1/16 plexi or lexan, and at least 1/2 (maybe 3/4) MDF for the panel, I am going to need to route blocks out on the underside of the panel to make sure the button screws fit. I was going to tie it all together with the x-arcade 4 person builders kit, mainly so that if I want to ever use the control with an actual console (long story but is a possibility), they already have all the adapters.

Anything I should change here, am I going about it the right way? I know high quality 8 way controllers are mainly for modern-ish fighters, and can be rough to play classic games like pac-man and donkey kong, but if there is anything that is going to be played competitively amongst my friends it will be Golden Tee, and fighters like Street Fighter. The trade off of slightly annoying play with classic 4 way games, seems worth it. I've considered  8+4 way controllers like the JLW or Ultimarc, but I just can't find either enough info to convince me they are worth it.

I am also having a hard time decided on the buttons for the best mame setup, here is what i am planning now:
4x Player buttons (P1-P4)
5x mame admin buttons (middle back of panel)
1x Coin-in button (probably grouped with admin buttons
Player 1/2: Joystick + 6 buttons
Player 3/4: Joystick + 4 buttons
Trackball
4x pinball buttons, these actually need to be on the top of the panel (can't go on the side due to how i am designing it), so I am thinking just behind and left and right of trackball.

Anything i am missing, or should do differently?

Looking forward to the discussion (and as a reminder, i have never done anything like this before, so woohoo)

Thanks,
Tom

[lordoxide]

So I have started the layout of my control panel, let me know what you guys think or if you have any advice before I commit this design.

Overall Size is 47" x 13"
1" rounded corners
Will have 1" incline
3/4" MDF, with 1/8 Lexan

The black rectangles are the inner most edge of the lower box, and mounting plate for the happ 3" high lip trackball. Golden Tee is going to be played a lot on this, so I needed to keep the drive lane clear of buttons, I am still worried that on a heavy C3 or A1 someone might click the pause or exit. I was not in love with 4 coin and player buttons, so I think I will do any game i can on free play. The single coin button shift idea would work if I could centralize a single button, but I can't.  I could also do the script I've read about that would make the P1/4 buttons first coin up, then act as player start. I think this combined with free play the best option, if there are any other suggestions please let me know.

I thought about mounting coin buttons elsewhere, or having a coin door, but the control panel is going to be 100% self contained in the box, so I won't be able to wire something not on the control panel to it. On that same note, this layout doesn't leave me with the ability for Pinball specific buttons, but even if I could at 47" they couldn't be on the sides of the box, so I am not sure if there is any gain to having them, I assume I could just map buttons from player 1 and 2 to at least have controls on each side.

Final question, is there any need to have dedicated mouse 1/2 buttons? I don't expect to be in windows much, and was hoping I could just have two of the player 1 buttons be mouse buttons when not in mame.

Let me know what you guys think, once I finish up the templates for the joystick controllers and the inner trackball I'm going to start routing and drilling the MDF!

Thanks,

[Justn]

Hey I was in the same boat as you this time last year. No wood working skills never built anything like this before. I dove in and built my first cab from scratch and overall I am very happy with the outcome. I do have lots of things I would of done differently as minor problems came up in the final steps. I actually plan on making a smaller cab later this year using my experiences on the first one. There are lots of experienced people hear who can give you lots of helpful tricks on how to do the right things. but let me know if you need any advice and Ill be sure to tell you things to avoid when building a cab for the first time that happened to me lol. Here are some bad pics of the cabinet after i first moved it upstairs and plugged it in.

[lordoxide]

Justin,

Any advice just to make sure things work out at the end? This cabinet is going to be large, since it will house a 27" arcade monitor horizontal, at normal height, and a vertical 27"LCD at 15 degree angle, almost flat, but I am still stuck on the controls, I decided early on that the control panel would be removable, so I settled on 47" x 13" with 1" rounded corners (3/4" MDF) but all other 4 player panels have the angles like yours, I am starting to wonder if a plain rectangle is going to work or not.

Thanks,