Need some hardware (Joystick and buttons) suggestions

[eclipse0211]

Hi,
I'm building a MAME arcade cabinet and started buying all the hardware. I'm at a point where I need to order the controls. I'm totally confused on what joystick and buttons to buy and where to buy from. I would really appreciate if you could help point out some good quality controls and where to buy it from. I've looked at X-Arcade tank stick but felt it's a bit pricey ($170 shipped). I prefer the balltop joysticks. This would connect to my PC so I'd prefer it to be USB friendly.

Thanks a lot for your input.

[EvilNuff]

I would suggest using the search feature here and also looking at the wiki for joysticks.  There is no simple, easy way to answer your questions.

[thet0ast3r]

For joysticks, especially if you are on a budget, and have some weeks time to wait for the shipping, I personally like the joystick + 8 buttons + zero delay encoder set the most.
It is 14€ with shipping, so i guess somewhere around 16 usd, but you need to be careful from which seller you buy these from. (I buy from AliExpress, just look for the cheapest set with the best feedback)
Another pro about the cheap buttons is that you don't need to solder (basically just plug and play), and if you pick the right seller you can probably choose color of the buttons individually.

BUT: You have to consider that these sets are best when used with plates with a maximum thickness of around 5cm i believe.

I also got other buttons mounted on wooden surface, but they were more expensive (50 eur) and have seperate, removable microswitches.

thet0ast3r

EDIT: the 50 eur buttons are the exact ones from X arcade, ordered from america. I won't order from them again.

[BadMouth]

What you're asking is like asking what kind of vehicle you should buy without giving any details about what you want to use it for.

You say you're building a cabinet, but then mention the tankstick.
Are you comfortable building the control panel and wiring up individual switches to an interface?

Where to buy depends on where you're located.

groovygamegear is my first choice for classic style parts in the U.S.
Ultimarc is in the UK, but has super fast shipping to the U.S.
The owners of both those companies are active on this forum and stand behind their products.

For Japanese style parts, I shop at Focusattack.
They aren't very active on here, but every order has been a good experience.

EDIT: If you want it as cheap as possible while still having quality parts, get some $8-10 Happ Comps and $1.20-1.50 buttons.
Happs were standard on a lot of original stuff and there isn't much difference between cheap and expensive buttons (IMO).  The difference is in the switches, but again not a huge difference.

[eclipse0211]

Thanks a lot for your responses.
Although I mentioned I want something affordable but I don't want the cheapest either. Need something that's decent and won't break in a few months. I didn't realize that buying controls for a DIY arcade is like shopping for cars. Are there really that many choices? I would prefer something that's fit for games such as Street Fighter and Galaga.
I've looked at this -> https://www.amazon.com/Happ-Arcade-Control-Panel-Red/dp/B00GBC02U4
Not sure how good it is but as I mentioned, I prefer the balltop joysticks.

I'm comfortable wiring things up and building the entire cabinet including the control panel. I'm in US (midwest). Need the items within 2 weeks max. What are my choices?

[thet0ast3r]

I guess since you want to order from US, either pick happ (or happ style) joysticks +buttons from one of the sites mentioned above, or you could go with the X-arcade buttons and joysticks,
however, you could buy them from x-arcade directly, for 40 dollars, its probably cheaper, depending on the shipping fee.
http://shop.xgaming.com/collections/arcade-parts/products/arcade-bundle-2-joysticks-20-buttons
If you`re not into soldering, you should probably consider buying some sort of i-pac or dongle with wires and connectors, its much cleaner, and you can disassemble it easily.
(i made my first control panel with joypad hacks, 8 years ago, this was considered one of the cheapest methods)

Maybe one thing to the encoders, if you are using a pc/ raspberry pie, as long as the encoder presents itself as a joystick, (atleast I) think its ok to stick with the cheapest, because there is no input delay on neither of these devices. (as far as i know)

EDIT: just looked it up, shipping is included in the 40 dollar price for the x-arcade controls set.

thet0ast3r

[JDFan]

A bit more expensive than the cheap sets but since you mention preferring balltops rather than the Happ stick type - here is an ebay kit from bsa_gaming for $91 shipped that includes the 2 player Xin mo encoder - 2 Sanwa JLF-TP-8YT balltop joysticks and 16 Happ style buttons that you can choose colors etc. on.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Player-USB-mame-arcade-kit-includes-2-Sanwa-joysticks-16-Happ-buttons-/171068996535?hash=item27d481bbb7:g:Js4AAOxy~hdR02U0



THey also have a similar kit for $61 with the Happ Super joysticks and button sets ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Player-USB-mame-happ-arcade-parts-kit-includes-2-4-8-joysticks-16-buttons/171068993508?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38804%26meid%3D4442d32915b0465aabd09911df121ca8%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D171068996535 ) If you wanted cheaper but those aren't balltop.

I ordered the Happ super kit from them awhile back ( with a Jamma harness rather than the Xinmo encoder for $45 +/- ) and they were very good to work with and shipped very quickly with the colors etc. I asked for - they are a small family run business 

[eclipse0211]

JDFan,

Thanks a lot for the links. this is exactly what I was looking for. so any recommendations on what would be a good one to buy? I'd like to stay below $100 of course. I see the Sanwa set is $91 and the Happ is $61. Is it worth the extra? How about the USB interface? please share your experience.

[eclipse0211]

I just came across this site http://www.ultimarc.com/

Looks like they have a lotta stuff but no bundle. How does the iPac compare to the one that's sold on ebay with the bundle?
They have some Sanwa joysticks for $22 each. The Sanwa one that's listed on ebay, is that 8 way or four?

[JDFan]

JDFan,

Thanks a lot for the links. this is exactly what I was looking for. so any recommendations on what would be a good one to buy? I'd like to stay below $100 of course. I see the Sanwa set is $91 and the Happ is $61. Is it worth the extra? How about the USB interface? please share your experience.

Depends on what you are looking for - figure the Happ Supers that are in the cheaper kit are cheaper joysticks so most of the difference in price is due to that ( the Sanwas are about $25 a piece where the supers run about $10 so there is the $30 difference) - since you were wanting the balltop and not battop sticks I'd think the $30 was worth it for you ( the Sanwas are high quality balltops and worth the extra cost over some of the cheaper balltops IMHO)

How does the iPac compare to the one that's sold on ebay with the bundle?
They have some Sanwa joysticks for $22 each. The Sanwa one that's listed on ebay, is that 8 way or four?
 

THe main difference in the IPac vs. the Xinmo is the iPac is a keyboard emulator - so button presses send keyboard codes where the Xinmo is a Gamepad emulator - either one works well but there are a few emulators/games that require a bit of extra setup or software program (ie. JoytoKey - to translate joystick codes to key presses) so which you want will depend on what programs you intend to use ( MAME can use either easily so really makes no difference for it.)

THe Sanwa's and Happ Supers can be set as either 4 way or 8 way (the Sanwa's include a restrictor plate that can be set to either and the supers have a reversible piece on the stick that can be turned over to switch from 4 to 8 way.) 

[keilmillerjr]

You could use a jpac with a pre-made jamma harness. That option will enable you to have options. More info on your intentions is really needed.

[eclipse0211]

More info coming, the more I get confused. Seems like I'm a complete noob when it comes to this. All I wanted was to build a MAME arcade for my son. I didn't even know what MAME stands for until a week ago. Given my lack of knowledge, what would be a foolproof kit for me. So far, with the limited research I've done, I initially wanted to run a Raspberry pi (retropie) to run the games but it didn't work very well with the original pi I had (lag). So I'm thinking of using a spare PC that I have and build a controller kit and plug it in via USB.

As I said earlier, I can solder I have to and have some basic electronic skills but I'm looking for a controller kit that is robust to play a wide range of games. What are my choices? Also, are these compatible with PS3 or X-Box?

Thanks a lot for your time and valuable input.

[PL1]

More info coming, the more I get confused. Seems like I'm a complete noob when it comes to this. All I wanted was to build a MAME arcade for my son. I didn't even know what MAME stands for until a week ago. Given my lack of knowledge, what would be a foolproof kit for me.

Don't get too hung up on finding a kit -- find an encoder/wiring harness, joystick and buttons that will work well for the games you want to play.

For example, the best joystick for Pac-Man isn't the best joystick for Mortal Kombat.

Also, some newer PC games require a gamepad encoder IIRC.

Without knowing some specific examples of which games you want to play, it is impossible to provide good advice on what encoder and controls would work well for you.

The BYOAC FAQ should help you get a handle on the basic aspects of the hobby and what questions you may want to ask.

Unfortunately the wiki is still down from the server migration, but the Internet Wayback Machine has a recent copy of the FAQ.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160809113045/http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=FAQ

You may find the design process described in the "2.1 What type of build meets my needs?" section to be especially useful.   

If you are having trouble figuring out what to do, you may want to consider building a simple testbed USB fightstick to try different sticks and buttons with different games before you select the right controls for a full cab.


Scott

[keilmillerjr]

More info coming, the more I get confused. Seems like I'm a complete noob when it comes to this. All I wanted was to build a MAME arcade for my son. I didn't even know what MAME stands for until a week ago. Given my lack of knowledge, what would be a foolproof kit for me. So far, with the limited research I've done, I initially wanted to run a Raspberry pi (retropie) to run the games but it didn't work very well with the original pi I had (lag). So I'm thinking of using a spare PC that I have and build a controller kit and plug it in via USB.

As I said earlier, I can solder I have to and have some basic electronic skills but I'm looking for a controller kit that is robust to play a wide range of games. What are my choices? Also, are these compatible with PS3 or X-Box?

Thanks a lot for your time and valuable input.

Hmm... if you want some thing compatible with newer consoles, why not start with an arcade stick game pad - like the neo geo aes had. Paradise arcade sells encoders that are compatible with newer consoles. Foe hammer sells really cool kits. It's not an arcade machine, but seems more like maybe what you want. You could still run a pi, and can run it 15khz to a crt tv! I'd just get a pi3. So much better unit than an original pi.

[BadMouth]

The problem is that we are too deep in this hobby to give you a simple answer. 

The x-arcade 2 player kit (currently $70) purchased directly from them is probably the best choice for an all in one kit for a noob.
http://shop.xgaming.com/collections/arcade-parts/products/two-player-complete-do-it-yourself-arcade-kit
Nothing is spectacular about it, but nothing is bad either.  If you have any problems, you can contact them for support.

What I really recommend, but is more complicated and more expensive:

For the wiring, get a generic JAMMA harness off ebay and hack the big connector end off of it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAMMA-Wiring-Harness-with-Wire-Id-Label-Arcade-Video-Game-Multicade-/121753778577?hash=item1c59173991:g:4FQAAOSwwE5WXggF

For balltop joysticks, I recommend either the Omni switchable 4/8 way (if you're going to be able to flip up the control panel to switch it) or the cheap Zippy with the more expensive Hand Candy balltop option.
After using standard issue balltops (with seams) and the hand candy which are perfectly smooth, I will never go back.
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65
Alternatively, the J-Stick from Ultimarc is pretty much the same stick as the Omni without the little handle modification.  You can keep the bolts on the bottom of it loose and switch from 4 to 8-way also.
http://www.ultimarc.com/store/section.php?xSec=6
They are both Sanwa JLW sticks which are good all-around sticks.  The more popular Sanwa JLF has a super light spring that I describe as "dainty".  It barely has any resistance when you push it which is drastically different from what I grew up with.  Of course your son probably has no such expectations. 
To the casual player who is going to play Pacman for a few minutes and then switch to a different one, the 4-way games in MAME will play fine with an 8-way stick. 
The 4/8 way switching thing is more for people who are really into the original games and want it to "feel right". 
It does make a difference in how well the game plays though.  On certain games you seem to have better control over the character with a 4-way stick (pacman doesn't miss the turn you meant to take, Mario seems to exit ladders easier, burger time is still a ---smurfette---).

For the interface I recommend an I-pac 2 (which shows up as a keyboard) from ultimarc if you're going the pi route. 
I haven't messed with a pi, but have read that there is an issue with MAME for pi only recognizing 16 inputs from the GPWiz. 
Perhaps someone who has used one with a Pi can comment.
If you go the PC route and order from GGG, then get the GPWiz which will show up as gamepads.
Personally I prefer keyboard encoders because they are compatible with every oddball old emulator, but some combinations of the MAME default keyboard keys can trigger windows hot keys or desktop rotation.
The first thing I do is change those keys on the encoder and remap MAME, but for you an interface that shows up as a gamepad will mean you don't have to deal with any of that.

For buttons I recommend the cheapest concave ones from whatever vendor you order from.
Order a button wrench with them.


EDIT: attached pic of stuff from GGG.  There is an option to add a wiring to the GPWiz for $19, but I'd still go the ebay JAMMA harness route because I like different colored wires.
green buttons are for coin.  you may want white or something else.  You may want P1 side red and P2 side blue. 

DOUBLE EDIT:  Forgot the button wrench in the cart below.....don't forget the button wrench! 

[eclipse0211]

BadMouth,
That was a very educational post.. While I digest all the info, I came across this yesterday. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arcade-Sanwa-Control-Panel-LED-Illuminated-Kit-2-Joysticks-20-Buttons-USB-MAME-/331626730684?fromMakeTrack=true

Also, when you say hack the big JAMMA connector.. what am I changing it to? some doc would be helpful.

[BadMouth]

Also, when you say hack the big JAMMA connector.. what am I changing it to? some doc would be helpful.

Cut the big plastic connector off the end and throw it away.
Then use the wires from it.
They already have proper terminals for the buttons and joysticks crimped on the other end.
It's cheaper/easier/faster than cutting and crimping your own wires.

You'll still have to strip the other end, insert it into the GPWiz, and then screw down the screw terminal.
Not quite plug and play, but pretty damn simple.

[BadMouth]

BadMouth,
That was a very educational post.. While I digest all the info, I came across this yesterday. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arcade-Sanwa-Control-Panel-LED-Illuminated-Kit-2-Joysticks-20-Buttons-USB-MAME-/331626730684?fromMakeTrack=true

Those buttons are horrible in my opinion.
They are convex and the bezel around them is too tall which makes them sit too far above the control panel IMO.
They work good for the Start button on driving game cabs, but I wouldn't want them to be my main action buttons.

The joysticks appear to be the Sanwa JLFs that I mentioned had a light touch.
They are good joysticks, they just feel odd to someone who grew up with 80's & 90's arcade machines.
I have them in my cab, but I've done a ton of modifications to them including a stiffer spring.
The stock switches in them click a good bit louder than any other joystick I've used.

[pbj]

Just get an X-Arcade and be done with it.

[Slippyblade]

Not changing it to anything.  He just means cutting off the big connector and using the wires.  That way it already has all the quick disconnects on the wires, and you have plenty of wire to do the job.  You'd attach the QDs to the buttons and sticks, and the other ends, you'd strip and stick into the screw downs on the encoder.

[eclipse0211]

The usb interface seems a bit pricey. so the difference between GP-Wiz40 ECO and the other is just the screw strip for quick connect?

btw, GGG site is down for maintenance. I may have to just go with a tankstick :/ or this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/171068996535?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
How are the buttons on this and the USB interface? Can anyone comment on it please?

Thanks a lot.

[BadMouth]

The usb interface seems a bit pricey. so the difference between GP-Wiz40 ECO and the other is just the screw strip for quick connect?

btw, GGG site is down for maintenance. I may have to just go with a tankstick :/ or this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/171068996535?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
How are the buttons on this and the USB interface? Can anyone comment on it please?

Thanks a lot.

Just get an X-Arcade and be done with it.

[thet0ast3r]

I mean, what should I say, the cheapest usb interface are 2 zero delay encoders for about max. 20 bucks, but you`ll probably have to solder the wires, as they only have 4 5mm connectors with them, 8 3mm connectors and 1 sanwa joystick connector.
I wouldn`t spend much more than 30 bucks on an usb interface, unless it`s like a 90 button thing or something.

thet0ast3r

[keilmillerjr]

Also, when you say hack the big JAMMA connector.. what am I changing it to? some doc would be helpful.

Cut the big plastic connector off the end and throw it away.
Then use the wires from it.
They already have proper terminals for the buttons and joysticks crimped on the other end.
It's cheaper/easier/faster than cutting and crimping your own wires.

You'll still have to strip the other end, insert it into the GPWiz, and then screw down the screw terminal.
Not quite plug and play, but pretty damn simple.

Or you could get the jpac and juSt plug it in. 

[JDFan]

For what you are doing (building a Mame system for your kids - that did not grow up in arcades and have no prior expectations of how the hardware is designed !) What I would suggest is just buy an affordable  kit that you think looks like it would work ( ie. has the type of buttons and joysticks you want ) - buy it and set things up.

The more you think about things and ask questions on the web - the more suggestions on what to get you are going to get - some good, some not so good, and some completely useless for your situation - and the more questions you are going to have. Until you have some hardware set up and tested you will not know what things about a specific setup you do or do not like and what you personally are looking for ( ie. do you really want those fancy lights flashing all over the control panel - do you need to be able to have 4 people playing at one time - do you need that spinner (trackball, flight stick,etc. etc.) for a certain game or not - does a straight line button setup feel best or do you like more of a curved layout - do you need flat or concave buttons - and on and on and on. And the thing is every person will have a different view of what is best and what is absolutely needed and will answer your question accordingly.

At some point you need to just buy something and build it (hopefully not spending too much on the first attempt and finding out cheaper would have been just as good) - then set things up and enjoy it for awhile, all the time gaining information on what you like and what you don't - and then when you're ready you can either rebuild the control panel to change the things you absolutely need or you can build a second machine that includes the changes you think you want with more knowledge of what you want.

For a first build for the kids pretty much any setup you wind up with will be fine and will get played so don't overthink everything and wind up never starting the build - anything can be changed as things progress if you find you really can't stand a certain aspect and the knowledge learned outweighs any loss of $ invested in something you wind up changing. ( only way you'll know you need a better joystick or those lighted buttons is if you use ones you don't like at some point !!) and really any kit that is being sold is useable in MAME- just a few things change depending on what specific hardware you are using and whether you like or dislike a certain kit will depend on what you are expecting or used to using.

[yotsuya]

I mean, what should I say, the cheapest usb interface are 2 zero delay encoders for about max. 20 bucks, but you`ll probably have to solder the wires, as they only have 4 5mm connectors with them, 8 3mm connectors and 1 sanwa joystick connector.
I wouldn`t spend much more than 30 bucks on an usb interface, unless it`s like a 90 button thing or something.

thet0ast3r

See, I'm going to disagree. I know going cheap is something people strive for, but I don't use anything less than an ipac or jpac for my projects. These emulation programs are written to interface with keyboard commands, so why would I do it any differently? I really don't want to run a 3rd party program to convert joystick movements to keystrokes. Yeah, you can go cheaper, but you get what you pay for. Why would I compromise to save $15-25 bucks?

And yeah, I know someone's going to pop in and say they paid 15 bucks for a Zero Delay and works perfectly. I get that, but I'm just saying based on my own experience, and I've tried them all, the only other thing I use besides what I've mentioned would be a KADE. And even at that, the Minimus is hard to find anymore.

[JDFan]

I mean, what should I say, the cheapest usb interface are 2 zero delay encoders for about max. 20 bucks, but you`ll probably have to solder the wires, as they only have 4 5mm connectors with them, 8 3mm connectors and 1 sanwa joystick connector.
I wouldn`t spend much more than 30 bucks on an usb interface, unless it`s like a 90 button thing or something.

thet0ast3r

See, I'm going to disagree. I know going cheap is something people strive for, but I don't use anything less than an ipac or jpac for my projects. These emulation programs are written to interface with keyboard commands, so why would I do it any differently? I really don't want to run a 3rd party program to convert joystick movements to keystrokes. Yeah, you can go cheaper, but you get what you pay for. Why would I compromise to save $15-25 bucks?

And yeah, I know someone's going to pop in and say they paid 15 bucks for a Zero Delay and works perfectly. I get that, but I'm just saying based on my own experience, and I've tried them all, the only other thing I use besides what I've mentioned would be a KADE. And even at that, the Minimus is hard to find anymore.

Exactly my point -- everyone is going to have a different opinion of each product and where it falls in their list of must haves for a build and the only way to truly know is to experiment with different parts as you go and find out which you personally prefer or would not use in specific builds ( ie. even the cheap xx in 1 knock offs have a place they can fill ) Only real way to find out is to place an order and build it and play some games !

[pbj]

Just get an X-Arcade and be done with it.

[yotsuya]

I'm going to have to agree with PBJ at this point. If you're just building something for your kid, go with the X-Arcade to start. In the meantime, pick up some parts, keep doing your research, and find out what works best for you.

There's lots of places in this hobby to save money. I personally don't think the encoder is one of them. When I build projects for myself or for family and friends, I only use a ipacs because I know they're pretty much going to work right out of the box.

[8BitMonk]

Be sure to check out the slagcoin site, it has the type of comparative info you're looking for and is a great resource.

http://slagcoin.com/joystick/attributes_brands.html

There are also various button layout templates and info on building your own panel.

http://slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html

[eclipse0211]

Thanks for all the valuable input. Learnt a lot. I just placed an order for a X-Arcade tankstick. The only reason I didn't like that was because of the bat top joystick. I grew up playing in the balltop and wanted the same but considering the cost and all the labor that will go in it, not to mention the time, x arcade was a safe choice.

Thanks again. now I can move past this phase of the project and focus on my cabinet build as well as MAME emulator discussion. As I mentioned before, I plan to use a PC. any resources for me to study while the controller gets here?

Thanks again.

[thet0ast3r]

Well, if you are building a complete cabinet, look at other threads, how-to`s, youtube videos/slideshows on how they did it.
It should be well prepared & planned, as you have to fit the x-arcade tankstick inside the cabinet.
Setting up the pc, getting stuff together (speakers, lights, marquee(s)...) simply everything you are going to need to run the cab.