Left handed users and mirroring buttons...?

[Pete Harcoff]

N00b questions here...

I planning to build a 2-player arcade controller geared towards action/fighting games (see the thread here).

First question: If I wanted more than one button on the control panel to activate the same button in MAME, can I just connect both buttons to the same port on the keyboard controller? (I'm planning to use a KeyWiz MAX, btw.)

Second question: I want to make the controller "lefty friendly", so I am planning to include a second set of buttons for the player 2 controls.  Should the button order be mirrored (i.e. from right to left instead of left to right) or should I have the same order as the buttons on the right side of the joystick?  Are there any lefties out there that can help answer this?

[Rocky]

My 2 player panel is mirrored.  The p1 controls (mainly for me) have the joystick on the right, buttons on the left.  The p2 controls (mainly for others) have the standard design of joystick on the left, buttons on the right.

I do not mirror the buttons. bottom left is the same on both. Top right is the same, etc.

YMMV,
Rocky

[jerryjanis]

A lefty friend of mine made it sound as though he's been forced to use the same setup as the righties so now that's what feels natural, so there might not be a need for a lefty set of buttons.

I'm curious to hear what lefties around here have to say about it.

One thing I was noticing during a game of two player marble madness (2 trackballs) is that when the lefty is on the left and a righty is on the right, it's a really tight squeeze.  When they switch, there's a ton of room.

[Tommy Boy]

A lefty friend of mine made it sound as though he's been forced to use the same setup as the righties so now that's what feels natural, so there might not be a need for a lefty set of buttons.

I'm curious to hear what lefties around here have to say about it.

One thing I was noticing during a game of two player marble madness (2 trackballs) is that when the lefty is on the left and a righty is on the right, it's a really tight squeeze.  When they switch, there's a ton of room.

Yep, the right-handed world tamed me a loonnnnnggg time ago.  Right-handed controls now feel completely natural to me.  But the advantage is: once you learn to go right-handed for joystick and spinner control (as a lefty), you become ambidextrous and can make do with any panel orientation.

[Tailgunner]

As a lefty I'll agree with Jerry, we're used to compensating and you'll find the extra buttons go unused for the most part. If there's a lefty in preticular you're concidering this for you might want to ask their preference, but generally speaking the standard layout will be acceptable for either left or right handed players.

[Lance]

I am a lefty to but right handed controls feel fine to me.

[Pete Harcoff]

As a lefty I'll agree with Jerry, we're used to compensating and you'll find the extra buttons go unused for the most part. If there's a lefty in preticular you're concidering this for you might want to ask their preference, but generally speaking the standard layout will be acceptable for either left or right handed players.

I don't know any lefty arcade players personally, but I wanted to have the buttons there just in case.  I figure since I'm putting a lot of time and money into building this thing, a few extra buttons couldn't hurt.  

So my first question remains... Can I hook up multiple buttons to a single port (or whatever it is called) on the key controller?  (i.e. So the buttons on either side of the stick would do the same thing.)

[mahuti]

Yes you can.

I have pinball buttons wired from the same connections as some of the buttons on my cp.

OH, and as a lefty... I wouldn't use lefty buttons. It would feel weird. Or a mouse on the left side, or a left handed guitar, or a left handed pair of scissors.

But hand me a ball, bat, club, pencil, or fork... and I'm left all the way.

Most lefties really fall somewhere in the "mildly ambidextrous" category, so we're not really bothered by stuff on the wrong (right-handed) side I've never really understood two handed items that are made "left" or right.. I mean... if you use a guitar, both hands are working like nuts, so why would one way be left or right. Same argument goes for an arcade machine.

[wpcmame]

Just wire the buttons separatly. It is easy to change the mame settings so that both buttons do the same thing.

Just configure player1 button 1 to be "x" or "y" (where "x" and "y" are the keys that you have assigned to the buttons)

I have configured my 2 player cabinet so that on single player game you can use either joystick/buttons. Left handed players just use the right joystick and the left buttons.

[Spaced Invader]

Just wire the buttons separatly. It is easy to change the mame settings so that both buttons do the same thing.

Just configure player1 button 1 to be "x" or "y" (where "x" and "y" are the keys that you have assigned to the buttons)

I have configured my 2 player cabinet so that on single player game you can use either joystick/buttons. Left handed players just use the right joystick and the left buttons.

  Seems like an awfull waste of inputs to me...it could be done that way...but I wouldn't. Then again, I wouldn't put buttons on both sides of the stick.

Pete, if you have to have both sets of buttons just go with your original idea and wire them to the same spot on the encoder (or from one button set to the other--same result)...and save those extra inputs.

It's just my opinion...but I'm  right.  

[Tiger-Heli]

Just wire the buttons separatly. It is easy to change the mame settings so that both buttons do the same thing.

Just configure player1 button 1 to be "x" or "y" (where "x" and "y" are the keys that you have assigned to the buttons)

I have configured my 2 player cabinet so that on single player game you can use either joystick/buttons. Left handed players just use the right joystick and the left buttons.

  Seems like an awfull waste of inputs to me...it could be done that way...but I wouldn't. Then again, I wouldn't put buttons on both sides of the stick.

Pete, if you have to have both sets of buttons just go with your original idea and wire them to the same spot on the encoder (or from one button set to the other--same result)...and save those extra inputs.

It's just my opinion...but I'm  right.  

Actually, in this case I disagree with Spaced Invader and agree with WPC MAME.

If you do like Spaced Invader says, then you will never be able to use the buttons for separate inputs, they will always activate the same key.  In essence, you are loosing 6 buttons on your CP.

If you do as WPCMAME says, they will act the same in most games, but you will have the option to use them to do other functions in some games, if you wanted to.

This is assuming that you have enough inputs on the KeyWiz for each button to have a separate input.

Regarding the initial question, I am left handed, but arcade controls feel more natural to me with the joystick on the left and the buttons on the right, standard layout.  OTOH, in Centipede, I always ended up crossing over my arms so I could control the t-ball with my left hand and fire with my right.

I also agree with Mahuti - I write and throw with my left hand, use scissors with my right hand (I think there weren't enough right-handed scissors when I was growing up).  I move my mouse to the left side, but I don't like having the mouse buttons reversed b/c then it feels awkward if I need to do something on someone else's computer.

[Ted_Striker]

I am a lefty to but right handed controls feel fine to me.

My brother is a lefty.  The bum is over at my house playing my Mame machine right now.  I keep telling him to build his own but he is cheap .

Here's the quote:

"Tell that guy that lefty's play in the arcade with normal controls so don't waste the buttons.  Control panels with a billion buttons look like @ss"

So to agree, normal controls work fine for all the lefty's I know.

[Pete Harcoff]

Hmm, it appears the lefties here all use normal controls.  I guess I'll re-think having the extra set of buttons in the middle... It does simplify things at least.

'course, I did already order all the buttons for this thing, and now I'll have a whole bunch of extras.  Ah well, I can always build another controller.  

[Spaced Invader]

Actually, in this case I disagree with Spaced Invader and agree with WPC MAME.

That is of course allowed...and you do have a point. I can just think of a lot of better uses for those inputs than duplicate buttons (I like 8 buttons per player and admin buttons). Now I'm on the fence...could I have been wrong...did I misjudge the situation...a mistake...no I'm still right!  

I guess I'll re-think having the extra set of buttons in the middle...

I couldn't agree more with that decision!

Opinions vary!  

And Tiger-Heli did have a very good point...if you do decide to do it think very hard about what you want to include on your panel...AND COUNT YOUR INPUTS--TWICE!

[Tiger-Heli]

Actually, in this case I disagree with Spaced Invader and agree with WPC MAME.

That is of course allowed...and you do have a point. I can just think of a lot of better uses for those inputs than duplicate buttons (I like 8 buttons per player and admin buttons). Now I'm on the fence...could I have been wrong...did I misjudge the situation...a mistake...no I'm still right!  

Let me re-phrase this.  Basically I dislike admin buttons except Pause and Escape, but . . .

The basic goal is to use up all the encoder inputs, and have the functions you want.  KeyWiz has 32 so . . .

If you are using 2 joys, 8 buttons per player, and 8 admin buttons, it's better to repeat the middle buttons before you gave up one of your admin buttons.

If you are using 2 joys, 6 buttons per player, 4 admin buttons, and 8 unused inputs, it's better to have the middle buttons as separate inputs, b/c you might want to use all the buttons for some PC game or sth.

All depends on what you want to do with the cab.

[OSCAR]

I believe that many games are set up such that the primary controls are used by the right hand.  You could argue that on fighter games or games with multiple buttons, the buttons are the 'primary' controls because they require quick, responsive movement and your hand has to move to accurately hit the correct buttons when you need to (ala Defender/Stargate).  This is also true of control panel setups such as Tron & Mad Planets where the joystick is the primary control (on the right) and the spinner is on the left.

On joystick-only games, I find I use my right hand to control the joystick such as on Pac-Man and Bubbles.  I must not be the only one to do this because when you look at Pac-Man cabinets, there is almost always more wear on the left side of the cabinet where people rest their left hand when playing.  When you look at photos of Pac cabinets on eBay, you'll see many sellers don't show the left side of the cabinet because of the excessive wear.  Example pics of a Ms. Pac cabinet currently on eBay:






So make a long story short, most if not all, multiple button layouts are designed with the buttons on the right.  Lefties apparently just have to get accustomed to this layout...  

[Lilwolf]

Yes we do.  I am a leftie and didn't make anything special...

why?

you have to get used to it.

As a side story that kinda fits.  A while ago I was trying to make a full helocopter setup at home... all the proper controls and foot pedals.  Why?  You CAN get a helocopters license now without a pilots license (somewhat new) and I don't want to learn how to fly a plane...

But being left handed I had ALL kinds of trouble finding a lefthanded setup.  I looked and looked... and finally found a newsgroup that would know and asked there.

Well... someone quickly pointed out that I could (and where to look) but doing so will make it so I will learn how to fly my rig...not a helocopter since they all have the same setups..

Anyway.. Realizing he was right... I didn't go that route... I ended up putting it off anyway... (I was hoping to buy a helocopter that a french company sold... small one seater which all pilots really really liked... said it flew like a full size)... Anyway, I ended up getting married and having children instead.....  After that... I couldn't afford basically anything!

[microwrx]

I'm a lefty and don't think I could play a machine with the buttons on the left.  I'd much rather they were on the right.

About the only machine I ever had problems playing left handed were games like Afterburner where the throttle was on the left (well in the cabinet I played as a kid it was anyway) , I had to cross hands and use the throttle with my right hand and the flight stick with my left.

About the only left handed product I can think of that is of any use is left handed scissors.