Control Selection

[velcrobomb]

Hi all.  I've been lurking a while and I'm just about ready to start my first cabinet.  I plan to incorporate quite a few ideas I've gathered from several of you.  I want this to be a very diverse cabinet.  I have questions about what type of hardware to purchase with respect to Joysticks and Buttons.
A few things about my ideas:

• The cabinet base will probably be like the Simpsons or maybe Gauntlet.
• Interchangeable control panels.  The first CP will be a 4-stick with the standard 4-6 buttons for each stick.  Thereafter, I'll want to recreate CPs for specific games such as Tron, Tempest, Missle Command, etc...
• The monitor will be able to pull out and rotate 90° for portrait/landscape orientation.  I also want the mount base of the monitor to be able to tilt on an axis so I can adjust it down for games like Golden Tee where I can hit the trackball hard without hitting the screen.

Since the primary CP will be fairly standard to play a lot of games, I'd like some recommendations on sticks/buttons to purchase.
From what I understand, leaf switch buttons and sticks are the way to go for quietness and feel but they seem to be scarce.  Have micro-switch buttons become just as good?

I don't think I see see a way around getting a keyboard encoder for buttons, but should I go with optical encoder boards or just go straight USB for trackball/spinner and analog sticks?

[PL1]

I don't think I see see a way around getting a keyboard encoder for buttons, but should I go with optical encoder boards or just go straight USB for trackball/spinner and analog sticks?

Just to clarify about encoders:

  - Buttons/4-way joysticks/8-way joysticks use either keyboard-style or gamepad-style encoders.

  - Spinners/trackballs/360 degree steering wheels use optical encoders.

  - Analog joysticks/Star Wars yokes/analog pedals/270 degree steering wheels (anything with a potentiometer) use analog encoders.

  - Mechanical rotary joysticks with a 12-position rotary switch (LS-30 from Ikari Warriors) use rotary encoders.

Some encoders are hybrids that combine more than one type of encoder into one device -- for example, the U-HID converts inputs from switches, analog axes, optical axes, or rotary switches into keystrokes, gamepad buttons, gamepad axes, mouse axes, and/or mouse button outputs.

The design process outlined in the FAQ shows a logical progression that you may find useful for designing your control panels.


Scott

[velcrobomb]

Very much appreciated PL1.  Just from your reply it appears that I'll need multiple encoders for this cabinet.  I'll read up and see if I can get my head wrapped around what I want to do.

Cheers!

[PL1]

As always, it depends on your "gotta have it" game list and how many player positions you actually need.
(Do you really need a 4-player panel or can you use the 2-player ROMs for Gauntlet, Simpsons, etc.?)

If your list requires just buttons, 4/8-way sticks, a spinner and a trackball for controls, you might be able to cover that on one 2-player panel with a new I-Pac.


Scott

[paigeoliver]

From what I understand, leaf switch buttons and sticks are the way to go for quietness and feel but they seem to be scarce.  Have micro-switch buttons become just as good?

No if anything they are worse than they used to be. It used to be all you could really get were decent microswitch buttons with real Cherry switches. Now nothing has cherry switches anymore and there are about 20 bad choices out there in addition to the good ones, and the copies of the good ones, and the third generation copies of the good ones. Not to mention the third generation copies of the bad ones.

[velcrobomb]

I hear what you're saying PL1.  Do I actually need 4 positions?  I don't know.  I'm nostalgia'ing and I'd like for my kids to experience that too.  I don't necessarily need a 4-position right off the bat but I figured it would be the biggest panel and a good start for an interchangeable-panel cabinet.  My thinking is that if I can accommodate a 4 position panel I'd get the interface I would need for just about anything.

However, what you said about the various types of encoders put some perspective and immediately changed my outlook on my approach.  I assumed that the trackballs, spinners and analog joysticks had built-in encoders and USB would just take care of that for me.

Although I haven't made an official 'must have' list of games, I've been thinking more in terms of making additional panels for it later on rather than try and build a frankenpanel.  I have ideas on how to standardize on a control panel base so that it will be easily interchangeable and I'll be able to map most controls using a quick-connect like an RJ21 male/female connector or a couple of large molex male/female pairs.

[velcrobomb]

No if anything they are worse than they used to be. It used to be all you could really get were decent microswitch buttons with real Cherry switches.

So are good arcade buttons a thing of the past?  I'm relying on the community's experience here to narrow down some choices of what to buy.  I do not yet own any  arcade controls yet and I want to get good stuff.  The software and the cabinet portions of this build will be tough but I have some help. The arcade controls market is foreign to me and I'd rather not do trial and error since this build is going to be enough of a beast as it is.

I was looking at the buttons on focusattack.  they have a dx44 Cherry switch option.  I'm assuming these are not the originals that you mentioned.

[PL1]

I assumed that the trackballs, spinners and analog joysticks had built-in encoders and USB would just take care of that for me.

Some do, some don't.   

Although I haven't made an official 'must have' list of games, I've been thinking more in terms of making additional panels for it later on rather than try and build a frankenpanel.

The list will help you figure out what controls you need -- no list = no clear plan = high probability of failure or wasted resources.

Good call on avoiding a Frankenpanel.   

The (minor but possible) downside to USB is windows renumbering  your gamepad/analog interfaces, but Drventure's ControllerRemap for Mame and Stigzler's ControllerRemap GUI or the version incorporated into the latest MAME should help you work around that.

You may find it easier to mount the encoder(s) to the removable panel and use USB cables for the disconnect instead of a multi-pin molex.


Scott

[paigeoliver]

Good buttons aren't a thing of the past, it is just that in the past you had to really try pretty hard to buy a bad button, as all anyone stocked was the standard Happ buttons with cherry switches.

Now there are dozens of made in China options and their quality is all over the place.

For microswitch buttons I go with the safe route, real happ buttons from a trusted vendor and not from ebay (too many lookalikes and clones on ebay). The microswitches they ship with them today aren't cherries, but they pretty much feel the same and I haven't had one fail yet. Come to think of it I have never had a new microswitch fail on me, and I have installed thousands of them.

No if anything they are worse than they used to be. It used to be all you could really get were decent microswitch buttons with real Cherry switches.

So are good arcade buttons a thing of the past?  I'm relying on the community's experience here to narrow down some choices of what to buy.  I do not yet own any  arcade controls yet and I want to get good stuff.  The software and the cabinet portions of this build will be tough but I have some help. The arcade controls market is foreign to me and I'd rather not do trial and error since this build is going to be enough of a beast as it is.

I was looking at the buttons on focusattack.  they have a dx44 Cherry switch option.  I'm assuming these are not the originals that you mentioned.

[velcrobomb]

So, my new paradigm after listening to you guys in this thread was to visualize what I want to play in the MAME cabinet.  Please feel free to criticize my ideas as I lay them out

Remember I want versitile, but I also want to be true to the original game play.  My base upright cabinet design is a cross between The Simpsons and Mortal Kombat.  I chose the Simpsons because it will give me a wide control-panel base for use when I make my 4-Player panel.  The picked MK because of the angle of the monitor as you play.  Also, the design of the Control Panel base fits nicely and will be a good generic base for, I believe, any CP I can think of.  I've drawn up some preliminary plans to my cabinet.

The CP base will slide in on drawer guides and fasten in.

As far as encoders go, I think I need to go with the I-PAC Ultimate I/O.  I plan on mounting the encoder in the cabinet and wiring it up using an RJ-21 breakout cable.  This would give me 50 pins to work with and I can break them out to RJ-45 plugs and have the jacks mounted in the control panel base to connect to.  1 connector for optical, 1 for trackball and the 3rd and 4th for sticks and buttons of different kinds. (Just some preliminary thoughts) Only issue with RJ-21 cable is that it is 24 gauge.  Maybe this isn't an issue?

So, with all that said, I want my first panel to be a Tron panel.  I was originally thinking of making a DOT combo panel but the restrictor bumper is different and I see no easy way around this.

I plan to buy the Happ Heavy Duty 8-way Trigger Stick to mod into a true-to-form Tron Stick.  Are there sources cheaper than Happ that I can get this stick?
I bought the replica handles, trigger and plate from GGG and the restrictor bumper from arcadefixit.

What about this Grommet at arcadefixit? I think I should replace the Happ with this one since it provides the original 35lbs of force.

Finally, I cannot find any drawings of the Tron cabinet online.
Does anyone have the dimensions of the Tron Control panel?  Just rough dimensions are fine. Particularly, what is the angle that the panel tilts?