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Author Topic: So ... 3d Printers....  (Read 82933 times)

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nitrogen_widget

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1040 on: March 28, 2021, 11:28:18 am »
try a heat lamp.
I have this hanging off the top bar on the Z axis with a non-infrared 250W heat lamp.


I use it for ABS prints only and get very little warpage.
however I keep the infill low and increase the shells for most of my prints.

not sure how a 45% infill part would print, but with an enclosure it should keep things from cooling to quickly.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2021, 12:13:34 pm by nitrogen_widget »

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1041 on: March 28, 2021, 03:59:57 pm »
Parts have less warp with gyroid infill, but the surface looks weird like all the shaking from doing the gyroid transfered to the outside. It's only visible under bright light at an angle. Anyways, have just a tiny bit of warp on the corners that probably could be fixed with tabs, but I've wasted enough plastic.  I deemed them good enough.

Started to organize parts and decided the best way to store them until the frame arrives is to go ahead and build sub-assemblies.  Waiting on the frame is actually a good thing, as now I won't rush anything just to get it together.



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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1042 on: March 28, 2021, 04:49:09 pm »
Went ahead and bought the Voron parts from the Print It Forward program.  I'm pretty happy with the quality.  Time to start building.  I will still need to print a lot of the decorative pieces.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1043 on: March 28, 2021, 05:05:49 pm »


Went ahead and bought the Voron parts from the Print It Forward program.

Those look great!
I'm a bit dissapointed in the dull color of the Hatchbox red, but not enough to redo anything.  Yours looks like they have more color.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1044 on: March 28, 2021, 05:16:12 pm »
Yeah I'm still going to have several parts to print.  This is just the standard parts needed to build it so you can print all the other decorative stuff.  It was $115 for these parts but would have been $225 for a full set.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1045 on: March 28, 2021, 09:02:57 pm »
Parts have less warp with gyroid infill, but the surface looks weird like all the shaking from doing the gyroid transfered to the outside. It's only visible under bright light at an angle. Anyways, have just a tiny bit of warp on the corners that probably could be fixed with tabs, but I've wasted enough plastic.  I deemed them good enough.

Started to organize parts and decided the best way to store them until the frame arrives is to go ahead and build sub-assemblies.  Waiting on the frame is actually a good thing, as now I won't rush anything just to get it together.



depending on your slicer adding a top surface skin layer or more top/bottom layers or shells they all use different terms makes them prettier.

after you build the voron, you can reprint them. :)

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1046 on: March 28, 2021, 09:29:49 pm »
...if I only had a frame....

Some of the hardware from boltdepot turned out to be the regular zinc plated instead of black.  Not sure that I paid any attention when clicking through the sourcing guide and ordering.  It wouldn't bother me except that I've gone to the trouble of doing everything by the book down to black rails and frame.  Guess I have a month to replace them or throw in some other silver accents. 

Sub assemblies went together super easy.  T-nuts are just there to keep the bolts with the assembly.


« Last Edit: March 28, 2021, 09:31:51 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1047 on: March 28, 2021, 11:17:00 pm »
I wonder how they did this: pen, maybe?




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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1048 on: March 29, 2021, 01:02:08 am »
Looks like filament, thatís gotta be from a dual extruder printer..


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1049 on: March 29, 2021, 01:06:13 am »
I wonder how they did this: pen, maybe?
Looks like filament, thatís gotta be from a dual extruder printer..
Agreed.

Probably a dual extruder setup based on the very similarly-shaped thin spots in the red at the top and bottom of both O's, the evenly-colored red whisker at the bottom of the V, and the appearance of the other two black parts with red highlights in the original photo.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1050 on: March 29, 2021, 01:10:57 am »
I wonder how they did this: pen, maybe?
Looks like filament, thatís gotta be from a dual extruder printer..
Agreed.

Probably a dual extruder setup based on the very similarly-shaped thin spots in the red at the top and bottom of both O's, the evenly-colored red whisker at the bottom of the V, and the appearance of the other two black parts with red highlights in the original photo.


Scott

By pen, I meant those 3D printing pens that use filament. I've seen some people comment that they use them to fill in gaps.
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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1051 on: March 29, 2021, 01:24:33 am »
By pen, I meant those 3D printing pens that use filament. I've seen some people comment that they use them to fill in gaps.
Given how consistant the thin spots on the O's are, I really doubt it was any kind of manually controlled process.

You need a plastic pooping robot to get that level of precision.   :lol


Scott
EDIT: Here's a closeup of those "thin spots" that happen on the curved parts of the O's and the R where a slicer program might not fill the gap.  Notice that the straight lines of the letters are perfectly straight, even, and filled.  The red straight lines on the right side of the V are also perfectly parallel and evenly spaced with the surrounding black lines.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 02:15:46 am by PL1 »

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1052 on: March 29, 2021, 09:12:58 am »
Yeah its filament.  The guy that shipped me the set was super proud of it.  If you look close enough several of those black parts on the left side have red stripes  on some edges.  I had mixed feelings cause I thought that part looked pretty cool as red and he made it black with the red lettering.  If you look at the PIF Discussion on Discord you can see where I posted the photos and the guy who printed explained how he spent a lot of time with the slicer to get this right.  The photo makes the imperfections stand out worse than they really are.  Those little creases can't even be felt it feels super smooth to the touch.  <queue the That's what she said meme>

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1053 on: March 29, 2021, 11:20:21 am »
Some of the hardware from boltdepot turned out to be the regular zinc plated instead of black.  Not sure that I paid any attention when clicking through the sourcing guide and ordering.  It wouldn't bother me except that I've gone to the trouble of doing everything by the book down to black rails and frame.  Guess I have a month to replace them or throw in some other silver accents. 

Yeah I made the same error.   I got no building done yesterday as planned.  First I couldn't find my package from Bolt Depot.  For some reason my brain was remembering a different box type and shape.  I was going crazy having people help me look and I knew I had only put all deliveries in two places.  On top of a pinball machine and in a crate.  I finally quit and came downstairs later and said well I'm gonna start opening all these  boxes.  Second box I pick up turns out to be a USPS small flat rate box with my bolts sitting on the pinball machine the whole time.  I was like did someone find this and put this here?  They were all like no so I guess I overlooked it the entire time.

Then after seeing your post I look at my bags and 5 of them are silver parts.  I could only find 2 of them in black at Bolt Depot so I went to McMasterCarr and was able to order all but 1 screw type.  Cost a little more because I had to buy lots of 100.  Actually McMasterCarr had that last screw (M3 x 0.8mm x 40mm) but it was $7 for 5 of them and I had bought 30 zinc ones from Bolt Depot for $0.15 apiece.  Bolt Depot only went up to 35mm for that size in black.  I decided I'd rather figure out another way to color those black instead of paying almost $50 to get that one bag of screws.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1054 on: March 31, 2021, 01:02:58 pm »
Started building my Voron frame last night.  Ran into trouble immediately.  The M5 roll in Tnuts I bought from the sourcing list are almost impossible to insert into the MISUMI 2020 rails.  I say almost because I was able to use a screwdriver and bang it with a lot of force to finally get one in.  They slide in from the side just fine but for drop in they are slightly too large.  I ordered a different brand from Amazon so will try those out.  If you build you may want to test them out first because if you know its an issue you could pre-insert them into the rails before you assemble the frame.  I really feel they should be telling folks to do that anyways.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1055 on: March 31, 2021, 01:30:16 pm »
Started building my Voron frame last night.  Ran into trouble immediately.  The M5 roll in Tnuts I bought from the sourcing list are almost impossible to insert into the MISUMI 2020 rails.  I say almost because I was able to use a screwdriver and bang it with a lot of force to finally get one in.  They slide in from the side just fine but for drop in they are slightly too large.  I ordered a different brand from Amazon so will try those out.  If you build you may want to test them out first because if you know its an issue you could pre-insert them into the rails before you assemble the frame.  I really feel they should be telling folks to do that anyways.

Thanks for the heads up.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1056 on: April 01, 2021, 10:16:39 am »
Well learning mistake #2.  I was opening up one of the linear rails from the plastic and I cut along side it so I could pull it out from the wrapping.  But when I went to pull it out the square platform that rolls along the rail snagged on the plastic so the rail pulled out leaving the platform still in the plastic.  It didn't look like a big deal but when I pulled the platform out to look at it all these tiny 1mm bearings fell out into the rug and I'm like WTF.  Took me 30 minutes to fix it.  I used magnets to try to find all the bearings and then inserted them into the slots which they don't hold into very well.  Then as I'm trying to push the rail back in the bearings kept wanting to pop out.  I finally got it though.  Lesson learned do not let that platform come off the end of the rail.  There are rubber inserts on each end to prevent it but that popped right off when I pulled the rail out of the plastic.

Then I began to install the rails and I had the same issue with the M3 roll in T-nuts not fitting into the MISUMI 2020 frame.  I thought I had tested the M3's and saw it working but guess not.  I hadn't ordered any replacements for those.  I did some searching and found several folks complaining in the comments for the T-nuts on aliexpress where the sourcing guide leads you to buy that these are too big for the MISUMI frame.  I also searched and found many folks on Discord having t-nut issues for the Voron.  I finally said screw it and ordered the expensive ones from MISUMI.  Now my damn t-nuts are going to be 10% of the build cost.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1057 on: April 01, 2021, 11:40:02 am »
FYI, you are supposed to degrease and regrease the bearings before install.


If you want to go for the full rebuild.  (you already had them apart).


I've only gotten as far as buying the simple green to soak them.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1058 on: April 01, 2021, 11:43:48 am »
Thanks....I'll look again but was that mentioned in the build guide?

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1059 on: April 01, 2021, 12:07:25 pm »
Thanks....I'll look again but was that mentioned in the build guide?

No.  I wish Nero 3dp had more of these shorter videos to cover the entire build. 
Other good information is there on his channel, but buried in 3.5 hour livestreams that I don't have time to sift through.
Occasionally I will play one in the background while doing other things and pick up useful things.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1060 on: April 01, 2021, 07:57:19 pm »
Wow I've got the worst luck.  The guy that printed my parts messaged and says he accidentally used old files so he needs to reprint them and it will be 2-3 weeks.  Told me to throw away all those parts I showed you guys.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1061 on: April 02, 2021, 12:33:31 pm »
Wow I've got the worst luck.  The guy that printed my parts messaged and says he accidentally used old files so he needs to reprint them and it will be 2-3 weeks.  Told me to throw away all those parts I showed you guys.

That sucks.
but at least he reached out to you.



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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1062 on: April 02, 2021, 01:25:11 pm »
Told me to throw away all those parts I showed you guys.

I bet most of them are still usable. 

Looking at them, the power inlet panel is for the separate switch and filtered inlet option.
Did you buy the filtered power inlet, or the regular inlet/switch combo we all use on arcade machines?
(you might need to clarify with him which one you need)

I bought the regular unfiltered one, but am thinking that the center of the back of the machine isn't the most convenient location for the power switch so I may move the switch to the back corner.

EDIT: If you bought everything on the sourcing guide around the same time I did, you probably have both.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 01:37:19 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1063 on: April 03, 2021, 10:28:40 am »
Looking at them, the power inlet panel is for the separate switch and filtered inlet option.
Did you buy the filtered power inlet, or the regular inlet/switch combo we all use on arcade machines?
(you might need to clarify with him which one you need)

I bought the regular unfiltered one, but am thinking that the center of the back of the machine isn't the most convenient location for the power switch so I may move the switch to the back corner.

EDIT: If you bought everything on the sourcing guide around the same time I did, you probably have both.  ;)

Thanks for catching that I didn't even notice.  I'm not even sure the one I bought would fit either one I was going to have to wait and see.  I do not believe I bought both because by the time I got to those parts I was following the BOM and only using the sourcing guide to find where to buy.  I remember being quite confused by what they wanted me to get for the power inlet.  I ended up buying this one and figuring I might need to design and print my own part.  I liked this one because it fit my black/red theme.

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/FN9289-10-06/817-1693-ND/3516716

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1064 on: April 03, 2021, 11:34:46 am »
Looking at them, the power inlet panel is for the separate switch and filtered inlet option.
Did you buy the filtered power inlet, or the regular inlet/switch combo we all use on arcade machines?
(you might need to clarify with him which one you need)

I bought the regular unfiltered one, but am thinking that the center of the back of the machine isn't the most convenient location for the power switch so I may move the switch to the back corner.

EDIT: If you bought everything on the sourcing guide around the same time I did, you probably have both.  ;)

Thanks for catching that I didn't even notice.  I'm not even sure the one I bought would fit either one I was going to have to wait and see.  I do not believe I bought both because by the time I got to those parts I was following the BOM and only using the sourcing guide to find where to buy.  I remember being quite confused by what they wanted me to get for the power inlet.  I ended up buying this one and figuring I might need to design and print my own part.  I liked this one because it fit my black/red theme.

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/FN9289-10-06/817-1693-ND/3516716

Looks like the standard size mounting hole so I think you'll be ok...provided they print the piece for the non-filtered inlet. 
I think they switched away from the filtered inlet somewhere in the revisions on the way to 2.4, but the STL files still have both options.

I put together the carriage and extruder this morning.  No word on the rails which aren't supposed to ship until 5/5.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1065 on: April 03, 2021, 12:06:52 pm »
I put together the carriage and extruder this morning.  No word on the rails which aren't supposed to ship until 5/5.

I remember from when I joined this thread you were saying that delivery date was so far out.  That's why I got surprised my rails arrived so fast.  Did you not order from MISUMI?

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1066 on: April 03, 2021, 01:35:49 pm »
I put together the carriage and extruder this morning.  No word on the rails which aren't supposed to ship until 5/5.

I remember from when I joined this thread you were saying that delivery date was so far out.  That's why I got surprised my rails arrived so fast.  Did you not order from MISUMI?
Yeah.  When I ordered the lead time for black pre-drilled/cut extrusion was that far out.  Last time I checked, the product page showed 4/15.  I tried the online chat to see if I could get my order moved up, but the customer service person didn't respond to the question.  I could have had it right away if I'd bought silver/clearcoat. 

I had some silver extrusion on hand, but did not trust myself to cut any pieces longer than my table saw sled allows.  I ended up chopping those up into a smaller voron 1.8 frame.  Haven't printed any parts for that yet.  It will be more about using leftover parts and what I have on hand rather than strictly following the plan like I am doing with the 2.4.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1067 on: April 03, 2021, 01:45:01 pm »
Yeah I ordered black predrilled cut extrusions as well and I believe I ordered after you did.  It shipped within a week.  Only difference might be I ordered for 300mm frame but I can't see that being the reason.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1068 on: April 05, 2021, 07:31:16 am »
When I started on the Voron project, I didn't realize that the printhead assembly that holds the hotend and cooling duct can be swapped out fairly easily.
It's just a matter of backing out two bolts to flip the fan up, two bolts to free the printhead, and disconnecting two wiring connectors.

The V6 on the monoprice mini select was having underextrusion issues with PLA.
After some testing and research I believe that the PLA is sticking to the inside of the stock V6 heat break when retracted far enough to pull melted plastic up that far.
The extruder on the mini isn't good enough to overcome the resistance.  If I give the plastic a pull and a push things start flowing again. 
I reduced retraction to 2mm.  The problem went away, but now I have stringing.

So I ordered some ptfe lined heatbreaks.  Also ordered one with a 4.1mm bore that allows the bowden tube to be all the way against the nozzle itself, but have to wait for that one to get here from China.

Where this pertains to the Voron having swappable printheads is that I now plan to make a separate printhead for PLA and maybe a third with a larger nozzle.
Heater cartridge and thermistor will need to be the same type on each since those are set in the firmware.

For anyone planning a future build, it will require two more M3x40 and two more M3x16 cap head bolts per printhead (in addition to the extra hotend/thermistor/heater).
The V6 clone from Trianglelab makes it fairly cheap to add an extra printhead.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 10:01:37 am by BadMouth »

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1069 on: April 05, 2021, 11:23:42 am »
Yeah, thatís pretty cool. I have mine built, I just need to take the time to swap it on to my machine.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1070 on: April 07, 2021, 09:27:02 pm »
Hey Gilrock, got a tip for you.

I degreased and regreased my robotdigg linear rails this evening.
They seemed fine out of the package, but I am trying to follow the Voron way to the letter.
They didn't seem any better and maybe a bit worse afterward.  There were spots they bogged down or hung up slightly.
After trial and error and close inspection I discovered small spots in the channels the bearings ride in (on the rail) that didn't look like anything more than grease.
Those were the points where the carriage was sticking though.

After clearing the channels until absolutely nothing was visible the carriages fall freely from one end to the other.
I cleaned them by pushing the carriage to one side and then wiping the channel with my fingernail covered by a paper towel.  Always away from the carriage and always all the way past the end.
Repeat for the opposite direction.  Not sure if I was just clearing excess grease or there was tiny tiny debris mixed in, but I feel a lot better about the performance of the rails now.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1071 on: April 08, 2021, 08:24:59 am »
Well I didn't talk about it but dude I already disassembled, degreased and re-greased 8 rails last Saturday.  It was 5-6 hours work.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1072 on: April 13, 2021, 09:14:43 am »
Yeah I ordered black predrilled cut extrusions as well and I believe I ordered after you did.  It shipped within a week.  Only difference might be I ordered for 300mm frame but I can't see that being the reason.

This was the difference.
I had forgotten but the longest lead time was on the uprights which are 530mm on the 350x350.  I'm guessing Misumi didn't have any 1000mm in stock to cut to length, but did have 500mm (or at least expected it in in stock sooner).  The lead time on the HFSB5-2020-530-LCP-RCP uprights is now June.  Hopefully I still get mine early May.

The Mega has been doing a pretty good job cranking out ABS parts, so I went ahead and printed the rest of the parts including the skirts.
There isn't much more that I can assemble without the frame. 
It has been nice to work on it without there being any rush.

I may try to go ahead and set up the software which is going to be my least favorite part.

Gilrock

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1073 on: April 13, 2021, 10:16:30 am »
Yeah I received my re-printed Voron Print It Forward parts.  He didn't do the dual-color thing on the reprint.  I also received the MISUMI roll-in t-nuts and they actually work after the previous 2 orders failing to fit.  I wasted so much money on t-nuts.  And I got my IGUS chains.  That was an ordeal to order.  First IGUS emails and says they don't have what I want in stock but they have an alternative that bends the opposite way.  I said no I either want everything I've ordered or a refund.  Then they email that they can backorder the items if I want so I respond how long would a backorder take.  They email back and said 4-5 weeks.  I replied that is fine and then the darn order shows up in less than 2 weeks.  I've had too many other things going on to continue the build yet.  Part of the problem is I really have nothing I want to print when its done I just wanted to build one...lol.

BadMouth

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1074 on: April 13, 2021, 10:49:37 am »
Yeah I received my re-printed Voron Print It Forward parts.  He didn't do the dual-color thing on the reprint.  I also received the MISUMI roll-in t-nuts and they actually work after the previous 2 orders failing to fit.  I wasted so much money on t-nuts.  And I got my IGUS chains.  That was an ordeal to order.  First IGUS emails and says they don't have what I want in stock but they have an alternative that bends the opposite way.  I said no I either want everything I've ordered or a refund.  Then they email that they can backorder the items if I want so I respond how long would a backorder take.  They email back and said 4-5 weeks.  I replied that is fine and then the darn order shows up in less than 2 weeks.  I've had too many other things going on to continue the build yet.  Part of the problem is I really have nothing I want to print when its done I just wanted to build one...lol.

I haven't tested my T-nuts yet.  Just loaded up a cart at Misumi and by the time shipping is added it will be over $100.   :o
I think I'll do my best to pre-load the ones I have.   I am not above taking them to the grinding wheel either.



Gilrock

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1075 on: April 13, 2021, 11:09:59 am »
Yep they are about $100 from MISUMI.  I grinded a few t-nuts on the belt sander and then said screw this.  Don't know why everyone is always trying to save money I feel good when I spend it...lol.

BadMouth

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1076 on: April 13, 2021, 10:40:13 pm »
Tried the roll in T-nuts.  The M5 are fine, but the M3 have no chance of working properly.  Both are from "Change da Store" on Ali Express.  The M5 have more of a triangular shape that does not have any clearance problems.   I had some M4 ones from Polis3D on Amazon from a different project.  They are also the triangular kind.  Ordered a 100pc bag of M3 from there hoping they will be the same design.  At least I can return those if they do not fit.  I will still preload as many of the fat ones as I can think to.  Thank you for the heads up.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 10:46:56 pm by BadMouth »

Gilrock

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1077 on: April 14, 2021, 09:15:14 am »
That's what's weird I also ordered all my original t-nuts from "Chang da Store" and neither my M5 or M3 would fit.  I saw others in Discord saying they had the same experience as you where M5 would fit.  It would be nice if the instructions would just tell us how many to preload in each rail section.  Funny I don't mind spending the $100 for t-nuts to a save some frustration but I get pissed when Digikey splits up my order into 4 different deliveries charging me shipping on every one.  I got a package yesterday that had pins that cost 44 cents and charged me $7 shipping.  I didn't even notice they had been backordered.  Not sure if I missed it but if they have an option to not split up the deliveries it could save you some shipping but there was like a month difference between my first and last delivery from them.