New guy - first MAME cabinet build...looking for monitor advice

[JDebler]

Hey all!

Short version...building a MAME cabinet with my son.  I started with the simple Vigolix design, but then started making my own changes.

I am to the point where I need to decide on an LCD monitor.

I plan to use it primarily for classic arcade emulation, and secondarily for old console emulation (NES, etc.).  Should I get a 4:3 or 16:10?  I am thinking 4:3 but want advice from the experts.

Second question...should I mount it horizontally or vertically?  I do like to play both horizontal and vertical shoot-em-ups.

Thanks for any advice you can offer!

[Mike A]

Your choices are plentiful. My advice would be to read up other build logs.
Don't bother emulating consoles on an arcade machine. Console games were not designed for arcade controls. Play them on your TV. Get USB game pads and a cheap used PC and you are set.
That will also make it easier to decide what kind of arcade machine you want to build.

This is just my opinion. Many people include console games on their machines, and they are happy with the results.

[yotsuya]

I would leave consoles off as well, but if you're going to play them, then mount the monitor horizontally. And go 4:3.

[Bambam1963]

Your choices are plentiful. My advice would be to read up other build logs.
Don't bother emulating consoles on an arcade machine. Console games were not designed for arcade controls. Play them on your TV. Get USB game pads and a cheap used PC and you are set.
That will also make it easier to decide what kind of arcade machine you want to build.

This is just my opinion. Many people include console games on their machines, and they are happy with the results.

I agree.  I tried to have the arcade and consoles together, but control schemes were a pain.  I am going to do the console games on a retropi.


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[Mike A]

My MAME cab has a vertical oriented monitor with a 4 way joystick and three buttons. It also has a trackball. I cheated and bought the control panel. I learned a lot and it plays the games it was designed to play with no compromises. I am currently planning to build another one. It will play a different collection of games. Don't be lured in by how many games your machine can play. Focus on the games you want to play.

[BadMouth]

Stick with 4:3.  You should be able to find a 19" one cheap or free, which is big enough for a vigolix.

If you want the best of both worlds for shmups, check out the rotating monitor examples in the automated projects subforum:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,108897.0.html
It doesn't have to be automated.
I remember one of the earliest ones had a rope to pull for each direction.

[diggso]

4:3 horizontal. 19 inch will do in nearly all cases. job done.

[leapinlew]

2 player cp?

Since its a wider cp go with the biggest monitor you can get. It'll create black bars for anything outside of 4:3. I like the wider monitors for when I'm using hyper spin

[yotsuya]

2 player cp?

Since its a wider cp go with the biggest monitor you can get. It'll create black bars for anything outside of 4:3. I like the wider monitors for when I'm using hyper spin

He stated he was building a Vigolix, which goes best with a 4:3, but then he states he kinda went his own way with the design, so who knows....

[paigeoliver]

I am not familiar with the Vigolix, but I always suggest to all first time builders to both ask around to their facebook friends and to check their local Craigslists to see if they can score a good working 19-21" CRT PC monitor. The games look way better on them, they cost almost nothing when you can find them, and if it breaks in the future then you can always get an LCD then.

Main reasons you want a CRT. The games look truer to their real form. Crts have essentially no delay between when the signal hits the monitor and when it is displayed on screen. LCDs all have easily measured delays and cheap ones (and large ones) can have delays so large that some games are unplayable.

[Scassidy24]

My build I was having trouble finding a 19" 4:3 but I had a 21" 16:10 which is almost the same with regard to height of the screen.  My arcade machine doubles as the man cave YouTube machine / web browser so we do get full use out of the widescreen monitor. Overlay with a smoked piece of glass and you can't tell where the screen starts/end with relation to the black bezel underneath the glass.  If your having trouble finding a 4:3 monitor see if you ca. Grab a 16:10 21" monitor.  I run SNES emulation on my cabinet as well and it's nice to have but for consoles like N64 you will definitely want those USB game pads. I have a couple n64 USB controllers that are handy and can double as 3rd and 4th player on some arcade games . Not that they get much use that way.
I'm not familiar with vigilogix  but look at your games list and like others say... Don't get caught up in what your machine could do. Build it for the games you want to play.  Ultimately you'll almost never play most of the titles that don't hit that nostalgia chord for you.  If most of the games you plan on playing are uprights the. Go upright. Or vice-versa .  Just my 2 cents.


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[Guywiththegun]

My advice is to not sacrifice what you want to achieve. You may have an easier time finding a 16:10 or even 16:9 which will give you even bigger 4:3 area than an actual 4:3 monitor, and with a fraction of the headache.. 19" would bother me. Way too small.

I wanted it all on my cab. Arcade, Console, PC Games (Street Fighter IV, Injustice, etc.) . . A 16:10 26" gives me 23" 4:3 area for arcade games (with amazing looking CRT effects in Mame and RetroArch). When I switch to Ultra Street IV I get the full experience. It looks stunning. It meets all my needs which is more valuable to me than being a purist.

I do see value in the purist side of it, but at that point I would go for a traditional arcade monitor and call it a day.

In my experience you're gonna have a bad time if you either:

A - Aren't willing to spend a lot of money on a real arcade monitor
B - Aren't willing to go with a 16:9 or 16:10 LCD

Everything in between is a nightmare. Look at my post history to see this documented in 2009!

[BadMouth]

I am not familiar with the Vigolix, but ....

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,119533.msg1267233.html#msg1267233



Quite a few people have built them due to it being a cheap easy design that actually looks decent.
It only requires one 2'x4' sheet of material to build.

CRT would be nice for shmups due to the lack of lag.
It might be hard to incorporate it into that style of design, but Sega did have a cab with a similar style and CRT....


19" is plenty big enough for a 4ft tall cabinet.

[paigeoliver]

That would indeed take a CRT without major modification.

Your 16:9 monitor has to be larger than 27" before it will actually give you a 4:3 play area noticeably larger than that of a 19-21" 4:3 monitor.

[pbj]

Someone ought to take a picture of a Vigolix with a banana.  You know, for scale.

[leapinlew]

 

[yotsuya]

My advice is to not sacrifice what you want to achieve. You may have an easier time finding a 16:10 or even 16:9 which will give you even bigger 4:3 area than an actual 4:3 monitor, and with a fraction of the headache.. 19" would bother me. Way too small.

I wanted it all on my cab. Arcade, Console, PC Games (Street Fighter IV, Injustice, etc.) . . A 16:10 26" gives me 23" 4:3 area for arcade games (with amazing looking CRT effects in Mame and RetroArch). When I switch to Ultra Street IV I get the full experience. It looks stunning. It meets all my needs which is more valuable to me than being a purist.

I do see value in the purist side of it, but at that point I would go for a traditional arcade monitor and call it a day.

In my experience you're gonna have a bad time if you either:

A - Aren't willing to spend a lot of money on a real arcade monitor
B - Aren't willing to go with a 16:9 or 16:10 LCD

Everything in between is a nightmare. Look at my post history to see this documented in 2009!

I picked up a Dell 20 inch 4:3 monitor for $45 shipped this weekend. I'd take that over a widescreen monitor every time.

[leapinlew]

My advice is to not sacrifice what you want to achieve. You may have an easier time finding a 16:10 or even 16:9 which will give you even bigger 4:3 area than an actual 4:3 monitor, and with a fraction of the headache.. 19" would bother me. Way too small.

I wanted it all on my cab. Arcade, Console, PC Games (Street Fighter IV, Injustice, etc.) . . A 16:10 26" gives me 23" 4:3 area for arcade games (with amazing looking CRT effects in Mame and RetroArch). When I switch to Ultra Street IV I get the full experience. It looks stunning. It meets all my needs which is more valuable to me than being a purist.

I do see value in the purist side of it, but at that point I would go for a traditional arcade monitor and call it a day.

In my experience you're gonna have a bad time if you either:

A - Aren't willing to spend a lot of money on a real arcade monitor
B - Aren't willing to go with a 16:9 or 16:10 LCD

Everything in between is a nightmare. Look at my post history to see this documented in 2009!

I picked up a Dell 20 inch 4:3 monitor for $45 shipped this weekend. I'd take that over a widescreen monitor every time.

I'd be happy with that Dell monitor too. I've used a variety of monitors and I guess I'm not really that bothered. I used a widescreen LCD in my golden tee cabinet and to me it looks great. If I used the 20" 4:3 I bet I would have been happy too.

Maybe I'm just happy?

I tell you what I wasn't happy with... a real arcade monitor and a AVGA card. I spent $100's only to get it to kind of work, with some games. I have two 19" arcade monitors that have VGA plugs and I'm happy with both of those.

[yotsuya]

My advice is to not sacrifice what you want to achieve. You may have an easier time finding a 16:10 or even 16:9 which will give you even bigger 4:3 area than an actual 4:3 monitor, and with a fraction of the headache.. 19" would bother me. Way too small.

I wanted it all on my cab. Arcade, Console, PC Games (Street Fighter IV, Injustice, etc.) . . A 16:10 26" gives me 23" 4:3 area for arcade games (with amazing looking CRT effects in Mame and RetroArch). When I switch to Ultra Street IV I get the full experience. It looks stunning. It meets all my needs which is more valuable to me than being a purist.

I do see value in the purist side of it, but at that point I would go for a traditional arcade monitor and call it a day.

In my experience you're gonna have a bad time if you either:

A - Aren't willing to spend a lot of money on a real arcade monitor
B - Aren't willing to go with a 16:9 or 16:10 LCD

Everything in between is a nightmare. Look at my post history to see this documented in 2009!

I picked up a Dell 20 inch 4:3 monitor for $45 shipped this weekend. I'd take that over a widescreen monitor every time.

I'd be happy with that Dell monitor too. I've used a variety of monitors and I guess I'm not really that bothered. I used a widescreen LCD in my golden tee cabinet and to me it looks great. If I used the 20" 4:3 I bet I would have been happy too.

Maybe I'm just happy?

I tell you what I wasn't happy with... a real arcade monitor and a AVGA card. I spent $100's only to get it to kind of work, with some games. I have two 19" arcade monitors that have VGA plugs and I'm happy with both of those.

I would love one of those VGA arcade monitors. I've seen one in action and to me that would be the best of both worlds.

[bowen]

The Dell displays tend to be very colour accurate and clear.

[JDebler]

Thanks for the GREAT advice so far, everyone.  I suppose a bit of clarity is in order.

As mentioned, this is my first time doing anything like this.  I have been wanting to do it for a long time, but you know...taking that first step is the biggest.

I wanted to get an NES Classic just to relive the days of my youth...but since those are a high-value item...
And then I realized I spent just as much time in the arcades...and I like arcade games more anyway...it was time to look into a MAME machine for not much more than what the NES Classics were going for on eBay.  Did some searching around...and yup...I saw the Vigolix plan and thought it would be a quick and easy way to get started. 

After doing some research to confirm my direction, I ordered up a Raspberry PI, a joystick controller, some joysticks and buttons.  Then I went and bought a .50 thick piece of 2' x 4' MDF.  And then I stood next to it and realized that it would be TINY.  I was reading that people were scaling the dimensions up in size to make it bigger, so I did...and then I started tweaking my design and now it looks nothing like the original plan.  Isn't that how it works?

I got the cabinet sides done and got to a point where I needed to define the monitor size to determine the width of the cabinet, which is where I posted here.

Thanks to the advice above, two days ago I ordered a Dell UltraSharp 2007FP for around $40.  I figure it will do nicely.  I'll keep everyone posted.

BTW...where is the best place to post a build log?

Thanks, all!

[BadMouth]

BTW...where is the best place to post a build log?

In the "Project Announcements" subforum.

Please attach the pics to posts in the stickied thread at the top of that forum.
That way, they survive as long  as the site does.
Quite a few really great project threads have had all the pics disappear because they were hosted elsewhere and the OP moved on and forgot about them.
(just get in there an look around, you'll see how it works)

[DeLuSioNal29]

Here's the Vigolix's that I built:
! No longer available

If I were you I'd toss in a vertical LCD in the Vigolix.  You could probably shoehorn that Dell 2007FP 20.1 in there.  By mounting it vertically you will be able to make the profile of the cabinet smaller.

I agree with everyone.  Leave the consoles off.  However, I'm not saying give them up!  Just buy this:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C6Q2GSY/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_9?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A30ZYR2W3VAJ0A

And follow this easy guide to get you going:
! No longer available

Plug it into your TV with USB controllers (wireless even!).  And you're set for your NES fix!

DeL

[yotsuya]

Thanks to the advice above, two days ago I ordered a Dell UltraSharp 2007FP for around $40.  I figure it will do nicely.  I'll keep everyone posted.

BTW...where is the best place to post a build log?

Thanks, all!

[jawhn]

No real reason to post in this thread, other than to say heyooo to Delusional & Yots. 

Yeah, yeah, a rare jawhn sighting. Don't get used to it. 

[yotsuya]

No real reason to post in this thread, other than to say heyooo to Delusional & Yots. 

Yeah, yeah, a rare jawhn sighting. Don't get used to it. 

[DeLuSioNal29]

Like a boss with those Memes Yots!

[paigeoliver]

I also was ultimately unhappy driving CGA mode on arcade monitors and currently run a D9200 arcade monitor in VGA mode.

My advice is to not sacrifice what you want to achieve. You may have an easier time finding a 16:10 or even 16:9 which will give you even bigger 4:3 area than an actual 4:3 monitor, and with a fraction of the headache.. 19" would bother me. Way too small.

I wanted it all on my cab. Arcade, Console, PC Games (Street Fighter IV, Injustice, etc.) . . A 16:10 26" gives me 23" 4:3 area for arcade games (with amazing looking CRT effects in Mame and RetroArch). When I switch to Ultra Street IV I get the full experience. It looks stunning. It meets all my needs which is more valuable to me than being a purist.

I do see value in the purist side of it, but at that point I would go for a traditional arcade monitor and call it a day.

In my experience you're gonna have a bad time if you either:

A - Aren't willing to spend a lot of money on a real arcade monitor
B - Aren't willing to go with a 16:9 or 16:10 LCD

Everything in between is a nightmare. Look at my post history to see this documented in 2009!

I picked up a Dell 20 inch 4:3 monitor for $45 shipped this weekend. I'd take that over a widescreen monitor every time.

I'd be happy with that Dell monitor too. I've used a variety of monitors and I guess I'm not really that bothered. I used a widescreen LCD in my golden tee cabinet and to me it looks great. If I used the 20" 4:3 I bet I would have been happy too.

Maybe I'm just happy?

I tell you what I wasn't happy with... a real arcade monitor and a AVGA card. I spent $100's only to get it to kind of work, with some games. I have two 19" arcade monitors that have VGA plugs and I'm happy with both of those.

[matsadona]

Someone ought to take a picture of a Vigolix with a banana.  You know, for scale.

Something like this?

[Jakobud]

4:3 monitor is better for classic gaming, but the challenge behind that is that (virtually) no one makes 4:3 LCDs anymore so they are becoming more difficult to find.

[bowen]

Those you insistent on monitors should probably read here

[yotsuya]

The way I see it, if you're just planning to run Classics, find a 20" 4:3. They're not hard to find at all. If you're one of those weirdos who want to play modern Steam games on your 30 year old cabinet, find a widescreen monitor that works for you. The end.

[chopperthedog]

I would love one of those VGA arcade monitors. I've seen one in action and to me that would be the best of both worlds.

I took the gamble on 4 TOEI 19" crt's that only sync to 640x480 off CL for 100 bucks and glad I did. Used one in a dead SI cab that I tastefully mame'd and got a couple other projects burning a hole in my head.

Now, to the lcd vs. crt thing. Earlier this summer I dug up my old atari 2600 and did the composite/s-video mod to it and it looked awesome on my lcd TV, but I was playing the games with muscle memory and found myself constantly dying. Sourced out a crt tv on CL and sh!t felt right. If I died during the game, it was my fault. I didn't have that "I know, I f'ing moved" feeling after dying while using the lcd.



You can see the lag between the crt and lcd, didn't matter which connection (i.e. s-video/composite) went to which device and the lcd was in game mode. I also tried the other 2 lcd tv's on my wall + another computer lcd that had s-video in and found the same amount of input processing lag across the board.

If you just want something that you turn on once a month a play some games casually go with lcd, but if you care about actually playing the games without feeling crippled, seek out a crt.



good day.

[Bambam1963]

Your choices are plentiful. My advice would be to read up other build logs.
Don't bother emulating consoles on an arcade machine. Console games were not designed for arcade controls. Play them on your TV. Get USB game pads and a cheap used PC and you are set.
That will also make it easier to decide what kind of arcade machine you want to build.

This is just my opinion. Many people include console games on their machines, and they are happy with the results.

Sound advice.


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[DeLuSioNal29]

There are plenty of 4:3 LCDs out there.  ArrowDirect still has plenty.  And using the code ARROW (I've never seen it expire BTW) you can get a discount and even free shipping at times.
http://arrowdirect.com/search?q#/?_=1&filter.category_hierarchy=Monitors&page=1&sort.quantity=desc&filter.screen_size.low=17&filter.screen_size.high=21

#NOEXCUSE4:3

DeL

[DeLuSioNal29]

Here's a 20" 4:3 LCD for $31 shipped!

Monitor specs:  https://www.cnet.com/products/dell-ultrasharp-2001fp/specs/

[Cynicaster]

I’ve got 2 cabinets, one with 20” CRT computer monitor and one with an old Dell 20” 4:3 LCD computer monitor.  They look somewhat different from one another, but I’m hard pressed to say one of them looks any more or less “authentic” than the other.  Both of them have “unnaturally” sharp edges on the blocky retro graphics. 

At one point I was using a 4:3 CRT television through S-video, and that looked a lot more real than either of the computer monitors, IMO. 

As for lag, I play a lot of games in a pretty focused manner in an attempt to keep getting better scores, etc. and I’ve not ever felt like I was suffering from lag on the LCD setup.  In fact, my high scores are pretty evenly spread out between the two machines. 

For whatever reason, the same cannot be said for my living room TV.  I play console emulators through a PC on that TV, and the lag is terrible.  I’ll be trying to play Super Mario Bros. for example, and I’ll be attempting a running jump over a hole, and my guy will just run off the edge and die because my jump button press doesn’t register in time.  I guess computer LCD’s are faster or something?  Sure seems like it to me.