Advice on EPROM programming

[romshark]

So I''m looking into getting an EPROM programmer. Something new to play around with, and do some changes to my Jamma boards. So now I ask: what would be a good programmer that won't break the bank?

Looking around, I've seen I'll probably need to also pick up a UV eraser too.

For the EPROMs themselves: where's a good place to get them? (I'd rather keep the ones I already have on my boards instead of erasing them.)

[romshark]

Does the chip need to just be the same size? Example, my TMNT board uses 8x128Kbit EEPROM 27c010.

Do I need to replace it with another 27c010, or will any 8x128Kbit EPROM do? (like this one).

(Also, does the speed, like the 120 ns, have any affect on using it in the game, or is that the speed it takes to write to it?)

[behrmr]

Buy a programmer that can program devices that you want to program.  Check the compatibility lists for the programmers. I have both a big honking Data IO 29B for older devices and a cheap mini pro USB TL866A pocket programmer for new devices like your 27C10's.  The cheap chinese EPROM erasers seem to work fine but sometimes take a little longer to erase things.   It's probably best to replace the 27C10 with a 27C10 but manufacturer doesn't matter (as long as your programmer supports it) The speed rating is access/read speed.  The speed of the new chip should match or exceed the speed of the original to avoid problems.

[lilshawn]

So I''m looking into getting an EPROM programmer. Something new to play around with, and do some changes to my Jamma boards. So now I ask: what would be a good programmer that won't break the bank?

depends on your budget. I would recommend a "universal" type reader as opposed to a chinese "topXXXX" type that need to use specific reader/writer software.

Looking around, I've seen I'll probably need to also pick up a UV eraser too.

yes. any will do. some might take a little longer. I would personally stick with the fluorescent tube type rather than an LED type. it's more expensive, but will work much faster.

For the EPROMs themselves: where's a good place to get them? (I'd rather keep the ones I already have on my boards instead of erasing them.)

anywhere really. they are all pretty equal. just be sure to get a speed that match or beat the originals (150ns can be replaced with 120 100 75 etc.) don't go slower.

Does the chip need to just be the same size? Example, my TMNT board uses 8x128Kbit EEPROM 27c010.

same size, yes. the board may be able to be modified to accept a larger or smaller chip, but it's not usually worth the time or effort to mod it. mods like this are usually done because chips of a certain size are no longer available. if you look at that page you linked, the original part number is 27c010-12

Do I need to replace it with another 27c010, or will any 8x128Kbit EPROM do? (like this one).

if your original roms are equal or slower than 120ns, then yes, those would do. any brand is fine.

(Also, does the speed, like the 120 ns, have any affect on using it in the game, or is that the speed it takes to write to it?)

it's the speed in which you can pull information from the chip. the chip has a speed that it can switch it's outputs off and on, if it's expecting it to be available for reading in 100 nano and it takes 150 nano to turn on, the data sent to the CPU will be corrupted. ideally you want the fastest possible, but it's limited to the speed of the switching system that is reading it. again, the safe bet is if your original chips are say...150ns, 120,100 etc. are all fine.

some chips can be switched for FLASH ROM's. (they are mostly pin compatible) then you don't need to light erase them, you can erase them right from the programmer. something like a 28F010 would likely plunk right in. you'd have to check the schematic and see to be 100% sure though

[romshark]

Thanks for the input guys.

I'm thinking maybe around $150 - $200 for the programmer should get me a good one. I'll do more research, of course.

Currently, the ones I'd like to burn are for my Konami boards (TMNT, TMNT2, Simpsons, and X-Men. All to change region/number of players) as well as if I need any more BIOS chips for my Sega Naomi. I would like to be prepared if I do get any other games and need to burn chips for them.

I might try to also replicate the security chips for my Naomi GD-ROM discs, if they work the same way, though I won't sweat it if they're difficult/impossible.

I would personally stick with the fluorescent tube type rather than an LED type. it's more expensive, but will work much faster.

Good to know. I'll try to find a flourescent type.

The speed of the new chip should match or exceed the speed of the original to avoid problems.

just be sure to get a speed that match or beat the originals (150ns can be replaced with 120 100 75 etc.) don't go slower.

Also good to know in case I have problems IDing a chip. I'll just get the fastest chip I can if I can't look it up or find any data at all online.

[DeLuSioNal29]

I'd suggest buying the GQ-4X programmer.  It's worked on everything I've tried it on.  It's USB and runs on modern PCs with windows (not a Mac or MS DOS).  No power adapter required (it's powered by USB port).

I'd recommend buying fresh chips instead of using the originals.  In my experience the fresh ones work better to program.  The old ones on the board can be stubborn at times.  Just simply type in the chip numbers in an ebay search.  They usually come directly from China but they are dirt cheap.

GQ-4X programmer:  http://amzn.to/2kQyPqa

UV Eraser:  http://amzn.to/2jRDiJ0

I made a video walkthrough on using it here:  ! No longer available

Good Luck!

DeL

[romshark]

Cool, I'll look into it. Thanks for the video too. It'll help me make sure I'm doing thing right.

Yeah, I plan to keep the chips that came with my boards, just save them in a safe place. I'll buy new chips for my programming needs.

[romshark]

Placed my order earlier for the programmer and eraser that DeLuSioNal29 recommended, after researching that it will handle the chips I need to program. I also ordered some new chips from eBay.

The programmer should arrive on Tuesday. However, the chips are coming from China and Hong Kong, and will probably take a lot longer to get here. The eraser is also coming from China, and is estimated to be a month or more (I'm betting even new chips should be erased first before programming).

At least I can get the programmer hooked up and software installed. Maybe I can dump some of my current chips and compare them to the ones in my MAME romset for practice while I wait.

[romshark]

Ok, so everything has been here for a while. I finally had some time to start practicing burning chips.

First, I decided to try to replace just a single chip on my TMNT board (it's not broke. Just wanted to try burning one.) So I unzipped tmnt.zip from my MAME ROM directory. Picked a chip (k17) and followed DeLuSioNal29s video. Burning it went smooth.
However, when I put it in my board, I17, K17, and J15 came up bad. I put the original chip in, and the board booted up OK.
So I'm thinking I picked the wrong ROM set. Oh well. It was just a test (I'm really going to replace all the needed chips to make it the 2-player Oceania version.)

So I decided to try on my X-Men board, since it's just 2 chips to replace. Burned the 2-player version (it's currently the 4-player) and put the chips in. And...one unrelated chip reported bad. Thought about it for a few seconds, then I powered it on while holding the test button on the board. This cleared the EEPROM, and the board booted right up.

So that's all I could do before going into work. I haven't tried the UV eraser yet (I've plugged it in and it lights up, but haven't actually erased any chips.) But I think I've got this down OK (for now). Thanks guys!

[DeLuSioNal29]

Have fun!  It's a blast. Mine paid for itself already.
I'm in the process of reverting a Turbo Outrun back to Outrun rev B. I forgot how fun it is.
Make sure you get a labeler to cover the Windows after burning. In a pinch you can use electrical tape.

DeL

[ed12]

i use red or blue "painters-tape"
cheap and dose the trick

ed

[lilshawn]

i just picked up a sheet of avery labels. not sure of the part number but it has like 60 small labels on it. just write the position number and the version on it and stick it on.

i'm not one for tape, it tends to lose its adhesiveness after a while and come off. especially in a hot cabinet.

if you are reusing ROMS, make sure you clean the window off really good. if there is residue from the label on the window it will cast a small shadow on the chip surface and make it more difficult and take longer to erase.