Building a new Ms Pacman Cocktail - My list of questions...

[JLS2016]

Hi! I was referred here from some on another forum. I'm trying to build an "almost" replica of my Ms Pacman cocktail. I'm brand new to the arcade hobby so I'm just learning here...

I assume the actual Ms Pacman board isn't made any longer correct? So I would need to buy a used one? Where is the best and/or cheapest place to find these? I'm not in love with multi-game stuff which I believe is all the jamma stuff...

What other electronic components do I need? The power supply I'm sure. I'm wanting to do an lcd though because I'm not the most comfortable messing around near the high voltage stuff...

Thanks!

[wp34]

Welcome to the forum!

I built an almost replica of a Pac Mac cocktail a few years ago.  Here is a list of the parts I purchased including vendor and 2014 prices.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,136690.msg1414905.html#msg1414905

You are correct that the MS Pac Man board is not made any longer.  You would probably have better luck finding a board over on the KLOV forum.

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/

The multi-PCB's out there have a lot of faults but they actually play the Pac Man games fairly well.

[harveybirdman]

CRT will be more fun and easier if you want to use original or bootleg hardware.

I'd start with a mrs pacman pcb search on eBay and consider getting a jamma adapter so you can swap out other games in the future.


Read a lot, I've ruined boards trying to fix things that weren't even wrong.  You can never research enough before doing.

[JLS2016]

Thanks for all the info & welcome guys!

So if I hunt down an original game board then what will I have to buy to make it compatable with an LED or LCD? I want it as close to the original as I can get but I just don't know that I wanna be playing with CRT's. I mean, I get the nestalga but I already have that in my original ms pacman cocktail that I've been restoring and plan to keep.

[behrmr]

Pacman/Ms. Pacman PCB's are pretty easy to find and you should be able to get one for around $100 shipped.  Ask around on Facebook groups, here, and on KLOV forums.   There are bootlegs out there so just decide what you want and make sure you get it.  Some of the bootlegs are fine, and I believe a couple of them do not work in cocktail mode.  Just be sure you're getting a board silk screened with "Midway" if you want an original.

As far as the electronics needed the easiest route to go would be to buy or make a JAMMA adapter.  Your power supply would be a standard arcade "switching power supply" and you could just use a cheap JAMMA harness.   

Good luck with your LED/LCD conversion unless it's an actual arcade LCD with RGB input. I've never done it because I prefer a standard res/CGA CRT but my understanding is that you may have some trouble with pacman PCB's syncing with the Gonbes converters (because a lot of them are now copies of copies).  You may need to find a very specific version of one that isn't the normal knockoff.  I believe it is tied to a fixed firmware version that was developed after the knockoffs became prolific.  Just do a little research on that before you buy any parts.  Hopefully someone more versed in CGA to LCD conversions on Midway hardware can help.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Alternatively, you can always run Retropie on a Raspberry Pi 3.  Then configure it to run MAME Ms. Pacman or any other games.  You would get much better results than a 60 in 1 board both sound and emulation wise.  Plus the Raspberry Pi 3 has an HDMI output for an LCD monitor.

The only tricky part here is finding an LCD that is 4:3 and had a good viewing angle from both sides.  Here's one at Arrowdirect that fits the bill: ($47.02 with free shipping after using coupon code "ThankYou10")   
http://arrowdirect.com/samsung-syncmaster-940be-21.html

HDMI to DVI adapter:
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-DVI-D-Video-Cable-Adapter/dp/B009YCASUW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1475075684&sr=8-3&keywords=hdmi+to+dvi+adapter

Here's some spec info on the Raspberry Pi 3:
https://www.adafruit.com/products/3055

Here's where to buy a complete Raspberry Pi 3 kit:
https://www.amazon.com/CanaKit-Raspberry-Complete-Starter-Kit/dp/B01C6Q2GSY/ref=sr_1_3?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1475075831&sr=1-3&keywords=raspberry+pi+3

Best of luck!

DeL

[yotsuya]

Alternatively, you can always run Retropie on a Raspberry Pi 3. 

[JDFan]

The only tricky part here is finding an LCD that is 4:3 and had a good viewing angle from both sides.  Here's one at Arrowdirect that fits the bill: ($47.02 with free shipping after using coupon code "ThankYou10")   
http://arrowdirect.com/samsung-syncmaster-940be-21.html

DeL

Not a big difference but pennies count so rather than thankyou10 us Bonus13 ! ( gets 13% off rather than 10% and still free shipping !

ANd I'd actually go with the HP2065 which is a 20" IPS rather than 19" for just $3-4 more ($50.42 after discount )

http://arrowdirect.com/hp-compaq-na-lp2065-21.html

[DeLuSioNal29]

Not a big difference but pennies count so rather than thankyou10 us Bonus13 ! ( gets 13% off rather than 10% and still free shipping !

ANd I'd actually go with the HP2065 which is a 20" IPS rather than 19" for just $3-4 more ($50.42 after discount )

http://arrowdirect.com/hp-compaq-na-lp2065-21.html

+1   

DeL

[yotsuya]

I like your goal of staying original. You can get a PCB on KLOV easily. I know I did. My Ms Pac-Man is running a Pac-Man PCB with a 6 in 1 kit I got on KLOV. No emulation for me.

[JLS2016]

Wow, thanks everybody for such detailed posts. Honestly, if I was making a game for my own personal use I would have fun toying with different emulators etc. I'm a front end web developer and love to toy with different programming languages in hopes to be decent at them someday too etc. Heck, I've wanted to get into robotics as a hobby so my eyes perked up when i noticed Ardenio mentioned in topics here

But, this particular machine I'm going to build just for the fun and knowledge and then sell on Craigslist (personal sale not as a business) because I already have an original. In my own head, heart, and understanding I feel I'm most comfortable passing on a machine that's using Midway's branding etc if I fairly have an original board in it so it's like a sophisticated refurb with an updated modern monitor that at some point the true companies had got paid for then a knockoff.

So that being said, are any of those displays capable of hooking to an original board? Or if not, which "arcade" monitors would without a huge hassle? I'd like to keep it cheap but I care about quality more... Thanks!

[behrmr]

Wow, thanks everybody for such detailed posts. Honestly, if I was making a game for my own personal use I would have fun toying with different emulators etc. I'm a front end web developer and love to toy with different programming languages in hopes to be decent at them someday too etc. Heck, I've wanted to get into robotics as a hobby so my eyes perked up when i noticed Ardenio mentioned in topics here

But, this particular machine I'm going to build just for the fun and knowledge and then sell on Craigslist (personal sale not as a business) because I already have an original. In my own head, heart, and understanding I feel I'm most comfortable passing on a machine that's using Midway's branding etc if I fairly have an original board in it so it's like a sophisticated refurb with an updated modern monitor that at some point the true companies had got paid for then a knockoff.

So that being said, are any of those displays capable of hooking to an original board? Or if not, which "arcade" monitors would without a huge hassle? I'd like to keep it cheap but I care about quality more... Thanks!

Keeping it "original" inside and converting the video to LCD, stuffing it in a custom cabinet, and flipping it, doesn't seem to add a lot of value to the equation.  If you were keeping it then the value goes up because YOU want original game play.   But since this is a flip put a 60-in-1 PCB in it and a used computer LCD and call it a day.  Save the original parts for restorations and repairs of dedicated machines.   You'll make more money (by not spending as much) that way.  Besides the CL masses are looking for multi games anyway.

[JLS2016]

I'm afraid to turn this too much into a legal/not discussion because I'm sure there is a ton here but...

Everything I read says its basically illegal to sell these multi game emulators etc. In one form or another. I know I'm not a business etc so I'm not likely to get in trouble but still it bothers me. Am I wrong? It just seems if I rebuild an original to exact spec but with a different monitor then it's basically the same as restoring one. Most of the restores have been rebuild with all new parts so I'm just working inside out. As it is I think I need to buy a used coin door to restore since nobody makes them anymore. There is no "copy" or emulation of the game. It is a legal original full paid copy of the actual software etc.

Am I way off base in my thinking?

[Slippyblade]

By the letter of copyright, if you are reproducing ANY of the IP without permission, this means marquees, bezels, game code, whatever, you are breaking the law.  Whether you make a profit or not.  American IP law is one of the biggest money grabs in history, and thanks to Disney copyright now can last effectively forever.  I think currently it is life of the creator + 75 years.  The catch is that the "creator" can be a corporation, and a corporation is effectively an immortal entity.

[JLS2016]

So are all these popular and apparent respected arcade shops selling these 60/1 (or original) full cabinet and games etc all seriously banking on the opinion that they won't get caught or the companies won't care? Or do they have some form of licensing or permission to sell these games?

[JDFan]

So are all these popular and apparent respected arcade shops selling these 60/1 (or original) full cabinet and games etc all seriously banking on the opinion that they won't get caught or the companies won't care? Or do they have some form of licensing or permission to sell these games?

They are being made in China where the laws are different or not enforced and the companies buying them just plead ignorance and so far none of the companies that actually own (and can prove they own) the license has bothered to try and sue because if they did sue that one company would just shut down and declare bankruptcy and reopen a few hours later under a new name with the same product. So it's just not worth trying to go after them since it would cost lots of $ to do so and they'd just be playing Whack - a - Mole. Pretty much the same as all the other counterfeit products sold on Amazon. 

[JLS2016]

Hmm... Well, that's assuming they so and don't go after them with felony charges right? I thought it was that form of offense...

Well, now I don't know what I wanna do I wanted to build a replica Ms Pac cocktail but I like to stay as legal as possible even if gray areas are highly unlikely to ever pan out into anything.

I know I would be "flipping" it but I'm really the most interested in the woodworking aspect and the fun assembling to try and reproduce a classic.

I could build the case and most hardware and then just sell that off without putting in the software and graphics I suppose. If nobody wants to buy the result then I could just turn it into my own private 60/1 just to toy with I guess?

[Titchgamer]

Everyone on here has broken copyright laws at some point in one way or another.

But its not worth chasing from a legal POV.

As JD said they would pursue companies if anyone as they are the ones making the dough yet that still is not worth the effort.

Lets face it the individual games on these boards are basically worthless. Yeah you could stick em on PSN for 99p or something but the days of them making any huge money has long gone along with any point of doing people for the copyright.

I think of it as I am preserving the oldens in the way they are supposed to be played for the next generation.

Get ya board, install it and enjoy it.
And in the extremely unlikely case you get caught plead ignorance.

[behrmr]

Building a new one from scratch is not the same as restoration.  Using an LCD monitor in place of an original CRT is not part of a restoration either.  There is zero chance that you will get in trouble for building one with reproduction graphics and a multi board.  Literally thousands of individuals and businesses are doing these all over the place.  95% of what people on this forum are doing for personal (and some for profit) are based on the concept of using ROMs in a bootleg manner.  You're overthinking it.

[paigeoliver]

You can't scratchbuild a Ms. Pac-Man cocktail and sell it on craiglist for a profit. You will lose money.

[Automark]

If you want to sell it to a non arcade collector, use a 60 in 1.
Normal ( ) people font want the hassle of pcb's that have to be repaired every few weeks/months/years, they just want to play the games from their youth for a couple of minutes per week.

[Automark]

You can't scratchbuild a Ms. Pac-Man cocktail and sell it on craiglist for a profit. You will lose money.

yeah but on ebay they are like $ 2500 to 3500.-  lol

[benarcade]

yeah but on ebay they are like $ 2500 to 3500.-  lol

I can buy a working one on Craigslist for $600. Needs to be cosmetically redone. Seems like a lot of work and money to build it using parts - why not rehab a beater?

Also, if you look at Sold listings, they're going for $1000 in good condition on eBay.

[paigeoliver]

I already have the most expensive piece (the top glass) sitting here and I am not going to build unless the control panels fall into my lap.

[JLS2016]

I bought my working one for $400 So far I've replaced the glass, clamps, fan, replaced the bulbs,  t-molding , and top graphics. I've just got the cpo graphic to do. It was a steal in my opinion and would have been "ok" as is but since it's only my second game I wanted it perfect.

The problem with restoring is that I really wanted to try my hand at woodworking etc. It's also a way to keep myself entertained while waiting for one I want to come available to restore. I'm not the most patient person and the hunt for games has been lame...lol.

yeah but on ebay they are like $ 2500 to 3500.-  lol

I can buy a working one on Craigslist for $600. Needs to be cosmetically redone. Seems like a lot of work and money to build it using parts - why not rehab a beater?

Also, if you look at Sold listings, they're going for $1000 in good condition on eBay.